Rifle Tech???

Bigwiffy

Very Active Member
Messages
1,603
Can someone explain to me what this is? And why are we talking about recurve bows, muzzy scopes, shed hunting, bait and trail cams??? Logic only please.....I know it's hard.
Screenshot_20240108_152943_Chrome.jpg
 
I Know A Guy That Has a 50 That Was Built To Look Like A Regular Rifle!

I Packed It For Him A Half A Day For Back-Up & Had All Of It I Wanted!

SOB Was Like 38 lbs!
 
Not sure why we always point to the extremes as an example of what guys are using. My guess is that way less than one tenth of one percent of the "hunters" use something like that.
What's your guess WIffy? Six guys in the whole State use something like that on the hunt?

I do agree that a lot of this has gotten out of hand 🐶

Zeke
 
Not sure why we always point to the extremes as an example of what guys are using. My guess is that way less than one tenth of one percent of the "hunters" use something like that.
What's your guess WIffy? Six guys in the whole State use something like that on the hunt?

I do agree that a lot of this has gotten out of hand 🐶

Zeke
I have no idea on that type of setup. I do know the majority of guys I associate with that rifle hunt have all built long range custom guns. In fact I don't know one that doesn't shoot a custom made gun. Why wouldn't they, not shaming them by any means. I also don't know a lot of people nor do I care to so take that for what it's worth. I guess what gets my size 64 tighty whities in a bunch is that gun pictured above is legal (other than maybe electronics in the scope?) and we are banning bait, trail cams, restricting muzzys, and talking about recurve bows on units.

Doesn't make logical sense does it?
 
I've always thought of it in reverse. If I were a dyed in the wool muzzy or bow hunter, and advancements in tech made the success rates go up, and thus the permit allocations down, I'd be pissed. As a rifle hunter, I don't really see rifle success rates going up due to long range rigs- so I really don't care too much.
 
I've always thought of it in reverse. If I were a dyed in the wool muzzy or bow hunter, and advancements in tech made the success rates go up, and thus the permit allocations down, I'd be pissed. As a rifle hunter, I don't really see rifle success rates going up due to long range rigs- so I really don't care too much.
A rifle by far has the highest success rate of the weapons. (that means they kill the most animals and are given the most tags) Have you missed the steady tag cuts and lost opportunity over the last 30+ years? Yet archery and muzzy restrictions have gone in place before any impactful rifle restrictions?

When are the rifle restrictions coming? We had to get ahead of the tech of archery and muzzy from what the talking heads have told us. Is that gun in the pic not advanced tech enough to get ahead of? 😆
 
rifle by far has the highest success rate of the weapons. (that means they kill the most animals and are given the most tags)
True enough. I just don't believe the success rates of rifle hunters is improved much if any by those weapons. I think maybe 10% of hunters have 'em, and 10% of those can effectively use 'em.
 
A rifle by far has the highest success rate of the weapons. (that means they kill the most animals and are given the most tags) Have you missed the steady tag cuts and lost opportunity over the last 30+ years? Yet archery and muzzy restrictions have gone in place before any impactful rifle restrictions?

When are the rifle restrictions coming? We had to get ahead of the tech of archery and muzzy from what the talking heads have told us. Is that gun in the pic not advanced tech enough to get ahead of? 😆
I said in the beginning and as soon as muzzy restriction discussions were made public it WAS a move to save Deer,
for about 21 days.
 
10% In DRATville?

Notta!

It's Big Competition Here To See Who's Got The BIGGEST BADDEST Rifle!

That's Kinda Like Saying Only 10% Of SmokePolers Had High Power Scopes!

True enough. I just don't believe the success rates of rifle hunters is improved much if any by those weapons. I think maybe 10% of hunters have 'em, and 10% of those can effectively use 'em.
 
Wiffy,
Remember I've been against all the same things as you even if it had no impact on me either way.

Sure, Lots of guys have "custom" rifles but damn few shoot them enough to be any good anyway, IMHO.

I agree with what was said above: 10% have them (custom rifles) and 10% of them know what to do with them.

