Randy Bryant, USO ,Seligman AZ

T

TRice

Guest
I haven't been onsite the last month, but I just about fell over when I read all the lies with "USO in Seligman,AZ" today. I was in unit 10 during the elk hunt and all of what Pinyon Boy had to say was a total lie!! I have know Randy for almost 30 years and the things that were said, could not be farther from the truth. I don't agree with USO, but I also don't agree with people making up a bunch of crap, just to fire things up!
Todd Rice
 
Who cares if the man served food to USO clients. I cant stand USO or what they stand for but what was said on the other post is ludacris. A man has to make a living and provide for his family. People tried to praise the companies that pulled sponsorship of USO and tried to trash this man for selling food to clients of USO. I guarantee that if Taulman or any of his clients wanted to buy Realtree camouflage or a Primos call these companies would sell it to them. Its called making a living and we all do it. There is a huge difference between sponsoring a person or a company and selling a service to a person or a company. Some of you guys need to grow up and stop looking at everything with such blind hatred and fury and understand that the problem AZ is in has nothing to do with a cafe owner in Seligman. I hope that I never have to share a campfire with people that would trash a man for making an HONEST living. What a bunch of garbage!

Drummond
 
Huntsonora, you're absolutely right. A man has to make a living and provide for his family. That's probably how Taulman justifies what he's done. Hey and by the way, if I contract with Taulman for a non resident hunt in Arizona, he's just selling me a service right, it's not like I'm sponsoring him or anything. So that would be allright, right? Does that mean you'll welcome me at your campfire? I'd just be helping USO make a living.....
 
I said an "HONEST" living, next time read the whole post. I dont think Taulman or his crew have an honest bone in their body.

Drum
 
This whole thing has gone from boycotting sponsors to a witch hunt.... I agreed with the boycott.. I don't agree with going after some guy running a place to grab a burger.
j-dawg
:)
 
Randy is a good buddy of mine. I haven't read all the crap that has been posted. I've pretty much all but quit this site because of this kind of BS. I'm not sure who is talking about Randy but I'd like to see them say it to his face. I'd also like to be right behind Mr. Bryant when this happens.
 
I don't even know Randy but I agree and would gladly stand behind him also. To get angry at a man for serving peolple at his restaurant and providing for his family is ridiculous. It's a sad statement but these people making stupid accusations seem to be on a witch hunt. Drum hit it on the nose and we should do everything we can, legally and responsibly, to stop USO but people are crossing the line. Too bad people can't figure out the difference.

CPSANDMAN
"The Buck stops here...I hope!"
 
The poison that seems to have invaded this site is quite amazing. You have not only AZ against AZ people, but most are just name calling and blowing hard to make forum members think that they are the real deal. Well, call or go see Randy and talk to him, get the real info. Yes, I live back east, but I totally understand what this USO stink is about, but get a clue about what you are destroying in your witch hunt. It is going to be alot harder to pull together in your fight if you scatter the ones that you will need for this fight upfront with these types of attacks. You can always bring people into the fold with reason, but piss them off and now you are fighting a two or three front war, USO, Hunters your falsely accused and the general public's perception of what you actually want. DRAFTSTUD
 
I would love to have guys like you standing behind me, not! You guys would be the first to run when the real fight started.

Nobody is falsely accusing this place of providing a service to USO. THEY ADMITTED IT. Where do you draw the line. With the place that knowingly served them food, knowing who these guys are, just because they are trying to make a living, or the piss ant guys who rushed AZGF to get their guide licenses in order to sub contract for USO. Where?

This is not a witch hunt. This is merely choosing to do business somewhere else because this place, knowing who these guys were, chose a few bucks over principal.
 
Give me a break. It's not the people that take money out of Taulman's pockets that are the problem. It's the people putting money in his pockets that are the problem.
 
Take an economics class for goodness sake. Where do you think the money comes from that he is spending?
 
What the hell are you talking about. I'm sure on his way from Nevada to AZ, he swung through a McDonald's drive thru, also. So now McDonald's is responsible for keeping USO in business?
I can't stand USO, and I despise them for what they've done, but putting mom & pop resturaunts out of business that have always been good to hunters is crossing the line. I'm sure USO will find a way to feed their clients wether McDonald's will sell them happy meals or not.
 
Another thing. This is no longer just an AZ issue. It has moved to the national level. I stood by AZ hunters when this issue came up. I wrote letter, and made phone calls to all the USO sponsers. I have now wrote to my senators and congressman. We need the support of hunters all over the country. It is not doing any good to come on here and bash all the NR, and alienate everybody that doesn't agree with you. You have to convince people to support something that will give them less opportunity to hunt in your state. And I support it. But some people are going to want to know "what's in it for me". And you better come up with something more intelligent than "stay the hell out of my state" and "hunt in your own damn state". This fight is being carried out in high levels of government, not in a small cafe in BFE, AZ. And that's where our efforts need to go.
 
