SFW/BGF Article

Honestly I'm disappointed. Perception is reality in this info-intense world. Hunters do not need this crap making front page news. The anti-hunting advocates (like the mainstream media) will clearly use this against us. It's too bad.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Why am I not shocked about the lack of accountability of last years funds?

Accounting by SFW is about as rare as Mexican Gray wolves in Utah...

Just sayin'.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 00:21AM (MST)[p]EDIT Spelling on Alinski

I got the BGF emails too. If Utah Legislatures are saying, "we know, quit emailing us" then what good is BGF now? And if BGF doesn't have any registered lobbyists in DC... why do they need our tags, our tax dollars, and our donations?

Ryan's email says, "Are you getting tired of the assault on hunting, abundant wildlife and the North American Model of Wildlife Management?"

The answer to Ryan's question is, "Yes, I am getting tired of the assault on hunting. And you and SFW are part of the problem."

SFW/BGF continue to ask for more money to fix every problem. They separate hunters into classes and divide us against each other. They literally follow the Alinski/Obama playbook to the letter. This isn't about wildlife. I'm convinced it's about money. Any wildlife benefit Utah sees, is only a tool for SFW to get more money by selling the next tag to the highest bidder. They use our money and our tags to better their product and profit.

SFW proved to me that they didn't represent hunters and fisherman during the Utah stream access debate. They stand with Big Money. They proved it again with the recent assault on Randy Newberg. Thankfully RMEF stood tall.

As for me, I'll continue to donate all I can to RMEF, DU, and the NRA. These groups are truly transparent with MY dollars, and I know what they stand for.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Ryan Benson just duped a bunch of folks into emailing the Utah legislators yesterday and saying, "give BGF another $300k for their 'very complex, political, legal, grass-roots effort.'"
 
ColoradoOak I hope you are not saying I am part of BGF I am not and I don't have anything to do with either other than getting emails form them.

You guys are correct on it being funny how they send this email out to get people to contact the legislators and then the next day this crap comes out. These guys keep coming out looking dirty as dirty can be and a guy like me falls for their crap. Then again why is it that Utah has such lack in accountability and allows these jackwagons to keep pulling this crap?
 
Senator Okerlund from Monroe sponsored the line item for the money.

The person listed #2 under Top Contributor on this campaign watchdog website is... "Ryan Benson Stagg Consulting" who gave $5,000 to Okerlund's campaign. It's probably a different Ryan Benson than the one mentioned in the article. Must be a coincidence, though Ryan D. Benson - Stag Legal Advisors is shown on MyUtahBar.org as a firm out of Bountiful.

http://static.votesmart.org/candidate/campaign-finance/95310/ralph-okerlund#.UTmKhVcaCK8

http://www.myutahbar.org/PublicDirectory/PublicDirectory.aspx?s=tag

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
ishootaRUM300, not at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to the two emails from Ryan Benson you posted yesterday afternoon. He suckered folks into emailing the Utah legislators to complain about wolves right before they would be deciding his fate on the $300k. Slick...
 
"They separate hunters into classes and divide us against each other."

Do you honestly believe that is their fault? A grown man blaming someone else for his "feelings"? How about some acountability on your part too?

" They literally follow the Alinski/Obama playbook to the letter."

Alinski is nothing but a catch phrase to scare people. These guys are playing the same political games that existed before Alinski was ever born.

" This isn't about wildlife. I'm convinced it's about money."

Its about both!

" Any wildlife benefit Utah sees, is only a tool for SFW to get more money by selling the next tag to the highest bidder."

That would be great.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 07:29AM (MST)[p]"Styler?s Aug. 6 letter to state purchasing officials four days after the contact was signed cites a provision in the division?s request for proposals that allows payment upon receipt of an invoice. State policy generally prohibits paying contracts upfront, but the state?s administrative rules allow agency heads to request early payment if they are willing to assume the risks, said Kent Beers, the state?s purchasing director.