Zeke
 
A few years ago I was glassing a 150 class buck at 800 yards away during the rifle hunt. I decided he wasn't a buck I wanted to shoot, and there wasn't a good way to get closer anyhow. As I was watching him I heard a shot, and saw him react. He had been gut shot. Another shot rang out and spined him in the rear end. He slid down the hill and slowly died over the next 10 minutes. A short time later I came across the guy who shot it. He was proud of his "908 yard" shot. I asked him how much wind correction he had dialed at that distance, and he looked at me confused. "None" he said. I explained to him that was why he missed his target by 2 feet and hit that buck in the gut and in the ass.

Technology has come a long way for all weapon types. Back in the 90's you would never hear of a guy attempting a 908 yard shot on a deer, but now it's pretty common. I remember when 60 yards was a really long shot for a bow and arrow. And muzzleloaders were good to 100 yards because that's how far you could see with iron sights.

Some people argue how its too easy for hunters to kill a deer with a modern muzzleloader. But at the same time they line up for the limited-entry hunts that restrict tag numbers...in order to make it easier for the lucky few to kill a deer. Easy for me = good. Easy for you = bad.
 
Zeke Said:

Sure, Lots of guys have "custom" rifles but damn few shoot them enough to be any good anyway, IMHO.

And I Agree With That Wondering How Many Animals Are Wounded By Lazy ASSSHoles Too Lazy To Go Look For Blood?

3 Years Ago We Ran Into A Hunter On An LE Elk Hunt That Shot A Bull!

Said He Shot 13 Rounds At The Bull Before He Put Him Down!

3 Points Were Shot Off!

Would Them 3 Shots Be Considered Misses?

Then He Was BRAGGING He'd Shot At 2 Other Bulls The Day Before That Were Across A Big Canyon & Shot A Box Of Bullets At Them 2 Bulls!

You Think He Hiked Over To Look For Blood?

I Asked Him If He Did?

He Was Quick To Reply He Was POSITIVE He Didn't Hit Either One Of Them!

F'N Eh!
 
Last edited:
Zeke Said:

Sure, Lots of guys have "custom" rifles but damn few shoot them enough to be any good anyway, IMHO.

And I Agree With That Wondering How Many Animals Are Wounded By Lazy ASSSHoles Too Lazy To Go Look For Blood?

3 Years Ago We Ran Into A Hunter On An LE Elk Hunt That Shot A Bull!

Said He Shot 13 Rounds At The Bull Before He Put Him Down!

3 Points Were Shot Off!

Would Them 3 Shots Be Considered Misses?

Then He Was BRAGGING He'd Shot At 2 Other Bulls The Day Before That Were Across A Big Canyon & Shot A Box Of Bullets At Them 2 Bulls!

You Think He Hiked Over To Look For Blood?

I Asked Him If He Did?

He Was Quick To Reply He Was POSITIVE He Didn't Hit Either One Of Them!

F'N Eh!
Well said Elk, I'm sure it happens.
I'm also sure it has happened long before the LR craze and will continue until the end of hunting. Many if not most guys are pretty lazy.
Zeke
 
I agree, tech has come way far for all weapons, but rifles it is kinda ridiculous. If you have solid shooting fundamentals, an average factory rifle and a scope that dials correctly and a range finder, 500 yard shots are not difficult, then those get stretched out… all of a sudden lots of guys are slining lead at 7-8-900 yards. It’s a joke. Not to mention the guys out there, very few but there are some who can consistently hit out to a thousand. Not here to shame them, but dang I shot my buck this year at 495 yrds and I personally felt a little dirty… I guess that is the bow hunter in me though.
 
I've always thought of it in reverse. If I were a dyed in the wool muzzy or bow hunter, and advancements in tech made the success rates go up, and thus the permit allocations down, I'd be pissed. As a rifle hunter, I don't really see rifle success rates going up due to long range rigs- so I really don't care too much.
I am primarily a bow hunter (with occasional rifle hunts) and have been since I borrowed my future father-in-law's bow on a hunting trip with him in 1966. I was 25 years old.