I just heard Walmart has hired a supporter of PETA to work in their ladies clothing department. I am never letting my wife shop there again!
 
I still don't know how Randy got dragged into this! He wasn't guiding for USO, but for himself. He never has guided for USO and I can tell you never will need to. Brenda has been serving USO in her resturant, even before she started dating Randy!

Stan, I would stand behind Randy also ANYDAY. But I don't think he would need any help!!!!! TR
 
As I said on another thread, why don't these blowhards put their money where their mouth is and not buy a license or tag since the game dept sold George a tag? Boycotting a burger joint or gas station is just assinine but if you're going to boycot these places have the balls to boycott the game dept too.
 
I am sure every buisness person deals with someone they do not like or agree with politically. You have to. Plus, if George sued AZ for discrimination, think he could sue a restaraunt owner who discriminated against him?
 
Thanks to all of you who have stood up for the Bryants. We talk to Randy nearly every day of the week. He doesn't like USO any more than the rest of us. He is pretty good at getting his own clients based on his own hunting record of skill, effort and good service.
This witch hunting has to stop if we are to pull together in the fight against USO and other things that are a threat to hunting.
It is amazing how people jump on the bandwagon without even bothering to check the facts. I guess facts are not important to some. If you talk bad about someone else, it is usually to make yourself look better.
Thanks again all.
Randy and Sally Epperson
[email protected]
 
You guys have got to know that the folks at USO are sitting back and laughing their tails off at this. Divide and Conquer. It's a time tested strategy.
 
Jamaro, you're killing me. 3rd bag of popcorn, does this mean the girlfriends still out of town. If so, better make it with extra butter.
 
Yah... Damn Popcorn... So much for the Atkins Diet.... Nope the girlfriend is playing BINGO tonight... Come on baby get those numbers.... Daddy needs a new set of boots... :)

jason
 
I think most NV and AZ sportsman are willing to overlook a place for serving a few meals. But.. In my opinion the outfitters/guides are dragging their feet in the battle against USO. And against right and wrong. I believe any short term gain will be harshly rewarded. NV and AZ sportsman are seriously piseed off, and its not going to fizzle away. We may not have the $$, but we are seriously motivated now to protect hunting against greed. The F&G are just using this court decision as an excuse to inflate tag prices. There needs to be a compromise/mediation, which may mean its not 10%, but also not a free for all.
 
Like I said... Daddy needs a new pair of boots.... As long as she comes home with money... Looks like I am going to get some Danners...
 
cosa, i thought that maybe i was the only one who was wondering why there is a deafening silence coming from resident outfitters. could it be that maybe they like what's happening because they know it could benefit them too? i've yet to hear one outfitter in Az. say that they don't like what uso did. i hear em defend each other. i hear em say let's all get along. don't jump to conclusions, etc. but i haven't heard one of em come right out and say uso can go to hell and that they wouldn't take any business drummed up by this lawsuit and that they feel that Az. residents should have some kind of preference over nonresidents. sorta starting to stink like maybe some kinda conspiracy. wonder if any other outfitters are silent partners in this deal? can't imagine taulman taking on a deal like this on his own. his legal fees have to be staggering to keep this in court as long as he did. you don't appeal all the way to the U.S. supreme court without a huge cost. don't see where he can recoup his money fast enough to make this is a good deal, fiscally, for himself. i ain't accusing anyone specifically, but he has to have some partners in this deal. wonder who they are? like i say, the sportsmen are to the point of being violent over this deal, but i don't hear a lot, one way or another, from outfitters. especially those with recognizable names and a fairly large clientele. like i said in an earlier post, it's time to get plum away from the fence so both sides know exactly who to shoot at. i'm on the side that uso isn't.
 
We have to be willing to fight over this deal and stick to our guns, even if that means pi**ing a few people off over it. I can just about bet that USO's legal fees were asked for and ordered to be reimbursed by AZG&F since they, USO, were the winning party in this lawsuit. That means that the residents of Arizona will eventually be the ones who pay for it, i.e., taxes, increased fees, decreased services, etc. And yeah little man?, AZ402, I am a real tough guy.
 
