Potential chages to the conservation tags system.

[JakeH]

Hey all, in this latest round of RAC meetings the conservation tags was one of the topics of discussion. Mostly to do with some rules changes the DWR wanted to implement.

At our NE RAC meeting we approved the changes as presented, but we also had some good discussion about the program as a whole. We made a second motion on the subject to direct the Wildlife Board to look into taking a percentage of the current conservation tags (these are seperate from the 200 expo tags) and find a way to implement a drawing process for those tags that the majority of the public can participate in. (similar to a raffle but technically a raffle is not allowed as it is illegal for the state to do a raffle) the current number of conservation tags auctioned off are around 300. This motion passed unanimous in our RAC. This would take some additional rule changes to make happen as the way the tags are currently sold is implemented in rule.

My initial intentions on this topic was to try and scale back the total Number Of Tags, I had two ways I had intended on trying to make a motion on. Currently the way the program sets, the number of tags given from each unit is on a sliding scale of 1 to 8 potential tags per unit in the state. To reach 8 tags there has to be 150 public draw tags given to reach the maximum of 8 conservation tags. Obviously less than 150 means less conservation tags depending on the numbers.

So my idea to reduce these tags was to implement a cap of 5 conservation tags rather than 8, OR simply raise the sliding scale from 150 public tags to 300. This would have overall reduced the numbers given out, but would ultimately offer for the same amount in the future if the herds improved and more tags we're given to the public in the future. But after watching the southeast rac I got the idea to instead try to move some of them to a raffle type system instead. And another rac member had also come up with a similar idea so ultimately we went with that instead.

So, I personally don't know if this will go anywhere, ultimately it is up to the Wildlife board to take it up and put some legs into the motion, but I feel with some help from you all then that is a real possibility.

The Wildlife Board will meet on June 13th and this motion will be brought to them then, I ask that if you would like to see some changes to the current conservation tag system, we now have a foot in the door and I urge you all to send the board members emails, or feedback saying you support the motion sent to them from the NE RAC.

To submit feedback to the proposal directly go to this link:

https://wildlife.utah.gov/feedback.html

Scroll down to the proposals and at the top select the Wildlife Board as the recipient and then scroll down to proposal #3 "Changes to the conservation system", then select that you would like to give feed back and give a comment. In the comments you could say you support the secondary motion presented from the NE RAC.

If you want you can email the board members directly, here is a list of all of them including DWR Director Shirley.

Randy Dearth, Chair
Northeastern Region
Serving until August 2025
Vernal, UT 84078
[email protected]

Gary Nielson, Vice Chair
Central Region
Serving until August 2027
Nephi, UT 84648
[email protected]

Kent Johnson
Southeastern Region
Serving until August 2029
Green River, UT
[email protected]

Paula Richmond
Southern Region
Serving until August 2029
Beaver, UT
[email protected]

Bret Selman
Northern Region
Serving until August 2025
Tremonton, UT 84337
[email protected]

Bryce Thurgood
Northern Region
Serving until August 2027
Perry, UT 84302
[email protected]

Justin "J" Shirley, Executive Secretary
DWR Director
Salt Lake City, UT 84114
[email protected]

If any of you would like to watch our discussion we had on this here is the NE RAC meeting, go to the 57 min mark to get to the conservation permit discussion.

 

[elkhunter81]

Sounds great emails will be sent

 

[elkhunterUT]

Thanks Jake! I will send in my comments on this to the WB.

I am supportive of any and all efforts to reduce the ridiculous number of auction tags Utah has currently. I like the approach to take a percentage of the current auction tags and make them available to everyone through a raffle or something similar. My strong preference would be to take 75% (225 tags) of the 300 current auction tags and make them available to all and keep 25% (75 tags) for auction to the highest bidder.

Actually if I had it my way, I would only have 1-2 auction tags per species and call it good.

 

[Blackie6]

Email sent. Time for every one to have a shot at these tags.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Hope everyone floods the WB with comments on this one. This is as good a chance as any to make a change!

