SFW Stabs Teddy Roosevelt in the Back

grizzly

Long Time Member
Messages
5,598
Here is an article about SFW stabbing Teddy Roosevelt in the back...

http://www.hcn.org/blogs/range/sportsmen-stab-theodore-roosevelt-in-the-back

I think the main problem is that politicians truly believe that SFW speaks for Sportsman. Orrin Hatch went out of his way to name-drop Don Peay in a letter about mule deer recovery. They have no idea how many of us feel about SFW.

This is a terribly dangerous precedent.

If I only knew how to stop SFW...

Grizzly
 
I totally agree Griz.I bet old Teddy tools over in his grave every time he hears someone mentions the word SFW.I feel alot of people that praise the Don really don't know his real intentions or past actions.
 
Politicians like Don because he gets things done. Don has been able to align himself politically with some powerful people and guys with deep pockets. In politics, that is the name of the game. Who do you know and how can you help me.

Us regular types just gripe and moan amongst ourselves or in chat rooms. This gets nothing accomplished. Politicians see this and that is why they align with guys like Don. They figure at least he is getting stuff done, gets headlines and he can help them win their next election.

To them, there are doers and there are talkers. Don, for better or worse, is a doer. People who do nothing but complain get very little done and only talk about the good ol' days.
 
SFWs membership would reflect that a lot of wealth hunters live in UT???

I am more inclined to think that Teddy would have probably been posing in pics with Don! Big grin under those little round glasses. Conservation takes money and I bet Teddy would understand that without question.
 
You obviously don't know much about the man. Read a few of his books and you should quickly realize he truely was for keeping game available to the common man. Auctioning tags for more than 4 times the national average anual income is not something that would have made him grin. I would think he would have been more apt to introduce Don to his big stick than pose with him.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-12 AT 07:56AM (MST)[p]Teddy would roll over in his grave if you had him with Don. What are sfw numbers? A few wealthy guys, some wanna be guides, or a few that suck off the freebies teet? Which one are you?
 
>Us regular types just gripe and
>moan amongst ourselves or in
>chat rooms. This gets
>nothing accomplished.


Agreed 100%. My local state house rep is an active hunter and sportsman. I make donations to him in election years and I've told him more than a few times the SFW in this state are a bunch of azz knobs who don't represent me or the average Joe hunter. Something to about folks if you want to get yer elected rep's ear. I've also made similar comments to other elected reps and G&F folks around here...
 
First off. Anyone who would take a stab at Mitt Romney, for hunting, who admitted he was not a big hunter, but said when asked he went Moose, and quickly corrected it to elk hunting and also pheasant hunting tells you something about the writer.

Would Obama go hunting, would he get caught aligning himself with hunters and gun owners?

As sportsmen and gun owners our options are Obama and Romney. The guy writing this article chose to slam Romney.

I don't agree with all that SFW does. They are trying to make a difference for the future of all hunting.

I know some are madd because they feel, Don and SFW stole some of their tags for an expo. These tags go to ave Joe hunters. But you have to attend. I would be madd also if I had a bunch of points as a non resident and some of those permits were taken for the expo. I understand your complaints.

I think 10% of tags should go to Non Residents. We are all NR in every state except one.

Non res get a raw deal in about every state in the west.

Idaho you buy a 150 dollar license, slim chance of drawing tags.

Wyoming can't hunt wilderness, expensive points for sheep. 100 dollars, Moose 75 dollars, elk 50, deer 40 ,pronghorn 30,$295 dollars total.
Arizona, I will never draw a 13 or a late 12 tag. I have 10 deer points. The cost is a lot 150 dollars a year for a license.

Nevada it cost 200 plus dollars a year to buy a license and get points.

I could go on and on about other states, ie. OR,and NM.

I think it would be fair to give non res 10% of the tags,
not up to 10% for a reasonable license fee to apply say 50-75 dollars. It is obvious that some sportsmen are madd, becausr of expo and conservation tags. Other Conservation groups use them as well. I'm aware of transparency issues. That should improve.

A few things I know have improved thanks to Don and SFW.

More Utah big game species to hunt except deer.

Helped save sportsmen access for hunting on school trust lands and national monuments for hunting.

Got millions in funding approved for fish hatchery repair and production.

SFW has been a big part of BGF, fighting for wolf delisting, and changing ESA. Animal rights groups have printed reports that said BGF and Don Peay, were the ones that got things done.

SFW and Don organized the efforts to pass Prop 5. A constitutional amendment to protect hunting and fishing. It now it takes 2/3rds vote approval for anti hunting groups to take away our rights, to trap, hound hunting, and other hunting activities. This is huge for everyone. I'm sure Teddy was smiling on that one.

When other states have seen a loss of traping, hunting cougars,hound hunting, etc. Utah will be protected from these attacks. We even got spring bear hunting back. Added to hunting opportunities.

Thanks to Don and SFW have rasied millions for habitat rehab,critical winter range, highway fencing, under passes for critical deer migration to winter range. etc.

I have family who were employed by UDWR. 15-20 years ago, big game were not even a top priority in the division. Some of OUR license money were going to non game animal projects. I don't think Teddy would have liked that. It's not happening anymore.

Govenor Herbert just signed a bill to help mule deer in Utah. 1.25 million dollars for coyote control, to help out our deer herds.

I could go on and on.

I have been apart of local wildlife projects for 20 years.

Skyler's Pond, a public fish pond for kids and handicap.

Youth Pheasant hunts, trap shooting.

Turkey transplants with NWTF. Now we have over the counter turkey hunting licenses.

Helped Pay for Deer collaring and USU research study to try to help out our deer herds.

Bitter brush planting, and range rehab.

Emergency deer feeding stations coordinated and paid for feed until the DWR decided to.

SFW continues to pay for hay to feed elk on the Millville Face. About 200 to 300 elk. The DWR was going to reduce the herd in half.

What ever us local sportsmen needed, Don and SFW have always tried to help us.
Utah is doing more wildlife projects than most western states combined.

We just had our Logan SFW banquet. Had over 500 people attend. We were sold out 2 weeks in advance. There are banquets all over the Utah that sell out and have large crowds. That tells you something about what many Sportsmen in Ut think about Don and SFW. It's not because they drink kool-aid. They see results.

Yes, I think Teddy would be happy with the majority of what SFW and Don has done. Obvious the many Sportsmen and women see the results and support these banquets.

So back to this article. Let's slam Govenor Romney, SFW, and Don Paey. The writer is telling us they are the enemy.

I don't have time to argue. I have to work extra to buy those NR tags and pay for 4 dollar a gallon gas. I have to work extra to pay more taxes for those who feel entitled to stay home from work, who could work. Man this is getting expensive.

Everyone has their opinions. This is mine. Good luck in the draws and take a kid hunting and fishing.