Styler ? who two years ago in a legislative hearing called wolves "the resurrection of the T. rex," and "the perfect biological weapon" ? said Thursday he could not recall his letter requesting upfront payment of the contract"

***Anyone think he could pass a lie detector test on that last sentence statement not recalling a letter for a $300,000 upfront payment to Benson? Just when I thought there might be some gains in regards to that $5 per raffle ticket giveaway, here comes the next big boondoggle from Peay and Benson involving all the Utah taxpayer's money!!! Besides that $5K contribution by Benson there was another for $1,500 from Peay Consulting, so it looks like for $6,500 that Legislator put in a line item to pay them $300K. I'd say that's a pretty good return on an investment! Those two guys are a joke and a bigger detriment to conservation and hunting than PETA!

Oh, and thanks to Tristate for another real insightful post on his beliefs that are always contrary to any thread and all the posts that result!
 
>"They separate hunters into classes and
>divide us against each other."
>
>
>Do you honestly believe that is
>their fault? A grown
>man blaming someone else for
>his "feelings"? How about
>some acountability on your part
>too?
>
>" They literally follow the Alinski/Obama
>playbook to the letter."
>
>Alinski is nothing but a catch
>phrase to scare people.
>These guys are playing the
>same political games that existed
>before Alinski was ever born.
>
>
>" This isn't about wildlife. I'm
>convinced it's about money."
>
>Its about both!
>
>" Any wildlife benefit Utah sees,
>is only a tool for
>SFW to get more money
>by selling the next tag
>to the highest bidder."
>
>That would be great.



5813252849242_373d779ccd.jpg
 
Just recieved my work bonus today. Well I recieved half of my work bonus. I can tell you I would have had more warm fuzzys about handing half of it over to BGF or SFW than handing it over the government. So I guess I'll just hope some of my tax dollars go into that 300,000.
 
"Tri-

I thought you were asked not to respond.
Can you read and follow rules?"


I was asked not to respond to someone so he can post whatever propoganda he wants without dispute. What rule did I break? Why don't you mind your own business.
 
Great post TAGATTRACTER

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 08:43AM (MST)[p]>Tri-
>
>I thought you were asked not
>to respond.
>Can you read and follow rules?
>

Robiland, This thread is important, lets all just ignore him. Otherwise, he changes the subject to hide the truth and the thread is lost.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Yep Grizzly, he's the best thread hijacker I've ever seen on any websiteand that's about all he's good at!!! Now back to the intent of the thread and how DKP and Benson are living the high life off hunters and now all taxpayers money. If this $300,000 goes out to them again when they don't even have a registered lobbyist in DC, the public should demand a lynching of them and the Legislators that vote yes to give it to them!
 
If you don't think a bunch of wolves in Utah wont effect hunting, ranching,small town and Utah economy your crazy. Just see what it has done in places in Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana.

How easy is it to draw a WY moose permit compared to 10 years ago?

$300,000 dollars to fight some polical wolf wars and games for the state of Utah is a great investment in my eyes.

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. If wolves get a strong hold in Utah there may not be any cure.

Our Logan SFW banquet is sold out again. We just don't have a place to hold more than 500 sportsmen. There are many great supporters.

Utah keep up the fight.
 
There are special interest groups on both sides. They all get funds in order to fight for their side. They all take large slices of those funds as "consulting fees" or whatever... And as of right now, I dont think any of us can see the end of the tunnel.

I don't want an overpopulation of wolves ruining Utah's wildlife, and I have a feeling that should they begin to flourish here, that's exactly what would happen.

Is there nobody out there with significant clout who would lobby without taking a cut for themselves..?? Anyone..?? Or what about someone who guarantees taking only a small fee..?? Like any consumer of any good or service- people just want to know they are getting the biggest bang for their buck...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Right on time...the unmanned SFW drones show up to defend political hackery and SFW's socialistic approach to the "wolf wars".

WOW!
 
The state of Utah is the worst ran state in the entire western United States. Mike Noel and the rest of the Utah legislators are corrupt. They do everything they can to appease special interest groups without blinking an eye. In all reality they don't give two shits about sportsmen or the ecology of the landscape.
 
