Project 270 WSM

Utah400Elk · Nov 24, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-11 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]Project 270 WSM:

Let me start by saying that I was ruined by my 257 Weatherby Vanguard. That was the rifle that I started reloading. It was ridiculously easy. Load that gun with a max load of IMR 7828 or RE 22 and it will shoot about any bullet sub MOA. I first shot Banres 115 grn TSX at about 3400 fps. I used that rifle for elk and deer and it is a lot of fun to shot. I have now swithced to 110 grn Accubonds and it will shoot 1/2 inch all day log. I have a muzzle velocity of 3450fps. It is now my deer gun.

After making a bit of extra money this summer, I decided to buy a Weatherby Vanguard Sum-MOA in a 270 WSM. I started out shooting the Winchester 130 grn soft points. This is the round the rifle was shot with for the guaranteed sub MOA. It shot right around 3/4 inch at 100 yards. It also shot about 3250fps. I shot the Winchester Premium Factory ammo in the 140 grn accubonds and got about 3150fps.

With a little winchester brass, after the rifle break in, I started reloading. I followed the Nosler book and found the velocities were way off in my gun. A max listed load of 69.5 grns MagPro produced about 3009 fps with 140 grns Accubonds. The other powders were way off as well. I worked up to 62.5 grns of RE 22 and only got to about 2950 fps with the accubonds. Neither of these loads have shown any signs of excess preasure.

I now have Federal brass, Winchester brass, and Norma brass. I am trying to get the most I can out of this round. I would like to shoot the 140 grn at about 3200. Am I asking too much? I have just loaded some RE 17 starting at 59 grains working up 1/2 grain at a time to 62 grains. All of these loads are all with the three different brass that I previously listed. I have also loaded some MagPro from 71-72 grns in the same brass as above. The 71 through 72 grains of MagPro seem to be a compressed load in the Norma brass but not in the others. These test loads are set at COL of 2.840. The accubonds hit the lands in my rifle at about 2.856.

Accurate shows 70.5 as a max load for MagPro with a 140 grain bullet. The RE 17 shows 60 as a max load for 150 grain bullets and 62 as a max for 130 grain bullets. I am going to work up to the max very carefully.

Another question for those with a lot more experience. It does not matter what round I shoot in the Weatherby Vanguard but I always see the extractor marks. I am not getting the entire impression but I can see the outline. What else can I use for obvious signs of over pressure? My Primers are not being flattened at all. I did see flat primers in my 257 with an over-max load or RE22. I loaded my 257 up to 69 grns RE 22 with 115grn Barnes TSX. I got a muzzle velocity of almost 3500 fps. I backed down to about 3400 fps and saw no signs of pressure with that round.

Any thoughts from others that have loaded for the 270 WSM? I am trying to work up a good elk load. I know there are numerous 270 WSM threads already but thought another one would not hurt. I will keep posting on this for others that are also working on a 270 WSM load.

lip_curl · Nov 24, 2011

for an elk load, i think the accubond is the best choice in that caliber. when i hit 63g of re17 behind a 150g sst, i saw the extractor mark, my primer was flat, also the primer was creating a lip where the firin pin hit that caught your fingernail if you dragged it across it, and most notably, when i shot at 50degrees, the extractor mark was all i noticed. however when i shot the same load at 90degrees, the bolt was real sticky to open after the shot.

quest · Nov 27, 2011

tah400Elk my brother has that caliber and he shoots SST 140 grain and the powder he uses is RL 25. 1/2 groups at 100 yards, velocity is around 3180 FPS. I don't know how many grains hes using but maybe someone else is using the same load.

quest

Utah400Elk · Nov 27, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-11 AT 08:19PM (MST)[p]Went to the range today and have a lot of data to process. Long story short I was able to get 3220 FPS out of Winchester and Federal Brass with some small signs of over pressure. Small cratering around primer and a more pronounced extractor mark than in previous reloads. That was with 62 grns of RE 17. I might try backing it off a little to about 61.5. That gave me an average FPS of about 3160. I had obvious signs of over preasure with the same loads in the Norma brass. The velocity in the Norma brass was about 50 FPS slower than the Winchester and Federal brass. Not sure why I would have more preasure but slower velocity? Any ideas. I worked up to 72 grns of MagPro in Norma, Federal and Winchester brass. I only got to about 3150 FPS. All rounds (RE 17 and MagPro) shot great and were sub-moa.