Greg
 
>First off. Anyone who would
>take a stab at Mitt
>Romney, for hunting, who admitted
>he was not a big
>hunter, but said when asked
>he went Moose, and quickly
>corrected it to elk hunting
>and also pheasant hunting tells
>you something about the writer.
>
>
>Would Obama go hunting, would he
>get caught aligning himself with
>hunters and gun owners?
>
>As sportsmen and gun owners our
>options are Obama and Romney.
> The guy writing this
>article chose to slam Romney.
>
>
>I don't agree with all that
>SFW does. They are
>trying to make a difference
>for the future of all
>hunting.
>
>I know some are madd because
>they feel, Don and SFW
>stole some of their tags
>for an expo. These tags
>go to ave Joe hunters.
>But you have to attend.
>I would be madd also
>if I had a bunch
>of points as a non
>resident and some of those
>permits were taken for the
>expo. I understand your
>complaints.
>
>I think 10% of tags should
>go to Non Residents.
>We are all NR in
>every state except one.
>
>Non res get a raw deal
>in about every state in
>the west.
>
>Idaho you buy a 150 dollar
>license, slim chance of drawing
>tags.
>
>Wyoming can't hunt wilderness, expensive points
>for sheep. 100 dollars, Moose
>75 dollars, elk 50, deer
>40 ,pronghorn 30,$295 dollars total.
>
>Arizona, I will never draw a
>13 or a late
>12 tag. I have
>10 deer points. The
>cost is a lot 150
>dollars a year for a
>license.
>
>Nevada it cost 200 plus dollars
>a year to buy a
>license and get points.
>
>I could go on and on
>about other states, ie. OR,and
>NM.
>
>I think it would be fair
>to give non res 10%
>of the tags,
>not up to 10% for a
>reasonable license fee to apply
>say 50-75 dollars. It
>is obvious that some sportsmen
>are madd, becausr of expo
>and conservation tags. Other
>Conservation groups use them as
>well. I'm aware of transparency
>issues. That should improve.
>
>
>A few things I know have
>improved thanks to Don and
>SFW.
>
>More Utah big game species to
>hunt except deer.
>
>Helped save sportsmen access for hunting
>on school trust lands and
>national monuments for hunting.
>
>Got millions in funding approved for
>fish hatchery repair and production.
>
>
>SFW has been a big part
>of BGF, fighting for wolf
>delisting, and changing ESA. Animal
>rights groups have printed reports
>that said BGF and Don
>Peay, were the ones that
>got things done.
>
>SFW and Don organized the efforts
>to pass Prop 5. A
>constitutional amendment to protect hunting
>and fishing. It now it
>takes 2/3rds vote approval for
>anti hunting groups to take
>away our rights, to trap,
>hound hunting, and other hunting
>activities. This is huge for
>everyone. I'm sure Teddy
>was smiling on that one.
>
>
>When other states have seen a
>loss of traping, hunting cougars,hound
>hunting, etc. Utah will
>be protected from these attacks.
> We even got spring
>bear hunting back. Added
>to hunting opportunities.
>
>Thanks to Don and SFW
>have rasied millions for habitat
>rehab,critical winter range, highway fencing,
>under passes for critical deer
>migration to winter range.
>etc.
>
>I have family who were employed
>by UDWR. 15-20 years
>ago, big game were not
>even a top priority in
>the division. Some of
>OUR license money were going
>to non game animal projects.
> I don't think Teddy
>would have liked that.
>It's not happening anymore.
>
>Govenor Herbert just signed a bill
>to help mule deer in
>Utah. 1.25 million dollars
>for coyote control, to help
>out our deer herds.
>
>I could go on and on.
>
>
>I have been apart of local
>wildlife projects for 20 years.
>
>
>Skyler's Pond, a public fish pond
>for kids and handicap.
>
>Youth Pheasant hunts, trap shooting.
>
>Turkey transplants with NWTF. Now
>we have over the counter
>turkey hunting licenses.
>
>Helped Pay for Deer collaring and
>USU research study to try
>to help out our deer
>herds.
>
>Bitter brush planting, and range rehab.
>
>
>Emergency deer feeding stations coordinated
>and paid for feed until
>the DWR decided to.
>
>SFW continues to pay for hay
>to feed elk on the
>Millville Face. About 200 to
>300 elk. The
>DWR was going to reduce
>the herd in half.
>
>What ever us local sportsmen needed,
>Don and SFW have always
>tried to help us.
>Utah is doing more wildlife projects
>than most western states combined.
>
>
>We just had our Logan SFW
>banquet. Had over 500
>people attend. We were sold
>out 2 weeks in advance.
>There are banquets all over
>the Utah that sell out
>and have large crowds. That
>tells you something about what
>many Sportsmen in Ut think
>about Don and SFW. It's
>not because they drink kool-aid.
> They see results.
>
>Yes, I think Teddy would
>be happy with the majority
>of what SFW and Don
>has done. Obvious the
>many Sportsmen and women see
>the results and support these
>banquets.
>
>So back to this article.
>Let's slam Govenor Romney, SFW,
>and Don Paey. The
>writer is telling us they
>are the enemy.
>
>I don't have time to argue.
> I have to work
>extra to buy those NR
>tags and pay for 4
>dollar a gallon gas.
>I have to work extra
>to pay more taxes for
>those who feel entitled to
>stay home from work, who
>could work. Man this is
>getting expensive.
>
>Everyone has their opinions. This
>is mine. Good luck
>in the draws and take
>a kid hunting and fishing.
>
>
>Greg


Yep, that's yer opinion, mine is "keep drinking it brother". Andy yep, take a kit huntin' and fishin'...
 
>>First off. Anyone who would
>>take a stab at Mitt
>>Romney, for hunting, who admitted
>>he was not a big
>>hunter, but said when asked
>>he went Moose, and quickly
>>corrected it to elk hunting
>>and also pheasant hunting tells
>>you something about the writer.
>>
>>
>>Would Obama go hunting, would he
>>get caught aligning himself with
>>hunters and gun owners?
>>
>>As sportsmen and gun owners our
>>options are Obama and Romney.
>> The guy writing this
>>article chose to slam Romney.
>>
>>
>>I don't agree with all that
>>SFW does. They are
>>trying to make a difference
>>for the future of all
>>hunting.
>>
>>I know some are madd because
>>they feel, Don and SFW
>>stole some of their tags
>>for an expo. These tags
>>go to ave Joe hunters.
>>But you have to attend.
>>I would be madd also
>>if I had a bunch
>>of points as a non
>>resident and some of those
>>permits were taken for the
>>expo. I understand your
>>complaints.
>>
>>I think 10% of tags should
>>go to Non Residents.
>>We are all NR in
>>every state except one.
>>
>>Non res get a raw deal
>>in about every state in
>>the west.
>>
>>Idaho you buy a 150 dollar
>>license, slim chance of drawing
>>tags.
>>
>>Wyoming can't hunt wilderness, expensive points
>>for sheep. 100 dollars, Moose
>>75 dollars, elk 50, deer
>>40 ,pronghorn 30,$295 dollars total.
>>
>>Arizona, I will never draw a
>>13 or a late
>>12 tag. I have
>>10 deer points. The
>>cost is a lot 150
>>dollars a year for a
>>license.
>>
>>Nevada it cost 200 plus dollars
>>a year to buy a
>>license and get points.
>>
>>I could go on and on
>>about other states, ie. OR,and
>>NM.
>>
>>I think it would be fair
>>to give non res 10%
>>of the tags,
>>not up to 10% for a
>>reasonable license fee to apply
>>say 50-75 dollars. It
>>is obvious that some sportsmen
>>are madd, becausr of expo
>>and conservation tags. Other
>>Conservation groups use them as
>>well. I'm aware of transparency
>>issues. That should improve.
>>
>>
>>A few things I know have
>>improved thanks to Don and
>>SFW.
>>
>>More Utah big game species to
>>hunt except deer.
>>
>>Helped save sportsmen access for hunting
>>on school trust lands and
>>national monuments for hunting.
>>
>>Got millions in funding approved for
>>fish hatchery repair and production.
>>
>>
>>SFW has been a big part
>>of BGF, fighting for wolf
>>delisting, and changing ESA. Animal
>>rights groups have printed reports
>>that said BGF and Don
>>Peay, were the ones that
>>got things done.
>>
>>SFW and Don organized the efforts
>>to pass Prop 5. A
>>constitutional amendment to protect hunting
>>and fishing. It now it
>>takes 2/3rds vote approval for
>>anti hunting groups to take
>>away our rights, to trap,
>>hound hunting, and other hunting
>>activities. This is huge for
>>everyone. I'm sure Teddy
>>was smiling on that one.
>>
>>
>>When other states have seen a
>>loss of traping, hunting cougars,hound
>>hunting, etc. Utah will
>>be protected from these attacks.
>> We even got spring
>>bear hunting back. Added
>>to hunting opportunities.
>>
>>Thanks to Don and SFW
>>have rasied millions for habitat
>>rehab,critical winter range, highway fencing,
>>under passes for critical deer
>>migration to winter range.
>>etc.
>>
>>I have family who were employed
>>by UDWR. 15-20 years
>>ago, big game were not
>>even a top priority in
>>the division. Some of
>>OUR license money were going
>>to non game animal projects.
>> I don't think Teddy
>>would have liked that.
>>It's not happening anymore.
>>
>>Govenor Herbert just signed a bill
>>to help mule deer in
>>Utah. 1.25 million dollars
>>for coyote control, to help
>>out our deer herds.
>>
>>I could go on and on.
>>
>>
>>I have been apart of local
>>wildlife projects for 20 years.
>>
>>
>>Skyler's Pond, a public fish pond
>>for kids and handicap.
>>
>>Youth Pheasant hunts, trap shooting.
>>
>>Turkey transplants with NWTF. Now
>>we have over the counter
>>turkey hunting licenses.
>>
>>Helped Pay for Deer collaring and
>>USU research study to try
>>to help out our deer
>>herds.
>>
>>Bitter brush planting, and range rehab.
>>
>>
>>Emergency deer feeding stations coordinated
>>and paid for feed until
>>the DWR decided to.
>>
>>SFW continues to pay for hay
>>to feed elk on the
>>Millville Face. About 200 to
>>300 elk. The
>>DWR was going to reduce
>>the herd in half.
>>
>>What ever us local sportsmen needed,
>>Don and SFW have always
>>tried to help us.
>>Utah is doing more wildlife projects
>>than most western states combined.
>>
>>
>>We just had our Logan SFW
>>banquet. Had over 500
>>people attend. We were sold
>>out 2 weeks in advance.
>>There are banquets all over
>>the Utah that sell out
>>and have large crowds. That
>>tells you something about what
>>many Sportsmen in Ut think
>>about Don and SFW. It's
>>not because they drink kool-aid.
>> They see results.
>>
>>Yes, I think Teddy would
>>be happy with the majority
>>of what SFW and Don
>>has done. Obvious the
>>many Sportsmen and women see
>>the results and support these
>>banquets.
>>
>>So back to this article.
>>Let's slam Govenor Romney, SFW,
>>and Don Paey. The
>>writer is telling us they
>>are the enemy.
>>
>>I don't have time to argue.
>> I have to work
>>extra to buy those NR
>>tags and pay for 4
>>dollar a gallon gas.
>>I have to work extra
>>to pay more taxes for
>>those who feel entitled to
>>stay home from work, who
>>could work. Man this is
>>getting expensive.
>>
>>Everyone has their opinions. This
>>is mine. Good luck
>>in the draws and take
>>a kid hunting and fishing.
>>
>>
>>Greg
>
>
>Yep, that's yer opinion, mine is
>"keep drinking it brother".
>Andy yep, take a kit
>huntin' and fishin'...