 

[YZF_88]

If those tags are in the draw...isn't it essentially like a raffle tag for everyone who applies and spends the application fee?

 

[JakeH]

If those tags are in the draw...isn't it essentially like a raffle tag for everyone who applies and spends the application fee?

Yes, but I think they work around that by subbing it out to a company in Nevada to do the draw.

 

[JakeH]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm kinda disappointed with the lack of conversation with this post.

I figured there would be some decent discussion in here. What gives? Just a dead time of year or what?

 

[Robiland]

I am very surprised too! I thought it would be a hot topic. Maybe it needs to be talked about around, or near, the Expo??? I dont know. But I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A CHANGE!!!!

A change in this program and the CWMU program and the amount of guides in Utah or even per species or per unit.

 

[lostinOregon]

Jake, not commenting because I dont have much faith that the status quo will change. Too much money and funny business going on for any meaningful change in my opinion.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

^^bingo. Utah is so far down this rabbit hole it isn't going to change. There is also no accountability in the state in general. Just look at Muley Freak and Wade Lemon. I'll also bet not a dang thing is done over this Alton baiting situation. I bet it's business as usual for them this fall.

 

[JakeH]

Jake, not commenting because I dont have much faith that the status quo will change. Too much money and funny business going on for any meaningful change in my opinion.

Well if everyone has your attitude then it sure as hell won't change. But if people would respond and show interest in it things definitely could be changed for the better.

I guess when I see everyone pitching a fit next winter I can say I made an effort and nobody supported it.

I am very surprised too! I thought it would be a hot topic. Maybe it needs to be talked about around, or near, the Expo??? I dont know. But I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A CHANGE!!!!

A change in this program and the CWMU program and the amount of guides in Utah or even per species or per unit.

The problem is, right now is when things can be changed, they have a schedule of when they go over these programs. So next February when everyone is up in arms again it won't matter.

We will see how it goes next week in the board meeting, but I was hoping for a little bit of support from the people I always see complaining about it here.

 

[Tikka]

^^bingo. Utah is so far down this rabbit hole it isn't going to change. There is also no accountability in the state in general. Just look at Muley Freak and Wade Lemon. I'll also bet not a dang thing is done over this Alton baiting situation. I bet it's business as usual for them this fall.

The Wade Heaton/Alton debacle is getting national attention… I bet that one sticks…

 

[treedagain]

Hard to believe anything will change. The CWMU program is the worst thing to have happened to public land hunting. With the exception of a Deseret or ensign ranch type property it has taken away FAR more opportunity away. Lost creek/chalk creek/ raft river are prime examples of ground that could be hunted with a minimal trespass fee or knock on a door.

 

[Deerlove]

Hard to believe anything will change. The CWMU program is the worst thing to have happened to public land hunting. With the exception of a Deseret or ensign ranch type property it has taken away FAR more opportunity away. Lost creek/chalk creek/ raft river are prime examples of ground that could be hunted with a minimal trespass fee or knock on a door.

When a new cwmu pops up the state tries to spin it as a positive ridiculous

 

[Robiland]

When a new cwmu pops up the state tries to spin it as a positive ridiculous

EXACTLY! So many people only see that and think its a win win. Well, its a lose/win. Public loses out, landowners (actually whoever runs the CWMU) are the winners.

 

[Tikka]

Jake, I left my comments and emailed the folks listed above... We'll see where this goes...

 

[elkhunterUT]

Jake, I left my comments and emailed the folks listed above... We'll see where this goes...

I did as well - I hope people do that rather than talking about it here to be honest (though some good discussion here is not a bad thing). Need everyone to make their voices heard by those that can actually do something about it - the Wildlife Board!!