In my lifetime there have been some "major" advancements to archery equipment, including:
- (1939 -aluminum arrows - James Easton)
- 1951 - Plastiflech vanes - Max Hamilton
- 1953 - Recurve bows - Bear Archery
- 1956 - Pistol grip bow handles - Hoyt Archery
- 1961 - Torque stabilizer - Hoyt Archery
- 1961 - Compound bow - Holless Allen (triangular wheels)
- ???? - Round wheels - ?
- 1970 - Release Aids - ? - debuted in U.S. Nat'l competition
- 1971 - Flipper rest - Andy Rimo
- 1971 - Soft plastic vanes - Flex Fletch
- 1974 - Dual prong arrow rest - Freddie Troncoso
- 1982 - Cam wheels - ?
- 1983 - Carbon arrow shaft - Easton Archery
- 1992 - Single cam bows - Matt McPherson (Mathews Archery)
- During all this time and since, there have been numerous advancements in bow designs, materials, sights, rests, release aids, stabilizers, string stops, mechanical broadheads, etc.
. And has all this technology greatly increased the success rates? NOPE! While there are certainly many factors that determine success rates, the overall bow hunting success rates are only about 2.8% higher now than they were before the invention of the compound bow. (1952-1965-17.1%) (2013-2022-19.9%) Why? There are just too many challenges to bowhunting that don't change no matter what bow you are using!

I can't speak for the rifle or muzzleloader tech increases, but there is no advantage to archery permit numbers if we ban archery technology.
 
Says The StickFlipper!

Right efa?:D


I am primarily a bow hunter (with occasional rifle hunts) and have been since I borrowed my future father-in-law's bow on a hunting trip with him in 1966. I was 25 years old.

In my lifetime there have been some "major" advancements to archery equipment, including:
- (1939 -aluminum arrows - James Easton)
- 1951 - Plastiflech vanes - Max Hamilton
- 1953 - Recurve bows - Bear Archery
- 1956 - Pistol grip bow handles - Hoyt Archery
- 1961 - Torque stabilizer - Hoyt Archery
- 1961 - Compound bow - Holless Allen (triangular wheels)
- ???? - Round wheels - ?
- 1970 - Release Aids - ? - debuted in U.S. Nat'l competition
- 1971 - Flipper rest - Andy Rimo
- 1971 - Soft plastic vanes - Flex Fletch
- 1974 - Dual prong arrow rest - Freddie Troncoso
- 1982 - Cam wheels - ?
- 1983 - Carbon arrow shaft - Easton Archery
- 1992 - Single cam bows - Matt McPherson (Mathews Archery)
- During all this time and since, there have been numerous advancements in bow designs, materials, sights, rests, release aids, stabilizers, string stops, mechanical broadheads, etc.
. And has all this technology greatly increased the success rates? NOPE! While there are certainly many factors that determine success rates, the overall bow hunting success rates are only about 2.8% higher now than they were before the invention of the compound bow. (1952-1965-17.1%) (2013-2022-19.9%) Why? There are just too many challenges to bowhunting that don't change no matter what bow you are using!

I can't speak for the rifle or muzzleloader tech increases, but there is no advantage to archery permit numbers if we ban archery technology.
 
The point of my question isn't if x percent of guys have a custom long range gun. I don't care about that and don't care if a guy or gal can actually shoot proficiently with it. My question is the logic behind any of these bans when they started with the least effective weapon.

I'm just looking for a logical answer and when will rifles be similarly restricted? If no rifle restrictions are implemented then the gun pictured above will become the norm as it already is becoming.
 
The numbers suggest one very inconvenient truth. That for the most part tech doesn’t impact success.

It might impact age class.

If I’ve grasped the survey numbers correctly this is how I understand them:

If a hunt has a success rate of 50% around 1/2 of that number is from hunters who are dedicated to their craft guys we call killers. People who just know how to get the job done and do it. They are successful no matter what weapon they carry, you limit them to an open sight 30/30 and they’ll punch that tag cause they are good at what they do.

The other 1/2 is a mixed bag of guys who are lucky/guys who have good equipment but less of a personal drive to put effort in/guys who are chasing upper age class animals and choose only harvest when the hunt meets their personal standards.

When broken down this way it starts to make sense why success rates aren’t impacted by significant changes in technology/restrictions. 1/2 the animals taken are going to killed no matter what. The other half are also going to be killed no matter what, just under very different circumstances.

this isn’t the actual breakdown, but more a generalization that’s intended to illustrate.
 