take a kit huntin ad fishin? what kinda kit? did you mean mit?
 
If you only do one thing and you do not agree with SFW you must remember the legislatures that side with SFW at election time and vote against them !!! I feel so strongly against SFW if Romnney is the republican nominee and sides with SFW I will.......and this is hard to say...vote for Obama.

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is alive and well. SFW says it takes money...it takes their money to get what THEY want. The American sportsmen put in more than a billion dollars per year for wildlife.
 
Greg, how do you take a kid hunting when its a 10-15 year wait to get him a chance on a good unit? How do you get them out in Northern Utah? How do you include them in a sport where I can' afford to "play the game" How many pics of the Denny Austads of the world are there any kids around? I want to take my kids, I want my kids to experience a deer hunt, not some 3 day excursion. I want my kids to not have to mortgage the house to participate. I want my kids to be thought of, rather than what guys "buying" animals want. Where is it that I see kids and what they want included in SFW's visions? SFW wants to exclude, hell they already have cut out 150,000 hunters, more this year. You can't be part of an organization that is for limited access, trophy only, huge fee hunting, then talk about kids. NO KID will stay interested in hunting if they hunt deer every few years, and elk every 15. I know that opportunity hunting is a four letter word to SFW, but opportunity is teh only way our kids will stay interested.

As for Old Teddy, Teddy set aside Yellowstone, and places like it. Sfw is for hunting these places(antelope island). You can want to spend big money to hunt like he did, without wanting to make that the only hunting like SFW does!


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Why do all of you hate people that have money and spend it to go hunting? Teddy also closed the kaibab to hunting. How is closing vast areas to any type of game management conservation?
Hoss what the he11 are you talking about 10-15 years for a good hunting unit? Most limited entry units dont take that long to draw! Even if it did take that long how is it SFW's fault?
WHAT A BUNCH OF CRYBABIES!!!
 
Hoss are you serious? do you really believe Utah could have 150,000 more hunters in the feild with what we have now? That's insane. I for one am grateful that sportsmen got united 18 years ago and let the Gov. know the DWR was selling out our hunting heritage and taking the tag money for the "future of wildlife, non-game species" as it was put to us by the Bioligist at a meeting in Nephi in 1993. Fast forward to the present and SFW and other groups have done enough habitat work across this state that range bioligists for the Forest Service and BLM tell us that there is enough forage for an additional 200,000+ animals, I know this has been brought up on this site not long ago. It would be nice to get the DWR, BLM, Forest Service, Cattlemen, Sheepmen, County Commissioners, Landowners and sportsmen all on the same page then we could get our elk, sheep, buffaloe, deer, antelope etc. objectives up. Think how much more oppurtunity for our kids that will be. But it is not just going to happen there is a lot of push back from many groups involved that is stopping any progress.
Back to your worries about not enough oppurtunity for kids I get hammered all the time on this issue but it is always the oppisite all the dads myself included say their kids have a hard time getting excited to hunt deer in Utah because of the lack of game. Where is it "to expensive to hunt deer or elk in Utah? Yeah we can't afford to buy a conservation tag but if I wanted to I could get an any bull or spike tag that hunting is actually better then when I started hunting in the '80s. Or Icould get a general season deer tag. When I grew up no one worried about there kids drawing a limited entry tag hell there is more oppurtunity to hunt elk now then 25 years ago.
Whether you admit it or not without those conservation tags you would see less oppurtunity in this state then you have now. Our kids would have zero hope of hunting sheep, certainly there would not be any buffaloe from the Henry Mtns to the Book Cliffs, and all that range that burned on the Books, Henries, Nebo, Uintahs, Vernon and many other ranges would not have been reseeded as quickly and succesfully as has been done. There most certainly would not have been any P&J chainnings and reseeding, that is expensive. Without SFW about the only Highways fenced would be that stretch along Jordanelle that just funneld the deer to choke points and trapped them inside. Whether you like it or not SFW gets ##### done That is why our fundraisers are succesful membership grows and politicians listen. There is no group putting there neck out in more ways than SFW for the recovery of Utah mule deer. It frustrates me to no end that we listened to bioligist after bioligist tell us habitat habitat if we do enough the deer will return. All the while they would fight us that predators are not having an effect on herd growth only in the last year and a half have some of them admitted that we "may" have a problem with to few deer and to many predators. I have heard every excuss you can think of why fawns do not survive. They are being born they just seem to disapear before they reach one year. One thing about T. Roosevelt he was proactive and in that regard I believe he is resting in peace for what we are doing.
 
