Possible New Bill!!!

[jamaro]

Okay Guys... PLEASE VOTE BE VOCAL... We have a shot here... LOOK AND VOTE.. SPREAD THE WORD...

http://newmexicoindependent.com/64571/new-mexico-state-senator-george-munoz-hunting-licenses

http://newmexicohuntingsurvey.com/

Jason

 

[joesikora]

Hi Jason, is it re-election time in your neck of the woods as here in IL?

I heard from someone in the know that the residents are indeed getting more then their alloted 78 percent in the draw.Although the NR are buying more of the LO tags bringing the ratio to 51% NR hunters to 49% Residents(or something close to those numbers).

Have you heard this?

How can we find out for sure?

I'm going to call G&F ask them.

Thanks for your time.

Joe
P.S. I'm sure you know how I voted.LOL

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"


-Joe E Sikora

 

[nmtaxi]

I don't want to see NR cut out of the mix, but I hate the 12% cut for guides. I would like to see a flat 15% for NR, as opposed to the 10-12 split.

 

[Droptine45]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-10 AT 11:54AM (MST)[p] PLEASE DON'T VOTE IF YOU ARE NOT A RESIDENT!! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF I VOTED FOR CHANGES IN YOUR HUNTING REGULATIONS IN IL?
TRY THIS GO TO HUNT DRAW ODDS PUT IN, DEER 2B RIFLE AS A RESIDENT THEN PUT IT IN AS A NON RESIDENT GUIDED. WOW KINDA CRAZY 59% TRY UNIT 16 NEXT. IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO HIRE A GUIDE THEN YOU CAN HUNT EVERY YEAR. HOW AM I EVER GOING TO GET MY KIDS INTO HUNTING IF WE CAN NEVER DRAW A TAG?? AND YES RANCHER GET UNIT WIDE TAGS!! WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU GIVE 400 ACRES OF LAND A TAG WHERE THEY CAN HUNT ON THERE PRIVATE LAND PLUS ANY PUBLIC LAND IN THAT UNIT. SO WHAT THE RANCHER WHO WANTS MORE UNIT WIDE TAGS SAYS, IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME MORE TAGS I WILL START DROPPING EVERY ELK,PRONGHORN,DEER THEY SEE. BY LAW THE LAND OWNER HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL ANY ANIMAL ON HIS PROPERTY, ALL HE HAS TO DO IS CALL GAME & FISH AND REPORT IT.

 

[philthy]

Just voted. I like the way this guy thinks and I wish him best of luck! He's probably gonna need it, unfortunately.

 

[Phantom Hunter]

Cutting out unit-tags is the way to help the residents. Ending the subsidy to guides and ranchers who don't hunt their property would allow more tags to be available to residents. Shutting out non-residents will only hurt NM in the long haul. Currently not very good odds for Non-Guided, Non-Residents either.

Phantom Hunter

 

[philthy]

Bored at work, so I decided to look over the e-plus list that was published last month. Some woman in unit 34 owns SEVEN acres and was awarded 3 ES tags. Almost wish I wouldn't have looked now.

 

[canyonwell]

Lots of changes proposed in New Mexicos game management... Be carefull to look between the lines at what it is really going to mean.

There will be no more opportunity to hunt on our ranch for any hunter, resident or not. The fish and game wants to give us a token tag if we open up our gates to let the public hunt. They don't want to control the amount of hunters that come in and we have no control over who hunts and who doesn't. Therefor there will be no hunting. Neighboring ranchers have all taken the same stance. So. While draw odds will increase for residents there will be no place to hunt.

I am all for hunters to have more opportunity and I am all for do it yourself hunts that are more affordable. But, tell a rancher that he has no control over his own ranch and he will lock the whole thing up in a hurry.

I guess our place will turn into a 30k acre antelope sanctuary..

