wileywapati
Very Active Member
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Just a reminder to get out and speak your mind at the RAC's this week and next, especially concerning the proposed rule change for conservation tags.
RAC's
- Thread starter wileywapati
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Blanding_Boy
Very Active Member
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- 1,037
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-05 AT 07:24AM (MST)[p]Folks--
This next RAC is when they will be deciding the permit allocation numbers for 2005. See the UDWR web page at http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/pdf/05_rac_schedule.pdf for the times and places and attend all you can.
I have seen the permit allocation numbers and there are many permits in areas where it indicated in the proclamation there wouldn't be any. I also did some math and numbers don't fall out the way they were supposed to based on percentages in each of the hunts. Additionally, I think many of you would be suprised as to the numbers they are recommending in some areas. I encourage you all to attend and voice your concerns if in fact you have any.
Todd
This next RAC is when they will be deciding the permit allocation numbers for 2005. See the UDWR web page at http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/pdf/05_rac_schedule.pdf for the times and places and attend all you can.
I have seen the permit allocation numbers and there are many permits in areas where it indicated in the proclamation there wouldn't be any. I also did some math and numbers don't fall out the way they were supposed to based on percentages in each of the hunts. Additionally, I think many of you would be suprised as to the numbers they are recommending in some areas. I encourage you all to attend and voice your concerns if in fact you have any.
Todd
Good to see large increases on some units. Lets shoot some elk. I think the DWR was too conservative with numbers on some units, ie San Juan, Dutton, Monroe. I was surprised they didn't give more tags on many units.
The bigger reason to go to the RAC is to voice concerns about the Raffle Tag proposal. The increase of 280 elk permits will be cut by 75-80 which could go to conservation groups. Yes, I support conservation groups, but enough is enough. Get out to the RACs or stop whinning about the issues.
The bigger reason to go to the RAC is to voice concerns about the Raffle Tag proposal. The increase of 280 elk permits will be cut by 75-80 which could go to conservation groups. Yes, I support conservation groups, but enough is enough. Get out to the RACs or stop whinning about the issues.
S
Silentstalker_work
Guest
The increases in permits are awesome! It is time to harvest some elk! As for the conservation permits they have enough as it is. Hopefully we can get that stopped. DP also has new rules regarding percentages and increases in Conservation permits "as needed and deemed appropriate by the wildlife board" ie when DP wants them. This abuse in power and permits has got to stop. Hope to see you all there.
Chad
Chad
P
Prism
Guest
Where can I find a list of the proposed numbers?
K
ktc
Guest
SS,
You know, I can kind of understand your "let's kill some elk" attitude, but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You hunted last year on an LE, I did not. Therefore, my attitude is let's not ruin the herd and keep numbers down. Yes, I know, if I draw I will never draw again. I am fine with that.
The numbers appear to be modest in most cases, but one really has to wonder how this will ultimately affect the herds. I hope the public outcry is to leave the numbers alone, but the decisions are made, we will live by the proposals, and the RAC is a smokescreen for fairness and public input.
You know, I can kind of understand your "let's kill some elk" attitude, but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You hunted last year on an LE, I did not. Therefore, my attitude is let's not ruin the herd and keep numbers down. Yes, I know, if I draw I will never draw again. I am fine with that.
The numbers appear to be modest in most cases, but one really has to wonder how this will ultimately affect the herds. I hope the public outcry is to leave the numbers alone, but the decisions are made, we will live by the proposals, and the RAC is a smokescreen for fairness and public input.
H
Hunterted
Guest
I read where they are going to reduce the number of permits in the Central area by 1,000 and look at moving the rifle hunt to 5 days in 2006.
I would not support either one of those ideas. We have had reduced tags and limited hunt areas for 11 years and they still cry that the deer aren't recovering. Their solution is to hit the hunter, reduce tags and reduce rifle hunting more, increase tag prices. I thought that moving the muzzle loader hunt to be before the rifle hunt was supposed to cure the problem, or was it the fact that you could hunt in the northern part of the state one day and the southern part of the state the next that was the problem? That's right it was the drought, or was it urban sprawl? I have heard so many excuses I can't keep everything straight.
Now add hunter success as a reason.
I find it interesting that it wasn?t too long ago you could shoot three deer a year, over 200,000 tags were given out and the deer were increasing. What changed? The numbers of permits are down from 228,000 to 95,000 so I say the hunter isn't the cause of the decline. Perhaps it is thier count methods....