"Why do all of you hate people that have money and spend it to go hunting? Teddy also closed the kaibab to hunting."
Nobody hates people that have money and spend it to go hunting. Buy the best equipment / hire the best outfitter you want, more power to you, you deserve it. What you don't deserve is an unfair opportunity to benefit from a PUBLIC resource. It's only when you "spend it to go hunting" a PUBLIC resource and have a better chance at having an opportunity to do so that bother's people. By the way, did Teddy close the Kaibab to everyone, or everyone except the rich?
 
>If you only do one thing
>and you do not agree
>with SFW you must remember
>the legislatures that side with
>SFW at election time and
>vote against them !!! I
>feel so strongly against SFW
>if Romnney is the republican
>nominee and sides with SFW
>I will.......and this is hard
>to say...vote for Obama.
>
>The North American Model of Wildlife
>Conservation is alive and well.
>SFW says it takes money...it
>takes their money to get
>what THEY want. The American
>sportsmen put in more than
>a billion dollars per year
>for wildlife.

are you chitting me only zim would vote for obama over any rino the worst republican is 1 million times better than obama !! are you saying you would vote for obama because of sfw ? he doesn't give a crap about utah or sfw or any hunter for that matter!!
 
Jeff46, So is it better to close all hunting to everyone everywhere??? The DWR sold those tags in the first place to conservation organations! So why dont you people that keep hating on SFW hate the system that created these tags not the group that is using the system to provide money to further there interests!
 
Why is it that sfw is always under the gun? last i checked rmef mdf nwtf fnaws and the dwr are involved in the tag auctions so why are they not getting singled out? Uwc who are they i keep seeing the posts bit what have they done oh ya they posted some stuff for a dedicated hunter project that they needed help with but who really arranged that project. dwr did with the glenwood fish hatchery they do it every year. who paid to keep that hatchery open sfw did. i am a member to more then one of these groups. i know that 2 people are louder then 1 and i know if sportsman dont start coming together as a group we will not be heard and in 20 years our kids wont have the opportunity that we have had our whole lives.

ok go ahead and start the bashings


"it does'nt matter what kind of boots your wearing, its where those boots take you that matters most."
Steve Pollock rip you will be missed



www.hightopoutfitters.com
 
SFW also campaigned to close public fishing waters in Utah by passing legislation that overturned over 100 years of case law. They believe either you are a landowner, or you don't deserve access. Now they are pushing that on hunting as well.

SFW is not a Sportsmans or Wildlife Organization. SFW is a lobbying organization. They also have dramatically changed their focus from improving habitat to fundamentally changing the way hunting happens in the Western US (read the Achorage News article).

Don Peay will openly tell you he wants huge tracts of private land with "concession"-style hunting as in Africa. He wants no BLM land and no National Forest land in Utah, or the rest of the West. And he uses "education" to push his agenda, which is BS.

If he gets his way with the Utah Federal Land-grab bill. Your favorite National Forest could well be sold to a timber company or rancher who then leases out hunting rights. Pay to Play!

Think of your favorite place to hunt, and realize that SFW wants the ability to sell that to a private company. And who stands to benefit when that happens? The Denny Austads of the world.

SFW is a very scary organization.

Grizzly
 
Boy Griz, That is about as far fetched as has been said so far. Makes for a interesting read but far fetched and is definately not true.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-12 AT 05:02PM (MST)[p]SFW breaks more china that a bull and they carry around knives. Did you see where SFW was bragging and RMEF told them to recall the PR sheet and remove RMEF name? Far fetched?

Did you see where SFW tried to undercut the wolf plan? Far fetched?

What about Montana? Arizona tag grab attempt as emergency bill to limit critter groups and hunter input? How many groups bailed on SFW-AZ the past couple of months? Lots. MDF even called that tag grab attempt wrong. Far fetched?

SFW-AK. The puppet there lacked the background and education to lead but did know how to put animals in the freezer. Far fetched?

SFW-UT and the water access bill? Far fetched?

SFW-UT and the delays in filing audited financilas with the state as required? Far fetched?

SFW is great at using your tags to raise money for admin costs and contracts for cronies. Do you really think a state is not capable of selling tags at auctions themselves and keeping 100% of the fees? SFW puts pennies on the ground per their own filings. Pennies. Far fetched?
 
Soo OUTDOORS its ok to sell public permits at auction as long as its the DWR doing the selling. But when its the SFW doing the selling they're just a bunch of tag pimps catering to the rich man???
Interesting. glad you took the emotion out of it.
 
Dearlove, Sorry I have not gotten back. Been busy. I took time to look up the bill and the laws for the State of Utah. Also the lawsuits that have been filed. Back when all this happened some in 2008 and some in 2010 the law was trying to be understood. High water marks and private property. The land under the creeks or rivers is private property and can not be walked on. SFW did fight for some of the rivers to be used but not all. The reason? Some are not big enough to float and be lawfull. Nowing if they tried for all it would not happen so you get what you can get. You should know that.

Outdoors, I know that SFW wanted the whole country delisted for the wolves and not just Montana and Idaho. Something that we all want. Isn't that the way that it should be. That did undercut a nationwide plan. but better than nothing. \

As far as the Arizona tag grab, Arizona Sportsmen For Wildlife has nothing to do with Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife. NOTHING AT ALL. Anyone that thinks that is wrong, Anyone that says they know it is is a liar.

As far as Alaska, the State puts people into office, not SFW. Ask the State of Alaska why they did it.

As to filing audited financilas if you were at the Big Game Board meeting when they were voting on the 30 units for deer and stayed to the end, the accountant for the DFG gave the reports on the groups that receive tags and SFW was the best in doing their reports and MDF was right there. Some were late and one had not reported at all. That was the report given at the Big Game Board.

The reason that the DFG do not run the expo is because they do not have the time. They have too many other things to take care of and need no more responsibilities. Also the reason that the State allowed the Expo and selling of the tags was the money that it brings in from out of state. Money for the state in taxes and so on is how this State survives.
 
Birdman Mt has used the high water mark with great success, the average Joes love to fish there. SFW caved into the landowners. Looking out for the majority huh? I'm surprised you had to look it up.
 
Has hunting improved in UT since organizations like SFW, and MDF started selling tags to the higgest bidder?Has SFW funded projects that have increased the quality and quanity of animals in the areas you regulary hunt? How you answer that question will determine where you stand. Don called me a few years back to discuss some of the issues I have with SFW.He was polite and very cordial. However, when asked about conservation tag money going to worth while projects, He talked about a 100K+ project on the Henerys that will benefit deer and buffalo. There in lies the problem. We are spending hundreds of thousands of conservation dollars to improve hunting on the very units where the people who purchase these tags hunt. Think about it! Were spending money in areas where 90% of the average hunters will never get to hunt. I think SFW started out with a noble cause, but than money and politics entered the picture and corruption quickly followed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-12 AT 11:26AM (MST)[p]SFW publicly took a neutral position on the stream access issue but then privately threw its support behind the landowners. In fact, Don Peay stated the following regarding the bill: "This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy. . . . People violated their private property rights." (http://www.sltrib.com/outdoors/ci_14839041) Does that sound neutral to you? No doubt there are a few fly fisherman that push the limits and trespass. However, was that a proper basis for SFW to turn on the average spportsmen in favor of the landowners?

This should be of no surprise to anyone? Don's and SFW's position on the issue of stream access is entirely consistent with Don's and SFW's position on (1) limited hunting; (2) landowner tags; (3) conservation permits; (4) convention permits; and (5) Don's recent comments regarding the need to move away from the North American Converservation Model in an effort to privatize hunting and wildlife management. It is all part of the SFW agenda.