 

[hoss]

I dont normally comment on things because there is so much emotion based nonsense, and no factual information exchanged on too many topics....BUT I will comment on the CWMU issue. Anyone that has ever hunted on the pauns or around the Alton CWMU knows for a fact that its a huge bait pile....That being said, I will say this about the CWMU program. Its totally taking advantage of the public. The wildlife belongs to the State(public, US, you and me)...The CWMU's control their seasons, so they never hunt when the public is hunting outside their boundaries and they become a sanctuary for all the wildlife... For example, there are 4 CWMU's on the Fishlake unit...If you have an Elk tag on the fishlake, you are aware that they have the control.. I feel that the CWMU's should have to hunt during the same seasons as the public outside, that way there is a balance of pressure. Its totally unfair to the average guy to have these private landowners control the seasons, if they are unwilling to hunt the same seasons, then even out the number of tags they recieve to sell with the amount that goes into the public draw. The Alton is no different with the deer.. they control the animals.

 

[txhunter58]

What about this idea for the conservation tags?

Hold a separate drawing and charge more to apply. Kind of like Wyoming does but with a twist. They would be a completely separate set of tags. Charge $50 (or whatever makes sense) for the app fee for those tags.

 

[Deerlove]

I dont normally comment on things because there is so much emotion based nonsense, and no factual information exchanged on too many topics....BUT I will comment on the CWMU issue. Anyone that has ever hunted on the pauns or around the Alton CWMU knows for a fact that its a huge bait pile....That being said, I will say this about the CWMU program. Its totally taking advantage of the public. The wildlife belongs to the State(public, US, you and me)...The CWMU's control their seasons, so they never hunt when the public is hunting outside their boundaries and they become a sanctuary for all the wildlife... For example, there are 4 CWMU's on the Fishlake unit...If you have an Elk tag on the fishlake, you are aware that they have the control.. I feel that the CWMU's should have to hunt during the same seasons as the public outside, that way there is a balance of pressure. Its totally unfair to the average guy to have these private landowners control the seasons, if they are unwilling to hunt the same seasons, then even out the number of tags they recieve to sell with the amount that goes into the public draw. The Alton is no different with the deer.. they control the animals.

I dont normally comment on things because there is so much emotion based nonsense, and no factual information exchanged on too many topics....BUT I will comment on the CWMU issue. Anyone that has ever hunted on the pauns or around the Alton CWMU knows for a fact that its a huge bait pile....That being said, I will say this about the CWMU program. Its totally taking advantage of the public. The wildlife belongs to the State(public, US, you and me)...The CWMU's control their seasons, so they never hunt when the public is hunting outside their boundaries and they become a sanctuary for all the wildlife... For example, there are 4 CWMU's on the Fishlake unit...If you have an Elk tag on the fishlake, you are aware that they have the control.. I feel that the CWMU's should have to hunt during the same seasons as the public outside, that way there is a balance of pressure. Its totally unfair to the average guy to have these private landowners control the seasons, if they are unwilling to hunt the same seasons, then even out the number of tags they recieve to sell with the amount that goes into the public draw. The Alton is no different with the deer.. they control the animals.

I have more of a problem with the 10% public tags compared to the season dates, it should be more 70 30 or 60 40.

 

[LittleBull]

I haven’t ever heard of a good explanation as to why we have 500 plus expo/conservation tags. If you cut it down to a couple tags for each species the price of the tags would go up exponentially. If you can generate even close to a similar dollar amount on a far fewer number of tags that’s something we should definitely do. Non profits shouldn’t get to use public assets to raise funds. There are plenty of ways they can raise funds to pay their employees without taking tags out of the public draw. ( I mean to spend on conservation)

 

[JakeH]

I haven’t ever heard of a good explanation as to why we have 500 plus expo/conservation tags. If you cut it down to a couple tags for each species the price of the tags would go up exponentially. If you can generate even close to a similar dollar amount on a far fewer number of tags that’s something we should definitely do. Non profits shouldn’t get to use public assets to raise funds. There are plenty of ways they can raise funds to pay their employees without taking tags out of the public draw. ( I mean to spend on conservation)

I agree with your point of less tags should, or could generate the same amount if not more money and that was the angle I was initially going to go with. But, I also like the idea of getting the general public a chance at these tags, thus the conservation tag draw was the direction we chose to go. And like it or not I think that has a better chance of getting looked at then just a strait down the line cut of the tags.