i haven't read where there was any money awarded to uso for legal fees. i don't think there usually in, in a deal like this. doesn't mean he won't ask for it later. this suit, supposedly, wasn't so uso could get more tags. tags are awarded to the lucky individuals who's name pops up in the computer, whether resident or nonresident. taulman's idea is that the more nonresident permits there are, the more he gets to rip off, i mean guide. if there is any money awarded to anyone, it'd have to be to all of the individual nonresidents who were theoretically discriminated against. i still think he is behind this landowner/permit deal that the azgfd is looking at now. if that flies, then he would get tags. i guarantee it. and mike and stanley, you guys knock it off. we all live in this state and we oughta all be on the same side o' the fence. to me, only folks that oughta be on the other side o' the fence is uso and his toadies. and in fact, if you ain't all the way over on this side o' the fence, then as far as i'm concerned, you're just an ally of taulman and his pieces of silver. we don't have to be buddies and send each other xmas cards and stuff, but we all hafta have the same big goal. which is keepin' some o' this good huntin' we have, for ourselves. that's why i think this sorta retoric is beneficial. force folks to pick a side. which side ya gonna be on? we can all fight with each other while boy george laughs at us, or we can all whip the hell outta him and keep our differences with each other private and take care of them in a personal way. like i've always said, we're all hunters, we should have some tolerance for each other. taulman is no longer one of us. he crossed the line that their ain't no comin' back from. i think folks that shoot deer over corn are sorta wierd, but by hell they hunt, therefore, i'm on their side. same as nonresidents that want to hunt in Az. go for it dude. hope ya get a tag, but don't come over here and try to make the rules. Arizonans first, in Arizona. same as in your home state. i live by your rules when i hunt there. you live by ours here. 90% of all applicants for elk tags in Az. are disappointed every year. deal with it. there just ain't that much good country here and we can only raise so many o' them big bulls to shoot at. as far as randy bryant, i don't know him, probably will never meet him, if he's a good guy, fine. if he ain't, well then that's another story. too bad that he got drug into this for sur. but if we can all come to some sorta concensus because he got drug in the mud a little, then it was probably worth it, to him and us. and i still don't hear anything from other outfitters. what's up with that?
 
RLH, Taulman appealed the ruling all the way to the United States Supreme Court?? I'am surprised they would even hear such a case!
 
sho' nuf. he lost at at least one level and appealed it to the 9th court of appeals and won there. i think it was actually the Az. game and fish that appealed it to the U.S. supreme court, but it did go to that level. they refused to rule on it, sent it back down and some federal judge made the decision that stopped the drawing. i don't know the exact protocol for this crap. ain't a lawyer. i have a more honorable occupation. i'm a wino child molester. i don't know if the judge that did it is on the 9th court of appeals or if he's a federal judge at some lower level or what the hell the deal is. but it went from the lowest level to the highest and he had to retain counsel throughout the entire process.
 
A few months ago there was an outfitter on this site saying that what happen was a real mess and how pi$$ed he was... I challenged him not to take any more NR Hunters.. He back-tracked like a little wusss...

All outfitters are happy that this happened.. They just don't have the nads to stand up... They are going to let USO take the heat.

j-
 
i have absolutely no problem with outfitters guiding nonresident hunters. they couldn't stay in business without em. i have absolutely no problem with nonresidents getting a permit and hunting, as long as it's by our rules. what i wanna know is who is in bed with taulman on this deal? i can't see him going it alone. he's too much of a tightwad and i don't see how any one guy could take that much financial burden without bankrupting himself and why one guy would take the abuse that he's gonna take over this, if he wasn't makin' out real well at the bank. i have a hard time believing that there aren't other outfitters affiliated with this deal. so far, none of em seem to want to comment much and the comments they do make stay pretty close to the fence.
 
I have noooo problem playing by "your rules", as long as you only hunt STATE LAND. If anybody sees that there is money to be made then I sure they would consider the financial hit as an investment.
Sure there are probably other outfitters pitching in... LET THE WITCH HUNT BEGIN!!!! Start naming outfittes.. All outfitters that increase the total number of NR hunters are to blame.. they are benefiting right?



j-dawg
:)
 
This is way off the subject but Arizona Game and Fish dept had to pay all of USO's lawyer bills and court costs so he was out no money to fight here in Arizona
 
RLH

Many of the people who post on this site are guides from AZ, myself included. On this thread alone there are at least four AZ guides. I can assure you that close to 100% of the guides from AZ are against what George and USO did and no amount of future income will change that. Everyone of us would rather have a bull elk tag in AZ than guide a bull elk hunt, period and we understand how this could hurt the future of hunting.

Chris Denham
 
That combined with the fact that the guides in AZ could charge a little bit more due to the high demand of the permits and the quality of animals hunted. When the demand and quality go down so will the prices for the hunts so these outfitters will actually be working harder to make the same amount of money. Any outfitter in AZ that has put in any thought to the future does not want the situation to stay the same. Remember, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered and USO is nothing more than greedy hogs, their day will come.

Drummond
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Conservation Force/The Hunting Report originally part of the USO suit ?

Agreeing to endorsing and financial backing of the suit ?

And which one talked the Senator from Florida to throw such
a fit over S2978 it had to be pulled from the appropriations bill ?

Taulman still has money behind him, He does not care about local outfitters or the local sportsman.

He will continue to have the rich shooter.

How pathetic is that.
 
918_mike

Come look me up anytime and see how little I am.
Stan Durkalec
928-634-7420
928-301-6702 I live in Cottonwood Arizona. Anytime you want to meat just let me know.................
 