Now stand back and ask yourself who will benefit from this agenda? Not the rank and file sportsmen. Yes, the average joe will see some minimal benefits from habitat restoration, transplants, etc. However, the real beneficiaries are the wealthy sportsmen, the landowners, the guides and the outfitters. Cabinfever's comments regarding the improvements on the Henry Mountains are right on point.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
I would like to know who is going to have the influence to get our deer herds back where all hunters want them to be. Who is going to stop the Wolf from invading our state? Some of you are bitching about SFW, who I think are on our side. Do you think the DWR will fix this problem? They are the one that have created it. I believe in stenght in numbers, not just at a national level, but local where we live and hunt.
 
I can see your point Cabin. I agree, more money could be used for general elk and deer units. In my local area $320,000 was spent on the Cache unit, which has a lot of public land. SFW bought 160 acres up Smithfield Dry canyon for winter range helping deer, elk, turkeys, etc. It provides sportsmen access for all to Mt Naomi Wilderness. It is a place where we feed deer, when emergency feeding warrents.

We pay for hay to feed elk on the Millville face. If the DWR cut the herd in half, that would mean less permits for the ave Joe hunter.

Thanks to SFW and NWTF we have over the counter turkey permits. Pheasant hunting has gone down hill on public ground, because of loss of habitat. Turkey and Chucker hunting is a way to get kids involved in upland game hunting.

SFW continues to spend a lot of money to help ave hunters with winter range habitat, sheep, turkey,Bison, transplants. Hunting is better with most species in Utah, except deer.

We have about 2 million going to coyote control this year, to help with fawn survival. Hope it will help.

How much money are other western states using on predator control, wildlife transplants, habitat and water projects?

Projects on the Henry's has helped the Bison herd. We now have a Henry mountain and Book Cliffs Bison hunts this year. Yes, I won't ever hunt deer on the Henry's, but I hope to hunt Buffalo on the Books or Henry's some day.

Some complain about conservation permits is stealing from ave hunters. If Utah DWR didn't have funds to do all the projects needed, buying easments, rehabing habitat, doing water projects, doing transplants, etc. How many permits would we loose.

If SFW and BGF, and other groups with BGF were not fighting the wolf delisting fights. How many permits for the ave Joe would we loose?

I know ID, MT, and WY have lost a lot of elk and Moose permits the past few years,that the ave Joe hunter like me would like to have.

I don't know of another conservation group that has even come close to doing more for the ave hunter in Ut than SFW.

SFW continues to do a lot for the ave hunter.

Our future of hunting relys on the ave hunter being involved, recruiting new hunters, and having a strong voice for sportsmen politically to raise enough money to fight the political battles. ie. Predator management with wolves, Grizzly,Cats, coyotes, etc. Public access for sportsmen to hunt on public lands. Etc.

Got to go. Just a few thoughts.
 
huntin50-

Once again, when these groups are raising millions of dollars a year from the sale of tags taken from the general draw, there better be some benefit to the average sportsmen. Politicians call that trickle down economics. Utah has set aside 500+ premium tags (330+ conservation permits and 200 convention permits) for these groups to sell to allegedly raise money for conservation. Utah has set aside more high dollar tags than all of the other western states combined. I heard this statement directly from the assistant director of the DWR at the SCI banquet on Saturday night. If this was truly the answer to improved hunting and wildlife management then why isn't Utah the crown jewel of the west when it comes to big game hunting? Why are Utah's deer herds in the tank? Why haven't the millions of dollars generated from these tags been used to turn around our dwinding deer deer herds? Why the sudden change in focus on the part of SFW from habitat improvement to predator control? Why haven't these funds been used to determine the cause of our dwindling deer herds? Simply put, many other western states put out as good, if not a better product, than Utah with far less investment in the form of conservation and convention permits. I think the average sportsman's return on investment from these 500+ permits is simply too low.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
Dearlove, I looked it up to make sure of what is what. First of all, Montana is Montana and not Utah. Rules in Montana do not apply in Utah. I was involved with the Utah lake high water line on the farm. Know more about that. In Montana they use the high water mark but it does not allow you to get out of the stream for any reason if it is on posted property. But that is Montana law. Utah says all private land is posted and written permission is required.

Hawkeye, I looked at the SLTrib article. Reminds me of the article that they put in during the 2010 expo quoting Byron Bateman about how you could come and try out golf clubs and learn to improve your swing. You know as well as I do how the media works. Got to make a good story.
as for what they do for the average Joe, The chaining around Fish Lake, Up Spanish Fork Canyon, Reseeding after the big fire west of Cove Fort. Chaining and fencing in the Beaver area. Fencing and the right of way for animals under the highway in Spanish Fork Canyon. School trustlands least and then opened to the public.

As for habitat improvement. I think USU did the study saying that Utah now has enough habitat for an additional 200,000 thousand head of animals. That is one reason more is being used for preditor control and less on habitat. The habitat seems to be there. The emplants on the does this year on the Monroe to locate the fawns when born to put tracking on them and find out what is causing them to die. Ways of trying to find out about the decrease in the deer herd. The DWR and SFW are working closely and together to get this information. These things are all done for the average Joe. The transplanting of the buffalo to the book cliffs. That was for those average Joe wanting to hunt buffalo. Many more things as it goes on and on.
 
Hawk,

I have been to meeting for 20 years with DWR to try to improve things. They have said the main problem is Habitat. In Utah we have more conservation tags than all western states combined I agree. We also are doing more projects than all other states combined as well. The Biologist say habitat, habitat, habitat. It's not just habitat. We can't change the weather. We have tried to reduce deer mortality with less road kills. Highway fencing and underpasses in migration routes.

I think Utahs growth and projected growth over the next 20 years is greater than ID,WY,NV,CO.

ID, WY, and MT Elk and Moose hunting is taking it in the shorts because of wolves and Grizzlys.

All western states deer populations and hunting are and have declined the past 10 yrs.

In Ut we are going to try to pound the coyotes and see if we get more fawns to survive. We have about 2 million dollars for coyote control. We will see what changes will occur.

Co has a lot of deer and better habitat, and is the only state that still has pretty good deer hunting imo. It has gone down hill the past 5 years.

I support the NRA and many conservation groups. SFW is at least trying to make a difference and doing something. Tell me another group that is really trying to make a difference and getting things done for deer in the west, and what they are doing? I will support them.
 
SFW keeping proceeds from public tags = welfare. SFW is clearly subsidized by public tags. Amazing that welfare has to fund what so many claim is a noble organization. Why does SFW not exist without the handouts that are now in the millions of dollars? SFW brags about all it does. Why not do it with member donations rather than welfare handouts from the state?
 
huntin50

The argument isn't whether SFW is spending the money on projects, the argument is whether the money spent has made hunting better in your area. As a hunter, I'm will to support the sale of these tags if I know they are getting results. I hope they are at least preventing further decline of mule deer.I'm not 100% against SFW, I'm just not convinced the money is used in the best interest of all sportsmen.

You said:
"SFW continues to spend a lot of money to help ave hunters with winter range habitat, sheep, turkey,Bison, transplants. Hunting is better with most species in Utah, except deer."

With all due respect huntin50, your not going to gain any followers chanting that mantra. The average sportsman doesn't put a lot of stock into once in a lifetime species. What animal does the average hunter hunt more than any species in the state? Yep! Deer. You can tell me about all the money SFW has spent on BIG projects, but at the end of the day hunters want results they can hanf their tag on....pun intended.
 
Answer this question. When did all of the chaining and reseeding on the deer and elk winter range start? 100s of acres have been added to help them survive the winters. SFW has a hell of alot to do with that, not the DWR. They are to busy buying new trucks and hiring more cops with their, I mean, our tax dollars. Maybe if you drew a tag you would not ##### so much.
 