That said the money raised by the conservation tags goes to conservation projects, every dollar is tracked and can be shown going to projects that the DWR approves. There seems to be some misinformation that the conservation orgs get the money to use how they see fit and that is just not the case.

 

[JakeH]

I have more of a problem with the 10% public tags compared to the season dates, it should be more 70 30 or 60 40.

I wish I could make this a possibility, but the odds of this are drastically stacked against us. But I will keep bringing it up when I have the opportunity.

 

[JakeH]

I dont normally comment on things because there is so much emotion based nonsense, and no factual information exchanged on too many topics....BUT I will comment on the CWMU issue. Anyone that has ever hunted on the pauns or around the Alton CWMU knows for a fact that its a huge bait pile....That being said, I will say this about the CWMU program. Its totally taking advantage of the public. The wildlife belongs to the State(public, US, you and me)...The CWMU's control their seasons, so they never hunt when the public is hunting outside their boundaries and they become a sanctuary for all the wildlife... For example, there are 4 CWMU's on the Fishlake unit...If you have an Elk tag on the fishlake, you are aware that they have the control.. I feel that the CWMU's should have to hunt during the same seasons as the public outside, that way there is a balance of pressure. Its totally unfair to the average guy to have these private landowners control the seasons, if they are unwilling to hunt the same seasons, then even out the number of tags they recieve to sell with the amount that goes into the public draw. The Alton is no different with the deer.. they control the animals.

I too agree that this system is not great. I agree they should have to hunt the same as the public lands around them. There tags should be similar to landowner tags on LE Units in my opinion, I was always under the assumption that CWMUs were for general season designation hunts. It was just recently that I learned they are also in LE Units. (We don't have many cwmus in the NE region)

 

[Robiland]

I have more of a problem with the 10% public tags compared to the season dates, it should be more 70 30 or 60 40.

I would even dare say it needs to be closer to the 50/50. And hunts start at the same time as the units around.

 

[elkantlers]

Comments sent. We really need to reign in the amount of tags sold to the highest bidder.

I really think the answer is a monthly drawing for 2 each of the three LE species and 1 OIL species. a total of 84 permits
$10 each equals a $40 donation/chance per month per applicant.
This drawing will need to be open to Nonresidents to really get the numbers of applicants needed to make this work. Plus, we should want their dollars to spend on our herds.
If 15,000 people apply each month, consistently, which I think is on the low side, that's $600,000 each month or $150,000 per animal.
x12 months ans you just made $7.2million

How much money was raised by all the conservation tags in 2022 (most current year reported) $7.3 million How many permits were sold? 318 permits.

So by my math, we could raise roughly equal the amount of money with 84 permits and put over 200 permits back into the public draw.
And, the biggest advantage is 100% of these permits are available to the average hunter. Zero auction tags.


Then if we really want to make some money for wildlife, we need to get the Expo tags in a drawing that doesn't include having to make the trek to SLC to verify in person.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

Just remember you guys want to make them more money for what?
The reason why I’m saying this is how many times on here and other forum its all about the $ that’s all the DWR cares about.

So those tags are for conservation/ habitat projects so here’s my proposal.

Before you can apply you have to do a certain amount of hours on habitat projects done before you’re eligible to apply period. No you can’t buy out your hours.

If this is not a option then leave it alone.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Just remember you guys want to make them more money for what?
The reason why I’m saying this is how many times on here and other forum its all about the $ that’s all the DWR cares about.

So those tags are for conservation/ habitat projects so here’s my proposal.

Before you can apply you have to do a certain amount of hours on habitat projects done before you’re eligible to apply period. No you can’t buy out your hours.

If this is not a option then leave it alone.

I support Jakes proposal with the exception, If were going to take away from conservation/Habitat projects then there needs to be a balance there.
The hunters have to do conservation and habitat projects before they can apply. Then I will be 100% on board with Jake if this happens.

 

[Robiland]

I support Jakes proposal with the exception, If were going to take away from conservation/Habitat projects then there needs to be a balance there.
The hunters have to do conservation and habitat projects before they can apply. Then I will be 100% on board with Jake if this happens.