The UDWR refuses to address the causes of the deer decline-Habitat, Coyotes, Bears, Cougar, Bobcat and soon to be the Wolf.
I would not support either one of those ideas. We have had reduced tags and limited hunt areas for 11 years and they still cry that the deer aren't recovering. Their solution is to hit the hunter, reduce tags and reduce rifle hunting more, increase tag prices. I thought that moving the muzzle loader hunt to be before the rifle hunt was supposed to cure the problem, or was it the fact that you could hunt in the northern part of the state one day and the southern part of the state the next that was the problem? That's right it was the drought, or was it urban sprawl? I have heard so many excuses I can't keep everything straight.
Now add hunter success as a reason.
I find it interesting that it wasn?t too long ago you could shoot three deer a year, over 200,000 tags were given out and the deer were increasing. What changed? The numbers of permits are down from 228,000 to 95,000 so I say the hunter isn't the cause of the decline. Perhaps it is thier count methods....
The UDWR refuses to address the causes of the deer decline-Habitat, Coyotes, Bears, Cougar, Bobcat and soon to be the Wolf.
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,145
KTC,
How are you my friend? Hope all is well with you. You know my feelings on this subject. The people as a majority have spoken. The hard core trophy hunters do not like this increase in tags. I can certainly understand their point of view. I pose a question to you all who are against this increase or increases in general.
Who has more right to hunt these elk? Someone who has 12 bonus points or someone who just turned hunting age with zero points? As it stands now those with 12 points will eventually get their tag. Youngsters just starting out in this debacle we call a point system have no chance of ever getting a tag.
My argument for more tags is in no way intended to decimate our herds. Look at the age classifications from last years harvests. Nearly every unit is 1 year over objective. These units are still producing magnum bulls. Most of the whopper bulls killed last year were 5-6 year old bulls. I hope to see a conservative increase in tags such as this years proposal with the DWR keeping a close eye on the health of the herds. I would submit to you all that most hunters would gladly kill a slightly smaller bull then to never draw and hunt them at all.
One last question, How big were the bulls on these units when you first started applying? I know they were no where near 400 or even 375 for that matter.
We must look to the future and what is best for everyone. If the public says 400 bulls then let it be 400 bulls. For now the public says opportunity and slightly less quality. I hope for your sake KTC that you pull your tag this year and kill a monster. Maybe I will see you at the RAC? I know it does no good but I go and speak out any how. Have a great day!
Chad
How are you my friend? Hope all is well with you. You know my feelings on this subject. The people as a majority have spoken. The hard core trophy hunters do not like this increase in tags. I can certainly understand their point of view. I pose a question to you all who are against this increase or increases in general.
Who has more right to hunt these elk? Someone who has 12 bonus points or someone who just turned hunting age with zero points? As it stands now those with 12 points will eventually get their tag. Youngsters just starting out in this debacle we call a point system have no chance of ever getting a tag.
My argument for more tags is in no way intended to decimate our herds. Look at the age classifications from last years harvests. Nearly every unit is 1 year over objective. These units are still producing magnum bulls. Most of the whopper bulls killed last year were 5-6 year old bulls. I hope to see a conservative increase in tags such as this years proposal with the DWR keeping a close eye on the health of the herds. I would submit to you all that most hunters would gladly kill a slightly smaller bull then to never draw and hunt them at all.
One last question, How big were the bulls on these units when you first started applying? I know they were no where near 400 or even 375 for that matter.
We must look to the future and what is best for everyone. If the public says 400 bulls then let it be 400 bulls. For now the public says opportunity and slightly less quality. I hope for your sake KTC that you pull your tag this year and kill a monster. Maybe I will see you at the RAC? I know it does no good but I go and speak out any how. Have a great day!
Chad
K
ktc
Guest
Hello SS,
To answer your questions. I believe a great bull when I started applying was 300, or a 6 point. Score did not matter or was it really talked about much.
Who has more right to hunt? Me, 12 point people, or youngsters? Well, the answer would be me. However, I would have to say those with more points should get the odds tilted their way as it is. I say this because I was a youngster once and I am still waiting. I have amassed lots of points during my wait. Without the point system you or I may not have or never will draw.
No RAC's for me. We agree. The decisions are made and the modest increase is fair in my opinion.
Slightly smaller bull? Hell buddy I want the biggest one in the state. ;-)
Thanks for the draw well-wishes. I hope I can draw too. My gas tank has ran out and I am running on fumes.
You have a great day also.
To answer your questions. I believe a great bull when I started applying was 300, or a 6 point. Score did not matter or was it really talked about much.