Outdoors, True that public tags are used by SFW and other groups. No, all the tags do not go to SFW. It was set up by the State on how the money could be used and what percentage went where. The State realized more money could be raised by doing the tag auctions and the way it was set up. SFW would still exist without the so called handouts but without the tag money they could not get the things done that they are doing. If they were not being successful with the money and using it in the right way as presented by the State don't you think that the State would say no more? In other words, SFW is within compliance with the State regulations and proceedures as to the money that comes from the conservation tags. Don't blame them for something they are doing following the rules set but the State of Utah.
 
Maybe the answer to the question of low deer numbers is in management. Who sold all the doe and cow tags of few years ago? Who sold over 100 Bull tags on the Dutton afew years ago? The DWR gets something good going then over sell tags, not action tags general draw tags. I believe if the SFW had control over our game managment we would have alot more BIG game and would cost us alot less to hunt them. Call a spade a spade
 
hawkeye

To answer your question. It's because SFW has finally realized that habitat is not the only answer and have spent millions over the last 10 years proving it. I believe we are on the right track with the smaller units and tag reductions. If in deed, they are spending 2 million on killing coyotes, I think that is a great investment for sportsman. Bottom line is, dead deer don't eat habitat.We need to make the hard sacrifices now so we can reap what we sow down the road.This means allowing our herds to reach objectives by harvesting fewer animals.More animals means more tags.
 
First, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. On wolves I will stand with whoever, SFW, RMEF, whoever.

Now, some of you guys need to get off the Wasatch Front. The majority of acreage in this state is PUBLIC LAND, therefore not developable, and not developed. These lands for the most part have not changed in a century SO PLEASE stop with the SFW line about habitiat.
If SFW gets their way, that public land will be gone to the highest bidder, making it then huntable to the deep pockets.

I am pro rich guy, pro wealth, pro making money. I don't think that means that I should be supportive of special privledges for them. I STILL TO THIS DAY have never gotten a reason how it is good for wildlife that Denny Austad hunts elk in utah every year, but you get to be subject to a draw and a waiting period. IF GOOD OLE DENNY is such a friend of wildlife, he can scratch a check anytime, without the promise of a guaranteed tag.

I heard a commentator on ESPN talking about Mark Sanchez reacting to Tebow with a twitter explanining how he was the man. The commentator simply said, "if your the man you don't have to tell everyone your the man". If SFW is such a great organization, why does it have to tell everyone how great it is? I don't see near the discussion about DU, could that be because they actually do something other than support themselves with welfare and put out a ton of PR?

No group that goes after "greedy fly fisherman", wants to overhaul the North American model for wildlife management, backdoors wolf legislation, etc..., is for the average sportsman. The average sportsman just wants to spend time outdoors, without mortgaging the house. Teddy Roosevelt hunted all over the world, but I haven't seen any public land he wanted to lock up for "pay for play", Don Peay is NO TEDDY ROOSEVELT!!!



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Teddy Roosevelt battled with greaseballs like Don Peay all the time, and every time you go hunting on public land you should be thankful Teddy won, because it would be a far different place if he hadn't.
 
So, SFW keeps getting welfare tags and this is proof SFW is a good investment of that welfare? I was under the impression that government rarely cuts off welfare. Welfare handouts rapidly become entitlements.

Again, why is even 1 penny of welfare given to SFW? Does the state give money to the Church? To the Boy Scouts? Salvation Army? Those seem outstanding organizations that do wonderful things. Why do those groups have to pay their own way but SFW does not?

Heck, let's take all state assets that are "under-valued" and let a 3rd party auction them off and keep the excess. That parking space on the street very close to the convention center that is $1.50 and hour...gosh, let me raise the rate and I will give you guys $1.50 an hour and I will charge, oh, $5 and hour and keep the $3.50. Thanks for the welfare!

Why not auction of the on-ramp to the state highway. Sell off a state park or two.

Yep, the state should not keep the excess. Better to set up a welfare system for a bunch of 3rd parties to benefit from a tag grab.
 
First of all I do not see where SFW is trying to get all the land sold to make it impossible to hunt. Everything that they have bought so far has become open to the public. Not just SFW members, but the public. That SFW will sell all public land if they got the chance is bull and you know it.
If Denny Austad wants to buy a tag every year. More power to him. That is just more money that can be used to create better hunting. He has the deep pockets and is willing to spend it. Where do you think that the money comes from that gets put on the ground. From the Denny Austads. Without money things can not get done. That is simple.
I wonder if you are just jealous that you can not do it. He can scratch a check anytime and you have no idea if he does it now.
 
Wow it would seriously take a fulltime employee to counter all the half truths misleading statements and flatout lies some of you are dumping on here. It wouldn't surprise me if one of you said "SFW was triing to do away with the west desert vernon LE area" oh wait someone already pulled that one out of their arse cause they herd it from their cousins friend twice removed.

Some of you know better but because of an ax to grind you wont even admit you went to the Expo because you wanted a chance to draw one of those tags sfw has taken from the average joe and made them available to only those Wealthy types who can afford to go to Salt Lake and apply. Then heaven forbid we have to fork out $5 to apply instead of only the $10 if those tags were left in the regular draw that only the average joe can afford. It is not hard to see that only the wealthy or connected draw at the expo while the average joe hunter is left to draw the reject tags left for the regular draw.
It is pitiful how the wolf delisting always comes up that SFW wanted to get rid of the Idaho/Montana law we now have. If you would look at the facts biggame forever was against that compromise as long as the chance for a complete delisting was possible that law effectively killed the chance for greater
delisting then it got down to only 6 western states but then the anti's and some sportsmens groups threw support behind the bill we now have and when it was apperant that we were not going to get 6 states the compromise was made and a little chunk of Utah was added and we got what we have now.
If you think it is only now SFW has got on the predator bandwagon maybe look thru the archives on this site and see all the love the houndsmen have sent SFW over the years. I personally have been grabbed by a DWR bioligist and told in a not so nice voice how I had just ruined years worth of work in creating a trophy cougar unit, (I can't quote the houndsman on these forums) because SFW believed the dwr should be held to the predator management plans as strictly as they were fighting to hold to the mule deer plans. while sportsmen were willing to cut tags, use 5 day seasons etc. It just didn't matter that the herd was below 75%, many times way below, as long as the buck/doe ratio was at 15 lets get every tag possible.
Any one that says the conservation groups are keeping the majority of the money from the sale of conservation tags should really look at the facts from the DWR. It might make you feel good but it is just plain wrong. The most amazing thing is some actually think complaining on these forums makes a difference. I think it was ayear and a half ago a bigtime radio show host got on here and made a big stink about 30 units then had a big well publicized mtg with politicians, DWR, concerned sportsmen and others then when the smoke cleared there was 25 peoplein the room half were staff and invited guests. Does anyone know when his show is on now? I haven't been able to find it.
What I'm sayin is what goes on in MM pretty much stays in MM.
 
I guess thats why THE DON had his dog and pony show last year, because no one knows what goes on here. My friend, overtagging the Manti to support the Pahvant only helps the Pahvant, it doesn't help the Manti. Once again these arguments come down to different visions. Mine is that hunting is a right. It is my western heritage to hunt. It is my kids heritage to hunt. Hunting is a lifestyle. The other vision(SFW)is that only the connected have the right to hunt. Leaving a right for the next generation isn't nearly as important as creating profitable buisness. To them, hunting is simply a commercial enterprise, similar to agriculture, and the only thing that matters is size. Its much better to have 1 400 point elk, than 20 250 point elk, and therefore the elk should go to the highest bidder. Again, read the following signature, SFW has helped to get rid of the road hunters, the oppurtunists are now on the way out, unless you guys have huge cash, your next.


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-12 AT 11:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-12 AT 11:42?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-12 AT 11:40?PM (MST)

SFW supporters are OK with less than 20% of the money raised, used in projects? You did see the 990 tax forms, right? One look at the total expenditures shows well over $3MM. The amount that went to habitat projects is less than 10% of that. Or maybe you need the next form to decide. In the second Tax form, 2010, 1 dollar out of every 5 went to the wildlife. That's not worth all the BS.