"Before you can apply you have to do a certain amount of hours on habitat projects done before you’re eligible to apply period. No you can’t buy out your hours.

If this is not a option then leave it alone."


I am pondering those 2 points made. Not sure how I feel about that. But can you imagine the pain of paperwork to log that info? That could be very tedious. I bet there are smart guys that can figure that out with an app or a program logging that info. But I look at how crappy and how hard it has been sometimes to get hours for dedicated hunter hours. And many of those projects are GARBAGE! And there used to be a ton on private property. I was not a fan of that either.

 

[elkantlers]

They can't keep enough projects going for the DH'S, there is really no way they could make that work. It's a good thought though.

 

[Deerlove]

"Before you can apply you have to do a certain amount of hours on habitat projects done before you’re eligible to apply period. No you can’t buy out your hours.

If this is not a option then leave it alone."


I am pondering those 2 points made. Not sure how I feel about that. But can you imagine the pain of paperwork to log that info? That could be very tedious. I bet there are smart guys that can figure that out with an app or a program logging that info. But I look at how crappy and how hard it has been sometimes to get hours for dedicated hunter hours. And many of those projects are GARBAGE! And there used to be a ton on private property. I was not a fan of that either.

Or guys leaning on their shovel at a project

 

[elkassassin]

I Already Can't Afford to Buy Out My Hours!

 

[JakeH]

I support Jakes proposal with the exception, If were going to take away from conservation/Habitat projects then there needs to be a balance there.
The hunters have to do conservation and habitat projects before they can apply. Then I will be 100% on board with Jake if this happens.

What do you mean "if we are going to take away from conservation/habitat projects"

No where has anyone suggested taking away from those projects.

If your suggesting that by doing this less money will be raised for those programs then that is a valid concern. Personally I don't feel that will be the case, I think this will raise more money for the program not less.

As far as mandatory hours worked To be eligable to put in for these tags.... well that is just a logistical nightmare and would 100% reduce the amount of money raised.

The Entire point of doing this is to get as many people as possible trying for the tags that includes nonresidents to raise as much money as possible. How are you going to get nonresident to help with these projects in that case?

 

[elkantlers]

The Entire point of doing this is to get as many people as possible trying for the tags that includes nonresidents to raise as much money as possible. How are you going to get nonresident to help with these projects in that case?

That is why it is so important to get the "In person Validation" requirement for the Expo tags removed. We are severely limiting our fundraising power by alienating anyone that can't make the trip to SLC.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

What do you mean "if we are going to take away from conservation/habitat projects"

No where has anyone suggested taking away from those projects.

If your suggesting that by doing this less money will be raised for those programs then that is a valid concern. Personally I don't feel that will be the case, I think this will raise more money for the program not less.

As far as mandatory hours worked To be eligable to put in for these tags.... well that is just a logistical nightmare and would 100% reduce the amount of money raised.

The Entire point of doing this is to get as many people as possible trying for the tags that includes nonresidents to raise as much money as possible. How are you going to get nonresident to help with these projects in that case?

So you want to make the DWR more money correct.
I would like to know how those funds would be used.

 

[JakeH]

So you want to make the DWR more money correct.
I would like to know how those funds would be used.

Well then pull up the audited reports the division puts out every year, or look at the spread sheets that each conservation organization puts out that details where they put their portions of the money too.

I want to make more money for the conservation tag system, that money is tracked and audited through the whole process they put out annual reports on what money was raised, spent, and left over from each year. And whatever is leftover goes into the budget for the next year. The DWR just directs how the money is spent, whether that be habitat projects, installation of guzzlers, or flat out purchasing land like they did last year when they purchased that cinnamon creek land.

This program raises money for conservation not for the DWR.

 

[JakeH]

That is why it is so important to get the "In person Validation" requirement for the Expo tags removed. We are severely limiting our fundraising power by alienating anyone that can't make the trip to SLC.

That is a completely different system, and has nothing to do with the conservation tag system.