Regards, Steve

 

[jamaro]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-10 AT 04:50PM (MST)[p]Steve...
Like I said at the commission meeting... With the odds of drawing a tag every 22 years. I am ALREADY locked out... We have nothing to loose...

and guess what right now you don't have any control who hunts your land... If I get a tag for your ranch I hunt it... THERE IS NO LEGAL WAY you can keep me off it... BUT if tags are not tied to a ranch then you control who you grant access to.... IMO that would be a much better deal for the rancher... he can still charge trespass fees..

The reason that the ranches are taking the same stance is because they have become used to the system and they are making money off of public animals but if if the system changes believe me free market principles will take hold...

J

 

[joesikora]

Hi Droptine45,first off its a poll not a vote and a poll is just an opinion.Second are you related to Richard?

Hi Jason,you never answered my question.When you met with The Game Commission you had to of had facts to back up your claims/protest.What were your findings on the EXACT Residents % and NR % in the draws and I'm not just talking about the 2b late rifle deer and the 16 elk hunts.But the entire draw.Please let me know I'm curious as I'm sure everyone else is too.
I'm sure you wouldn't have gone to a meeting that important without your proof.

Anyway back to the subject.You know this is a very touchy subject,but let me raise some questions.Alot of the units hunted are National Forest correct?
So this is Federal Land owned and operated with US taxpayers money right?

Is the big problem for some Residents is not being able to hunt 2b late rifle deer and 16 elk hunts every few years?Join the club.Ask the guys in Utah,Colo,AZ,you'll heard the same thing.

I've applied for 2b late rifle deer and the other hard to draw units for deer,2c,etc.Reason being I don't care if I draw one but if I do.Cool.I already killed a 190 5/8" muley on a 2b muzzle hunt(hunt has good odds)and don't think I'll ever top that.

I've never tried for 16 elk before and I don't ever plan on it. Odds to bad.NM has so many great units to hunt,with good odds why not hunt some of those? Thats what I've done and have hunted 4 years in a row.I know LUCK was the big factor here.
I'd rather be lucky than good.

I think sometimes people don't see how good the draw system is in NM,its the best around.

Just something to ponder and please don't tear my head off for the questions I brought up!
There are just that,Questions.

Thanks Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"

-Joe E Sikora

 

[jamaro]

The exact numbers by law are 78-22 UNLESS there are leftover tags then those tags go back into a general pool.... ANYBODY can buy those tags... What I suspect you are seeing is that residents just want to hunt and are willing to hunt is a marginal unit just to have a hunt... I suspect that NR aren't willing to hunt in some goofy unit like 22 for Elk...

That being said... In some units along the AZ border NR are getting more than the 22%.

BTW those are only for Elk,Deer, and Antelope... For animals like Ibex or Sheep there isn't a NR Quota... In the past NR often get just as many or MORE tags than residents...

AND I don't think that includes the Youth Opportunity hunts...Those are first come first serve..

 

[Gator]

Steve
they think that because you have antelope they can hunt and you can't say crap about it. LOL Look what 3 years of closed gates will bring HUGE bucks I'm think. Then the price will just sky rocket for those HUGE bucks..


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[joesikora]

Thanks Jason,always good hearing your insight.

As you said the NR using guides are going to want to hunt the Gila(mainly by recommendations from their outfitters),but not all.
For alot of the NR's this is a once in a lifetime hunt.

As for me I'm greedy.I want to hunt your great state every year.
As a side note I hope to have my wife Kristie with me next time.She's a good wing shooter,but she says she doesn't want to kill a deer,elk because their beautiful and they have faces.(?)

When I asked her,what about all the birds you've killed? Her reply was "ducks,geese,dove,phesant,etc,are dumb".LOL

Vinnihunt told me he likes to hunt all over the state,to see new country and meet new people not just the throphy units.I also think he's just as happy with a cow tag as a bull tag.I think he has the right idea.
For him it's about spending time with his family and friends.

I'd like to meet up Vinni and some of you other guys in the woods someday.I'm sure I can learn alot from you all.

