Tony had a few questions so I posted my answer below.
Thanks for the response!
>1. How many of you have
>actually spent any time scouting
>those areas in the summer
>when you can actually get
>a good feel for the
>amount of bucks that are
>in the area?
Tony, I have spent months in the backcountry of Wyoming and have hunted it twice. I have also spent a considerable amount of time on the winter range.
Glad to hear that you have spent so much time in the Wyoming back country. I will assume that most if not all of that time has been spent in G or H looking for deer, as that is what we are talking about here. The only reason I bring that up is if a person is spending all that time in say the Big Horns (which are beautiful I might add) it really doesn't add much to this topic. So I will again assume you were hunting either G or H? How was it? I am sure you must have enjoyed it the first time to come back the second right?
>2. Why would any of you
>take at face value anything
>an outfitter has to say
>without thinking about what his
>agenda truly is?
Who says we did....we dont need to take the outfitters word for it. Mule deer numbers are down in Wyoming by 40%. If they are managing for "opportunity" then they suck at it.
The Question I asked here was more for the original topic I posted this in as this was a copy and past from there. On that post the start of it was Robb's view of the deer heard. Thus where that question of mine came from. I would like to ask you though where you are getting that mule numbers in G and H are down 40%? And down from which year? Without a doubt last years winter hit the fawns very hard, and even the others, but everything I had seen until that point showed the deer heard on a steady incline for about the last 6 or so years.
>3. How many bucks would you
>say in a 5 or
>so square mile area is
>a good amount on their
>summer range?
This varies widely and is fairly irrelevent. What is the carrying capacity of the land? If we can have more deer shouldnt we? If we have had more deer...shouldnt we try to maintain them? If there are less now shouldnt we reduce tags?
You are right it does vary depending on the type of land we are talking about. I thought we were talking high country G and H habitat, which for the most part is all very similar. All very good to great deer habitat that is why great deer have lived there historically of course. So that being said, I do not find that question irrelevant at all. After all isn't that what we all are talking about here? No I do not feel as though a reduction of tags is necessary to help the heard rebuild after last winter, as the steady rise of population as stated above prior to last winter would seam to prove.
>4. Why do you think Old
>Rob wasn't on this same
>soap box say in the
>past years, but now he
>is?
Ummmmm, because deer numbers are down 40% from just 6 years ago....seems really obvious Tony.
Again please show me where you are getting this info.
>5. Do any of you watch
>founders pod casts about his
>scouting trips in Wyoming?
>Sense I know the answer
>to question 1 for most
>of you would be you
>have spent little to no
>time up there, do you
>believe how man bucks Brian
>says that he sees every
>year? Last year was
>right on par with all
>the rest of the years...
Yup, every single one of them. He said he only saw a few less this year. But, he hiked how far? He saw how many bucks? And all he could come up with after 30 days of scouting was a 190 buck? I have seen better bucks come out of there with less effort. Brian is a FRIGGIN STUD. If there was a better buck he would have found it and shot it. Thanks for bringing up the point that the big ones werent there this year and Brian proved it on his podcast.
He hiked a ton like always. I don't follow his podcasts nearly as close as it sounds like you do, but I do enjoy watching them. He does a great job on them and more than anything, I am always curious to see how many of the same deer we are looking at as happened in the past. I did go back and look at his total for the last 2 years and this is what he said. "26 days and 505 bucks last year, 25 days and 590 bucks in 2016" I really can't comment on the fact that all he found was 1 190" buck after 26 days, because as you said many bigger came out of there last year as well with much less effort.... Good luck opposed to bad luck? I don't know... Haha again no argument from me on him being a "stud". ha the guy hunted with a freeking broken neck! I agree with you! Again can't speak to if there was a bigger buck within eyesight of him within his 26 days. I would bet dollars to donuts there was though, and if you asked him he would probably tell you the same. As far as him shooting it too. Well again I guess you could speculate that he would have, but as even he says... Finding one and killing it are to different stories. He does not always get his target buck as you full well know if you follow his podcasts, and as I stated above it isn't for lack of trying! (broken neck...) Brian "proving" the big ones up there this year is nothing but a false statement on your part as stated above there were a lot of nice to HUGE deer taken again this year!
Then, Tony, you said it best, non resident (400 guys) and resident (7000 guys) are hitting it harder.....so let me get this straight....
Yes they are
You said
a. they are shooting more deer and are better at it
but we dont have less deer?
I don't believe I ever said anyone was shooting more deer. What I did refer to is the DYI hunter is getting better and shooting more BIG deer.
b. You said Rob cant take as big of bucks and cant find them....ok, doesnt this prove that it there are less bucks?
Again I believe you are putting words in my mouth so to speak. I never said he isn't finding them, just that now he has a harder time killing them as the DYI guys are killing some of "his" bucks.
c. then Brian hikes his tail off and scouts it better than anyone I have ever even heard of....see's less bucks, takes a 4 point buck......and you think things are great?
Man I really don't know what to tell you about how great you think Brian is at scouting and also hunting. I am not saying he is bad at it but it seems you are really hung up there. I typically put on between 70 and 100 miles per year in the preseason. He probably does more I guess. I know what I see and have killed. I will just leave it at that. Along with others I personally know.
d. then the state says deer numbers are down 40%
refer to above.
e. then Brian goes out on the Crawford range and down in the winter range and finds dead animals all over the place..... but the deer numbers are the same?
I agree last years winter was horrible!
f. then there is this local guy who says on Youtube he wont even hunt G because the deer are so bad....he says he saw less bucks on the winter range...says less bucks on the summer range....but Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa things are good.
I don't know who that guy was but I did watch the video you posted... 3 things jumped out at me.
1. He makes a very nice video.
2. Man him saying he was going to pass on I believe it was a 190". Congrats to him, the only time I have done that is when I had others that were bigger found.
3. I wish he would have bought a tag last year with the intent to not use it as I and others I know did. Seems that is a little better way of helping out.
COME ON! What would it take to convince you the deer are in trouble?
They are in some trouble after last years winter. I agree and hopefully this year mother nature is more kind to them. I have laid out some things that I believe would help much more. Did you see those? Did you see on another thread that Brian also would not call for G and H to be LQ? He must also not care about the mule deer in your thinking?
7000 residents hunting G is more people than EXIST IN MOST TOWNS IN WYOMING!
yup you are right and I love it!!!! haha that's why we don't need to manage like Co. UT. or ID!!!!! Thank god!