SB196 Burn out!!!!!!!!

[NMPaul]

Is anyone else burned out on SB196 "sky is falling" posts??

For crissakes it seems like every group thinks the end of the world is coming.

When all this is done (for this year) there will still be the same # of hunts as before (about 30% to many in my opinion, but, that is a different story).

If you want to hunt in NM there will be a way to do it.


If you want to take personal control over the situation, go out and find some kids that want to hunt or someone else that has never hunted and get them involved. They can apply for hunts as well as you and your odds of getting out in the field go through the roof.

How bout some pictures posted up.
barbary, javelina, duck, fishing or just field pics.

 

[npaden]

Sorry Paul, there is no provisions for non-resident youth in the New Mexico hunting regulations, just New Mexico residents.

I try to take folks hunting on my place here in Texas, the odds are 100% of getting a tag even for non-residents here.

It really does feel like the sky is falling when the place you just fell in love with as a hunting destination just basically said good ridance and is in the process of shutting you out from possibly ever hunting there again in your lifetime.

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

I am so burned out on reading all the posts and all the bologna that came out of SB196 that at this point I dont care what they do with the tags after this year, I am not going to apply in nm anymore and just apply for hunts in other states! life is to short to worry about things like, besides there are alot Elk here in Utah I can chase every year without a worrie.

 

[fishfurlife]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]Did somebody say Waterfowl?????? I like me some waterfowl hunting.

Well Paul, you pretty much tripped my trigger with that comment so here is your picture flood.

Please don't make me keep going...........

 

[NMPaul]

>Sorry Paul, there is no provisions
>for non-resident youth in the
>New Mexico hunting regulations, just
>New Mexico residents.
>
>I try to take folks hunting
>on my place here in
>Texas, the odds are 100%
>of getting a tag even
>for non-residents here.
>
>It really does feel like the
>sky is falling when the
>place you just fell in
>love with as a hunting
>destination just basically said good
>ridance and is in the
>process of shutting you out
>from possibly ever hunting there
>again in your lifetime.


Nathan, not true. My nephew from out of state has come out on a NM youth hunt 2 years in a row.

I will be the first to admit, that finding quality hunting is work. It can be done. It takes research.
I wish it was easier, but, there is only so many quality hunts and there are lots of people that want them.

Unfortunately, I think how complicated hunting and getting tags is, has kept new people and those not into it to get out of hunting.

 

[NMPaul]

Dang thats a lot of geese. I hope you got some good recipes.

Would love to see a big old goose fall out of the sky.

Have shot at a goose one time. Emptied the gun and they all flew away.

 

[fishfurlife]

Lots of jerky. Every hunt I will slice them up and start soaking them. Believe it or not, they make really good jerky. I soak them for a few days and try to change the water 3 or 4 times before marinading them.

If you ever get lost out this way during season, I am always up for taking guys out.

 

[billc]

I guess you could always stop reading those post.Half the problem is people stop talking or caring as long as there not affected by what is going on.Maybe use non res now have hit our 10% of talking about stuff on here to.If more people would have spoke up years ago maybe we would be hunting more states more often.I already take my son hunting but sure would like to know I could get him a tag with out paying thousands for a landowner tag.This Bill looks like it will hurt youth hunting for non rees to.I respect alot of people on this new mexico part of the site but wish more would think of more then themselves.

 

[NMPaul]

Bill, your entitled to your opinion.

If you want to get your son hunting I see no problem at all. There are lots of youth opportunities out there if you do the leg work.
Like I said, my nephew has come out 2 years in a row on a youth hunt and has seen some nice bucks.