Anyway great post.Lets keep it going.

Thanks for listening,and not "tearing my head off" as I said in my last post.

Your Amigo.

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"

-Joe E Sikora

 

[Droptine45]

Joe, I understand its just a poll but, I think they are looking for residents opinions. I had said look at 16 rifle for deer not elk. 16d is a very low success rate for deer. But i still cant draw? I don't have any problem with non residents hunting in our state. Lets just make it a fair system.
Who is Richard?

 

[joesikora]

Hi Droptine45;Good to hear from you again.As I said it's a hot subject like religion or politics everyone has good points,and whatever happens someone will be unhappy.

Richard Bacca aka TrapKing.




"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"

-Joe E Sikora

 

[canyonwell]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-10 AT 04:10PM (MST)[p]Jason,

How could you draw a tag for my ranch? I am given x number of tags each year depending on how many antelope are seen on the ranch during the arial survey. I get ranch only tags. There are no other tags for our ranch anywhere.. Therefor we have TOTAL control of who hunts our ranch just as you should have total control of who goes in your backyard.

Under the new proposal the game and fish wants to give us one tag if we will open our gates to the public. Our ranch would be then listed as a public hunting area for anybody with a valid antelope tag.

That way we can take our one little tag and hunt with the general public on our own place.. Never mind the fact that the land, fences, drinkers, roads, etc are all bought and paid for and maintained exclusivly buy us.

Not gonna happen here. All I am saying is that there will be a lot of ranches that will close the gates and not participate in any hunting program at all. Which will effectivly reduce the amount of land that can be hunted and provide sanctuary for pressured game. Like Gator said.. We will have some huge bucks in a few years.

Ranches with public land will still have to allow public land within thier ranches to be hunted by the public. (Which I support.. It is PUBLIC land)

Regards, Steve

 

[jamaro]

Steve...
Not quite... The aerial surveys have NOTHING to do with the number of tags you get.... Right now there are no standards for tag allocation, it is up to the biologist, politics and the good old boy system. Seriously, that is what started this entire mess..... You need to research this...

All rifle tags are RO... You should know this... hmmm.... Also, if you are getting tags but you are not allowing public access then this is a direct violation of the state constitutions anti-donation clause... This is the law that basically says that the state can't give away any public resources..ie tags... This is law that gives the public a chance of suing and winning.... What ranch to you run again? You may serve as a perfect example of state donations.

The way the law is written it says that a tag maybe be given to a ranch in exchange for public access... G & F bowed to pressure by giving ranchers more than ONE TRANSFERABLE TAG... You can opt out of the program and charge trespass fees if you want.

Okay... So you maintain all of those items... I get it... I understand that it costs money... I was a ranch hand at one time... BUT you are maintaining those items for your private cattle... if it wasn't for the cattle you could care less about the public antelope. Antelope cause minimal damage compared to cattle... and you know it... and don't kid yourself, the average taxpayer is helping support ranchers thru tax breaks and government subsidies.

Again... The gates are already closed... and people are getting wise to all this fear-mongering by ranchers... Look across the west... Trespass fees are the norm NOT transferable tags...

Yes... Leased land is public land... AND RANCHERS need to remember that... I have had several ranchers try to run me off state land before... and RANCHERS shouldn't be given tags for this leased land... and guess what? the way the current system works ranchers are getting tags for those....

 

[canyonwell]

I have a call into the game and fish and I will fill you in on the facts of ariel surveys that happen in March of every year in Unit 40 to depict how many tags each ranch are going to get.

Whenever someone decides to tell me what we are going to do or not do on our own place the hair starts to stand up on the back of my neck. We paid for it, not the public. We have no government subsudies. We are not welfare cases that are waiting around for a government check. We do not have so much as one square inch of leased or government land.


What does RO mean? You said all rifle tags are RO. Is it resident only? Or ranch only?