BrowningRage, to answer your question, "Yes, there is somebody that will lobby and only take a small fee. It is the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation."

If you want detailed, to the penny, expenditures from RMEF... just call. You will have them. See the Expo money dispute and RMEF's offer as compared to SFW's. You can see quickly who is in it for the animals and who is in it for the money. Ask SFW for detailed finances and they respond, in essence, "our attorney said we don't have to release those, so we won't".

Greg, I know the Logan Banquet sold out. There are people who still support SFW. Just because people support something doesn't mean it is right... Obama got reelected didn't he. You and I have mutual friends (former major SFW contributors) that are just now seeing the truth about SFW and I suspect that trend will continue as more information becomes available about them. This SLTRIB article won't help your cause.

We need lobbyists to fight for hunters. I don't dispute that. But SFW needs to be thrown out and let a true conservation group assume their position.

I don't argue there is a need for lobbyists, I argue which one we should throw our money behind.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Hijack? Drones? I believe it's difference of opinion. I don't always agree with anyone. But lately the response to differing opinions is childish. Radicalism one way or the other is really never the best answer. Tri holds a line one way and it balances the line some of the rest of you choose to hold. It's a sad deal that we cut each others throats.
 
>Hijack? Drones? I believe
>it's difference of opinion.
>I don't always agree with
>anyone. But lately the
>response to differing opinions is
>childish. Radicalism one way
>or the other is really
>never the best answer.
>Tri holds a line one
>way and it balances the
>line some of the rest
>of you choose to hold.
> It's a sad deal
>that we cut each others
>throats.

+1 but how to stop it is the question?
 
Anyone that condones DKP and Benson taking $300,000 from the Utah taxpayers for supposed wolf lobbying in DC when there isn't even a registered lobbyist on their part needs to get their head out of their azz! Tri doesn't hold or balance anything other than to attack and say the opposite and oppose whatever is said on these Forums. That't the perfect definition of a troll on a website and I'll leave it at that because I know what most on these Forums would like to call him and it ain't pretty!
 
Grizz, "Grey"

Don't make me throw up. Comparing Don Paey with Obama.

I have been in wildlife meetings and supported most all conservation groups in Utah since you were wearing pull up pants. I have had family work for over 30 years for the DWR. I'm quite familier with the politics and what has gone on in the past with wildlife groups, RAC, and Big game board. I agree changes need to be done to improve.

When you come on here and give them impression that SFW has alot of support now, but is fading away when people understand the real secret workings or facts about SFW and BGF makes me laugh. You think you know a lot from being on the computer for a couple years. You are funny. I really didn't see you at any meetings or wildlife projects to help out the past 20 years, to try to make a difference. Did I just not see you?

I hope you are not just a complainer. I hope you do something to help out the future. I would be happy to have lunch with you some day and anser some of your questions. I'll even buy.

Good luck

Greg
 
Wait?hold on?you're telling me that money given to Baron Von Peay and the cancer that is SFW/BGF is gone and there's no accountability, oversight, or explanation to where the funds went other than ?complex, grass roots, blah blah blah trust me? from Von Peay?

I'm shocked!

Shocked I tell you!


"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
"Tri doesn't hold or balance anything other than to attack and say the opposite and oppose whatever is said on these Forums."

Thats incorrect. I just disput the socialist propoganda garbage you spew on these forums. There are plenty of things on these forums I have agreed with. Just not any of your antics.
 
>Grizz, "Grey"
>
>Don't make me throw up.
>Comparing Don Paey with Obama.
>
>
>I have been in wildlife meetings
>and supported most all conservation
>groups in Utah since you
>were wearing pull up pants.
> I have had family
>work for over 30 years
>for the DWR. I'm
>quite familier with the politics
>and what has gone on
>in the past with wildlife
>groups, RAC, and Big game
>board. I agree changes
>need to be done to
>improve.
>
> When you come on here
>and give them impression that
>SFW has alot of support
>now, but is fading away
>when people understand the real
>secret workings or facts about
>SFW and BGF makes me
>laugh. You think you
>know a lot from being
>on the computer for a
>couple years. You are
>funny. I really didn't
>see you at any meetings
>or wildlife projects to help
>out the past 20 years,
>to try to make a
>difference. Did I just
>not see you?
>
>I hope you are not just
>a complainer. I hope
>you do something to help
>out the future. I
>would be happy to have
>lunch with you some day
>and anser some of your
>questions. I'll even buy.
>
>
>Good luck
>
>Greg

Greg, there is no reason to get personal with me. I didn't get personal with you.