 

[billc]

Well paul i look at you as one of the good guys on here.You get kids into hunting and all your family for that matter.It is not as easy being from out of state to find those hidden gems to take my son hunting.So I hire a guide to help out with plans when my son is older to do some diy hunts.This new Bill will make that next to zero chance of that happening.Plus even the youth hunts will take a hit with this new system.AS you know first hand from trying to draw tags from out of state 10% to non res stinks.I just hate seeing a system most hunters dont like being looked at as a good thing now.Plus know matter what anyone thinks this will hurt the wildlife from less funds being taken in.There is no way a 90.00 lic will make up for all the tag money lost by non res lic sales period.I feel bad for some of the small business that get that extra income coming hunting season as of 2012 if this goes through they will feel it the worst.As I keep saying we should all give something back to make a fair system for all.

 

[NMPaul]

Bill, there are several youth hunts that have better drawing odds than residents right now.

My son has been putting in for one for 4 years with out drawing and my nephew from out of state has drawn it the only 2 years he has applied.

How all this is going to change, none of us know yet. What I do know, is the harder is researched hunts the more and better ones I found.
I sent you a PM with some ideas.

 

[tailgunner]

Amen on SB196 burn out.And heres some NM youth hunts last year.

I'm not sure what happened to that pic.

 

[NMPaul]

Great year tailgunner.

Good job getting those kids out young.

People would be surprised what a 8-9 yr old can do with good instruction, patience and an opportunity.

 

[DoeNob]

Here here! Some pictures.

Sandhill crane hunting near lubbock a couple weeks back. I know it ain't New Mexico, but with the 50 mph winds I coulda probably spit and hit it. :

Big mulie, private land archery NW NM. We taped him at 171 green, not bad for a 3x4,and the junk on his forehead is pretty neat. Spot and stalk taken at 9 yards. Can't wait to get him back from the taxi!

A javelina in the Gila:

Punchin first elk tag:

It was a great year in NM, got my 3rd pope and young deer, pictured above, drew 16D 2nd rifle first time applying and got my first elk with my dad. That was special because he's wanted an elk for years and we both punched tags, not the monsters we know are in there, but better than tag soup!

 

[sportsman01]

Here's my first sheep taken in 34 two years ago. Never got around to posting the pic, so here it is. Also, my first javelina with a bow this yr. Arrowed him at 16 yds.

 

[nightstalker]

Heres my Jan deer

I support a 90/10 split and overhaul of LO tag system. Lets hope the lawmakers don't screw anything up too bad. I've had good luck the past few years with drawing tags but I do know plenty of people who have not been hunting in quite some time.

 

[nightstalker]

Heres a pic of some fun a buddy and I had during that below zero cold snap last week. We called from noon til 4:30. Saw 16 dogs. Shot at 6. 1 miss (me).

 

[sab]

Burned Out? Heck, I'm just gettin' fired up. NMPaul, you do realize that if the legislature makes a mistake, it could result in a serious loss in revenue to the state for use in wildlife management, don't you? This loss in revenue, if not corrected, would result in poor hunt quality that could take generations to fix. Ultimately, when you take that kid hunting, you may only see tumbleweeds rolling where the muleys used to rut...

To me, this is not a trivial matter. The legislature better examine what the true effects of their changes might be before they go throwin' a wrench into things!

Scott

 

[EVILNR]

I really believe there is more to this than meets the eye.
This is part of a much larger plan.
I dont know what that plan is, but it reeks of socialism.

 

[nmelktrout]

Burnout for certain....the loss of revenue argument holds no ground in the long-term picture and this has been made crystal clear to the legislature. Too few public land tags will actually go back to New Mexicans for that argument to hold water. For the most part, public land tags simply do not generate the income that LO tags do.

Besides, New Mexico is also unique in that it is a State where a hard working individual can purchase a LO in a solid unit every year if he really is concerned with contributing to New Mexico's economy. New Mexico is currently the easiest state for nonresidents to apply in and New Mexico residents apparently wish to have a few more of tags available to them. Your odds of drawing a tag as a nonresident in New Mexico will still be greater than they are in most Western states. Heck, research your draw odds and you could probably hunt down here every year even after the change comes into effect.