Either way you are dead wrong. I broke out our applications and we can get ranch only or unit wide tags. If we opt for unit wide tags we must allow public access to our entire ranch.

If we opt for the ranch only tags then we have to let hunters designated to our ranch hunt our ranch only. There are only x amount of tags handed out for our ranch and we get every one of them due to our lack of leased land. In the event that we had leased land say 80% deeded and 20% leased then 80 % of the tags would be ours and 20% would go to the draw and we would have to allow them access to the ranch.

I'll write more when I hear back from the game and fish.



Steve

 

[earthman]

Looks like Mr Munoz is having some Obamavision problems. Sure that sounds great...take care of "our people"...spread the tags to all the residents...BUT...who the *$&% is going to pay for it????? Those monster 330 bulls aren't sh#ting out $770 dollar bills all over the place are they? Just ask CO residents...we would just love to slam the door on all the non-res and keep all these 220 bulls to our selves, but that doesn't keep the DOW in the black....the $500 non res tags do so we don't spend time crunching numbers of wether its better for 12% or 44% of the tags to be res or non res...we just give EVERYONE the opportunity. NOW...is that better or worse??? It's the same argument we always have here in CO...you have to ask yourself...Do you want to hunt for a 200" raghorn every year? or Have the oportunity to chase a "stinky" 330 every 2 or 3 years?

It's all part of the experience Clarke!!!

 

[canyonwell]

Okay, I got the facts and they are just as I suspected.

Arial surveys are the main way they decide how antelope tags are given out. Other factors are: Range condition, size of bucks being taken and buck to doe ratio.

There are absolutly zero public tags available for any private ranch given in the state of New Mexico without the rancher involving himself in a public hunting program.

The tags given to a private ranch can be sold or given away but they must be used on that ranch only.

In the event that a ranch is part leased land the tags will be given out based on ratio of public to private land.

That is the rule so far.

We will find out what changes in the game commission meeting on Oct 28 in ruidoso nm. They are proposing several changes and they will vote on them there..


Steve

 

[JFWRC]

Jamaro-Were you around 13 years ago when the legislation was passed? At that point, folks liked the bill. It was a win win for all. You may not remember what applying was like back then but NR's got 50+% in the so called "best" units. Like I have said before, this proposal will put allot of NM guides who are struggling to make it work fiancially out of part time jobs that help them make keep things going. All for a measly 1-2% odds increase. Pretty selfish if you ask me.

 

[canyonwell]

seems we have a typical case of an obama lovin socialist that can't handle it when faced with facts. HMMMMMMMMM


What's the matter Jamaro, I did my research just like you told me to.. Maybe you should do yours.

Steve

 

[jamaro]

>Arial surveys are the main way
>they decide how antelope tags
>are given out. Other factors
>are: Range condition, size of
>bucks being taken and buck
>to doe ratio.

Who did you talk with? Pat Mathis has said in several meeting that there is no FORMAL way of managing Antelope...Sure they want to make you think there is but there isn't... I want to know the name of the game and fish officer... He is lying and needs to stop spreading rumors.. THERE ARE NO FORMAL RULES...

>
>There are absolutly zero public tags
>available for any private ranch
>given in the state of
>New Mexico without the rancher
>involving himself in a public
>hunting program.

That is what I said... If you opt out of the program you shouldn't get any tags.. If you are then this is direct violation of the anti-donation clause...

 

[jamaro]

>Jamaro-Were you around 13 years ago
>when the legislation was passed?
>At that point, folks liked
>the bill. It was a
>win win for all. You
>may not remember what applying
>was like back then but
>NR's got 50+% in the
>so called "best" units. Like
>I have said before, this
>proposal will put allot of
>NM guides who are struggling
>to make it work fiancially
>out of part time jobs
>that help them make keep
>things going. All for a
>measly 1-2% odds increase. Pretty
>selfish if you ask me.
>

Yes, I was and we both know that the state settled because USO and George Taulman were threatening a lawsuit... the state caved in... At the time it could have been a lot worse... The same thing happened in AZ but the residents stood up and had the law changed...