I come up through Cottonwood a couple times a year. I'd be glad to "meat" you, you illiterate idiot!
 
I ditto what Muley 62 expressed in his post. I know lots of the top guides and outfitters here in AZ and have talked to many of them regarding this issue. Virtually NONE of them are in favor of what has transpired over the last several months regarding the USO v. G & F issue. Not sure where Jamarro and others are getting their info. or if he is just surmising that since he has'nt seen any posts from AZ guides or outfitters they must be financing Taulman and his efforts. WRONG. Been outfitting and guiding here in AZ myself for 20 + yrs. I personally don't know any guide here in AZ in favor of this fiasco. Like Chris said we'd all rather have a tag in our pockets than the greenbacks made from guiding.
Wetmule
 
Mike you clown, I'm well aware of the difference between "meat" and meet. Obviously your the idiot; and haven't been around to many athletes or you'd know what "meat" means you tool. Make sure you keep those numbers handy when you pass through the Verde Valley. I just hope you don't challenge me to a spelling bee.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-04 AT 08:47PM (MST)[p]Well, since I'm not famialr with Florida senators, how about a name? How can one senator defeat the minority leader's bill. Keep the PRESSURE on. Maybe we should all start applying for Florida alligator permits next year, of course with no-non resident quota. It's all about money.
The way to defeat this whole thing, is to make non resident tag prices the same as resident tag prices, that is discrimination too! I bet USO and the F&G agencies would be whistling a whole different tune! I think this is wrong and residents should have priority. But a free for the all for the rich should be a free for all for the avg. sportsman as well. How come USO did not argue that charging non res. higher prices was discrimnatory? Because this whole mess is about $$$$$$$$$$$ period.
 
Chris,

I am fairly positive that there are quite a few folks here that would like to "meat" him and thats why he disabled his profile. I would also have to think that this guy is probably 5'6" or so and weighs around 120lbs so he feels the need to talk a big game. Thats the case 90% of the time.
I wish that the uneducated and misinformed would just crawl under a rock and go away. They have no idea what they are doing and ruin honest people due to their blind hatred and rage.

Drum
 
Of course they are going to say they don't support USO... Do you really think they would come out and say... "Hey this is going to make us rich?" Again... I challenge ANY outfitter to turn away business... When a NR draws turn them away and say... "Sorry we don't agee with what USO did and will not take any additional hunters..."
 
The problem with that train of thought is that somebody will eventually take them hunting. I would much rather have these guys hunting with somebody that has the best interest of the wildlife at heart and will hold these guys off of the younger animals. There are some very reputable outfitters and guides in the state of AZ that would do just that, in fact there are a few of the best responding in this very thread. If the money is going to be spent then I hope it is spent with the guys that truly have a passion for the animals being hunted, not some nickle and dime operation that does not care about the animals and is just trying to turn a quick buck. In the long run this will hurt much more. I understand what you are wanting to accomplish by your request but if there are more and more people in the field then I for one would feel a lot better if they are hunting with the best AZ has to offer, not some wannabe hero that has nothing else to do.

Drum
 
I am thinking of buying a portable popcorn machine that can be moved from different hunting forums throughout the U.S...

I kinda like the new mossy oak break up model but I perfer real tree hd grey. Thought about scent-lok and scentblocker, but I think the real popcorn smell needs to get out.

Saw a couple bucks the other day that usta be friends just givin the antlers heck.

Like to cash in on all this energy while everyone is still in the rut.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
warbird, where did you read that? i've tried to stay halfway informed on this whole deal and i've never seen where reparations were a part of it. did i miss it? i don't doubt he'll try to get it, but this thing is far from over and he ain't done yet. how much was it? if there was a payoff, then there oughta be a record of who it went to. has to be a paper trail somewhere. i can't imagine anyone dumb enough to give him money without a reciept, because there ain't no way he'd pay anyone back on principal (as in honor). ok, so far i see where 2 guides say they ain't involved in this and don't agree with it. no offense either, but they're 2 guides i have no knowledge of. what about the big boys? where they at? where's the guys with the big adds in the magazines and websites and high profiles? and with their own "hunter pools"? still seems real quiet to me. and mike and stan still wanna whup up on each other. dang guys. when the big fight starts, you're gonna be smackin' each other around while the rest of us are over whuppin' on uso. lets beat uso first, then you can beat on each other.
 