I'm going oryx hunting....with my buddies from Oregon. See a 250 with Oregon plates on the Stallion and give me a wave (or the finger)...

-Cody

 

[NMPaul]

Nightstalker, doenob, sportsman01. Great pics.

Way to put the hurt on coyotes.

Everyone needs to take the day off from SB196 and go kill some coyotes.

 

[greatwestern]

"I really believe there is more to this than meets the eye.
This is part of a much larger plan.
I dont know what that plan is, but it reeks of socialism. "

well there you go, my 'evil' friend...exactly what i've been trying to illustrate on here regarding the stupid frikken bill, and more particularly its direct proponents

pretty damn transparent, to me and a few others anyway...

but the general demographic around here is quite thick, exceedingly myopic, and quite fond of obnoxious and empty bickering

so screw it...anyways, great pictures everyone!

 

[npaden]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 02:42PM (MST)[p]>Burnout for certain....the loss of revenue
>argument holds no ground in
>the long-term picture and this
>has been made crystal clear
>to the legislature. Too
>few public land tags will
>actually go back to New
>Mexicans for that argument to
>hold water. For the most
>part, public land tags simply
>do not generate the income
>that LO tags do.
>
>Besides, New Mexico is also unique
>in that it is a
>State where a hard working
>individual can purchase a LO
>in a solid unit every
>year if he really is
>concerned with contributing to New
>Mexico's economy. New Mexico
>is currently the easiest state
>for nonresidents to apply in
>and New Mexico residents apparently
>wish to have a few
>more of tags available to
>them. Your odds of
>drawing a tag as a
>nonresident in New Mexico will
>still be greater than they
>are in most Western states.
> Heck, research your draw
>odds and you could probably
>hunt down here every year
>even after the change comes
>into effect.
>
>I'm going oryx hunting....with my buddies
>from Oregon. See a
>250 with Oregon plates on
>the Stallion and give me
>a wave (or the finger)...
>
>
>-Cody

There are so many holes in your comments that it is almost funny, except for the part that you really think what you are saying is actually true. :-(

The loss of income will be measurable. I'm guessing somewhere around $1,000,000. Not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things, but still not pocket change to the NMDGF budget.

As far as landowner tags, I wouldn't hold my breath on them. NMWF has already been after them and they would be next on the chopping block. I also think that landowner tags will increase in value quite a bit if this passes, so the hard working individual will also need a trust fund to be able to afford them.

The comment about New Mexico being the easiest western state to apply in currently and the comment that the odds will still be better than most other western states is WAY off the mark.

As a nonresident I can buy an elk tag OTC in Colorado and Idaho. I can pretty much guarantee to draw an elk tag in Wyoming every year if I work the system right. Montana is pretty much a guaranteed draw every other year as a non-resident. That's 4 states with better odds for non-residents than New Mexico's current system.

If the non-resident cut does go to 2% the odds will become the worst of any western state that I know of. Oregon and Washington currently have that designation at 5% non-resident quotas. Odds will be better in Nevada, Utah and Arizona than they would be for New Mexico if the bill passes as it is currently. General consensus is that Arizona, Nevada and Utah have higher trophy quality than New Mexico and your odds will be better in those states, plus they all have point systems so that you will pretty much be guaranteed to draw after a certain number of years so it makes some sense to apply year after year.

Oh well, it is becoming more and more evident that the majority of New Mexico residents just want to stick it to the non-residents and will justify it any way they can. Even if it isn't true.

 

[ELKMAN]

Those are some nice pics!

If a person is tired of reading about 196, I have a suggestion do not read the thread.

I know NMP is the moderator. If you are so sick of it, pass the torch on.

I know this is NM, but I like how hunters are getting fired up! The system is a joke!