The expo tags is its own entity entirely, that's a whole other mountain to climb. I'm gonna put my focus on the conservation tag system for now.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

Well then pull up the audited reports the division puts out every year, or look at the spread sheets that each conservation organization puts out that details where they put their portions of the money too.

I want to make more money for the conservation tag system, that money is tracked and audited through the whole process they put out annual reports on what money was raised, spent, and left over from each year. And whatever is leftover goes into the budget for the next year. The DWR just directs how the money is spent, whether that be habitat projects, installation of guzzlers, or flat out purchasing land like they did last year when they purchased that cinnamon creek land.

This program raises money for conservation not for the DWR.

I already had looked at the audit reports I’ve been following them for years.
But I also see how many people put in their time on these conservation projects because I’m one of them.
That’s why it pisses me off more than anything, when it comes shed season these jack wads are driving their ATVs all over the sagebrush flats and out through the cedar trees out in the book cliffs.

Sorry, but I’m not on board at all. I know what conservation tags are there for and I don’t think it’s too much to ask, if you want to apply put in your time there’s plenty of projects out there especially in the conservation groups.

that’s my two cents

 

[Elkslayer2015]

No where has anyone suggested taking away from those projects.

Conservation groups always need help for doing those projects you just listed correct. Well then this is how we get people out in the field to help.
You and I both know a majority of the hunter will only apply. This is a prime time to get more help out in the field to help with those projects.

The Entire point of doing this is to get as many people as possible trying for the tags that includes nonresidents to raise as much money as possible. How are you going to get nonresident to help with these projects in that case?

My point exactly. Conservation groups all ways need help on projects.
A lot of nonresidents drive hundreds of miles to apply for expo tags.

 

[Robiland]

Conservation groups always need help for doing those projects you just listed correct. Well then this is how we get people out in the field to help.
You and I both know a majority of the hunter will only apply. This is a prime time to get more help out in the field to help with those projects.

My point exactly. Conservation groups all ways need help on projects.
A lot of nonresidents drive hundreds of miles to apply for expo tags.

I honestly dont think you would get many, if any at all, to take a few days off work to do a project in another state either next door or acorss the country, for a chance to apply for a SLIM chance at a tag. I dont see that happening. You wouldnt even get any instate people to do it. Look at how many of us bought hours for dedicated hours the last several years. Mostly since the projects they have listed are either garbage (MOST OF THE TIME) or are at bad timing for people and jobs and family plans.

The goal is to MAXIMIZE the money for wildlife for projects. Comparing the Expo doesnt count. That is apples and oranges. Coming to the expo to drink beer and check out the hot chicks or check out the guys with blinged out or bedazzled tight pants and 2 sizes to small of shirts is way more fun than working. Oh and some do come to check out the gear too.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I honestly dont think you would get many, if any at all, to take a few days off work to do a project in another state either next door or acorss the country, for a chance to apply for a SLIM chance at a tag. I dont see that happening. You wouldnt even get any instate people to do it. Look at how many of us bought hours for dedicated hours the last several years. Mostly since the projects they have listed are either garbage (MOST OF THE TIME) or are at bad timing for people and jobs and family plans.

The goal is to MAXIMIZE the money for wildlife for projects. Comparing the Expo doesnt count. That is apples and oranges. Coming to the expo to drink beer and check out the hot chicks or check out the guys with blinged out or bedazzled tight pants and 2 sizes to small of shirts is way more fun than working. Oh and some do come to check out the gear too.

Make sense. Thanks for explaining I just think as many people that say post after post all the DWR cares about is the $ this could easily be a double edge sword. There is also a ton of hunters that complain the DWR don't care. No I'm not one of them I do My fair share of work.
I just feel like if its for conservation then they need to put in the time. I totally understand DH projects can be a joke but its really easy to get with one of the conservation group to go help with projects to get your hours.

 

[Robiland]

Make sense. Thanks for explaining I just think as many people that say post after post all the DWR cares about is the $ this could easily be a double edge sword. There is also a ton of hunters that complain the DWR don't care. No I'm not one of them I do My fair share of work.
I just feel like if its for conservation then they need to put in the time. I totally understand DH projects can be a joke but its really easy to get with one of the conservation group to go help with projects to get your hours.