Warbirds words seem reasonable to me. Often the loser in the case (as in AZ Dept of F&G) would have to pay Taulmans costs. Now that being said...I would surmise that the proposed tag and license increases would be for trying to recoup some of the States losses, NOT for some of the reasons that I've been reading here on MM.
 
chrip... chrip. chrip... all I hear is crickets... Nobody is stepping up.... It does not even have to be outfitters.. It can be guides.... If you think the average resident has management in mind think again.. They have the mentality if it is "Brown it is Down". You NR hunters are going to be much more selective.. Who wants to spend 3,000-9,000 for a meat bull. They want a monster.

j-
 
Do you guys think that every guide in Az is sitting at their computer waiting to respond to this ridiculous conversations? There are AZ five guides that I know of on this thread alone that have stated that they are opposed to the lawsuit! Who are the "big boys" you keep refering to? Have you ever seen them post on this site? Most guides actually go hunting in the fall.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-04 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p] Chris are you going to make the commission meetings this weekend? I'll most likely be at the Saturday session. I have a feeling that there are several people on this thread alone (IE.the ones whining) who can make it but won't.
 
Is all the hostility towards guides on this forum just a microcosm of the changing perception the general public has towards guides and outfitters? Two of my friends were in that restaurant when Taulman walked in. Neither of them have anything to gain by bashing the restaurant or an individual involved with Taulman. They were simply disturbed by what they saw and heard and openly stated it. There's a huge difference between serving Taulman at a drive thru McDonalds and essentially partnering with him to serve his clients and guides! Last time I checked this was still a free country and I will choose where and how to spend my dollars as I see fit.
I agree w/ Jamaro that very few guides have stepped up and denounced USO's actions. Most of the few who have only guide part time and have a "real" job. To the rest of them Taulman's actions mean more work from out of state clients. More opportunities to whore out Arizona's quality game. I have some advice to all the guides on this thread who are defending the actions of there own. Don't even so much as get downwind of Taulman and let his stench stick to you. Things are getting ugly.

AZ402 you are a perfect example of why public opinion towards guides is deteriorating.

My first and last post which I'm sure will make most of you very happy.
 
Actually, AZ402 is one of the bright spots in the hunting industry in AZ. I have names and numbers of people that have hunted with him in the past that will attest to the same thing. Nuts and bolts of this whole thing is that the people that allow their emotions get the best of them are fighting a fight based on those emotions and not on the cold hard facts. The result is a witch hunt much like we see here. I guarantee the ANTIs love this.

Drum
 
You keep howling WITCH HUNT! You seem to know everything, so how's about clearing up all the confusion and speculation, and list names and phone numbers of guides who worked in ANY capacity for Taulman this year, or any year in the past. I expect I'll hear the same crickets jamaro hears. This ain't a witch hunt boys, we just need to identify who's profiteering from a bad situation. We'll find out who they are eventually.
 
Cosa, J Dog, RLH,
Why don't you tell us exactly who these so called big boys are that you want to hear from? I would venture to say that 95% of AZ guides and outfitters are all part time with other means of income. AZ is not a big outfitting state like WYO, Mont. etc. We also don't have vast expanses of private ground like Utah for outfitters to lease.We also have extremely limited permits as you know. The industry here is small time compared to some of the other states. All the guides and outfitters I know do it because they love to get out, they love to hunt, they like hunting with good people and yeah they even make a little money at it. As I said earlier I think they would all take a permit over a paying client anyday. I've been at most of the Commission meetings actively and agressively fighting against USO and trying to protect Resident hunting rights. I know of many other guides that have done the same and have been at alot of the Commish meetings agressively fighting against Taulman. So before you get your panties all in a bunch, not that they aren't all wadded up already, why don't you tell us exactly who you want to hear from and we'll see if we can oblige you? Like Chris said I'm sure they are all sitting back watching this from their monitors and remaining silent for whatever reason. Right. The whole hunting world does not revolve around Monster Muleys.com hunting forums, I'm sure 90% of AZ guides and outfitter don't know you exist.
 
I have a better idea for those that want to hear from the Big Boys. You said you've seen their ads and websites their information is also readily available on the G & F website. If you are so interested in what they have to say why don't you contact them directly.
 
My name is Mike Robertson, I'm a 26 year old former Marine from Yuma. I'm not 5'6" 120, I'm 5'11" 190 (been eating good since I got out). Native Arizonan. Served 13 months in Afghanistan, chasing rags on mules. Currently working construction. I believe I've earned the right to free speech and to debate what I believe is right even though someone else disagrees. I've never killed a Booner buck or bull but hope to someday.
 
OK, one more.

Sonora, one fat, happy out of state client does not a bright spot make!

Police your own gentlemen. If not the jury of public opinion will do it for you. If you want to call that a witch hunt then so be it.
 
tinaja

You don't get it! The vast majority of guides in AZ agree with you and condemn what USO has done. Can I say it differently? You say "police your own", Taulman didn't violate the law, he re-wrote it and that is what we are pissed off about.

