Rockies Rifle

[Swisslake]

I will be hunting mule deer & antelope over the next 3 years. I'm looking to get a good open country rifle that is light weight. My budget for the gun is about $1,000. What combination of caliber and model is recommended? Thanks.

 

[RELH]

Swisslake;

Based on your guidelines, I would give a serious look at the Winchester M-70 Featherweight in 270 or 30-06 caliber. The Nikon 2X7 by 32MM scope would look just right on that rifle, or use the Nikon 3X9 if you preferr that power range. This should provide you with a good lightweight package that will deliver the punch out there for mulies and speedgoats.
I lean more to the 270 caliber, but if you plan to use this rifle for any game bigger then deer, you might give more consideration to the 30-06.
This package will leave you with money left over to maybe purchase a good pair of binocs if you do not have one already.

RELH

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

unlike RELH, i will recomend a remington. i personally carry remington 700 bdl lss mountain rifle, this gun comes in a variety or calibers such as .260, 270, 30-06. top this with a leupold or something like that and you have yourself a gun. this gun is also accurate, i can put ragged 5 shots groups at 100. i also have shot a jackrabbit at 324 yards(rangefinder) and a coues deer at 340 yrds.(rangefinder again) i highly reccomend this rifle
casey

 

[redrabbit]

I concur about the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle LSS chambered in 270 winny. It's relatively light(6 1/2 - 6 5/8 lb.), handles well, and the 270 has proven itself for effectiveness and flatness for the game you mention. I have the 700 mountain rifle LSS chambered in 260 rem, and used it to take a Utah antelope at a ranged 385 yards and have taken it coues hunting. The Mountain R. LSS in 7mm-08 would also be a good chambering.

Another option would be a Winchester 70 Featherweight in 270 or 270 WSM. The wsm gives about 200 fps extra, but a little more recoil.

Doug/ Red Rabbit

 

[RLH]

remington? i guess if you need an extra tent peg or something you can saw the barrel up for that. get one with a wood stock so you can have a little extra fire wood. i have to agree with the winchester, but i'd look for a pre64 if you have time. seein' as how i've shot everything there is with a .270 and my dad likes em, that's a good choice. i guess remingtons are ok if ya don't know any better. but since ya asked, i'll enlighten ya. i like the new "pre 64" style winchester action ok. but it just ain't an old one. have one in a .300 mag and it works well. but i've had hell and witness several other guys have things ruined by remington extractors and triggers. if i'm in the middle of nowhere, i want a gun i know won't croak on me. and for me, it's winchester 70. and don't get all caught up in the stainless/composite bs either. nothing wrong with them, other than they shine and the stock sounds like a drum when ya bump it. they function ok. but there isn't anything wrong with a blued/walnut stocked rifle either. seems that most folks feel they're inferior for some reason.

 

[elk_horn]

I have had Remington and Ive shot winchester...but I like the ruger bolt action best gun Ive ever owned ...and If Im hunting Deer and elk or anything bigger i would use 30-06 or 7mm mag just my own experience!

 

[mtmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-04 AT 08:31PM (MST)[p]I notice some badmouthing of Remington rifles in certain posts. Easy to do when said rifle performs reliably and predictably. I've shot Remingtons from a 1950's 721, a 70's 788, and a 00's 700. Each rifle has never let me down. As a matter of fact, the 788 could be a one hole gun if I could hold it still enough. The 700 shoots varmint size groups in a MAGNUM caliber. Pick whichever rifle feels best and appeals to you. Whatever rifle you choose it needs to fit you ahd your hunting style. As for the thing about stainless shining, BS. Most rifles in stainless have a dull finish. None of the game I killed said anything about my shiny gun. The stocks on most composite rifles leave something to be desired. Easily changed later. For an easy carry mountain rifle, I would reccomend one of the new short magnums. If you will hunt elk stay with a 7mm or .300 The style and brand of rifle is up to you. Good hunting. mtmuley

 

[RLH]

stainless doesn't shine? guess the ones i see glitterin' across the canyon must not o' heard that. probly doesn't have much affect on anything. i've just always thought that a nice walnut stock and blued barrel was sorta purty. i've got several stainless rifles. nothing wrong with em. nothing particularly right with em either. never liked the way stainless feels when you slide the bolt. doesn't feel as slick as carbon steel. but they work fine. i've got a couple 788's. shoot straight as anything i've ever owned. don't care for the clips and the ejectors are horrible. but they shoot straight, especially after you lighten up the trigger a little. i've got a 721 and a couple 700's too. but if was gonna be in the middle of nowhere and could just have one rifle along, it wouldn't be any of them. over the years i've seen several rifles just flat mess up. no fault of the shooter. and every time it was a remington. i've seen the extractor roll off and leave a case in the barrel several times. the spookiest thing i've ever seen tho is having them go off when you flip off the safety. they have a trigger safety, as opposed to a hammer safety like a model 70. one little grain of sand in the wrong place can let em fire when you release the safety.