Who has more right to hunt? Me, 12 point people, or youngsters? Well, the answer would be me. However, I would have to say those with more points should get the odds tilted their way as it is. I say this because I was a youngster once and I am still waiting. I have amassed lots of points during my wait. Without the point system you or I may not have or never will draw.
No RAC's for me. We agree. The decisions are made and the modest increase is fair in my opinion.
Slightly smaller bull? Hell buddy I want the biggest one in the state. ;-)
Thanks for the draw well-wishes. I hope I can draw too. My gas tank has ran out and I am running on fumes.
You have a great day also.
S
Silentstalker_work
Guest
Good luck to ya man! If you draw and need some fresh young legs give ma a PM or an e-mail!
As for the point thing, I agree that the odds should be pointed your way! I think more than 50 percent should go to max point holders. But, I guess it does not matter much what I think!
Chad
As for the point thing, I agree that the odds should be pointed your way! I think more than 50 percent should go to max point holders. But, I guess it does not matter much what I think!
Chad
K
ktc
Guest
Thanks SS.
I can always use a good pack animal. ;-)
I can always use a good pack animal. ;-)
B
bobcatbess
Guest
Silentstalker
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG???
A FEW YEARS AGO THEY CHANGED THE GAME A LITTLE!!!
A % OF THE TAGS GO TO THE HIGHEST POINTS HOLDERS!!!(ktc IN MIND!!!)
A % GO TO LESSER POINT HOLDERS INCLUDING YOUNGER HUNTERS!!!
IF WE SET UP A SYSTEM THAT EVERYBODY AGREED WITH IN THE BEGINNING,SHOULDN'T THE HOLDERS OF THE HIGHEST POINTS BE THE GUYS/GALS DRAWING FIRST???
I'LL BE THE FIRST TO AGREE THE YOUNGER HUNTERS NEED OPPORTUNITY TOO,THATS WHERE THE YOUTH BUGLE HUNT COMES IN,NO,NOT EVERY YOUTH CAN HUNT EVERY YEAR,BUT THERE IS OPPORTUNITY!!!
MOST OF YOU GUYS FORGOT WHY THE LE UNITS WERE SET UP!!!
AND THE ANSWER ISN'T SO THE AVERAGE JOE CAN GO HARVEST A RAGHORN!!!
YOU HAPPY WITH A RAGHORN,GO HUNT A RAGHORN UNIT!!!
THESE LE UNITS OUGHT TO BE A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT,IF ME & ktc EVER DRAW ONCE,WE KNOW ITS PRETTY MUCH OVER!!!
NOW FOR YOU WHINE ASSES THAT DRAWED THIS LAST YEAR I'M SURE YOU'LL DISAGREE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF THESE AVERAGE JOES WILL EVER SEE THE LIGHT,THERE IS ALL KINDS OF OPPORTUNITY OUTSIDE THE LE BOUNDARIES!!!
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG???
A FEW YEARS AGO THEY CHANGED THE GAME A LITTLE!!!
A % OF THE TAGS GO TO THE HIGHEST POINTS HOLDERS!!!(ktc IN MIND!!!)
A % GO TO LESSER POINT HOLDERS INCLUDING YOUNGER HUNTERS!!!
IF WE SET UP A SYSTEM THAT EVERYBODY AGREED WITH IN THE BEGINNING,SHOULDN'T THE HOLDERS OF THE HIGHEST POINTS BE THE GUYS/GALS DRAWING FIRST???
I'LL BE THE FIRST TO AGREE THE YOUNGER HUNTERS NEED OPPORTUNITY TOO,THATS WHERE THE YOUTH BUGLE HUNT COMES IN,NO,NOT EVERY YOUTH CAN HUNT EVERY YEAR,BUT THERE IS OPPORTUNITY!!!
MOST OF YOU GUYS FORGOT WHY THE LE UNITS WERE SET UP!!!
AND THE ANSWER ISN'T SO THE AVERAGE JOE CAN GO HARVEST A RAGHORN!!!
YOU HAPPY WITH A RAGHORN,GO HUNT A RAGHORN UNIT!!!
THESE LE UNITS OUGHT TO BE A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT,IF ME & ktc EVER DRAW ONCE,WE KNOW ITS PRETTY MUCH OVER!!!
NOW FOR YOU WHINE ASSES THAT DRAWED THIS LAST YEAR I'M SURE YOU'LL DISAGREE!!!
THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF THESE AVERAGE JOES WILL EVER SEE THE LIGHT,THERE IS ALL KINDS OF OPPORTUNITY OUTSIDE THE LE BOUNDARIES!!!
K
ktc
Guest
Wow! How do you really feel bess?;-) Thanks for going to bat for me though.
Take it easy on SS. He is a pretty good egg. We just don't agree on LE elk tags much.
Take it easy on SS. He is a pretty good egg. We just don't agree on LE elk tags much.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
ktc
THAT IS AS YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL!!!
I'M NOT COMING DOWN ON ss!!!
JUST FIGURED I'D THROW MY .01 IN!!!
GOOD LUCK IN THE DRAW!!!
IF YOU NEED HELP:
PUSHING NASTY CANYONS!!!
DRIVING THICK TIMBER!!!
AN EXTRA FRYING PAN!!!
LET ME KNOW,I'D BE GLAD TO HELP STIR SOME BULLS UP!!!
THE ONLY bobcat CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE LE UNITS!!!
THAT IS AS YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL!!!
I'M NOT COMING DOWN ON ss!!!
JUST FIGURED I'D THROW MY .01 IN!!!
GOOD LUCK IN THE DRAW!!!
IF YOU NEED HELP:
PUSHING NASTY CANYONS!!!
DRIVING THICK TIMBER!!!
AN EXTRA FRYING PAN!!!
LET ME KNOW,I'D BE GLAD TO HELP STIR SOME BULLS UP!!!
THE ONLY bobcat CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE LE UNITS!!!
S
Silentstalker_work
Guest
Bobcat,
You crack me up! How are you today? If you reread my post you will see that I was simply asking questions!?
That being said, Us whiners that drew last year are preaching opportunity. If you go back over the last several years you will see that I have always stood for opportunity. 4 to 5 year old bulls are not raghorns. Go look at some of the bulls posted in the elk forum under Tooth data?!. Most of those big buggers are 6 years old. Heck, I killed a 3 year old bull on the archery that nearly scored 300.
Several years ago and each year they have changed the system. When you started applying a good bull was 300 B/C. The system has changed and so have your expectations. Now every one thinks they need a 400 bull. I in no way say you don't deserve that either. All I am saying is that opportunity can be increased without decimating the herds. I know you don't believe me but that is another story. Good luck to you in the draw and have a great day!
Chad
You crack me up! How are you today? If you reread my post you will see that I was simply asking questions!?
That being said, Us whiners that drew last year are preaching opportunity. If you go back over the last several years you will see that I have always stood for opportunity. 4 to 5 year old bulls are not raghorns. Go look at some of the bulls posted in the elk forum under Tooth data?!. Most of those big buggers are 6 years old. Heck, I killed a 3 year old bull on the archery that nearly scored 300.
Several years ago and each year they have changed the system. When you started applying a good bull was 300 B/C. The system has changed and so have your expectations. Now every one thinks they need a 400 bull. I in no way say you don't deserve that either. All I am saying is that opportunity can be increased without decimating the herds. I know you don't believe me but that is another story. Good luck to you in the draw and have a great day!
Chad
Why is it i dont even live in UT but i hear more of what is going down than you guys. I just got an email from Jack Hill today telling me this Quote " Tuesday March 15th was the regional advisory committees meeting in which
the convention tags issue was heard. It passed with just three dissenting votes.
Mine and two other. Sorry no one wanted to hear the real issue here. any time someone
speaks of millions of dollars ... the battle is over maybe not the war but certainly the battle." unquote
you guys are too late, you should have been emailing and bitching a long time ago about this. Your state now has like 20 times as many conservation tags than the next highest state.
the convention tags issue was heard. It passed with just three dissenting votes.
Mine and two other. Sorry no one wanted to hear the real issue here. any time someone
speaks of millions of dollars ... the battle is over maybe not the war but certainly the battle." unquote
you guys are too late, you should have been emailing and bitching a long time ago about this. Your state now has like 20 times as many conservation tags than the next highest state.
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,145
Schmalts,
We have all e-mailed and contacted all the appropriate individuals. The responses are varied but they all say that money for wildlife takes precidence. It is disgusting what this program has turned into. Utah already has 20 times more Conservation tags than any other state. These RAC's did nothing to help that.
Just a side note. The meeting you are refering to is the 1st of 5 meetings across the state. They have a meeting in each region to discuss the agenda. Then these RAC's present their combined decisions to the wildlife board. The wildlife board then votes on the issues and it goes in the books. I suppose your misunderstanding or arrogance is due to you not knowing how UTAH's RAC process works. The RAC's are really just a formality where we as citizens get to speak our mind. RARELY is our voice ever a deciding factor in anything. I have seen public input for things where the public voted 80-90 percent one way and then the RAC votes directly in contradiction to the public. It is a very frustrating process.