I think next time to the range I will take Winchester and Federal brass loaded with 61.5 grns of RE 17. COL will start at 2.860 and work down .010 until I reach about 2.820. Just looking for the best round possible. I will be very pleased with my 270 WSM if it can shoot 140 Accubonds at 3160 sub-moa. Should be enough gun for elk and deer at the ranges I shot.

Cahunter805 · Nov 27, 2011

Speed is nice but accuracy Kills. Many factors can affect velocity such as chamber dimension, barrel length, different brass, etc. I'd say rl7 will be your best bet for speed. Also What primer are you using?

Utah400Elk · Nov 28, 2011

My rifle has a 24 inch barrel and I am using the Federal Large Magnum Rifle primers.

Pre64 · Nov 28, 2011

You may just have a sloppy chamber. Or, you may not have hit upon the powder that works for your rifle yet.

Did you get extractor marks with the factory ammo?? May not be bad idea to take it to a smith and have him check it, as well as the extractor. Or, bring it back to where you bought it and have them pay for it. Something isn't adding up.

Utah400Elk · Nov 29, 2011

I get the marks on the brass with every ammo. If I load my gun with the low begining round safe loads I still get the extractor marks. I also get marks with all factory ammo. I was thinking of taking the gun to a good gun smith I know and see what he can do for me. Would a new 26" barrel get me anything? He owes me a favor and has offered to put a new barrel on it for me. It will shot Sub-moa all day long just a bit slower than I thought this round would. I think a good safe round in my gun will be just above 3100 FPS with a 140 Accubond. I was also thinking of trying Winchester Primers

Pre64 · Nov 29, 2011

There are many on this forum with a gunsmithing background who can provide good guidance. Maybe some will chime in.

If it were my rifle I'd get the extractor looked at. You are getting extractor marks for some reason. Be nice to know why. If something needs fixing my guess is Weatherby would fix it. If factory brass is showing the marks you have a good case.

Primers may change the accuracy of your load, but they shouldn't affect velocity too much. If you are getting good accuracy from the barrel you've got I sure wouldn't mess with it. Two inches will only get you another 50fps or so anyway.

BTW, I seldom get the velocities that manuals show. Too many variables. Sometimes is easy to find the right combination of bullet and powder to get what you want, sometimes not. That's why I have a cabinet full of different powders and bullets. And manuals.

Utah400Elk · Nov 29, 2011

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate any feedback I can get.

Cahunter805 · Nov 29, 2011

Something doesn't seem right if you are getting ejector marks with factory ammo. How do the primers on the factory ammo look? I think a call to weatherby would be my first move.

Utah400Elk · Nov 29, 2011

The primers on both the reloads and factory ammo look about the same. In a few hot reloads I am getting the flat primers. The ejector marks have been on both mny new rifle and my 257 vanguard.

Cahunter805 · Nov 29, 2011

Do you have any pics of the marks? Are they located on the headstamp?

Utah400Elk · Nov 29, 2011

I will see if I can post pics of the headstanp. Not sure if they will be clear but I will try.

elkaholic123 · Nov 29, 2011

I have a Browning A-bolt Mtn-Ti 61 grns of r-17 behind 140gr accubonds, chrono right at 3150,very accurate in my rifle!

Utah400Elk · Dec 15, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-11 AT 03:48PM (MST)[p]Update,

First the head stamp pictures. I have tried several times to get a good clear picture of the head stamp. I can't get my camera to focus on the head stamp with enough clarity to see anything worth seeing?So I decided to go to the gunsmith friend for help.

First off, the ejector on my rifle had a burr. Gunsmith milled off the top end of the ejector and made a big difference in the marks left on the case head. The extractor also has a burr and leaves a mark in max loads but gunsmith stated to remove burr he would have to mill bolt face which could cause head space problems. Long and short. Burrs will leave a mark but not actually a sign of excess pressure.

He did a glass beading and free floated the barrel.

We then shot a few of my reloads through his chrono and mine. Prior to the trip to see him, I had loaded a few rounds with both Federal Magnum rifle primers and the some Winchester rifle primers (a suggestion from the gunsmith). The rounds were loaded with 60.8 grns of RE 17 in Federal brass and 140 grn Accubonds. The only difference was some had federal magnum primers and some had Winchester primers. The results were very interesting. The rounds with the Winchester primers were about 100 FPS faster? I was shooting the rounds with the Winchester primers at about 3230 fps without any signs of pressure. The rounds with the federal magnum primers were about 3140 with signs of pressure beginning to show. The gunsmith thought that the mag primers might be a little too hot and might be causing a pressure spike. He actually explained that with the short case of the WSM rounds the hot primers can actually blow all the way to the bullet and start to push it into the lands before you get full powder ignition. Does that sound right to anybody else? Made sense to me but what do I know. 3230 with 140 Accubonds sounds like a great load to me and was what I wanted from the start.