 

[NMPaul]

>Those are some nice pics!
>
>If a person is tired of
>reading about 196, I have
>a suggestion do not read
>the thread.
>
>I know NMP is the moderator.
> If you are so
>sick of it, pass the
>torch on.
>
>I know this is NM, but
>I like how hunters are
>getting fired up! The
>system is a joke!


elkman, who else is gonna check your whacked out midnight posts at 5 am in the morning before they go sheep hunting?

 

[DUKFVR]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 06:58AM (MST)[p]Here is a pic of me & twdjr with some white devils we killed earlier this season.

twdjr

 

[Gator]

SB 196 will give better odds of drawing a tag for NR, Who told you that line must be a card carrying memeber of NMWF. But believe what you will but even a 5th grader can see the amount of hunters (NR) that will drop out the draws with only a 2% chance for a DIY hunter.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[habitat]

I bet it doesn't improve the odds because tag numbers will be so low,what other states do you apply in and would you feel the same way if those states did that

 

[nmelktrout]

We killed a nice bull on the stallion today. Npaden, as you know, NM is a great state to draw a tag in. Read some of the actual literature supporting the bill and you will see where I come from. Also if New Mexico is not have one of the best quality draw odds then why bother getting so fired up or keep putting in here. New Mexico will be just fine...

 

[npaden]

> Npaden,
> as you know, NM
>is a great state to
>draw a tag in. Read
>some of the actual literature
>supporting the bill and you
>will see where I come
>from. Also if New
>Mexico is not have one
>of the best quality draw
>odds then why bother getting
>so fired up or keep
>putting in here. New Mexico
>will be fine.....

I have read the literature with the bill and if you believe that nonresident applications will stay the same if the bill passes like it states in the support for the bill then I have some oceanfront property here in Lubbock for sale.

I do think New Mexico is a great state to hunt in, but it doesn't have the best drawing odds for nonresidents by any means. The biggest reason I decided to apply in New Mexico was that it seemed crazy to be driving through it to go hunting in Wyoming and Montana. I live a whopping 90 miles from New Mexico so it makes sense to hunt there instead of driving 1,100 miles to hunt in Wyoming. I admit, I'm being selfish wanting to hunt multiple states, but I think if you are being honest with yourself you have to admit that the 2% is over the top.

 

[nmelktrout]

Npaden. Do you actually realize how few tags other states give to nonresidents in decent or high end units compared to New Mexico? Pick up this month's Hunt'n Fool as a starting point. New Mexicans are supporting this bill and the main opposition our legislators are seeing on this bill is from nonresident hunters. The economic impacts are not in line with most of the crap being posted on forums right now. As someone who hunts and fishes all over the United States, I have a healthy perspective on just how good a nonresident has it here. Our citizens have decided that they would like to slightly increase their draw odds and unfortunately this will come at the cost of nonresidents as it has in many other states. Come back in two years and we will see if every small town and outfitter has gone belly-up as a result of the new tag allotment. It's okay, the sky is NOT falling. If you are so passionate come up to Santa Fe and meet some legislators and argue this with those who are in a position to do something about it. I could get you some face time if you would come here for something other than hunting.

 

[YukonDall]

AT 2 %.........I"M DONE AS WELL IN NM..............YD.

 

[crazeymaez]

+1 Cody.Nm is very very fair to NR.

By the way I'm neutral,On this topic.But I thought I would give all you guys bickering of how unfair NM is.


Nevada Antlered NR elk Archery hunt 4261

Unit group Quota
072,074 3
076,077,079,081 1
111-115,221,222 6
231,241,242 4

total 14

Nevada Antlered NR elk muzzleloader hunt 4256

Unit group Quota
072,074 2
111-115,221,222 4
231,241,242 3

total 9


Grand total whole state of NV with archery and Muzzleloading equipment

Grand total 23


NM UNIT 52 at 2% NR

1st archery hunt 5
2nd archery hunt 5
1st rifle hunt 5
2nd rifle hunt 5
MI muzzle 1
muzzle hunt 2

Grand total 23

ONE UNIT OFFERS THE SAME AMOUNT OF TAGS AS THE WHOLE STATE OF NEVADA Archery & muzzle.While you guys are calling Legislatures and Senators Call NV and tell them how unfair there system is to me the NM NR.

