For years I've fired conicals and rb's, and used real BP, and maintained my bores (.50 cal) with bore butter. Been very happy with all aspects of this with regard to accuracy, dependability, ease of cleaning, and ease of reloading. Now about a year ago I purchased a .45 cal CVA Kodiak. I've been using power belts, but haven't been way impressed, considering the caliber and the barrel length (28"). Anyway, the fella at Precision convinced me that with the barrel I have, I'll be better off with sabots - more accurate, less recoil, along with about 1/2 the price for the one's he prescribed (260 grain Elites). My question is should I strip the seasoned barrel with brake cleaner, and just switch over from my all natural, non-petro based system to just cleaning with water, drying, and oiling the bore? Is this the way to go when using sabots? Precision recommended using 777 powder, which I have, over the pyro pellets or BP, which I also have in stock. Any thoughts? I guess I'm just an old dog that kinda hates to give up on the BP and the seasoned bore. Thanks very much. Guy
sabot use question
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DallanC
Guest
What twist is your rifle? Anything slower than 1/38" and sabots wont be worth your time. 1/28 or 1/24" twists are optimal for sabots.
As for "seasoning" ... I dont think I'll go there
-DallanC
As for "seasoning" ... I dont think I'll go there
-DallanC
D
DallanC
Guest
>1 in 28" twist, but that's
>beside the point now, because
>I am going to be
>shooting these sabots. Actually what
>I want is help with
>how best to treat/clean the
>bore while at the range
>and in storage when using
>sabots. Thanks
Perfect twist. I am surprised you had bad accuracy with the conicals. Generally you cant over spin a projectile unless its really fast (like 40grn bullets out of a .22-250 at 5000fps).
Several things to keep in mind with sabots. You will get your absolute best accuracy out of a clean barrel. I swab between shots, even in hunting situations. I really like using patches only slightly damp with windex as my primary cleaner. I also like a slight film of borebutter on my barrel which I apply by a patch slightly saturated with it. Thats my gun though, others might like it differently.
On to accuracy. Load up your gun, take a couple careful shots, swabbing between, then walk down range 25ish feet and look for the spent sabots. They should look fine with only marks from the rifling on the outside. If you see tearing around the cup, ripped or torn petals, you either A) are shooting out of a really dirty bore, B) have a very rough bore, C) are using too much powder causing too much pressure on the sabot itself, D) are using low quality sabots.
You really want those spent sabots to appear in good enough shape they look like you could re-use'em (dont though lol).
From there, its just tuning the powder amount for the bullet combo you are using, just like any other load. In my .50 cals, I shoot 90 grns PyroRS under 240grn XTP's, and 120grns under 300grn XTPs. Both shoot extremely well in my MLs.
FFF / Pyro P burn cleaner than FF or Pyro RS grain size... but it also burns 10% hotter so loads must be reduced when using the finer powders.
Cleaning. You can get plastic buildup in your barrel which can take some scrubbing to remove. I use a brass brush with a small patch laid over it, soaked in Windex. Once I'm done with the cleaning, I run a patch down it that is saturated with BoreButter (I rub the butter into the patch so I dont end up with excess butter left down in the breech that can cause ignition problems later).
Any other questions just hollar, and dont forget to post pictures of those awsome "cloverleaf" groups you will undoubtably be getting
-DallanC
>beside the point now, because
>I am going to be
>shooting these sabots. Actually what
>I want is help with
>how best to treat/clean the
>bore while at the range
>and in storage when using
>sabots. Thanks
Perfect twist. I am surprised you had bad accuracy with the conicals. Generally you cant over spin a projectile unless its really fast (like 40grn bullets out of a .22-250 at 5000fps
).Several things to keep in mind with sabots. You will get your absolute best accuracy out of a clean barrel. I swab between shots, even in hunting situations. I really like using patches only slightly damp with windex as my primary cleaner. I also like a slight film of borebutter on my barrel which I apply by a patch slightly saturated with it. Thats my gun though, others might like it differently.
On to accuracy. Load up your gun, take a couple careful shots, swabbing between, then walk down range 25ish feet and look for the spent sabots. They should look fine with only marks from the rifling on the outside. If you see tearing around the cup, ripped or torn petals, you either A) are shooting out of a really dirty bore, B) have a very rough bore, C) are using too much powder causing too much pressure on the sabot itself, D) are using low quality sabots.
You really want those spent sabots to appear in good enough shape they look like you could re-use'em (dont though lol).
From there, its just tuning the powder amount for the bullet combo you are using, just like any other load. In my .50 cals, I shoot 90 grns PyroRS under 240grn XTP's, and 120grns under 300grn XTPs. Both shoot extremely well in my MLs.