He also checked the loaded rounds with me. He thinks I might have my full length die set too deep. He thinks I am getting a little ?slap? at the bolt face because my full length die is pushing my shoulder back too far. I backed my die out 1/8 turn and will see what that does for the marks on the head stamp.

I am now working on finding the right OAL for these rounds. I have a bunch of rounds loaded now with 60.8 grns RE 17 in Federal Brass with the Winchester primers and 140 Accubonds. Starting at 2.860 and backing off .010 all the way down to 2.820. Once I find the best group out of those I will try .005 + and ? from the best group and see where I end up.

Any thoughts?

sageadvice · Dec 15, 2011

Although 3230 fps with a 140 grain Accubond without any signs of pressure is a strong loading in anyone's book, i'm pushing the same bullet with 62 grain of r-17 near 3300 with great accuracy and, also, no signs of pressure.

Myself, i'd be very interested in what 62.5 and 63 grains of R-17 would do with large rifle primers and the 140 Accubond. I'd find out, or i will, but have been way busy and am trying to buy a home so any trials i do will have to wait.

Interesting thread! Glad to see that you at least have some of your concerns worked out.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

TOPGUN · Dec 15, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-11 AT 04:31PM (MST)[p]Yep, sounds like your smith knows his stuff and I think his thoughts are on the button with his mag primer theory.

Cahunter805 · Dec 15, 2011

Sounds like a simple anwser to your headstamp marks. Sometimes a simple primer switch can do wonders for a load. I would suggest that you get a neck sizing die also. I only use a FL die when I have to push the shoulder back a few thousandths.

Utah400Elk · Dec 15, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-11 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the help guys. I will post again after next range day. The gunsmith also recomended turning down the necks on my cases and a crimp. He builds custom long range guns and said turning the necks and crimping will greatly help consistency with my reloads.

elk_horn · Dec 15, 2011

Try some RE 22 Ive worked my 270wsm up to 66 grains with no signs of pressure using the 130 grain Nosler Silver tip and win brass and winn mag primer 3 shot group 5/8"

Utah400Elk · Jan 7, 2012

Time for an update... I went shooting the other day and it went very well. I am shooting 61 grains of RE 17 at about 3200 FPS. I found that Federal brass gives me the best velocity by about 50 fps. It is faster than any other brass. I think that is all I wanted out of the round and it is shooting very well. Last time out I shot six rounds (three at a time) starting with a COL of 2.860 and worked down by .010 at a time until I was down to 2.820. I found that in my rifle, a COL of 2.830 shoots very well. I put six rounds in about 1/2 MOA.

I have now gotten a neck turner and have uniformed the necks to about .013. My next trip out I will see what turning the necks has done for me. I have started to clean the flash hole, uniforming the primer pocket and turning the necks. I have been told all of these steps will help with the accuracy. However 1/2 MOA is all I could ever hope for. I have also weighed each round of loaded ammo to group the rounds to see if different weights shoot different velocites. Not a major issue as I am only getting about 6 fps standard deviation as it is now but I am a tinkerer.

I was initially not vey happy with the Federal brass. I found that when resizing, I was splitting a lot of necks. I am not sure why this is and thought it might be a sign of hig preasure but in the last two boxes of Federal 270 WSM I tried to buy I found factory rounds with split necks in the box. I fell that a careful inspection of the factory rounds and discarding a few pieces of brass is worth 50 fps.

To those looking at a 270 WSM, I have tried IMR 7828, IMR 7828 SSC, RE 22, MagPro and RE 17. RE 17 gave me the best velocity by a long shot.

As a reminder to all...If you are trying to reload please start at the minimum levels and work up carefully. Even though this is a safe load in my rifle it might not be in others. BE CAREFUL!

More to come later...

Hardway · Jan 7, 2012

The Fed brass is faster because its thicker which creates more pressure with a given charge.... be carefull.

Utah400Elk · Jan 8, 2012

I should have said that the Federal Brass didn't show any signs of pressure. I got very similar velocities with Norma Brass but it had obvious signs of pressure. I am also using the Winchester non-mag Rifle Primers.