If you were at some of the RAC meetings in Brigham City, you saw me there. If you helped plant Bitter Brush on Millville, you saw me there.

I agree you are older than me and have been involved longer. We could look at that two ways, 1)You are experienced and I am naive, or 2) I am looking at things from a new perspective that you no longer can have. Sometimes new blood is exactly what a movement needs.

You can't possibly argue that Peay isn't an expert politician. He is much more of a politician than anything else, the sad truth is that is what makes him so powerful.

I completely stand by my assertion that Obama and Peay use the same type of nepotism and cronyism to promote their cause. So does Hatch, Bennett, and every other politician. This corruption is not exclusive to one party or cause. It is rampant in politics, and that is where SFW plays.

Our hunting heritage is under attack. This time is too valuable to waste on any organization except the one most able to fight for us. Please go read the comments on the SLTrib article, the anti-hunters are missing the point about funding and already turning this into a "wolf issue". This isn't a wolf issue, this is an argument about the best way to use our hunting dollars to promote hunting for all of us.

Your comment to me, "I hope you do something to help out the future" is the one that is most concerning to me. I would have thought that you could understand that you and I are on the same team. We both want to preserve hunting for the future. See my Post #1, my contention is this type of behavior is bad for hunting and is ammunition to hurt our cause. You think SFW is the answer to the future. I think there are organizations that can do what SFW can do, but without the liability and negative repercussions.

My belief is that RMEF runs an organization that will be a better face for our cause and should be the one that stands front-and-center.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
>"Tri doesn't hold or balance anything
>other than to attack and
>say the opposite and oppose
>whatever is said on these
>Forums."
>
>Thats incorrect. I just disput
>the socialist propoganda garbage you
>spew on these forums.
>There are plenty of things
>on these forums I have
>agreed with. Just not
>any of your antics.


BS! The only thing you ever agree with on this site is when somebody puts up a photo of a nice animal you like, LOL!
 
"BS! The only thing you ever agree with on this site is when somebody puts up a photo of a nice animal you like, LOL!"

You do realize you have allready contradicted your first statement. You can't keep up with your own spew anymore.
 
"I need to bid for this contract."


This is the best and most American statement on this thread and I suggest you go for it. I will be rooting for you all the way and I am not being sarcastic.
 
According to the Trib, the bid was awarded to BGF four days after July 28th (or August 1st). According to disclosures.utah.gov the $5,000 check from Benson to Okerlund was posted August 2nd.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 12:42PM (MST)[p]Grizz,
I support RMEF. MDF, NRA,and other groups.

I still have my RMEF Bugle magazine that has the dirrector saying how he loves to hear the howl of the wolf. For years they have been on the fence concerning wolf management, to not offend their non hunting members. I believe thay have done a lot of good, habitat wise. The truth is they are not a political group. In recent years they have seen the distruction to wildlife caused by wolves and with a new dirrector gone to a better dirrection.

You are correct. SFW is a political group. Don is a lobbiest. I don't agree with all that they do. 90% of the time I do.

I'm glad you were willing and have participated in the bitter brush planting. I didn't see you that day. I havn't made it out to every project.

By the way, SFW helped pay for the bitter brush seeds. The plants were grown at Rudy and Son's green houses, who are my relatives. The goal was to keep the elk off the new seedlings to hopefully give them a chance to survive.

SFW has also paid for some of the hay feeding expenses to feed the elk herd on the Millville face.

SFW also was the group that has always paid for the deer feeding program started on hard winters.

SFW with NWTF has also spent money and transplanted wild turkeys in the same area.