Stan: No I won't be able to make it, got a sheep hunt that neds to get finished with a resident of AZ.
 
dang, i didn't mean to start a civil war. as far as "big boys" you tell me who they are. i have a few guys in mind, but i ain't gonna accuse em without some evidence. this randy bryant guy getting bashed around here is bad enough. but the few i have in mind, i'd be suprised if there wasn't some afilliation or collusion somewhere along the line. what i'd like to see is who is really against this stuff. we all know who is and isn't well healed in the guiding business. i think there is a real silence coming from that direction. just wondering why. and i don't have a problem with an outfitter who profits from this. except uso, that is. the azgfd lost and taulman won. the more business that Az. guides take from him, the better. these percieved nonresident hunters aren't required to contract uso. they can hire whoever they want. hope everyone of em hire Az. outfitters. if they ain't affiliated with uso, somehow. what i wanna know is if there were any other outfitters in on this deal. did anyone else contribute to taulman's fund? Az. resident or not. i can't fathom him taking this on alone. all this "witch hunt" stuff ain't much help either. the thing about a witch hunt or snake hunt or whatever you wanna call it, is that they usually turn up a snake or witch or 2. to me, as soon as somebody starts callin' "witch hunt" or hollerin' "nazi", then they lose most of their credibilty with me. just like folks that are hollerin' "witch" or "snake" with no proof. it's just an easy way out. it's pretty apparent that most outfitters who are Az. residents are on the same side o' the fence as the rest of us good guys. but what about the ones that ain't? somebody wrote that 95% were against what happened. man, that's great. but who are the other 5%? it's hard to fight any enemy that stays in the dark and doesn't let ya ever see him. we can't turn this into a hunter/outfitter fight either. we gotta all fight the bad guys. just need to figure out who all the bad guys are, first.
 
This is sad. Guys basically ready to whip on each other and if you were guiding and read this you would NEVER admit you worked for USO! I don't know Randy from squat but if I had this kind of crap flying you can bet I would get one of my buddies who are on here defending me to let me use his/her computer to defend my business. This whole thing is wierd and it has us in a bad place as hunters. These guys will never get found out unless someone saw them in the feild at a USO camp. It is unfortunate but if the law doesn't get changed back and the residents get a fair shake there will be no guiding. There will be a ballot measure outlawing it with 99% of the state supporting including hunters, peta, grammas and greenies. We need to stop this fighting inside now and see what we can get done to support Reid's bill as a united group. THIS SUCKS!!!
 
Good luck RLH in finding the guides, outfitters that support USO. For one I don't think they exist, if they did I don't think they would be man enough to come forward. Secondly, if there are any I think they are few and far between. Thirdly, there is a world outside of M.M. and probably 95% of AZ guides and outfitters don't even visit this site and don't even know there is discussion about this going on. If you want to find them you are going to have to seek them out, they aren't going to be knockin on your door for the simple reason they don't come here. Like I said earlier I know quite a few guides and outfitters here in AZ and none of them are in favor of USO and what that (steaming pile of crap) to steal a line from Antlerboy, did to the hunting world. I however, don't know all the guides and outfitters here so maybe you can find a few, I just personally don't know any. The ones I do know have been actively fighting against what USO did. Can't Splain it any clearer than that. I'm on your side. I do agree with Glen that we all better get on the same page as hunters and get united. With all the lies and innuendo that flies around this site and all the members that I've seen posts from that have said "I'm outta here" I'm surprised there's anyone left to talk to.
 
The visable or invisible rage on this site of AZ guides is completely irrelevant. Guides take all comers, res and NR, always have it's their trade. All turning out the NR hunters would do is push that biz to USO, which would be retarded. Even if some of them are thinking after this suit.. "hey I'll get a few more NR clients than I used to." So what. The law IS. It's DONE. Their feeling of satisfaction or lack of it means nothing. I appreciate desiring to support or fail to, those sharing your like mind and you should do so. Before hiring a guide ask them about this situation and don't patronize folks you disagree with.

That being said. The issue for hunters in AZ and everywhere else is that there isn't a hunter's lobby. Don't be mistaken into thinking that NRA is a hunters lobby it isn't and never was. Hunters are probably the largest group of folks in this country to which public policy affects their very lifestyle (negatively) that haven't embraced the idea of ORGANIZING. Hunters need a PAC. Hunters for Hunters and their rights.

All the yammering about a restaurant, one individual guide etc... fine but won't make one hill of beans to NV or MT or the next state facing down this crap. Only thousands of hunters plunking down a $100 Membership to their PAC that solicits hunting supply businesses, guides, arms co's and the like for money in exhange for endorsement will lead to what it takes to win here. It takes $ and #'s. Hunters need to organize, yesterday. If we do this there's a chance of both protecting our rights and reversing some of our recent losses, fail to and seasons will shrink, costs will increase and methods will be restricted.

You can't defeat the 9th circuit court pissing on Lilo's. Even if that's a reasonable position to hold (not saying it is). Focus fire where it belongs. Collect enough bodies and enough $ to be listened to. Fail to and you may as well shut the hell up right now.