And remember this was all passed by Gov. Johnson... A Rep...

Let's be honest guides CAN"T make a living off of the wages that outfitters are giving them... They can't... This is supplemental income for them... Yes, I used to guide... If they are going to be "struggling" maybe they can go on official welfare and residents can get their tags... Sounds like you want some form of socialism...

 

[jamaro]

>seems we have a typical case
>of an obama lovin socialist
>that can't handle it when
>faced with facts. HMMMMMMMMM
>
>
>What's the matter Jamaro, I did
>my research just like you
>told me to.. Maybe you
>should do yours.
>
>Steve


Nice name calling... real classy... Again.. there is NO RULE... Show it to me!!!! You are being lied to by whomever you talked to... Who did you talk to??? There are no Buckoe Ratios, No Quality Goals.. NOTHING.. If you have been paying attention the fact that the Antelope Mangers don't have ANY guidelines started this ENTIRE mess.

Again Pat Mathis, the Souths Antelope Manager, has said in several meeting that there are no guidelines from him to deny or approve the allocation of tags... He has said is is all about politics and how much a rancher whines...

I am willing to talk with whomever you talked to.. Give me a name...

 

[JFWRC]

Jamaro-

With all due respect, George had nothing to do with the current Law. He was not even at the roundhouse when it was all going down. I was there and don't remember you. Ken Swam, John Boretsky, legislators, and even Oscar were there to make it happen.

I will give you names of our guides and you can call them and ask losing the income will affect them. I think you will hear something totally opposite of what you state.

 

[canyonwell]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-10 AT 07:57AM (MST)[p]Julie Cummins is who I talked to... I guess your going to tell me she is full of crap too..

I agree that the name calling was a little childish but I needed to do something to bring you back out from under your rock.. And it worked.... And it's probably true..

It shows true arrogance for a jackass like you to take crap that you pulled out of thin air and try to push it on people as fact just to say that you have the right to hunt anywhere you want anytime you want...

Why don't you just go to the game and fish meeting on the 28th so you can get real facts to base your opinion on.. But I'm sure you won't. I'll be there.



The scary thing about you is that you sounded believable enought that I actually had to go to make sure I had my facts right.. You are a real piece of work..


Steve

 

[JFWRC]

Jamaro-

Amazing....you say I want socialism...look at your statement that they (guides) should go on welfare. These guys work there butts off and they get a good wage from us and they like what they do. Can't wait for them to see your comments.

 

[Ropinfool]

""I will give you names of our guides and you can call them and ask losing the income will affect them.""

that's a necessary loss.

 

[505]

Jason, you crack me up. Funny how the NMWF is fund raising right now, I guess your elite volunteer status with NMWF has you delegated to the internet boards.

You know, if you guys would pick your battles better and align yourselves with sportsman from all walks of life (outfitters, guides and landowners are sportsman too) you could get a lot more done.

Antelope LO tags and the NR split is the wrong battle. You're outgunned. But, I guess if you're just a patsy working towards the NMWF agenda, then you're doing exactly what they expect from you.

If you went after putting the quota on Oryx, Bighorns and Ibex you would gain a lot more respect among sportsman. Do something that makes a difference, you have been spoon fed the NMWF propaganda so long you believe it.

Has NMWF done a feasibility study on what a resident license will cost if you get your way? If so I would love to see it. Lose 10 or 12% of NR tags and watch the blue collar resident family hunters stop applying, and game and fish revenue drop. Think they're underfunded now? I thought NMWF was for youth opportunity? How is a youth hunter going to get involved in the sport if Dad can't afford the tags?

You and NMWF have drawn the line in the sand, alienating non residents, outfitters and landowners with blatant disrespect in regards to your actions and words.