523sfw_tax_form.jpg


8086sfw_tax_form_2010.jpg



I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
Hossblur, How did Don overtag the Manti. Did you know that the Wasatch as half the elk that the Manti has on it and they put almost twice the tags? I was at the meeting where Don was trying to talk the F&G to lower the tags on those units. Also to cut out much of the cow tags on those units. Those meetings are open to the public. You really should attend so you get the facts right. He wants more elk. You really need to attend more of the meetings and quit listening to some of the people that say they know and really do not.

4100, Interesting. I see 235,000 for wolf control, 976,000 for conservation projects, 410,000 for habitat, and 443,000 that is other projects besides the use of conservation tags such as Dry mountain replanting and so forth that conservation tag monies could not be used for because the F&G said no. Of course you are intitled to your own misleading information that you want to put out.
 
Birdman,

The $443,507 is not listed as projects. It is listed as other expenses. That is not the same as projects. There are a few strange points that catch my eye...

Grants for governments, organizations or people outside the U.S., Miscellaneous, other? These three things total $343,584. That is a chuck of change to be listed as grants, miscellaneous and other with no further explanation.

What has been done for wolf control? Is this lobbying fees and consulting? I honestly don't know and would like to hear an explanation. Money used to fight wolf legislation is very important but if it was used to fight the passing of the Simpson-Tester bill than that can hardly be counted as conservation IMO.

In total: $410300 was spent on habit improvement, $976,395 was spent on conservation projects, $409,500 was spent on salaries and $485,242 was spent on consulting. Total spent on conservation is $1,386,695 out of $4,958,596. ?Of course you are intitled to your own misleading information that you want to put out.?
 
Interesting that you put up an article that is not correct. The problem with news articles, the writer is trying to make a name for him or herself. There is no Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife in Arizona.
Seems to be very one sided. almost like vote for Obama. By the way, did you take time to read the print at the bottom of the article?

Copyright 2012 The Salt Lake Tribune. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
Haha, nice spin birdie. Yeah, I did read it. You trying to spin something else? ;-)
 
Big 6,

SFW is singled out the most because they fight against general hunting oportunities the most. Whenever there is a proposal to cut dates, cut tags, increase prices, and shrink boundaries, SFW is there. This is only for general hunts of course. They are always up for the expansion of le hunts and have their hand out for a slice of the additional l.e. tags.

SFW fully deserves the pushback they have been getting.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-12 AT 08:28PM (MST)[p]Utah400, The conservation projects is listed different because that money comes from the conservation tags. That is 60% of the tag money that must be used for conservation projects. The replanting of Dry Mountain for instance did not come from the conservation money. That comes from other. Grants for governments, organizations or people outside the U.S is listed at $0. No they do not break it down to every dollar. The return does not call for it to be broken down to every dollar spent. They do what the tax return calls for. Sorry it does not meet your desires. Are you saying that the people that work for SFW do not deserve to be paid for what they do? Are you saying that other expenses should not have to be paid? SFW stays within the guidelines of a 501c3 organization. They have to account for what they do. They have had all audits come through totally clean. Sorry that you demand more. You will not get it. No missleading information other than what you are trying to pull.

For those that read an article in a paper and say it is correct then read the article in the Billings

Wuffie, Not trying to spin anything. The article is not correct. Not even. There is information in that article that is false. No DP organization in Arizona. FACT.

Smellybuck, No where have I seen that SFW has fought agianst the general hunter or his opertunities. They have bought the rights to school trust lands and opened it up to the public. They have bought property turning it over to the state requiring it to be open to the public. No where have they said, this is for SFW members, it has always been for the public. You are right, they should have made a CWMU out of the trust lands for their own use. Yes the 30 units was made for the benefit of trying to help with the deer herd. Not everyone agreed but a lot did. Did you know that they ask not to cut the tags but to change them to archery? They have fought to increase the elk and other hunting animals. They have tried to do away with the doe tags again this year as well as lots of the cow elk tags. Course you would not understand that part. Yes they did push for a $5 increase on tags with the money to be set aside for the use of predator control. Something much needed.

For those that can read an article in a newspaper and say it is correct and true, read the article in the Billingsgazette where in Yellowstone the wolves have not affected the decline of the elk but it has been the weather. Must be true, says it in the paper.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 02:27AM (MST)[p]This was my favorite part, of course it is not true??


But not everyone. In particular, meet Don Peay and Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. SFW was founded in Utah and has spread throughout the West. One state at a time, it is dismantling the very idea of a public wildlife resource, and replacing it with special privileges for the privileged.
 
Rugarm77, It is a newpaper article. Some of the statements made are not true. A spin by the author. If you think that newspapers are correct in what they right, note that the major Montana newspaper, the Billings Gazette had an article in it the other day saying that wolves had little to do with the elk disapearing in Yellowstone. It is the weather that has caused them to disapear so fast.
 
Birdman - What part of that Salt Lake Trib article is NOT true?

Please, provide some facts to support your claim.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
>Birdman - What part of that
>Salt Lake Trib article is
>NOT true?
>
>Please, provide some facts to support
>your claim.
>
>"Hunt when you can - You're
>gonna' run out of health
>before you run out of
>money!"


+1 BigFin.

Don taught his crew well....never answer a direct question. Getting in a detailed discussion is clearly a losing hand for SFW apologists.

UT Expo failed to become more than a local event as evidenced by so few NR attendees. UT deer herds are collapsing. AZ tag grab attempt (if quacks, walks like SFW...is SFW and the stink does not wash off). MT wolf plan doublecross. UT fisherman highwater doublecross. Convoluted financials lacking detail to easily see what % hit the ground.

Not sure what the initial plans were but today SFW and the offspring in places like AZ are directing most of there energy into political lobbying with getting more tag welfare to pay admin costs as #1 focus.
 
Lol Birdman the expo had record attendance with NR from 48 differant states and an all time record hi of NR so get your facts strait. Lobbying your dam right the SFW just played a mayjor roll in securing $1,300,000.00 for The Mule Deer Recovery Act and will pay out to any sportsman as an $50 coyote bounty.
 
1.3 million in coyote bounties is going to recover mule deer...what a waste of money, and a joke.

I think I'll bring a few dozen WY coyotes over to Utah to cash in on the bounty...that will get the point across just how dumb this idea really is.

SFW is a joke...lets rip 1.3 million from the state of Utah and pay off some more idiots with $50 bounties.

SFW continues to prove that stupid ideas are the gifts that keep on giving.
 
Birdman - What's taking so long? Waiting for your proof of anything that is incorrect in that SLC Trib article.


Buzz, that is a great idea. Why didn't I think of that? I shoot a ton of coyotes.

It would be easier to just cut off the ears and turn them in for $50, rather than skin, stretch, and sell them at an auction. I have a UT license from applying in the draw each year, so these might all be UT coyotes.

I might have found a way to pay for my UT apps every year. Hell, as many as I could shoot up here on some MT ranches, I could probably bid on an auction tag.

I think I will tell Breaks Runner to save his coyote ears. I will run them down to UT for him and he can pay for my gas. UT would need to appropriate more funds the way that guy shoots coyotes.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Think you fellas might have the wrong idea on the coyote/predator funds and how it will all go down. I absolutely detest the way the bills came about and the misinformation given to get them passed, but the money will be put to good use instead of paying out 50 dollar bounties. No one knows if it will work or not, studies show ordinarily it wouldn't have the desiered effect, but then again the way it's gonna work has never been tried before. Who knows?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]Some Facts.