Have a great day.
Chad
We have all e-mailed and contacted all the appropriate individuals. The responses are varied but they all say that money for wildlife takes precidence. It is disgusting what this program has turned into. Utah already has 20 times more Conservation tags than any other state. These RAC's did nothing to help that.
Just a side note. The meeting you are refering to is the 1st of 5 meetings across the state. They have a meeting in each region to discuss the agenda. Then these RAC's present their combined decisions to the wildlife board. The wildlife board then votes on the issues and it goes in the books. I suppose your misunderstanding or arrogance is due to you not knowing how UTAH's RAC process works. The RAC's are really just a formality where we as citizens get to speak our mind. RARELY is our voice ever a deciding factor in anything. I have seen public input for things where the public voted 80-90 percent one way and then the RAC votes directly in contradiction to the public. It is a very frustrating process.
Have a great day.
Chad
B
bobcatbess
Guest
ss
I MIGHT CRACK YOU & MOST PEOPLE UP BUT WHAT I'M SAYING ISN'T FUNNY!!!
A 300 BULL HAS NEVER EXCITED ME!!!
I'VE SEEN A FEW 360"+ BULLS IN MY DAY & I'LL GUARANTEE YOU THEY WEREN'T 4 TO 5 YEAR OLD BULLS!!!
REMEMBER,I'M NOT TALKING RANCH BULLS!!!
IT DON'T HAVE TO BE A 400"+ BULL FOR ME,BUT KNOWING THERES A COUPLE IN AN AREA MAKES ME FEEL THERES "REAL OPPORTUNITY" !!!
IF YOU'RE HAPPY WITH A 300" BULL I DON'T SEE WHY YOU'D WANT TO TAKE THE "REAL OPPORTUNITY" AWAY FROM SOMEBODY TRYING TO HARVEST A 350"+ BULL,REMEMBER,YOU CAN TAKE A 300" BULL IN AN OPEN GENERAL AREA,WHY DO YOU NEED AN LE TAG FOR THAT???
WHAT LE UNIT DID YOU DRAW LAST YEAR???
SEND ME A PM IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ADVERTISED MM WIDE!!!
THANKS FOR WISHING ME LUCK,I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET!!!
THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING THAT 3-4 YEAR OLD BULLS WILL NEVER IMPRESS ME,AND EVEN IF A YOUNG BULL 3-4 YEARS OLD DID IMPRESS ME,WHAT WOULD THE BULL OF BEEN LIKE AT AGE 6-8 YEARS OLD???
I MIGHT CRACK YOU & MOST PEOPLE UP BUT WHAT I'M SAYING ISN'T FUNNY!!!
A 300 BULL HAS NEVER EXCITED ME!!!
I'VE SEEN A FEW 360"+ BULLS IN MY DAY & I'LL GUARANTEE YOU THEY WEREN'T 4 TO 5 YEAR OLD BULLS!!!
REMEMBER,I'M NOT TALKING RANCH BULLS!!!
IT DON'T HAVE TO BE A 400"+ BULL FOR ME,BUT KNOWING THERES A COUPLE IN AN AREA MAKES ME FEEL THERES "REAL OPPORTUNITY" !!!
IF YOU'RE HAPPY WITH A 300" BULL I DON'T SEE WHY YOU'D WANT TO TAKE THE "REAL OPPORTUNITY" AWAY FROM SOMEBODY TRYING TO HARVEST A 350"+ BULL,REMEMBER,YOU CAN TAKE A 300" BULL IN AN OPEN GENERAL AREA,WHY DO YOU NEED AN LE TAG FOR THAT???
WHAT LE UNIT DID YOU DRAW LAST YEAR???
SEND ME A PM IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ADVERTISED MM WIDE!!!
THANKS FOR WISHING ME LUCK,I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET!!!
THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING THAT 3-4 YEAR OLD BULLS WILL NEVER IMPRESS ME,AND EVEN IF A YOUNG BULL 3-4 YEARS OLD DID IMPRESS ME,WHAT WOULD THE BULL OF BEEN LIKE AT AGE 6-8 YEARS OLD???
cantkillathing
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,475
You have got realize that the SFW is supporting the increase of conservation tags as well, they have also supported the idea of increased bull tags, each group, the sfw and the RAC do not listen to the public.