Frankly, if I were a member of NMWF (which I most certainly am not), I would be embarrassed by your behavior and how you carry on.

 

[canyonwell]

Where did Jamaro go??

 

[tega52]

Im a licensed NM guide and Im here to tell you that this new bill would be plain out ridiculous! I told Senator Munoz this myself last week. This impact it would have does not only stop with guides losing their part time jobs (as it is in my case). What about the Gas stations, restaurants, motels, and so on that rely on this income from out of state hunters every year???

Jim, I appreciate all the facts that you bring to the table.

I also dont draw a tag every year, but I apply for the Gila so thats what I expect. If you REALLY want to increase your odds or you need the meat dont apply for the Gila, there are several other units with better odds.

 

[mailman]

To make this all fair just do what Colorado , Wyoming and Montana do. New mexico is no different. The residents are happy the LO are happy and the outfitters and guides are working in these states.This will end all this BS corruption.

 

[huntelk8863]

Yea, why dont you just make it like Colorado. Every Tom, ##### and Harry can buy or draw a licence. For the most part landowners just shoot the animals on their property themselves and the outfitting business sucks. Imagine, the outfitter trying to make anykind of living when there is no protection. Thats ok, jobs are everywhere. Oh wait, this is what you want. Very few or no NR tags which would be great, then you all could pay more for licences than the NR do now. Think about that. Secondly, seems like you dont want any landowner tags, wow, how many animals do you think the landowners will kill--trust me it will be a bunch. If it was me I might think about every one on my property and just try and stop me. Lastly, fu@% the outfitters, they dont deserve to make a living and the guides that work for them are nobodies. Good luck fellas, hope you get what you want and have to deal with the consquences. You guys crack me up.

 

[jamaro]

Now I am a jackass?? Did I read that right??? Real nice.... I have attached the Antelope Management Doc...
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/recreation/hunting/documents/A-PLUSInformationPolicies.pdf

NO WHERE on this Doc does it say anything about goals... NO WHERE... It says that aerial surveys and trophy quality will be taken into account but it doesn't mention ANYTHING about goals... In all practicality it might as well say "the sky is blue"... It provides no qualitative guide for management... NOTHING... Again it is all politics...

Have a great day...
Jason

 

[jamaro]

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-10
>AT 07:57?AM (MST)
>
>Julie Cummins is who I talked
>to... I guess your going
>to tell me she is
>full of crap too..
>
>

Steve..
Thanks... I just called Julie and she was great... I asked her what the depts goals were for managing antelope.... she gave me a bunch of qualitative stuff but then I asked her to quantify the management goals and asked her to point me to a document that talked about buck to doe ratios, and populations... She said she couldn't... I then asked her how do they determine how they allocate tags... Again she gave me some qualitative stuff.... Then I pushed again and said how... exactly... She said that the dept doesn't have ANY solid way of determining who gets how many tags... That it is based on history and current conditions. I read that as politics and current conditions...

Again there is nothing in the doc.. Read it... This is why the entire issue got brought up...The Dept doesn't have any management goals for antelope...

 

[jamaro]

>Jamaro-
>
>Amazing....you say I want socialism...look at
>your statement that they (guides)
>should go on welfare. These
>guys work there butts off
>and they get a good
>wage from us and they
>like what they do. Can't
>wait for them to see
>your comments.


I never said they didn't work there butts off... I did too... but you know dang well they can't make a living off of JUST guiding... Outfitters don't pay that well... If we loose some guide jobs that is FINE BY ME... At least I will get a tag... It is nothing personal... Really it isn't... I loved guiding but I soon realized that I wasn't going to make a living at it I bailed. the only people that are making money are the outfitters,LO and tag brokers...

 

[tega52]

"I dont care if a few guides lose their jobs"

WOW now im convinced you really are an idoit, yes I said it and I stand by it. These "few" guides that would lose their jobs if we dropped the % non-resident tags, they'd be happy to thank you for reducing their income. No you cant make a living at, but DAMN it sure does help these days.