 

[threelemonbob]

Hell just spend a couple thousand more and get a 50cal sniper rifle with a 12x60 springfeild armory scope and a good bipod.....No i dont know what you guys did to your remingtons to make them do that. Someone must have sold you a pos and accidently put remington on it. Ive never had any problem with mine. Shoots better than my savage, ruger, and tompson center. And the T.C. is a varment rifle in 22.250! Buy what you want but i would consider a remington very seriously (one of the best rifles made) in whatever caliber you like. For antilope and deer a 25.06 would be good or a .260, or a .264, or a 270 or a 7mm or a 300 your going to shoot what you trust and any of them would work great as long as you can shoot strait.

 

[RLH]

i hope ewe shute batter thun you spill. remington's are ok, but there are better rifles available. ruger is damn good option too. so is sako, tikka, browning, savage, etc., etc. did you shoot that bigfoot with your remington? oh wait, you didn't shoot it.

 

[RELH]

Threelemonbob;
I think that you may have missed the point that RLH was trying to get across. First off let me say that I do dislike Remingtons, My first rifle was a 721, but because your Remington has been a very good one, does not mean that they do not have some serious drawbacks.
Remington has one of the poorest designed extractors on the market. It is common for the small extractor to pull over the rim of the shell case while trying to extract the fired case from the chamber. This is one reason professional african guides do not favor using a remington when going after game that can bite back. They prefer a Mauser or Winchester type action.
Remington's trigger is notorious for going off when it should not. There has been recalls for this and Remington leads the pack for lawsuits involving their trigger due to accidental discharges. Their trigger is a very poor design. I feel that Winchester has one of the best designs for being simple and reliable. I am aware of too many accidental discharges involving the Remington trigger. Some due to wear, alot due to the gun owner trying to adjust the trigger for a lighter pull and not knowing how to test the trigger after "adjusting it".
I do not like the flimsy recoil bushing lug that Remington puts into their rifle due to cutting manufacturing costs. This recoil bushing lug can flex, especially with mag. calibers, and cause accuracy problems.
Remington has some drawbacks, and anyone who really knows his facts about rifles, will not make a broad statement about Remington being the best rifle out there.
For many years the pre-64 model 70 was called the "Rifleman's Rifle" by some of the best shooters and hunters we had, there was a very good reason for that nickname given to the Winchester M-70.
Remington M-700 is a good rifle, but it is nowhere near the best rifle out there. With a couple of changes, it may get to the top of the hill.

RELH

 

[mtmuley]

It would seem this topic has turned into a Remington vs all else debate, and I for one apologize. Although Remington is my rifle of choice, I do have a pre-64 featherweight in 30-06. I also own a Ruger 77 tang safety in .243. I have never experienced any of the Remington problems or shortcomings described here, and don't feel anyone should shy away from the purchase of one. Back to the topic of Rockies rifle. As I said before, a good easy carry powerful rifle would be one of the short mags. .300 would be my first choice. I live and hunt in the Rockies, and feel the extra power and range is a plus. To repeat myself, purchase the rifle that feels good in YOUR hands. mtmuley

 

[elk_horn]

I just know I own a Ruger m77 30-06 and a 700 adl remington in 30-06 the remington stays home and the ruger goes hunting...had problems with the remington going off when the safety is taken off... took it to a gun smith ...but I still dont trust it!

 

[RLH]

i don't know if i'm glad or if it just validates my opinion, that others have seen the same things in the remingtons that i have. thanks for the backup RELH. remingtons ain't bad guns, but they ain't the best either. i own several and they are ok. i also have rock chips in both of my calves from when a new bdl '06 went off when the safety was released by another guy and the bullet hit between my feet. cost us a huge bull too. some minutes later when he tried to chamber another round, it went off when he closed the bolt. he ended up using my .270. took it to a gunsmith after the season and it had a couple little pieces of junk in the trigger that allowed it do this. this was a new gun. first time in the field. and guy is so anal about clean guns he ain't fun to be around. anyway, good to hear that i wasn't just imagining things. plus, i like a big ol' mauser type extractor.........