 

[ICMDEER]

I'm done as well if this bill passes. And even though I am a nonresident, I have written to the NM senators.

I've written this before, but I live in Wyoming and nonresidents get great odds of drawing all of our areas. It goes from 20% to 40% for nonresidents depending upon which species. WAY BETTER than New Mexico is now and it may be 20 times better if this bill goes through. The information saying NM will still have better odds than other states just does not sell, especially when compared to Wyoming.

 

[crazeymaez]

Ok lets do WYO not Trying to argue just giving examples
how fair NM is because we issue so many tags.
Lets compare 2 similar units WYO unit 102 & NM 2B


Wyoming antlered deer hunt unit 102

Quota for NR

Preferance point tags 31
random tags 10

special draw 21
special random 7

Grand total 69

NM antlerd 2B hunts

1ST rifle (youth) 150
1st rifle 275
2nd rifle 375
3rd rifle 450
1st archery 130
2nd archery 180
1st archery (youth) 20
2nd archery (youth) 50
muzzleloader 175
muzzleloader (youth) 20

Grand total 1825

LETS SAY 5% GO TO NR 91 NR tags

The sky is not falling....

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

Crazy you should more like nm 16d to nv 231 Elk! not nm 52

 

[nmelktrout]

Bottom line is pretty simple as far as New Mexico is concerned. Compared to the other Western big game states, New Mexico currently has the lowest percentage of draw licenses available to its residents. New Mexican hunters and small businesses are tired of this and have voiced their opinions to their local legislators and lobbyists. It's fairly obvious that nonresidents do not like this. I understand this as I do not like the draw odds I face as a NR in most every other Western state. New Mexico is tightening its belt and will likely be giving back to its citizens in the form of more available hunting opportunities.

Wyoming does not have better draw odds for some species, in fact, NM provides up to 80% of tags for some species to nonresidents...and sometimes for sheep, it's 100% nonresident tag allocation. Also, let us not forget that Wyoming has tremendous numbers of deer and antelope, which NM does not. My parents and siblings live in Colorado, Wyoming and Alaska so I have a healthy perspective on draw odds, tag allocations, species populations, etc...

To those of you who choose not to apply in New Mexico IF this bill passes. Thank you for increasing the draw odds of my many nonresident friends and family who will continue to hunt NM.

Also, we hear you, we continue to hear you, and we're pretty tired of it at this point...

Please also keep in mind that many of the NM forum members that many of you have been arguing with, speaking down to, and belittling are also the guys that go out of their/our ways help nonresident hunters have successful hunts than anyone else. We have one of the best forum groups by state on this site and I for one intend on keeping it this way.

-Cody

 

[crazeymaez]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]Fishfry Since its a 3 unit draw lets compare our top 3
to keep it equal

NR Elk antlered any legal weapon Quota

Unit group 231,241,242.... 10

NR elk antlered archery

Unit group 231,241,242.... 4

NR elk antlered muzzleloader

Unit group 231,241,242.... 3


Grand total 17



NM units 16a 16d 16b


16A Quota

1ST Archery 150
2nd archery 150
3rd archery 100
1st rifle (MI) 25
1st rifle 75
2nd rifle 125

16b

1st archery 130
2nd archery 130
3rd archery 130
1st rifle 160
2nd rifle 160

16d

1st archery 60
2nd archery 50
3rd arhery 40
1st rifle (MI) 25
1st rifle 55
2nd rifle 50

Grand Total 1615
At 2% NR draw odds 32 permits
At 22% NR what it now 355 permits
These #s dont include LO tags.Man the NR have it bad here
So right now these 3 units give more tags than the whole
state of NV all weapons by probably 150 permits



And by the way this ain't including cow hunts
Remember we still have 16C 17 13 which are no
Slouch units either.