I'd like to catch a glimpse of the bubble you live in, its gotta be pretty darn interesting.

 

[canyonwell]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-10 AT 09:00PM (MST)[p]>>LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-10
>>AT 07:57?AM (MST)
>>
>>Julie Cummins is who I talked
>>to... I guess your going
>>to tell me she is
>>full of crap too..
>>
>>
>
>Steve..
>Thanks... I just called Julie and
>she was great... I asked
>her what the depts goals
>were for managing antelope....
>she gave me a bunch
>of qualitative stuff but then
>I asked her to quantify
>the management goals and asked
>her to point me to
>a document that talked about
>buck to doe ratios, and
>populations... She said she couldn't...
>I then asked her how
>do they determine how they
>allocate tags... Again she gave
>me some qualitative stuff.... Then
>I pushed again and said
>how... exactly... She said that
>the dept doesn't have ANY
>solid way of determining who
>gets how many tags... That
>it is based on history
>and current conditions. I
>read that as politics and
>current conditions...
>
>Again there is nothing in the
>doc.. Read it... This is
>why the entire issue got
>brought up...The Dept doesn't have
>any management goals for antelope...
>


So what you are telling me is that you grilled Julie until you were convinced that you could twist her words around enough to halfway support some small portion of your twisted little ideas of how you think the game department works.

What is on paper and what actually happens are two different things.

If this bill passes I know of a minimum of 300,000 acres of ground that will never see another hunter at any price. And that is just on 2 ranches where I have discussed the issue.

I guess that puts the non-res hunters overcrowding public areas.

Why in the world would we let somebody like you tell us what we are going to do on our own place?

As it is we give hunters a great hunt at a great price and have had 100% success over the past 6 years.(with the exception of one individual that didn't see a buck he wanted to take) I think there are a few mm members that have been here and will back me up on this. Bess being one of them and it was his son that wouldn't shoot a buck.

That year we had 6 non res hunters that stayed out of your hunting areas and left with a great feeling about the hunting here in New Mexico.

 

[jamaro]

That is garbage...You are reading it but you are not comprehending it.. Those are two entirely different things... There are no management goals....

The doc says that those factors may be used BUT it doesn't say how they will be used... Those are entirely two different things...


That is like say... I am going to give you money.... But I don't say how much...

 

[NMPaul]

Okay guys this is getting old.

I could really care less about you two insulting one another back, (in fact it could be considered part of the entertainment part of MM), but, when one of you starts complaining about what the other one is saying it is enough.

Unfortunately, MM is not for the thin skinned. Check out the Political forum or General hunting forum some time. The basic deal is that we try to not be to heavy handed in moderating the forums.

If you do not want to get into a pissing contest choose your topics wisely.

 

[canyonwell]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-10 AT 01:16PM (MST)[p]Where did Post 39 go? It clearly quoted the A-PLUS antelope management link that Jamaro posted. And it clearly states buck to doe ratios are used in the antelope management program. It also clearly states that surveys are done in the spring.

Jamaro is the one that posted the link. Apparently he didn't read it first because it is devistating to his case.


I think this has been a great topic and debate in the sense that Jamaro is trying to tell everybody lies about how the antelope system works and the MM public has a right to know the truth.

Unlike Jamaro, my statements have been based on facts.

Now that this is out in the open people can base thier own opinions on how to vote because they know the truth.

So to quote NMPaul, "choose your topics wisely if you want to get into a pissing contest"

I'm still not sure what Jamaro's motive or agenda was in starting this whole matter but maybe he has something against non res hunters. Most everything he stated has come straight out of a fiction novel.



Steve

 

[NMPaul]

I deleted the post because Jamaro asked me to.

I had stayed out of this post because it seemed that the 2 of you treated each other with equal disrespect (I was not keeping score).

When there was a pm regarding this post to me I immediately responded and included my phone number to discuss it. I received no call or pm for several days and then a nasty note regarding this post.
I then deleted the post.