How many times have folks reported here what happened at an AZFG dept meeting with a side note of there were 3 of us there.... Pointless. I have neither the time or money required to start such a venture. But somewhere someone with both time and money has a calling. I'm hoping they'll accept it, ant my membership dues.
 
I think what tinaja means by "police your own" is not law violations, but exposing guides who still work for Taulman.

I know one name, he was on the first episode of Taulman's garbage TV show this season, guiding an elk hunt. He lives in Flagstaff. Hint, hint. Come on guys, names and numbers!
 
Guides??? Hmmmmm. Peg Leg Smith, Roulon Jones, Claude Dallas, Will Clark,Peter French, Otis Sistrunk, George Strait, George Bush. Go get em! Get er done. Arse kicking tonight. Give me another shot of tequilla. Some of you guys have way too much time on your hands. Good luck with the battle but,punish a few guides who are trying to ekk out a living?
 
What state are you from? I am from Nevada. So maybe it hits home a little more when your 1 of the 2 out of 50 states being targeted (just because our wildlife agencies/sporstman are actually concerned with quality vs. quanity). As a resident I draw a deer tag aprox. every 3 years. Since Nevada is located next to the most highest populated, one of the highest income, and one of the worst quality hunting states (sorry, CA), what do you think my chances of me or fellow Nevadans drawing a tag in our home state are now? Maybe every 6 years? And to say that the state's are raising non resident tag fees to pay Taulman back is plain wrong. Unless you are a USO supporter, or are very rich, you should be agreeing with me on the money part of the issue whether you support non res. caps or not.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-04 AT 08:12PM (MST)[p]What is the fair quota for non residents in a state like NV or AZ, where residents have hard time drawing tags? Residents will probablly say 10%, and non residents up to 20-25%. So split the difference at 15-17.5%. I think that is a fair compromise. If Taulman would have asked for this after he won the final the lawsuit, (yeah I know AZ F&G would not compromise after the first loss, but that is not the avg. sportsman's problem)instead of "the horse is out of the barn" philosophy, I think he probabbly would not be losing his business, and residents of NV and AZ may have been upset, but not the outrage we our feeling now!
 
Colville hit the nail directly on the head about turning this sitution around. Cosa had a few good points as well, Yes! Cosa I am from that neighbor state to the West of you.
The only problem will be that the marjority of the hotheads on this site, who have expressed their displeasure with certain persons and NR hunters in general, are usually the ones who also blow alot of hot wind when it comes down to doing something constructive like forming a grass roots colition of hunters to protect their right to hunt and to see that good laws are enacted to promote their sport.
The hunters in Arizona and Nevada, since they are most effected by the lawsuit, need to organize into a group large enought and vocal enought to force changes. But I am willing to bet that 90 % of the hotheads will not be there with their wallet and their voice, except to blow hot wind and wine about how they got screwed over.

RELH
 
Guys,
long thread here and many of you seem to have a ax to grind,My name is Rick Garrison and I have a outfitter and Guide service, I am not one of your big guys some of you are looking for,I have a small client base of about 25 hunters that use my service all resident, I have been doing this for 25 years only five of which has been professionally w/liscense, 20 as a non-licensed guide for no pay, I do not support anything that has the hint of uso and never have,I beleive it is a travesty for what they have created in our state.I am not a full time guide service as I have a full time job as a supervisor at one of the southwest largest construction and component yards for residential home building so it keeps me too busy to devote all of my time to my guide service, I guided 8 clients this year again all residents and in the 5 years of service I have only had 1 non-resident client,I personally don,t post on here alot and I don,t advertise on here as I beleive this is not the place and for respect to brian and his site, I have been using this site for a couple of years now and enjoy the forums, The people on here are very informative and in many cases I get a good laugh it is a fun site, but guys as was posted above we need not argue and betray each other in this fight to do away with USO,I know of no guides and outfitters in AZ personally that has anything to do with USO and thier kind and I don,t believe they are wringing their hands with anticipation of gaining anything from these results, to beat this guy at his own game we need to stick together and devise a plan to defeat USO not each other,I don,t know what that plan would be but together I think with this much talent on the site we could do better than what we are doing now,There is no fence straddleing from here and I am on your side of the fence not USO's, havent typed this much in years,

Thanks for letting me be part of this
Rick Garrison
ALL-G's Outfitters and Guide Service
aka
Tagline
 
Rick-Thanks for that. What is your area and specialty? I havent used a guide for a few years but I feel we need to support the AZ guides in all this as long as they don't support Taulman. I bet most of his guides were newbies that bit on his offer. Maybe we need to restrict qualifications for our guides license to someone who knows to have the arrow loaded with the pointy end out.
 
Here's an idea. Every one of you who wants to know what guides in AZ are supporting Georgie need to pick up a copy of the current regulations, flip through and write down the name and number of all the guides advertising for services in AZ, NM, and other nearby states, call them, and ask them directly. If you have the time to come on here and complain that nobody is fessing up, take the time to contact them directly, then report back to us. And don't tell me I'm the one who should do it, because I'm not the one who is wondering about it. Is McClendon one of the big boys you want to hear from?
 