 

[RELH]

RLH;
No problem on the backup, you know that we have pin pointed our age by liking the pre-64 model-70 and the mauser actions. I guess we are old farts compared to some of the other members on these forums. Maybe if we give them enought time to see some of the things we have seen, they will sing a different tune down the road.
RELH

 

[mtmuley]

OK, Now I am wondering why in the heck you guys have seen so many Remington failures. I hunt with many Remington owners and have done so without a hitch. I apologized for basically hijacking this post, but this Remington bashing is bordering on ludicrous. These rifles DO NOT fire every time you close the bolt or flip off the safety. Come on! After 1982 the safety was revised. I and my family ( meaning back to my Grandfather) have used and hunted with Remington rifles over 100 years combined. Although I have stated I own other rifles, my Remingtons shoot the best. Why is it that custom gun makers as a majority use the 700 action as a base for their rifles? Don't believe me? Check some sites. The starter of this post wanted info on a good easy carry mountain rifle. If he chooses to purchase a Remington he will not be sorry. Only you with a closed mind and biased opinion will be. As for the age thing, it doesn't matter. A young person can appreciate a fine rifle as well as an older one. Synthetics and stainless do not make a rifle any less "fine" than claro walnut and the finest blueing. A "fine" rifle is one that feels good in your hands, and that you can shoot well. Done ranting. mtmuley

 

[RELH]

MtMuley;
I will try and answer your questions based on my experience. I have just retired from 30 years in law enforcement. During that career I was a sniper on the swat team, competition shooter, certified firearms instructor, department armour, and I had a part time gunsmithing shop where I worked on mostly rifles and built custom rifles.
Due to my positions concerning firearms in my dept. I read appox. 20-40 articles, mags, publications every month dealing with firearms. In my positions I was able to get numerous articles concerning & pertaining to firearm failures or problems that the average person would find difficult to obtain.
As a result of this above experience, I am aware of numerous problems that are related to the trigger mechanism of remington rifles. Due to this information, I do not like or trust the Remington trigger-safety mechanism as I do other brands of firearms. I lost count long ago of how many times I saw information, or seen for myself, a Remington having a accidental discharge due to a faulty system, that was tested and proven to be faulty. Lets face it, any mechanical device can fail at any time, but Remington triggers-safety have too high of a rate of failure for me to trust them.
You are right about alot of custom builders using the Rem. action to build custom accurate rifles. Most of the builders using them are basing their reputation on building a rifle for outstanding accuracy more then anything else. The reason for this is because the Remington action is a oblong cylinder with a removable recoil lug plate that fits inbetween the barrel and action. This makes it very easy, less set up time, to chuck this action into a lathe and blueprint it for accuracy while turning down the lug recess, face, truing up the threads ect! In other words, the gunsmith saves alot of time on using the Rem. action over many others. Time is money to them.
I also appreciate a fine custom rifle, and I am not a very big lover of Sny. stocks, they are cold and ugly, I prefer to use a select grade of English or Claro wanut on my own stocks, most customers want the plastic instead. As for fine bluing, Rem. is only average in that dept. Several other brands use a higher grit of polish resulting in a far better finish job.
yes, you are right about me having a biased opinion concerning some aspects of the Remington rifle, I feel that I have a very good reason to have that opinion, I value my life and will not use a product that I feel is not made to the standards that it should be. If others feel different about using a item that could be sub-standard, that is their choice also.

RELH

 

[mtmuley]

RELH, Thanks for your post. Although it doesn't change my mind about Remington rifles, it was good information. The shortcomings of Remingtons have been slowly addressed by Remington, and if there are ones that haven't, it can be done by the aftermarket. I like all kinds of rifles but most of the ones I truly want are $$$$$. All rifles have a glitch or two. I guess just because my Remingtons work perfectly, doesn't mean all of them do. But honestly, my Remingtons shoot, and shoot well. As far as a good easy carry rifle, I would choose the .300 WSM. but maybe not in a Winchester rifle. Maybe. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

RELH, as an aside, what caliber and action did you use as a sniper? mtmuley

 

[RANGERCON]

Watch out, RELH!! He's setting you up!! He knows you used a Rem. 700, .308...LOL That is almost the standard for LE/Military shooters. Some may use Savages. With a Leupold Mark 4.

Iam watching your back, bro....

 

[mtmuley]

I did not do it intensionly. Doesn't mean RELH used it.I am aware of the .308 and its use in military and civilian police forces. I am also aware of the use of Remington 700 actions in such rifles. All I asked was a simple question. mtmuley

 

[RELH]