But anyway I don't want to hash out the cons of the groups, but I will also agree with several people that the increase of bull tags was not a great idea, who wants a rag horn bull? I would much rather wait for several more years to draw and get a chance for that 370+ bull than a stinken 300 bull. Not to make fun of those that shoot a 300 bull on a LE, but that was your mistake for shooting one in the first place. Just because someone didn't get the bull they wanted on a LE then they want to open it up for more tags to bring the bull class down to make them feel better about there 300 bull.
And the increase of conservation tags, what a joke, we are turning into the rich man state, if you have the money then you can get your tag.
But anyway I don't want to hash out the cons of the groups, but I will also agree with several people that the increase of bull tags was not a great idea, who wants a rag horn bull? I would much rather wait for several more years to draw and get a chance for that 370+ bull than a stinken 300 bull. Not to make fun of those that shoot a 300 bull on a LE, but that was your mistake for shooting one in the first place. Just because someone didn't get the bull they wanted on a LE then they want to open it up for more tags to bring the bull class down to make them feel better about there 300 bull.
And the increase of conservation tags, what a joke, we are turning into the rich man state, if you have the money then you can get your tag.
K
ktc
Guest
Schmalts,
Whether you like or dislike tag increases or support a wildlife group, this convention is going to happen in my opinion. This is not a legislative vote. The majority vote does not pass or fail these things. You make it sound like Utards did not get off their ass and go to the polls and vote. We did and there is no vote. We complained, sent emails, and made phone calls. A small group is making this decision and I am not one of them.
bess is right. What is up with a 4.5 age class? Sorry guys this is another "you don't have a say vote" and it sucks. Again, that is just an opinion, because I have no say or real vote in the issue. Those with 9,10,11, and 12 points are in the minority. If bull to cow ratios are way out of whack or success rates prove more tags can be given then give them out, but I personally like seeing 6 year old and older bulls shot in the units.
Whether you like or dislike tag increases or support a wildlife group, this convention is going to happen in my opinion. This is not a legislative vote. The majority vote does not pass or fail these things. You make it sound like Utards did not get off their ass and go to the polls and vote. We did and there is no vote. We complained, sent emails, and made phone calls. A small group is making this decision and I am not one of them.
bess is right. What is up with a 4.5 age class? Sorry guys this is another "you don't have a say vote" and it sucks. Again, that is just an opinion, because I have no say or real vote in the issue. Those with 9,10,11, and 12 points are in the minority. If bull to cow ratios are way out of whack or success rates prove more tags can be given then give them out, but I personally like seeing 6 year old and older bulls shot in the units.
S
Silentstalker_work
Guest
Bobcat,
I drew the Manti last year. I saw plenty of big bulls and if I were a bit luckier/ better I probably should of killed a much better bull. I am not complaining about my bull I just had dreams like everyone else about a real monster.
I never said you should get excited about a 3-4 year old bull either. I simply stated that bulls in the 4-5 range are not raghorns. They are also as good or better than what you would have killed the first year you applied. If you want to hunt a 5-6 year old bull apply for a 5-6 year old area. The DWR is caught in the middle of an ugly monster.
The public has spoken out that they want opportunity. So they have created opportunity. There are plenty of bulls that will still fall in the 350 range after these changes. You just might have to hunt a bit harder. I truly do hope you draw and kill a monster. In this discussion we are all selfish. We all want what is best for each of us. I want an opportunity for my kids to hunt. I acknowledge that the size of bulls will go down. But with careful monitoring I believe the trophy class could reach a level where everyone is happy! Have a great day!
Chad
I drew the Manti last year. I saw plenty of big bulls and if I were a bit luckier/ better I probably should of killed a much better bull. I am not complaining about my bull I just had dreams like everyone else about a real monster.
I never said you should get excited about a 3-4 year old bull either. I simply stated that bulls in the 4-5 range are not raghorns. They are also as good or better than what you would have killed the first year you applied. If you want to hunt a 5-6 year old bull apply for a 5-6 year old area. The DWR is caught in the middle of an ugly monster.
The public has spoken out that they want opportunity. So they have created opportunity. There are plenty of bulls that will still fall in the 350 range after these changes. You just might have to hunt a bit harder. I truly do hope you draw and kill a monster. In this discussion we are all selfish. We all want what is best for each of us. I want an opportunity for my kids to hunt. I acknowledge that the size of bulls will go down. But with careful monitoring I believe the trophy class could reach a level where everyone is happy! Have a great day!
Chad