Wiffy,
Remember I've been against all the same things as you even if it had no impact on me either way.

Sure, Lots of guys have "custom" rifles but damn few shoot them enough to be any good anyway, IMHO.

I agree with what was said above: 10% have them (custom rifles) and 10% of them know what to do with them.

Zeke
I know you have been against all this BS from the get go. I respect your opinion and you are in that 10% that can proficiently handle any weapon.

You got me thinking though while I was dropping a deuce. I went through all the people I know that regularly rifle hunt. I counted 10 people that I would consider hunting acquaintances that I interact with fairly regularly. All 10 of them have custom built rifles, specifically built for long range. Meaning the optics and capability to shoot beyond 600+ yards. Several of them have shared stories of killing beyond 800. IMO 10% is grossly underestimated.

PS when I stood up off the pot my legs were numb and I about endo'd through the sheetrock.
 
The numbers suggest one very inconvenient truth. That for the most part tech doesn’t impact success.

It might impact age class.

If I’ve grasped the survey numbers correctly this is how I understand them:

If a hunt has a success rate of 50% around 1/2 of that number is from hunters who are dedicated to their craft guys we call killers. People who just know how to get the job done and do it. They are successful no matter what weapon they carry, you limit them to an open sight 30/30 and they’ll punch that tag cause they are good at what they do.

The other 1/2 is a mixed bag of guys who are lucky/guys who have good equipment but less of a personal drive to put effort in/guys who are chasing upper age class animals and choose only harvest when the hunt meets their personal standards.

When broken down this way it starts to make sense why success rates aren’t impacted by significant changes in technology/restrictions. 1/2 the animals taken are going to killed no matter what. The other half are also going to be killed no matter what, just under very different circumstances.

this isn’t the actual breakdown, but more a generalization that’s intended to illustrate.
I agree with you, but what about the garbage that was shoved down our throats about putting the hunt back in hunting does that not apply to rifle hunting? (Just playing the devils advocate)
 
I agree with you, but what about the garbage that was shoved down our throats about putting the hunt back in hunting does that not apply to rifle hunting? (Just playing the devils advocate)
Eh it’s still there.

For me personally, this is how I see it. I’m pretty anti government/regulation in general so if I can’t see or be shown how a regulation is impactful it falls under the unnecessary category and is defined in my book as overreach.

Now, if you can show me how regulating a specific tech will bring about significant tag increases/hunter satisfaction improvement/biological stability, well count me in 100%. Just show me how and who benefits by it.
 
Well BEAVIS!

They're Coming For Your LONG RANGER Next!

Gonna Give That F'ER A HAIR-CUT!

Eh it’s still there.

For me personally, this is how I see it. I’m pretty anti government/regulation in general so if I can’t see or be shown how a regulation is impactful it falls under the unnecessary category and is defined in my book as overreach.

Now, if you can show me how regulating a specific tech will bring about significant tag increases/hunter satisfaction improvement/biological stability, well count me in 100%. Just show me how and who benefits by it.
 
Eh it’s still there.

For me personally, this is how I see it. I’m pretty anti government/regulation in general so if I can’t see or be shown how a regulation is impactful it falls under the unnecessary category and is defined in my book as overreach.

Now, if you can show me how regulating a specific tech will bring about significant tag increases/hunter satisfaction improvement/biological stability, well count me in 100%. Just show me how and who benefits by it.
That's easy, but not popular here.

If you want to keep your rifle tech and high success rates then tags need to be dramatically reduced for rifle hunts and redistributed to the least effective weapon.......archery.
 
Well hell. I think Utah should institute three seasons. Sticks, stones and knives (no longer than 6"). The knife hunt will be the "high quality" hunt. The deer population will explode!

Arizona will be watching carefully for the results. And maybe a little LMAO!
 
Well hell. I think Utah should institute three seasons. Sticks, stones and knives (no longer than 6"). The knife hunt will be the "high quality" hunt. The deer population will explode!

Arizona will be watching carefully for the results. And maybe a little LMAO!
If I can hunt every year in my chosen area I am all over it!
 