I'm tired of hearing people complain that think they have all the answers, and that bad mouth everything about SFW or BGF. You are seeing one side of the coin. I doubt you know even 10% of what SFW has done the past 20 years.

It was SFW that paid a lot of money to fund a USU research project that collared deer to see what deer were dieing from to help our local deer herd.

If we can't manage predators and keep wolves out of Utah with our loss of winter range, more roads, more people, modern technology, long shooting rifles, trail cams, etc. we will have very little hope for the future of hunting.

dispite what you think. Those 500 people and many other smart avid sportsmen and business that support SFW aren't being decieved. We are not uninformed on the matters.

I think we should support all conservation groups and work together as sportsmen. That is my opinion, you are free to yours.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 12:49PM (MST)[p]huntin50---I don't think very many people are saying that your group isn't doing a lot of "on the ground" work at the grass roots level like you mentioned. Just think how much more you could do if all the money was going to those causes! What people are saying is why do they have to be unlike every other organization out there and get their money the way they do and then turn around and have little to no accountabliity of it. How do you think these top guys in those three organizations are making the big dollars they are? They sure don't have a printing press to make it! When all the other organizations are getting their money from dues and donations, with very little coming from game tag auctions and raffles, why can't they also operate that way? Take away those tags and those groups and big salaried top dogs go down the drain, unlike all the others that have transparent accounts and can basicly show where every dollar coming in is going. They sure aren't doing that and are fighting to keep from doing it! That doesn't appear to be a group that wants to work with others now does it?
 
Greg, thanks for the reply. Hopefully you and I can still be friends and just respect that we have different opinions on some things. By the way, I appreciate what SFW has done in the past. I have been on the record thanking SFW for some of their projects, like the current deer transplant project. Projects like this are great ways to spend the money that Utah hunters give to SFW.

I simply feel like a changing-of-the-guard is in order to protect hunting for the future in Utah.

Good luck at your banquet next week.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
And STILL, STILL... The Expo and SFW banquets grow. There is a vocal core of internet screamers that hate the SFW. But the truth seems to me that they have more ACTUAL support than they have haters. Other groups have tried to start up and they fizzle out or talk and plan a few little projects here and there. They call a few meetings and point fingers. Yet the banquets keep selling out and the Expo draws in sportsman. Some talk the talk and some walk the walk. I choose results everytime!!!
 
Top,
Irony that you say anyone should pull their head out of their azz. Seems to me yours is generally in someones other than your own. Just sayin bud, for months you say anything you want and cry the loudest when someone calls back. Fight your fight I respect that but dont cry when someone fights back. Tri is a mere refection in the mirror for many of you he just has a different opinion.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 01:17PM (MST)[p]>And STILL, STILL... The Expo and
>SFW banquets grow. There
>is a vocal core of
>internet screamers that hate the
>SFW. But the truth
>seems to me that they
>have more ACTUAL support than
>they have haters. Other
>groups have tried to start
>up and they fizzle out
>or talk and plan a
>few little projects here and
>there. They call a
>few meetings and point fingers.
> Yet the banquets keep
>selling out and the Expo
>draws in sportsman. Some
>talk the talk and some
>walk the walk. I
>choose results everytime!!!


***From everything I read on these Forums recently it sounded like most guys that attended the Expo the last couple years were saying it is going downhill, rather than growing. It will be interesting to see what happens when the tag contract comes up for bid in a couple years. I know the raffle tags always go and that's just human nature to try and get something good for almost nothing. When the new contract is due it will be "fish or cut bait" for those out in Utah who don't like what is going on and they will have the means of changing it at that time. As you and grizzly have both stated, each one has his/her own opinion and as long as we don't attack each other and can explain why we do or don't like something in a civil manner, then I think everyone gains in the end.
 
You're right Top, from the internet anything can look the way you want. Reality can be tough to swallow at times. Bring in a group better than the SFW and I'll support. Until then they have mine and from the looks of the banquets and memebership I'm with the majority. Lots of people putting there time and money where there mouth is and not just posting on the internet.
 