One more fact NV gives 2745 youth deer permits
Guess how many of them go to NR Zip,zilch ,nada
NR cannot put in for there youth tags.Any more comparisons
For me the NM NR.Im free all day..

 

[npaden]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 01:17PM (MST)[p]There is no point in even trying to discuss it when you guys start off on tangents like that. The fact comes down to the % of tags going to non-residents. If you want to move to Nevada go ahead, the odds for residents there are MUCH worse than the odds for New Mexico residents are right now before any change to the system. There is a much smaller population of elk in Nevada so just comparing numbers of tags is very deciving. Just because there are fewer elk doesn't mean their method of allocating tags between residents and nonresidents isn't fair.

Montana gives out almost as many elk tags to nonresidents as New Mexico has total nonresident applicants. Does that make their system more or less fair?

You need to actually compare the % of tags going to residents versus the tags going to nonresidents to really get a feel for if the system is fair IMO.

The fact is that there are several western states that give out a higher % of tags to nonresidents than New Mexico does with their current 22% allocation. Colorado and Idaho both offer OTC tags to nonresidents, You can draw an elk tag in Wyoming every year pretty much, and in Montana you can pretty much guarantee a tag every other year.

The 2% currently proposed is a slap in the face.

Whatever happens is going to happen, but don't kid yourself into thinking it isn't going to put New Mexico dead last on the pecking order of which western states have a fair allocation of nonresident tags. Also don't kid yourself into thinking that the resulting drop off in nonresident revenue isn't going to have to be made up by significant increases in resident license costs.

Sorry to upset anyone with posting my thoughts on this subject. I'll stop posting in the New Mexico forum since I am not a resident. Keep patting yourselves on the back and telling yourself that this is a fair deal to the nonguided nonresident hunter.

 

[crazeymaez]

We do not offer OTC hunts so trying to compare us to a state that does is Non-sense.And have you ever been on an over the counter hunt.You thought the Barbary hunt looked like Mad Max

 

[philthy]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]With all the belly aching, you'd think this law was passed already....sheesh! There was a bill last year to create a San Juan River habitat stamp with the monies going to directly fund river improvements. I believe it was $5 for residents and $10 for NR. It DIED in committee, after all the talk about how people would boycott if it passed.

Why can't you guys see the normal residents just want a better opportunity since we live here? To lump the majority of us in with outfitters and landowners is flat out WRONG, but that's obviously been overlooked by a lot of you.

My family is from TX and there's nothing I'd rather do than have my brothers come out for an elk hunt. I could bring it up about hunting there for the "public's" animals being behind locked gates, but that's different, right?

Keep writing letters and making phone calls. Remember, this has to pass the Senate AND the House, then signed by the Governor to become law. If you wanna huff and puff and say you're gonna boycott NM anyway, why don't you do the rest of the NRs a favor and not apply THIS year?

The mafia needs it's back broken and I hope that'll happen in the final legislation.

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

Wow thank you for clearing that for me Crazy. I must have had a brain f!rt today, I really hope you get your wish and this bill passes, so you have some closure

 

[nmelktrout]

aden, tangets? You've confused issues and percentages here, not to mention quality of unit to tag allotments. Furthermore, New Mexico has the lowest percentage of tags going to residents than any other western state. Period. Furthermore, this percentage is the very comparison this bill deals with. I think we have a healthy understanding of what is going on here.

You have stated in every one of your posts that you don't think the system is fair, I think we get that. This obviously causes you react with emotion when you read posts you don't completely understand or agree with. Got it. Nobody here is kidding ourselves, nor are the people reading the actual US Fish and Wildlife statistics which clearly show that in New Mexico (and similar states with low nonresident tag availability), resident hunters account for the majority of all the money spent on hunting. (This is true not only in New Mexico, but in many other states). Furthermore, resident hunters account for 95% of hunting equipment sales in New Mexico... The same general statistical data is available for many other states.