When talking about the success rate of archers through the years I don't think you can limit that to technology. MANY things have changed in the last 70 years. There used to be a lot of deer and plenty of good land to hunt. So if I hunt with a long bow and see 20 bucks each day, and you use a compound and see 2 bucks each day, that is not a fair comparison of the technology if we both succeed 19% of the time.

I remember my dad telling me about their deer hunts when he was a teenager. They would drive up to their spot and go sit on their assigned trails. They would shoot the first bucks they saw on opening morning, gut them, drag them to the truck a few hundred yards away, and drive home. They used old 30-30s and military surplus rifles. They were successful with older technology. That doesn't mean I can go hunt the same spot today and be as successful with the same weapons.
 
I'd add that today's hunters are much more "capable" than decades ago. Used to be that hunters had their spot, looked for an animal, and shot the first one they came across. And most were meat hunters.

Fast forward- today's hunters have mapping tools, the internet for research, better clothing, better boots, better body of knowledge on techniques, better weapons, better binos, the list keeps going on. What happens? Darwin takes over. The deer that survive are smarter about hunters, they don't just walk out in front of you and turn broadside.

When I look back at the dozens of elk and deer I've killed- by FAR the "easiest" ones were back in the 80s and 90s. I've had to get much better over time to get in position to harvest an elk or deer.

So is new tech bad? Naaa- just part of the evolution of hunting- which includes how the animals adapt. Just keep the evolution slow if we can.
 
When talking about the success rate of archers through the years I don't think you can limit that to technology. MANY things have changed in the last 70 years. There used to be a lot of deer and plenty of good land to hunt. So if I hunt with a long bow and see 20 bucks each day, and you use a compound and see 2 bucks each day, that is not a fair comparison of the technology if we both succeed 19% of the time.

I remember my dad telling me about their deer hunts when he was a teenager. They would drive up to their spot and go sit on their assigned trails. They would shoot the first bucks they saw on opening morning, gut them, drag them to the truck a few hundred yards away, and drive home. They used old 30-30s and military surplus rifles. They were successful with older technology. That doesn't mean I can go hunt the same spot today and be as successful with the same weapons.
Isn't that kind of the point of the restrictions is to not be as successful? It just hasn't happened with rifles......yet. That's the million dollar question and defies any logic, why didn't they start with major restrictions on a rifle first? Oh that's right it was to put the hunt back in hunting for everyone other than the rifle hunters.
 
Isn't that kind of the point of the restrictions is to not be as successful? It just hasn't happened with rifles......yet. That's the million dollar question and defies any logic, why didn't they start with major restrictions on a rifle first? Oh that's right it was to put the hunt back in hunting for everyone other than the rifle hunters.
I do believe the same units that was proposed recurved only they proposed rifles with no scopes.
Am I wrong
 
I’m all for limiting tech across the board. Here is my question though.. Besides just whining about it, how can we actually limit tech on rifles besides just saying no scopes?
-If you say no turrets, people will just use the ones that come standard on the gun for sighting it in.
-Lower power scopes may help but I think people will still take far shots.
No scopes on muzzleloaders was easy because it’s already been done. No electronic sights on bows was easy. What’s an actual restriction on rifles that makes sense?? Because until we can say something more than just “make it fair!” I don’t think anything will happen.
 
I’m all for limiting tech across the board. Here is my question though.. Besides just whining about it, how can we actually limit tech on rifles besides just saying no scopes?
-If you say no turrets, people will just use the ones that come standard on the gun for sighting it in.
-Lower power scopes may help but I think people will still take far shots.
No scopes on muzzleloaders was easy because it’s already been done. No electronic sights on bows was easy. What’s an actual restriction on rifles that makes sense?? Because until we can say something more than just “make it fair!” I don’t think anything will happen.
The only effective solution to limiting rifles is also the easiest, no rangefinders, laser or otherwise. Very few people can accurately guess range beyond 300 ish, which is about the limit of mpbr for most rifles.

Sure, some guys will be able to use mildot type reticles and do some math to get close, but it's not fast and it ain't easy.
 
The only effective solution to limiting rifles is also the easiest, no rangefinders, laser or otherwise. Very few people can accurately guess range beyond 300 ish, which is about the limit of mpbr for most rifles.