Don't know about Arizona, but Nevada has a list of their Master Guide List and Subguides. The copy I have is for 2002-2003.
It lists the Subguides and who is Master Guide 1,2 & 3 (who he guides for I am guessing).

Brian
 
I have been guiding in Arizona for ten years. AZ native born and raised, hunted here since I was tagging along with the ol man since I was three. My partner and I have an Ad in Western Optics Hunter magazine, we are Flat Iron Outfitters, Formerly Skyline for the past 7 years or so. Maybe Not a "BIG GUY," in the industry I dont know what makes an Outfitter or Guide a BIG guy but we do business with Res and NR alike. I have four children two hunt along with my wife "when" they can draw some type of tag! My self included. Ask George himself what I have said to him. It wasnt friendly Ill just leave it at that. I am on the Board of directors for the AZ deer Assoc, my goals are in the best interests of Arizonas wildlife first, Residents 2nd and then on down the line. I don't make a living off of being a guide I have a full time Job because it is kinda tough to ensure a retirement off being an outfitter at least in AZ.
I, My partner and guides that work with us are against Taulman and any one like him. I myself took three Elk hunters this year. One was a non resident from California he's posted here on the site before. Stand up guy who is an actual hunter and not a closet hunter with money bags. I am not going to turn away a non resident hunter if I can accomodate them, just to give more business to USO. I am trying to change USO's image to let the average client see the difference in USO and what we offer as reputable guides, non law breakers so on and so forth. Do not expect any appologies from me for doing what I love to do. Am I against the court ruling? You bet I am. SO before you go and start accusing AZ guides of being alligned with USO because they make a few pesos here and there remember Alot of us are fighting for you. AZ 402, muley 62 and several others here are good people, the warbird, Bura and Sonora the list goes on, I know sevarl of them personally and know what they stand for don't lump us into the same pot of gaarbage that Taulman is in. This is ugly to say the least. You wanted me to personally say im against taulman, you got it right here . want to hear me say it come up and ask me or call us. As far as starting fights with someone on the internet is kinda stupid when you dont know them or anything about them except their Point of view, But you should expect some kind of response from any of the people here, when you attack them or their notoriety, cause I dont know too many hunting types that arent up for a scrap if attacked one way or the other, So chill out Marine. I hope this stands for a public notice for those who wanted it.
And quit picking on us guys that are 506 and 120 pounds..
bugler
 
This whole post is counter productive bashing each other and AZ Guides. #1 USO had their attorney fees paid for by AZGFD to the tune of around 300,000.00 from all that I have heard. #2 I know alot of guides/outfitters in AZ and can say I have not had one of them support USO, they have all been against the ruling. #3 I dont know how to determine which guides are big or small but for names, Duwane Adams, Kirk Kelso, Jay Gates, Dave Howell, Chris Denham, Kevin Harris, J.D. Pepper, Pete Cimellaro, Mark Bool, are all guides or outfitters that I know and they DO NOT SUPPORT USO. As for this quasi-conspiracy theory, dont forget that USO solicited funds from its own customer base to continue the 9th circuit fight. In addition to this, I doubt any AZ guide/outfitter would turn down non-resident business. Its part of what they do, and I think anyone who feels AZ guides should turn down non-res hunters has their head up there behind. You cannot ask guides to quit making a living, they did not ask for this. Guiding resident or non-resident hunters isnt the issue. The issue is how USO changed the law in the 9th circuit and the implications for resident hunters draw chances. AZ had low draw percentages prior to this ruling and now its even worse. Its hard to keep people involved in water projects, fundraisers, clean up projects etc....if they have a low chance of ever drawing a tag to hunt. Without the local support and money from residents, the AZGFD will have an even more difficult time in managing wildlife........I think we all need to quit fighting each other and band together in the wildlifes best interest......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Well said and thanks Allen. This is just an ugly time and high in emotion. You are right that most of us have been enjoying a good fight all our lives and that is just who we are. I hope we can get this turned around and all volunteer, kill some lions and yotes and see this state become the envy of all who enjoy hunting. As for me I am outta here.
 
Well, I see challenging those to call the outfitters they want answers from has shut people up, or they are actually busy calling. But I doubt it.
 
The only outfitter that I know that deals with USO is AWO (Not Don Martins outfit, he is certainly anti-USO like 99.9%of all the other hunters/outfitters in AZ). I know a bunch of the outfitters in Northern and Central AZ, not one of them is at all in favor of the USO deal.
 
I sending Randy a bunch of the "Say NO To Greedy Outfitters, NO TO USO" bumperstickers, and a few T-shirts that say the same. This way he can put the bumper sticker on his truck and wear the shirt, and no one should have any more questions. Hope this helps clear up the situation.
 

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