FFF / Pyro P burn cleaner than FF or Pyro RS grain size... but it also burns 10% hotter so loads must be reduced when using the finer powders.
Cleaning. You can get plastic buildup in your barrel which can take some scrubbing to remove. I use a brass brush with a small patch laid over it, soaked in Windex. Once I'm done with the cleaning, I run a patch down it that is saturated with BoreButter (I rub the butter into the patch so I dont end up with excess butter left down in the breech that can cause ignition problems later).
Any other questions just hollar, and dont forget to post pictures of those awsome "cloverleaf" groups you will undoubtably be getting
-DallanC
M
MLKeith
Guest
Most do not recommend using bore butter with sabots. I know some do and apparently have good luck with that. I shot a fair amount of powerbelts with a clean bore (no borebutter) and have had good results up to 100 yards. I have not shot them further than that for accuracy checks. I also do not believe in the "seasoning" of the bore claims as the newer barrel steel is not the same as the older iron barrels. Too much bore butter and the plastic skirts might be skipping the rifling with heavier charges.
D
DallanC
Guest
>Most do not recommend using bore
>butter with sabots. I know
>some do and apparently have
>good luck with that.
The reason I started trying it is that I started noticing melted plastic along the rifling grooves due to friction. I assume that as the rifling lands put extra pressure on that point of the sabot, and as it melts, that material is scrapped off. It could loosen the grip the riflings have on the sabot itself causing some accuracy deteriation, hence my trying loads with only a "slight" film of borebutter on the barrel. Recovered sabots shot in this fashion didnt have any of the previous melting.
By "slight film" I mean I put a small amount on my finger, then work it into a patch so the patch appears only slightly "oily". I run that up and down the barrel once and it leaves only the slightest film.
-DallanC
>butter with sabots. I know
>some do and apparently have
>good luck with that.
The reason I started trying it is that I started noticing melted plastic along the rifling grooves due to friction. I assume that as the rifling lands put extra pressure on that point of the sabot, and as it melts, that material is scrapped off. It could loosen the grip the riflings have on the sabot itself causing some accuracy deteriation, hence my trying loads with only a "slight" film of borebutter on the barrel. Recovered sabots shot in this fashion didnt have any of the previous melting.
By "slight film" I mean I put a small amount on my finger, then work it into a patch so the patch appears only slightly "oily". I run that up and down the barrel once and it leaves only the slightest film.
-DallanC
Packed everything into truck. Drove 8 miles to Fish & Game club range. Let myself through the locked gate. Unloaded all gear. Realized I had forgotten to bring the very saboted bullets I was interested in shooting!! DARN. Well I did have about 30 of the 195 grain aero tipped PBs (.45 cal.)with me, and I'd never tried them w/ the Triple Seven ffg, so I said what the heck, that's what I'll do. Better than nothing. I tried groups with 100, 110, & 120 grains of 777, all at 100 yards. 209 Winchester primers. Leupold 2-7 x33 VX II. Best group was with 110 grains - 4 shots, 2 inch spread. The heck of it is, this is significantly better than I'd ever done using same bullet with 100 and 150 gr. of pyrodex pellets. So I'm happy after all. I wiped with a licked patch and a dry patch between shots. I hope to get a chance soon to try the sabots too. Will clean with windex, water, and finish up with rem oil. Sorry, no pictures....have to take this high tech stuff one step at a time!
D
DallanC
Guest
As far as accuracy regarding powder, I've found in my guns:
PyroRS > FF black powder > .... > Triple 7.
Triple 7 is the single worst, most inaccurate powder i've ever tried. I burned half a bottle trying various bullet / powder amounts in 2 guns before giving up and going back to Pyro RS. Its amusing as the first group after switching back to RS went under 2".
"if it aint broke..."
-DallanC
PyroRS > FF black powder > .... > Triple 7.
Triple 7 is the single worst, most inaccurate powder i've ever tried. I burned half a bottle trying various bullet / powder amounts in 2 guns before giving up and going back to Pyro RS. Its amusing as the first group after switching back to RS went under 2".
"if it aint broke..."
-DallanC
I recommend you stay w/ the RS! I've always heard that every barrel has it's own taste, even the same model barrels in two different guns. I've since actually measured the aforememtioned group. Not w/ calipers, but w/ a tape. Three of the shots were touching in a short diagonal string, and the fourth was actually 1 1/2" from the furthest one from it center to center. Now if I can only hold it steady when hunting!
B
bigblock455
Guest
Dont expect good bullet performance on game with that tiny bullet and that massive amount of powder. Powerbelts perform best on rib shots "lung" I am shooting a sidelock .45 with 60 grains pyrodex RS And a 225 powerbelt. If you want to shoot those kind of charges, i suggest you go with the 300 grain powerbelt platinum.