There is nothing worse than when I see (like the last month or so) that the DWR is all about money, and I cant draw a tag and Jr hasnt drawn a tag in 3 years, its not fair.....its not fair......its all about money.......they dont care......blah blah blah.
So many of them have ZERO clue to how things work or have any idea about anything going on. And I could almost guarantee that most of them have never done a single day of service to help wildlife.

 

[JakeH]

I already had looked at the audit reports I’ve been following them for years.
But I also see how many people put in their time on these conservation projects because I’m one of them.

If you have looked at the reports, been on the projects and know where the money goes then why are you questioning where the money is going to go?

Sorry, but I’m not on board at all. I know what conservation tags are there for and I don’t think it’s too much to ask, if you want to apply put in your time there’s plenty of projects out there especially in the conservation groups.

that’s my two cents

So you are good with the big money guys having access to these tags, even though most of them don't contribute to the projects, but are opposed to a system that would allow the average hunter to have opportunity at those tags as well.

Got it. Thanks for your opinion, I'm not opposed to more people helping with projects, but what you proposed doesn't seem logical to me. Maybe take a few tags and tie them to specific projects and anyone that participates gets there name in the hat for the tag.

 

[JakeH]

Conservation groups always need help for doing those projects you just listed correct. Well then this is how we get people out in the field to help.
You and I both know a majority of the hunter will only apply. This is a prime time to get more help out in the field to help with those projects.

My point exactly. Conservation groups all ways need help on projects.
A lot of nonresidents drive hundreds of miles to apply for expo tags.

So you would rather the big money guys gets all these tags even though they don't contribute to the projects. I'm trying to adjust the system to help everyone have opportunity at these tags, not re-invent the wheel. What you guys are proposing would drastically reduce the funds raised with what I have proposed. The whole point is to maximize money raised not to incorporate extremely hard to accomplish tasks in the existing system.

Hell there's a good chance they don't even look at my motion, and things carry on as usual.

 

[elkantlers]

That is a completely different system, and has nothing to do with the conservation tag system.

The expo tags is its own entity entirely, that's a whole other mountain to climb. I'm gonna put my focus on the conservation tag system for now.

I understand that. How the helll many "systems" do we have, or need, that are sucking public permits away from the public hunter. The DWR does this on purpose so they can say only a small amount of tags are going to this or that. If you add up all the "systems", the numbers of permits public sportsman are asked to give up is staggering. Especially when they are the cream of the crop permits.
I was just saying if you want to get as much nonresident money as possible into the system, they must do away from in person validaton at the Expo.

 

[JakeH]

I understand that. How the helll many "systems" do we have, or need, that are sucking public permits away from the public hunter. The DWR does this on purpose so they can say only a small amount of tags are going to this or that. If you add up all the "systems", the numbers of permits public sportsman are asked to give up is staggering. Especially when they are the cream of the crop permits.
I was just saying if you want to get as much nonresident money as possible into the system, they must do away from in person validaton at the Expo.

I am not 100% sure the Wildlife Board could even do it by themselves, I think it would take legislative approval. But I could be wrong.

 

[Bux n Dux]

This whole thing is a mess. There is not a fix all solution. My best attempt at it would be to leave LE the way it is. All general and antlerless hunts would be a variation of the bonus draw system. But instead of doing it 50/50, do an 80/20 or 90/10 (after the youth and dedicated tags are pulled from the pool). Nothing huge, but something that gives guys with less than top tier preference point at least a shot at drawing a tag. Other than that, just let it be. Utah came up with this system 30 years ago. We will suffer the consequences because of it.

 

[JakeH]

Well, no motion or action taken on my motion, but there was some good discussion.

I feel there is still some opportunity here to improve this system and I will continue to work on it.

Go to the 11:04 am mark on the clock in the top right corner to get to this topic.

Thank you to all of you that submitted feedback, it was brought up in the discussion. I appreciate your help with this.