>You're right Top, from the internet
>anything can look the way
>you want. Reality can
>be tough to swallow at
>times. Bring in a
>group better than the SFW
>and I'll support. Until
>then they have mine and
>from the looks of the
>banquets and memebership I'm with
>the majority. Lots of
>people putting there time and
>money where there mouth is
>and not just posting on
>the internet.



***Question for you since you seem to be very knowledgeable about your group. How many members has SFW had the last several years in Utah compared to hunter numbers? Is the number of members up or down over the last several years? No guessing please and if you don't know just say so and we'll leave it at that. Thanks!
 
Top,
No idea what the overall # is. That is not at all my point. My point is they are the group that is actually doing something and making a difference. There are many many many sportsman in Utah that choose to set quietly and make zero difference. I'm saying that the 4 banquet I attended this year have grown from previous years. That would tell me that they are gaining support not losing it. The Expo, weather was terrible and I would truthfully agree that #s may have been down in the Expo hall. However I know they expanded the number of tickets to the banquet Saturday night and that baby was sold out. Maybe it was just the Oakridge Boys, but $150 is pretty steep to just see those talented fellows. You're fight has always been against SFW, not to help the wildlife of Utah. Although I don't always agree with the SFW I do believe they do help Utahs wildlife. It's really just that simple. Show me a better group and I jump right on board. I've asked for years....I'm still waiting. Fight against them without bringing a better solution or helping my states wildlife and I'll always fight back.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 01:57PM (MST)[p]Fair enough, but please realize that I have changed my thought process over the last year or so and have openly tried to explain this over that time period. If you'll read my posts in this and the other thread about DP, I have continually stated that I'm with you guys doing the ground work after dealving into the workings of the group itself. It's the way the Grand Puba and several of his cohorts have set those two organizations up to benefit themselves as much or more than the wildlife that we object to. He's got so many irons in the fire it's unreal and it looks like he has even more organizations and ties that we haven't discussed and they all seem to be set up to benefit him and/or his close upper associates. It's sort of like you zealous guys can't see the forest for the trees you're planting because you think we're attacking you when we're not! That's what I, and most everyone that has negative things to say about SFW, is referring to and not you great guys that are doing all the backbreaking work. Kudos to you and all the rest of them and a big pat on the back!
 
Topgun. Maybe I can answer some of the questions. The numbers are up at the banquets. The price of the banquet also includes a membership. That means that the membership is holding and growing. The people at the Expo signing up for SFW was much higher than ever before. Why is only a guess. I do know also that there was a record number of people signing up that have not been a member before. That I know as I put them into the computer. No record of them previously. Now that being said I do not know why, but this I do know, all the negative things being said on MM created a lot of curiosity. Lots of questions ask about things. That interest seamed to help. Also the transplants of the deer and also the transplants of the pheasants both last fall and then again this spring has brought a lot of interest from people. They seam to like what is going on.
Good luck to all in the draw.
 
I am offended and disgusted that tax dollars from Utah were funneled to BGF through this type of appropriation. A clear conflict of interest for the sponsor, and the lack of accountability is appalling.
I am "anti-wolf". Not interested in having wolves in UT at all. But use the money to fund the DWR or the state's attorney's office to fight federal involvement. Don't throw money at BGF as a simple pay back. This stinks to high heaven.
Bill
 
I swear to God the next time I hear somebody say "Well He / SFW has done some good" I'm going to Ralph!!

What don't any of you understand about the fleecing and pyramid scheme we've been sold??

Now the guy isn't just taking hunting opportunity from Utah's hunters, he's pissing away your tax money as well.

73 I understand he pushed your daddies dream of mule deer management to fruition but you'd follow this crook off a damn cliff.

Wow!!














"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Wiley,
That's was just a start. There will be more to come and I only wish Don could wave his magic wand to make it happen. Like I said when I see a group getting more done I'll jump on board. Until then I'll keep talking to the ears that make difference.
 
>That 300 grand won't do a
>damn thing to keep wolves
>out of Utah anyway. mtmuley
>


If you feel that way, then why are you defending that guy and his cohorts that ar now robbing the Utah taxpayers blind as their next project?!!!
 