If you don't like it come move here, pay taxes here and apply as a resident here, or, continue to live in Texas(?) and just don't spend your money here. Go to Colorado and kill the OTC raghorn bulls that Colorado manages for. Someone else most certainly will fill your spot and spend money here, regardless of whether that person is a resident or nonresident. This is the last word I will have on this subject on this website and I would appreciate it if it would be yours and the other vocal non-New Mexicans as well. Too many New Mexicans are complaining about not drawing tags, too many local businesses are complaining about nonresident hunters AND locals not spending money on hunting goods and hunting-related activities for us to continue with the current allotment scheme.

If you want help hunting in New Mexico, myself and many other NM forum members are more than happy to give a hand. Just don't come on here and tell us how to run our state. The federal government does enough of that...

-Cody

 

[billc]

I did not see anyone say nm is unfair now.It how they our trying to screw us non res now with this bill.Everyone keeps saying how unfair all these other states are so lets make our state like that to.The logic behind I cant draw nv or any other state so lets change the system to screw someone else is nothing but greed.Plus if you think all nm residents support this your crazy.No one is saying that all nm business will fold up but most will feel the affect.The place that butchered my sons elk.The camp ground would be hit by better then 80% lose of business plus all the butchering of animals from that 80% who do harvest.Easy to say it will not hurt any business when it is not yours taking the lose.People need to stop kidding themselves about the non res. dollars that helps nm and the wildlife.

 

[crazeymaez]

Fishfry,Like I said i'm Neutral on this argument.
Just trying to point out that if you decide to take your
hunting money eleswhere,You will find NM is one of the fairest when it comes to the NR.With the PP creep in most states
You will be waiting along time if you do get to hunt.

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

>Fishfry,Like I said i'm Neutral on
>this argument.
>Just trying to point out that
>if you decide to take
>your
>hunting money eleswhere,You will find
>NM is one of the
>fairest when it comes to
>the NR.With the PP creep
>in most states
>You will be waiting along time
>if you do get to
>hunt.


Crazy I understand that you and most of New mexico res hunters feel like us nr have been taking alot of your tags from you and others hunter, But 2% is just nutz! I think if it was a strait across 90/10 most every body would be happy. I would!

 

[SDBugler]

"If you want to hunt in NM there will be a way to do it.

If you want to take personal control over the situation, go out and find some kids that want to hunt or someone else that has never hunted and get them involved. They can apply for hunts as well as you and your odds of getting out in the field go through the roof."

Paul - This reponse it not directed at you. I think you are one of the greatest guys on this site and I respect you. You have been very helpful to me and many others on this site. We both have the same values regarding youth & hunting. Several times I have posted on this site that NM provides the best opportunities for youth hunting of any state . However, SB 196 is going to kill virtually all opportunities for the DIY NR youth that come from average working families.

I have been putting together my application strategy for this year and noticed that SB 196 will really hurt worse than I had originally thought. After looking at this closer THE DIY NR YOUTH OPPORTUNITIES WILL ALMOST COMPLETELY BE ELIMINATED. Taking a look at bull elk opportunities for youth under current scenario & SB 196 scenario:

16C any weapon 25 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196
16E any weapon 25 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196
23 any weapon 25 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196
34 any weapon 75 total tags ? 7 NR DIY current ? 1 NR DIY under SB 196
55 any weapon 20 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196
13 muzzy 25 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196
15 muzzy 25 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196
17 muzzy 25 total tags ? 2 NR DIY current ? 0 NR DIY under SB 196

All youth bull elk 245 total tags ? 21 NR DIY current (8.6%) ? 1 NR DIY under SB 196 (0.4%)

SB 196 wont affect the guides much though. Looking at the same units for NR guided:

16C any weapon 25 total tags ? 3 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196
16E any weapon 25 total tags ? 3 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196
23 any weapon 25 total tags ? 3 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196
34 any weapon 75 total tags ? 9 NR guided current ? 6 NR guided under SB 196
55 any weapon 20 total tags ? 2 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196
13 muzzy 25 total tags ? 3 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196
15 muzzy 25 total tags ? 3 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196
17 muzzy 25 total tags ? 3 NR guided current ? 2 NR guided under SB 196

All youth bull elk 245 total tags ? 29 NR DIY current (11.8%) ? 20 NR DIY under SB 196 (8.2%)

The rich kids will still get to hunt, but NM is telling those kids that come from average working families that they are not welcome in their state.

The above scenario only illustrates the youth bull elk hunts but the same conditions will apply to ALL hunts including deer and antelope as well as the adult hunts. Any hunts that offer less than 50 tags the DIY NR will have no tags. THE TOTAL IMPACT OF SB 196 WILL BE WAY LESS THAN 2%.

 

[delmag1942]

Don't care but comparing Wyoming deer unit 102 to New Mexico 2B says nothing. 102 is a "premier" unit and 2B is an opportunity unit (from my reading), 2C may be a better comparison. Also the most comparable WY unit to compare to the 16's would be 7, where somewhere around 225+ any elk tags go to NR rather than that stingy NV. That all being said I will be in the NM draw in 2012+ either way, someone has to draw! Goog luck in 2011.

 

[NMPaul]

This 2% thing has everyone boogered. I really doubt it happens.

There are currently undersubscribed NR youth hunts. Will it change.
I think it may.
Will it be as bad as many think. I doubt it.

 

[HillbillyNnevada]

Yeah, sick of hearing about it. Scratched NM off my application list already.

I feel like the DIY NR was an easier target since Outifitters/Landowners are so powerful. Sort of like a wolf taking down the elk calf with a limp instead of going for the healthy bull.

 

[Gator]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-11 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]Please also keep in mind that many of the NM forum members that many of you have been arguing with, speaking down to, and belittling are also the guys that go out of their/our ways help nonresident hunters have successful hunts than anyone else. We have one of the best forum groups by state on this site and I for one intend on keeping it this way.

Cody just remember that if you hunt out-state thats a knife that cuts both ways, the same NR hunters who you are arguing/speaking down to/belittling with are the resident hunters of some other state, Back in "97" they passed the outfitter bill to get more hunters to come to NM to hunt and they did in pretty good numbers, Are the herd sizes still the same as them was in 97 or have they grown. Did they grow with the help of money from NR or LO ranches or was it just luck that they have increased in the amount of animals a unit now can carry.
You claim it all about the resident hunters, How about the ones who have help grew those herds now you want to shortchange them after they help build what you have.
I hope you do get what you want because, I see the way things are going right now the number of NR would be down no matter if you pass this bill or not, $4 gallon gas will stop alot, higher food prices will stop a few others, higher clothes prices will take out a few more, BUT you wouldn't have to worry about NR money because you will have all those resident hunters who wouldn't have the money ecomnics to worry about I guess those product increases wouldn't touch NM, Just saying in todays world you don't push money away from your state you try and draw it in and take a financial burden off your residents.



"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[delmag1942]

After reading a bunch of posts/ideas I have decided on a solution. I have no problem w/Nm going to 10%, but the 2% for unguided seems awfully low. Although it would not be implemented, how about reciprocity (as others have stated)for New Mexicans who want to hunt other states? Using Kansas as the easiest example.

216 Total NR mule deer tags.........4 for New Mexicans

21102 Total NR whitetail deer tags..422 for New Mexicans

Bet that would get a little attention!

 

[Ropinfool]

the quality of elk hunting in my unit was MUCH better in 97 then now.

hunting was much better in the 90's before the explosion of outfitters.

residents who want to will be much better off.