Sure, some guys will be able to use mildot type reticles and do some math to get close, but it's not fast and it ain't easy.
I like that. I also think limiting the magnification of the scopes would be simple. Fixed 6x or lower. It would suck for all the rifle guys with expensive scopes, but join the club.
 
With All the crying about tech and tags. I would be ok with eliminating bow and muzzleloader tags and make them ALW. Use whatever weapon you want. I am tired bow and muzzleloader hunters getting 1st crack.
 
I’m all for limiting tech across the board. Here is my question though.. Besides just whining about it, how can we actually limit tech on rifles besides just saying no scopes?
-If you say no turrets, people will just use the ones that come standard on the gun for sighting it in.
-Lower power scopes may help but I think people will still take far shots.
No scopes on muzzleloaders was easy because it’s already been done. No electronic sights on bows was easy. What’s an actual restriction on rifles that makes sense?? Because until we can say something more than just “make it fair!” I don’t think anything will happen.
Fixed 4x scopes would restrict rifles.
 
I could give a 🐀's azz either way. Just sad that gown men act like children. Jealous and petty bitching and moaning over the internet. 😇
So your crying about other people's crying on the internet doesn't fall into that? Gotcha 👍

Gotta love the dudes that whine about other people's whining. Is that a lack of self-awareness thing, or a lack of intelligence thing?
 
So your crying about other people's crying on the internet doesn't fall into that? Gotcha 👍

Gotta love the dudes that whine about other people's whining. Is that a lack of self-awareness thing, or a lack of intelligence thing?
Show me where I have ever whined or complained on MM, I mainly post memes.
if I looked I could find 100+ of you.
Gotta love dudes who talk out of their azz
 
With All the crying about tech and tags. I would be ok with eliminating bow and muzzleloader tags and make them ALW. Use whatever weapon you want. I am tired bow and muzzleloader hunters getting 1st crack.
Oh and there is your whining right here in this thread - see bolded above.

Must be a self-awareness thing for sure.
 
The only effective solution to limiting rifles is also the easiest, no rangefinders, laser or otherwise. Very few people can accurately guess range beyond 300 ish, which is about the limit of mpbr for most rifles.

Sure, some guys will be able to use mildot type reticles and do some math to get close, but it's not fast and it ain't easy.
I think that is a good one that works. Range finders really extended range for sure. I think the fixed scopes or lower magnification might help, but I’ve also heard some of the longest sniper shots being made by 3-9 scopes!
 
I think that is a good one that works. Range finders really extended range for sure. I think the fixed scopes or lower magnification might help, but I’ve also heard some of the longest sniper shots being made by 3-9 scopes!
General rule of thumb guys will use 1x for 100 yards, so a 4x = 400 yards, 6x = 600, personally I think it’s stretching it for that optic but I shot a ton of rounds with a 4x trijicon and 300 meters on a silhouette is nothing
 
Speaking for Utah I don't see any reason why they'd restrict rifle technology. Their top priority is to keep the demand/value of LE rifle permits as high as possible. People are then more likely to hire guides, pay $$ to hunt private ranches, and spend $$$ on the auction tags. If they were to restrict rife hunting technology it would reduce the demand/value of those tags. Not going to happen. They were happy to entertain changes to the muzzleloader tech because that actually pushes more people toward the rifle hunts, thereby increasing their demand and value.

The best solution to Utah's problems would be to eliminate all LE and CWMU hunts, along with conservation and expo tags.

Restricting the technology isn't a bad idea, and some eastern states have done it. Limiting scope magnification, restricting rangefinders to 500 yards, straight-walled cartridges only, non-magnum cartridges only, capped turrets only, duplex reticles only, etc. could all be considered.
 
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hypershell-robotic-exoskeleton-2.jpg | Image
 
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View attachment 133948
Shed hunting apparatus right there.
 
What about Hypershell Box is this on the tech screen
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View attachment 133948
I saw someone on Only Fans using this, their stamina was really impressive.
 
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General season and LE fully guided hunts for mule deer, elk, moose, antelope, lion, turkey, bear and coyotes.

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