Just so you all know, MM is not a heavily moderated site. Profanity is deleted when I see it, naked women and racist posts are deleted when I see them as well.

Other than that, it can get a little offensive. Spend some time in the campfire, general hunting and political forum and you will see some of that. We have very little of it in the MM forum, but, I hesitate to delete posts that are not breaking the rules. I have spoke to several of you on the phone and it has always been productive.
Just because I do not delete a post that disagrees with yours does not mean I disagree with you.
MM is here for entertainment, information and to meet others that enjoy hunting.
On the information end of it, there tends to be disagreements. If you cant handle it, stay out of it.

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[jamaro]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-10 AT 01:59PM (MST)[p]>And it clearly states buck
>to doe ratios are used
>in the antelope management program.
>It also clearly states that
>surveys are done in the
>spring.


Stevie...You are a MORON... Learn to read... The doc says that it will be used be it doesn't say what the goals are.. there is a big difference.... Dang... Seriously... You are reading what you want and NOT UNDERSTANDING.... Amazing...

When I asked Julie she said that they would like to managed for a 25%-30% buck to doe ratio but there aren't any rules for this... Man.. Did you go to school? Did you take comprehension??

Dude... Learn to read...

AGAIN the reason that this entire issue got brought up again is because there is NO MANAGEMENT PLAN...

My goal??? I want R to have a better chance of getting a tag than a NR.. Bottom line... if you can't see that or if you think that it is ok for NR to be getting more tags than you are a JACKASS!!!

Learn to read... that link is a policy that doesn't have any goals... it is useless...

 

[canyonwell]

lol.. Now it seems you have changed your own goals of this post just so you can feel like you are going to win the arguement. You might want to go to the top and read how many times you flip flopped on your way down here.


I guess it doesn't matter anymore. Based on the Game commission meeting I'll be enjoying the game and fish flying over this spring to tell me how many tags I'll be able to have next year.

Happy Hunting..

Steve

 

[canyonwell]

I sure hated to see post 39 go.. It was a masterpiece.

 

[nnmhunter]

Yes! They should pass this bill for NM Res. to get more tags. I hunt units 6c,50,51,52 for elk and for deer 2b,6c,51,52. for the last 20 years and lately it is hard to to get tags for these units. I am not trying be greedy I am just trying to get tags and put meat in the freezer to eat. We get these out state hunters who come out here to hunt for just the antlers and leave the meat to spoil. I have seen it. and also these outfitters they also get alot of the tags and they sell them for good money. lets be fair.

nnmhunter.

 

[NMPaul]

>Yes! They should pass this bill
>for NM Res. to get
>more tags. I hunt units
>6c,50,51,52 for elk and for
>deer 2b,6c,51,52. for the last
>20 years and lately it
>is hard to to get
>tags for these units. I
>am not trying be greedy
>I am just trying to
>get tags and put meat
>in the freezer to eat.
>We get these out state
>hunters who come out here
>to hunt for just the
>antlers and leave the meat
>to spoil. I have seen
>it. and also these outfitters
>they also get alot of
>the tags and they sell
>them for good money.
>lets be fair.
>
>nnmhunter.


First leaving meat to spoil is against the law and if you catch someone doing it turn them in.

Second, there are plenty of "slob" NM hunters. There is no way to say that Non Res hunters are worse than Resident hunters when it comes to poaching, leaving meat to waste, shooting animals on private land and leaving them there or any of the other crap that goes on.

I tend to think that someone that goes to great expense to come here as a group may be a little more considerate of laws.

As far as more tags going to resident hunters I tend to agree with you, but, how many and where they come from has been beaten to death pretty well on these forums.

In the units I hunt they could reduce the tags 25% for the next 5 years and who they took them from (resident, non resident, outfitters) is less important to me than them doing it.
Of course they are not going to do it, so it does not matter.