TOPGUN, There you go again! JEEZUS! I defended no one. I merely stated that no amount of money, by ANYONE, can keep wolves out of a state. Comprehension on a computer screen, which you love to preach about, is tough. Figured you may have known me better than to accuse me of defending SFW. mtmuley
 
Thanks for the heads up Griz! After the all mighty "DON" refused to talk about what really happened with the first wolf delisting in a public debate with Randy fearing that people would see that these groups where really throwing logs in the path of the one that were on the front lines of making hunting wolves a reality. what about the offical stance from the NRA stating that everyone dealing with SFW or BGF should watch there back and not to give them credit for the delisting even though they were tryin to take all credit,accountability of the other 300k BGF received last year, and then they receive another 300k ? Really?? The wildlife political system in this state is so shady and twisted. I need to go toss my lunch!
 
"What don't any of you understand about the fleecing and pyramid scheme we've been sold??"

There is no pyramid scheme here. Apparently you don't know what a pyramid scheme is. If there was one the federal government would be all over him and you wouldn't have to worry about him anymore.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-13 AT 11:12AM (MST)[p]>TOPGUN, There you go again! JEEZUS!
>I defended no one. I
>merely stated that no amount
>of money, by ANYONE, can
>keep wolves out of a
>state. Comprehension on a computer
>screen, which you love to
>preach about, is tough. Figured
>you may have known me
>better than to accuse me
>of defending SFW. mtmuley

So sorry for my comment! I just realized as I was typing this response back to you that it was you that came back with that statement and NOT muley73!!! There are too many people with usernames that are similar and I goofed up thinking I was replying to him, rather than you based on his response right above yours to Wiley!
 
Who says the Federal Government isnt all over them?

I think theres enough evidence for a pretty healthy investigation.

Just sayin'...
 
It may not be a pyramid scheme, but it is a scam! Your not paying attention if you believe otherwise.


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
>Topgun. Maybe I
>can answer some of the
>questions. The numbers
>are up at the banquets.
> The price of the
>banquet also includes a membership.
> That means that the
>membership is holding and growing.
> The people at the
>Expo signing up for SFW
>was much higher than ever
>before. Why is only
>a guess. I do
>know also that there was
>a record number of people
>signing up that have not
>been a member before.
>That I know as I
>put them into the computer.
> No record of them
>previously. Now that being
>said I do not know
>why, but this I do
>know, all the negative things
>being said on MM created
>a lot of curiosity.
>Lots of questions ask about
>things. That interest seamed
>to help. Also the
>transplants of the deer and
>also the transplants of the
>pheasants both last fall and
>then again this spring has
>brought a lot of interest
>from people. They seam
>to like what is going
>on.
> Good
>luck to all in the
>draw.


***Thanks for your reply Birdman! I hope this finds you doing well and you also have a good year, especially in your hunting.
 
And there still will be wolves after the 300k is spent. Those funds aren't going to do crap to the wolf population. Just like last year. But hey, keep giving them money right?
So sad.
The crap hole just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Oh and btw. It friggin stinks.


Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
I'd bet you a shiny nickel that old Teddy would have been setting at the banquet Saturday night of the Expo. Grin on his face as he saw the dollars being spent toward wildlife. Helping ensure that many can enjoy them through the dollars spent by a few.
 
Cache, What is interesting is that Wayne LaPierre has come to the Expo for at least the last three years and has spoken to the group telling them to join SFW and MDF. Is seams to be very involved with them right now.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-13
>AT 11:30?AM (MST)
>
>That's weak. Stand by your
>words.


Not weak at all, just a statement of fact and I do stand by my words thinking that you posted them! If I hadn't been in a hurry to do some other things, I'd have seen it wasn't your post, as mtmuley and I have a very good relationship on a couple of different websites.
 
That's no feather in SFW's cap. Even Randy Newberg was there last year. We know how he feels about the situation. Doesn't mean they are going to do much for the group.



