Rookie Questions

[AirWis]

I received a muzzleloader (.50 cal CVA staghorn 209 magnum) as a Christmas gift, and unfortunately have not had a chance to shoot it yet. Before I do, I have a few questions, and I hope you will forgive my ignorance. I plan on shooting 295 grain aerotip powerbelts with 777 powder.

Where can I find lapping compound?

When working up a load, what would be a good amount of powder to start with? 60 gr.? 70?

Is a 295 grain bullet going to be enough for elk? (At ranges of less than 100 yards.)

When you guys talk about "spit patches," do you litterally mean patches wet with spit?

I'm sure I can come up with more questions, but for now, any help you guys can give me on these would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Oakbuck]

From one rookie to another... I have the same questions about 777. This is a really dumb question but here goes: 777 is measured by volume not weight, right? So does that mean if someone says to start at 90 grains of powder and work up to a load that your gun likes does that mean the volume equivalent of 777 not actually 90 grains? Confusing.

As to the lapping compound I found it at Checker Auto Parts and if they have it most other auto parts stores will also. Its used for seating valves I was told.

I've decided to try the heavier power belt conicals for my elk load probably a 405g aerotip or at least the 350g aerotip because they have a lot more down range energy. Getting ready to try them out soon.

Anyones thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[fairchase]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-03 AT 06:51AM (MST)[p]You guy are on the right track. I am no expert, but I have a few years under my belt.

Your question about powder is a little bit confusing, but it dosen't matter what type or brand as long it's blackpowder or a substitute like 777. Just get a powder measure, and pour it in. Start at say 80 or 90 grains. that's it. 90 grains is 90 grains dosen't matter what brand. 777 is just about 10% hotter thats all. Work your loads up 5 grains at a time and compare 3 shot groups without moving your sights. Then just pick the load that gives you the best group. After that you can start adjusting your sights as needed.
A spit patch is just that, I just lick a clean cotton patch run it down and then flip it, and run it down again with the dry side.
Hope that helps, BTW your questions are not stupid, just jeep them coming, we're here to help.

 

[RKenSparc]

70 grains is a good starting point, for a .50. I normally hunt with between 90 and 100 grains in my .50s and .54. I work the load to get the best accuracy.

All black powder, and black powder substitutes are measured by volume (NOT weight) as stated above buy an adjustable BP powder measure, pour from flask to measure, then from measure to barrel. 777 tends to be a bit hotter than real black and Pyrodex, so it might pay to start with a reduced load (about 10% less than normal). In in-lines you can also try the preformed powder pellets. They are quick and easy, but don't offer as much flexibility in you loads, and cost more.

Go to my site, there are a couple of articles there about getting started in muzzleloading that will answer many of your question. Also do a search for Bluelk's Muzzleloading 101 on this site and the Realtree site. Bluelk was one the most knowledgeable BP shooters that posted here, and his information is invaluable to the new shooter.

Finally there are no stupid questions - and most BP shooters are more than happy to help someone get started.

Good luck

Check out my black powder site at:
www.angelfire.com/home/oldguns

 

[sampson]

Airwis, I am just getting into muzzleloading too. You are asking almost the exact same questions that I asked on a similar website.

I was kind of intimidated at the terminology and techniques some of the guys were discussing, but I got some general pointers like you are doing. When I shot for the first time I had a blast and everything worked out like the guys said it would.

I started out shooting 350 gr black belts from my .50 TC, using first 70 gr of 777. I then fired a group at 80 gr, again at 85, then 90. My groups had tightened up pretty good so I left it at that. I will do some fine tuning later.

It sounds like you are on the same track that I am, so I thought I would share my experience in getting started. It really isn't as complicated as I had expected. Have fun and be safe.

Sam

 

[Oakbuck]

RKenSparc, thanks for the link to your site. It's great information and most of my questions were answered there. After years of loading my own CF cartridges, weighing each charge is second nature.

I'm trying to decide between ffg and fffg 777 for my T/C Encore 209x50. Is there any preference for inlines?

What would be considered a minimum bullet size for elk?

Thanks again!

 

[heartshot]

When at the range how often (using 777) should you run a spit patch. How often should you use solvents and oils?

 

[Inmysights]

Airwis,

I shoot the exact same gun... you'll love it. I shoot a 295 grain aerotip powerbelt and 130 grains of powder. I use the pyrodex pellets though. I have an inch and a half grouping at 100 yards. I am going to be hunting elk this year in Utah with it. I am going to use the 350 grain aerotip powerbelt...I still have to work up the load though....I'll keep you posted on what I come up with.

Good luck,
Inmysights

 

[OSOK]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-03 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]AW,

I think you'll be fine w/ 295's on elk, @ 100 and closer. I was thinking about going w/ the 245's, since deer are my #1 priority. However the chances of me getting into a bull as well, made me decide to stick w/ the 295's. I plan on taggin anything w/i 150-75 yards, so @ 100, I'm sure you're more than safe. Just be sure you have a good solid rest, and place the bullet in the vitals.

We were running spit patches between every 2-3... Gonna try a new system out though, tommorow, when I go bust a few w/ the new Omega.

Good luck

Have heard and been told that the ffg, is the way to go w/ the 777.

 

[fairchase]

I run a spit patch after every shot, and it keeps my barrel quite clean, almost like the first shot of a hunt on a clean barrel. Then after about 10 or so shots I'll use a nylon brush and a patch to get anything that gets missed.
With 777 all I use at home is tap water to clean and when everything is dry, Rem oil to finish.

 

[AirWis]

Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[TripleSe7en]

Fairchase

After reading your post about water-cleaning, I hope you realize water removes powder fouling but not lead, plastic or copper. Your patch may be white prior to oiling... but your barrel is probably dirty.

 

[fairchase]

TripleSe7en,
I don't have any copper or lead fouling due to the fact that I shoot Powerbelts. Any plastic residue I have in my barrel is removed with the hot water and a bronze bore brush. Thanks for looking out for my best interest.

 

[TripleSe7en]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-03 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]Again Fairchase

When Powerbelt Co uses the word "virtual" to describe the lack of plastic residue left behind, that means "no proven evidence". Anything that's plastic which engages the rifling will leave residue over time... creating a hardening that H2O & bore brushes have a tendency to leave behind while scrubbing. Also, residue from the 209 primer becomes present in magnum barrel land & grooves over time when using the water-only method. I suggest some nitro solvent occasionally -- depending on the amount of shots fired.

Just looking out for ya' pal!

 

[fairchase]

I have never used a 209 primer, so I can't say I have any experience with them.

As far as powerbelts, after three years of shooting them and cleaning with only water and sometimes a little windex or dish soap. I have not experienced any loss of accuracy I generally associate with plastic build-up. If I do though, I will keep your suggestion in mind. Thanks.

 

[bugleboy1]

New question. I drew a muzzleloader in NM and want to purchase a muzzleloader that I can use in most western states.
I have read the reg's in Utah, NM, CO, ID and Montana.

When they say flint or percussion is flint old style and percussion #11 or musket cap?

does 209 primer qualify for percussion?
(are all in lines percussion guns)?

I know everyone has a preference but I want a versatle gun. I been looking at the Remington and black diamond model mainly cause they shoot all 3 ignitions, does anyone know if they won't work in one of the aforementioned states)