>Packed everything into truck. Drove 8
>miles to Fish & Game
>club range. Let myself through
>the locked gate. Unloaded all
>gear. Realized I had forgotten
>to bring the very saboted
>bullets I was interested in
>shooting!! DARN. Well I did
>have about 30 of the
>195 grain aero tipped PBs
>(.45 cal.)with me, and I'd
>never tried them w/ the
>Triple Seven ffg, so I
>said what the heck, that's
>what I'll do. Better than
>nothing. I tried groups with
>100, 110, & 120 grains
>of 777, all at 100
>yards. 209 Winchester primers. Leupold
>2-7 x33 VX II. Best
>group was with 110 grains
>- 4 shots, 2 inch
>spread. The heck of it
>is, this is significantly better
>than I'd ever done using
>same bullet with 100 and
>150 gr. of pyrodex pellets.
>So I'm happy after all.
>I wiped with a licked
>patch and a dry patch
>between shots. I hope to
>get a chance soon to
>try the sabots too. Will
>clean with windex, water, and
>finish up with rem oil.
> Sorry, no pictures....have to
>take this high tech stuff
>one step at a time!
>
>Packed everything into truck. Drove 8
>miles to Fish & Game
>club range. Let myself through
>the locked gate. Unloaded all
>gear. Realized I had forgotten
>to bring the very saboted
>bullets I was interested in
>shooting!! DARN. Well I did
>have about 30 of the
>195 grain aero tipped PBs
>(.45 cal.)with me, and I'd
>never tried them w/ the
>Triple Seven ffg, so I
>said what the heck, that's
>what I'll do. Better than
>nothing. I tried groups with
>100, 110, & 120 grains
>of 777, all at 100
>yards. 209 Winchester primers. Leupold
>2-7 x33 VX II. Best
>group was with 110 grains
>- 4 shots, 2 inch
>spread. The heck of it
>is, this is significantly better
>than I'd ever done using
>same bullet with 100 and
>150 gr. of pyrodex pellets.
>So I'm happy after all.
>I wiped with a licked
>patch and a dry patch
>between shots. I hope to
>get a chance soon to
>try the sabots too. Will
>clean with windex, water, and
>finish up with rem oil.
> Sorry, no pictures....have to
>take this high tech stuff
>one step at a time!
>
DallanC - I just checked out your website mentioned in the "site" thread in General Hunting. Great site, do you accept members from the eastern time zone? I promise, I'm not a democrat, if that'll help! check out my site, www.mainetrophymoose.com, if you get a chance.
D
DallanC
Guest
>DallanC - I just checked out
>your website mentioned in the
>"site" thread in General Hunting.
>Great site, do you accept
>members from the eastern time
>zone? I promise, I'm not
>a democrat, if that'll help!
>check out my site, www.mainetrophymoose.com,
>if you get a chance.
I think I actually have more EST people than any other time zone lol! We have members from all around the world atm, OZ, Africa, Europe, NZ ... its pretty neat.
We dont get the posting traffic of alot of sites, but we do have a tremedous amount of extremely knowledgable people visiting / answering questions on a regular basis. Overall Traffic is increasing dramatically from month to month which is fun... the record for most hits per hour is over 5000! Crazy for a site that started off as a hobby.
Anyway pull up a chair over there and enjoy the fun
PS: I visited your site, very nice and some really terrific most harvests. Hopefully someday I win the lotto and can afford some trophy hunts. I have 12 moose points in utah and fear I still will never draw
-DallanC
>your website mentioned in the
>"site" thread in General Hunting.
>Great site, do you accept
>members from the eastern time
>zone? I promise, I'm not
>a democrat, if that'll help!
>check out my site, www.mainetrophymoose.com,
>if you get a chance.
I think I actually have more EST people than any other time zone lol! We have members from all around the world atm, OZ, Africa, Europe, NZ ... its pretty neat.
We dont get the posting traffic of alot of sites, but we do have a tremedous amount of extremely knowledgable people visiting / answering questions on a regular basis. Overall Traffic is increasing dramatically from month to month which is fun... the record for most hits per hour is over 5000! Crazy for a site that started off as a hobby.
Anyway pull up a chair over there and enjoy the fun
PS: I visited your site, very nice and some really terrific most harvests. Hopefully someday I win the lotto and can afford some trophy hunts. I have 12 moose points in utah and fear I still will never draw
-DallanC
D
DallanC
Guest
My site is mainly for firearms / shooting / ballistics but we have a bunch of discussion on hunting as well.
www.huntingnut.com
-DallanC
www.huntingnut.com
-DallanC