I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
4100fps, You are right but the difference is that Wayne LaPierre has spoken at the big banquet on Saturday night the last three years announcing from the pulpit to join SFW and MDF while Randy Newberg was just attending the expo. Big difference. I know it brakes your heart to think that the NRA would be involved with SFW but what happened was cleared up just after that happened. There is no problem now between the two groups.
 
Bird can you please post up some documentation on this joining of forces between SFW and NRA.I'm sorry but I'm not going to take anything anyone in the higher ranking of your group spills out of their mouths as truthful merit. Can you blame me?
If this is common knowlege I apologize.I've been out of the political loop for awhile.
Just seems odd that the NRA would put out such a degrading press release against SFW then all of a sudden the two groups are in bed together.
I can't help but wonder if this was a classic case of "take this donation and shut your mouth" type of deal.Again can you blame me for feeling this way?
 
cache, I am going by what is taking place at the expo. Wayne has been a guest and main speaker for the past two or three years at the big banquet. He has teamed up with SFW and MDF. Now to me that does not sound like they are not getting along. It is all open at the expo. His presence at the expo was also on the news.
 
Can someone explain to me how 300K will "excuse" Utah from having wolves and ignoring the Endangered Species Act? I'm sure Idaho, Montana, Washington, Oregon and Wyoming would like to know.

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-13 AT 08:53AM (MST)[p]Bird, I could give a rats ass about who the NRA indorses. I'm not a member nor have I been sense they decided to get involved in Montana's business. We've had several citizens initiatives to get ride of game farms and stop subsidizing outfitters, they came out and worked against the sportsman of our state to kill those initiatives. (They were on the losing end both times) They also have been sending mailers of support for our tea Party candidates. Moderate Republs are being thrown under the bus by the NRA. So birds of a feather dude!

I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
"There is no pyramid scheme here. Apparently you don't know what a pyramid scheme is. If there was one the federal government would be all over him and you wouldn't have to worry about him anymore."

You mean the Feds would be all over him like they are all over the polygamists in the state??

The bonus point system has prevented any type of reasonable, scientific game management in this state for years. Add Conservation permits to this scheme and you are making management decisions based on what is FAIR to guys that have been chasing the dangling carrot of an elk tag for 20 plus years, or what is going to keep these permits selling at all time highs. To hell with what is good for wildlife.

Everybody is always pissed cause these groups are surviving off the public teat. They flock to expo's to give these groups money that they in turn use to take hunting opportunity and access to public waters from us. But they continually miss the big picture
of how wildlife is managed and for who.

If you think for one second a system managing wildlife for those with fat wallets or dudes that fill out an application for years is not a pyramid scheme, it's probably you that needs an education.













"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Eel, it's just like the $1.7 million of tax payer money that Utah is going to spend, I mean waste on gaining control of all federal land in Utah. It will never happen, just a waste of tax payer money. They're called Utards for a reason.

Utah is the fraud capital of America, it's no wonder SFW thrives there.
 
>If you don't think a bunch
>of wolves in Utah wont
>effect hunting, ranching,small town and
>Utah economy your crazy.
>Just see what it has
>done in places in Idaho,
>Wyoming, and Montana.
>
>How easy is it to draw
>a WY moose permit compared
>to 10 years ago?
>
>$300,000 dollars to fight some polical
>wolf wars and games for
>the state of Utah is
>a great investment in my
>eyes.
>
>An ounce of prevention is better
>than a pound of cure.
> If wolves get a
>strong hold in Utah there
>may not be any cure.
>
>
>Our Logan SFW banquet is sold
>out again. We just
>don't have a place to
>hold more than 500 sportsmen.
> There are many great
>supporters.
>
>Utah keep up the fight.

How many "conservation tags" are at that dinner? Wonder how many will show up without the chance of getting something?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
"If you think for one second a system managing wildlife for those with fat wallets or dudes that fill out an application for years is not a pyramid scheme, it's probably you that needs an education."


That still isn't a pyramid scheme. I think it would do you well to look up what a pyramid scheme is. It is a very specific form of fraud. You might as well be calling it armed robbery, or kidnapping. Face it. You don't know what you speak of.
 

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