Mtmuley;
You are a sly devil, my answer will let you say, " I told you so", and the other part of the answer will surprise the hell out of you.
I was the primary sniper during the late 70's up to 1980. My rifle was dept issued to me. It was a Rem. 700 as you guessed. I made adjustments on the trigger to suit me in my job as the sniper. My backup sniper also had a Rem. 700 bull barrel in 223 cal. Both rifles had Leupold 4X12 scopes. Now the caliber of my rifle was not .308 or 300 Win. Mag. It was "25-06" and that gun would dot your eye at 200 yards. I had worked both rifles over, bedding, trigger rework, ect! and they preformed well for the job that they had to do.
Like I said earlier, Rem. can be very accurate with just some minor tuning, I still do not trust their damn trigger.
I wish that Rem. would change their trigger to sometime more reliable and simple, similar to Win. and do away with that flimsy extractor ring, and go to a sako style extractor for more positive extraction, beef up the recoil lug, make it 15-20 thousands thicker, and I will beat you to the door to buy one.
alot of gunsmiths would not care for these changes, cause they have available all of these items on the aftermarket and some of them do a good business making these changes on the Rem. 700. I would like for Rem. to make these changes and I feel that they would greatly improve their rifle and the cost should not be over an additional 50-75 bucks, and they would cut more into the sales of other rifle companies even with the price increase.
To show you that I don't only Bi--h about Rem. I feel that Rem. trigger is most un-reliabe, but Ruger has, by far, the worst trigger on the market in terms of a heavy hard pulling b#####D.
And there is very little you can do with a Ruger trigger without changing angles or buying a expensive aftermarket. Their bolt action M-77 rifles are the worst also for out of box accuracy. now I have gone and ticked off the Ruger fans along with the Rem. fans.
I love several of the ruger single action revolvers, their 22 cal semi-auto pistol, and the 10-22 rifle, but their bolt actions suck. Their single shot rifles are great.
RELH

 

[RANGERCON]

mtmuley, I was just kidding around with you and RELH. I surley meant no offence. I didnt post on this thread, but had been watching it develop.

I know that Remington's are "usually" standard issue for LE/military shooters, with an occasional Savage 110 in there.

Well, I got the rifle brand right and the scope, but a 25-06?!?!?!? Never saw that one coming!! Very interesting.

I like Remington triggers, AFTER they are worked over by a competant gunsmith. Yes, I know how to adjust one, but a real pro can make a fine, Jewell like trigger out of a Rem., (Walker) trigger.

 

[mtmuley]

Gotcha! All kidding aside, threads like these with knowledable people to respond to are a kick. I didn't see the 25-06 coming either. Although it makes good sense with that caliber known for excellent accuracy and flat trajectory. I have had my 700 trigger done. Luckily here in western Montana where I live, we have an excellent gunsmith. Pull is 3 lbs. Made all the difference in the world. I have friends that would wholeheartedly agree with you about rugers. Except maybe the accuracy part. Anyway, its been fun. mtmuley

 

[NMRaptor]

This has been an interesting read. I felt like I was sitting in class. Stuff was way over my head. I recently bought my "rockies rifle". Its a weatherby ultralight in 7mm Rem Mag. Although I haven't weighed it yet, I'd say its under 7 lbs with scope and sling. Anyway, what are your opinions on this rifle?
-Raptor

 

[mtmuley]

Raptor, should be a heck of a good carry gun. You didn't say if you had fired it yet, but 7mms tend to have a sharp recoil. How is yours to shoot?. mtmuley

 

[NMRaptor]

Hey Muley,
I haven't shot it yet. I mounted the scope yesterday. I'd like to get to the range this weekend or next and throw some lead. I imagine it'll kick like a mule since it is so light.
-Raptor

 

[mtmuley]

LAST EDITED ON May-05-04 AT 06:45PM (MST)[p]Let us know how it goes. Also, I use a Past recoil shield when firing my .300 Ultra at the bench. For about 30 bucks, you could be a lot more comfortable. mtmuley

 

[BACK40JOE]

Man there is a lot of information on this thread.
Anyway, What do you all think of the Kimber WSMs. I too want a lightweight flat shooting gun and I think the 8400 Montana in 270WSM should be an excellent choice for this. Any opinions?

Back40

 

[kilowatt]

Last Friday I won a Weatherby Vanguard in 223 cal. with a scope, won't be able to pick it up till 17th but am looking forward to getting it and shooting at the range with it. Don't know what scope is coming with it so will have to wait.

Brian

 

[RANGERCON]

Kimbers are superb rifles. Accurate, well built, etc. I almost bought a Montana 7mm/08 at a gunshow this year, with a 3-9x40 Zeiss Diavari. The guy wanted $1100 for the rifle/scope!! Oh well.
This was a very lightweight rig. Cant go wrong with a Kimber, friend. They are almost too nice to hunt with though. LOL

 

[mtmuley]

I would love to have a Kimber. And a Cooper, and a Jarret, and well, nevermind. If you have the bucks, the Kimber is a great choice. I bet that first scratch is going to hurt! Kimbers are shooters. You really can't go wrong. mtmuley

 

[ridgerunner]

Definately get a rifle that is one that feels right to you, something in the 270 WSM or 06 caliber will do the trick.

It has been interesting to read about the Remington problems. I am not a gun nut but have had problems with both mine. I have a Model 700 in .243 that one time while at the gun range as soon as the bolt was closed would fire. Needless to say that gun got put away real fast, and then an 06 in the mountain rifle that the firing pin locked up in the middle of a hunt. Needless to say the gun wouldn't shoot at all. I was ticked to say the least. Perhaps I've just had bad luck but I am looking at getting a different rifle.