1. I have never talked to this guy, Ben Lamb. How does he know what i think ? How can he even comment on people he has never met ? How does he know what Rob Keck, former CEO of the 500,000 member NWTF and I talked about on the Montana Elk and Pheasant hunt with then Governor Romney?

As some astute sportsmen have noted, isn't it nice a potential president would like to come out and learn about hunting and western issues ? Should not sportsmen celebrate the fact that people who might make lots of rules about land use and wildlfie mangement care enough learn about it, and participate in our sport?

The anti Hunting pro predator guy in Alaska misrepresented what I said. What I said, according to the Alaska article was "we support public ownership of wildlife, but there are some tremendous declines in game populations on our public lands, and solutions might require some different approaches." He insinuated, this was somehow a comment against the North American Model where in fact this was a comment of how we could improve on aspects of the North American Model to create more abundant wildlife (isn't this the very goal of the North American Model?). I would say that is twisting my words to mean just the contrary of what I actually said.

The study just releasesd, Yellowstone elk herd down 10% again this year, 75 percent overall. Many other moose and elk herds on the same downward trend line. The very press guys attacking me seem to think this is ok. Do you? I don't and I told them in no uncertain terms.

2. I did tell the writter in Alaska that socialism is destroying America, and the concept of socialism will destroy our herds as well. Hunters and landowner invest more in wildlife than non-hunters, but some say that the sportsmen shouldn't have any more say than those that don't invest in its well being." How they think that is an attack on Roosevelt is a mystery to me!

3. In 2008, in Reno, at the Whitehouse meeting on the future of Conservation, i got into a discussion with most of those folks, especially Director Frampton of South Carolina. Their main point was the future of conservation is general tax money from the state and federal government. I said the future of conservation is abundant herds, and that "Wall Street is crashing today, state and fedearal budgets crash tomorrow and for many years into the future." Downward trends in the economy would stronly suggest I was on to something.


Yesterday I was told that some of these same agencies who have built their programs on general fund tax money, NOT abundant game herds and flocks and fisheries, have laid off lots of people and cut lots of programs for wildlife since 2008. A lot of states and the Feds are broke, and that general fund wildlife model will get worse - less money - not more in the future.

The future of conservation is abundant herds and flocks. And that means predator control, and habitat restoration.

Sportsmen have always paid the bill, and most non hunters are more worried about education, health care, highways, prisons, not huge wildlfie herds for hunters to hunt.

Yes, TR left us a great legacy of public lands. But TR's underlying goal was abudnant game herds. Read his journals, he came out to Yellowstone and killed several elk, moose, bighorn, and grizzlies and wolves - in one trip. TR was an abundance guy, a manger, not a watch predators kill herds off, and see hunting opportunities decline.

4. Conversly compared to other states where herds are in decline, Utah herds of Bighorn, Elk, Moose, Bison, Mountain Goats, antelope, and some deer units are increasing. Meaning lots more public hunting opportunities. There used to be 1,000 permits on quality units 20 years ago, today there are 5,000 public permits on these same herds, and the quality is better.

How can anyone say there is less opportunity for once in a lifetime and limited draw permtis in Utah? There has been a 500% increase in 20 years.

And, the ultimate measure, the public wants to hunt Utah. Some 336,000 applications for Utah's big game tags in 2012, another 36,000 increase from last year. we have something sportsmen want. Other states like CO and WY, and ID are seeing interest decline. What is the story?

5. Regarding General Season Deer in Utah, Some of the efforts to fix it:

A. About 2002, DWR Director Conway wants a major habitat initiative to rebuild a deer herd. Together Kevin and I, WE go to DC to change some laws and get money and people and resources to fix it. To Launch this historic public land habitat restoration effort, in about 2007, the Utah DWR, just before Kevin Died of Cancer awarded:

SFW is getting the laws changed and policies in place to continue this upward trend in more and more herds. Relentless pursuit to increase the resource for everyone.

and SFH for for getting most of the money so they can do a great job restoring habitat.

By the end of 2012, this little idea and effort is NOW an 850,000 acre habitat restoration project the LARGEST PROJECT in the history of the West. Some $80 Million dollars with ten Millon More for 2012 and lots more acres for years into the future, unless funds are cut, who will make sure that does not happen ?

B. SFW has been a major partner to get more than $45 Million to fence Highways and build underpass structures, more being done every year.

C. Three years ago, SFW asked DWR to do a deer mortality study - to prove what we knew. Deer are being killed at to high of rate to rebuild a deer herd

D. DWR is going study now to find out answers for mortality, beleving it is coyotes,

E. Rather than just waiting for the outcome of the studies, SFW worked to get $1.25 Million additional dollars to kill enough coyotes to dramatically increase deer survival and fill up all this new forage - enough new feed for more than 250,000 more animals all year round.

F. If you cheat Buzz and bring your out-of-state coyotes to utah for bounty, and don't care enough to fix Utah's deer herd, you go to jail!!

G. SFW members are excited statewide, record turnouts this year to see the final piece in the puzzle to rebuild deer herds on tens of millions of acres of public land, for all 85,000 or so general season hunters.

It took 30 years to get into a bad deer habitat and herd situation, we are ten years into getting out, but hopefully, it will be accomplished in the next three to five years.

Now a few other statements to clarify.

Senator Hatch visited some of the first habitat restoration efforts, near Beaver, utah. He helped change the law to prevent tree huggers from blocking treatments. The Foundation for habitat restoration, was the Conservaiton Permits, and $2.2 Million a year in Utah general funds, SFW helped secure for habitat in the Utah Legislature. Additional federal funds were added to the mix.

Hatch knows WHO lead the effort to help get things done, raise the money, helped DWR and Federal land agencies get the programs going, get the money for the $2.5 Million seed storage shed built, the $70 Million total funding package. That is why Hatch mentioned Don Peay or SFW, to answer a question in a previous post.

Senator Hatch, who most believe will win re-election by a large majority in 2012, also knows who worked very, very closely with he, Senator Barrasso of Wyoming and other key leaders to get wolves delisted. Hatch called ONE sportsmen into the Meeting with Senator Leader Harry Reid, Senator Bachus and Tester, and Senators Barrasso, Enzie, Crapo and Risch. That was me, Don Peay.

Senator Hatch and Risch told us on Feb. 16, 2011, they had a four state delisting bill - worked out with some of the Democratic Senators. That Bill had ALL OF UTAH, WYOMING, IDAHO AND MONTANA TO BE DELISTED. This meeting was organized and set up by Ryan Benson of Big Game Forever. Lots of leaders of sportsmen and livestock groups in attendance.

Big Game Forever, at some point in late Feb. suggested the other sportsmen groups support Wyoming's delisting, and not leave them out by supporting a two state-only bill. Remember, leading US Senators - I have a draft of the bill - believe there is an opportunity for four state deal to be had. Why these other group decided to attack SFW and BGF, instead of staying focued on getting the best wolf delisting bill, they will have to answer that question.

SFW and BGF stayed focused on winning the wolf war, not fighting other sportsmen groups in the press.

On about April 12, Senator Hatch called me and said Don, "I am going up to meet with Leader Reid right now to finalize this Federal Budget Bill. Only a Handful of US Senators are in the room when the final deals are done.

Hatch said, WE can get the Idaho and Montana, and parts of UT, WA and OR. We didn't get Wyoming. Do you want me to take this out of the Continuing Resoultion Bill, or accept what we have ?

I did not even have time to call and consult with Ryan Benson.

I said, Senator, Take the Deal. For Three reasons.

1. We can start killing wolves now in ID and MT. Once wolves are killed, it helps the public to see that wolf hunting isn't a threat as some anti-hunting groups suggest. More importantly, Idaho and Montana can start working on elk, moose and deer recovery efforts.

2. Second, if we don't take the deal, the Animal Rigthts folks will say, we stopped this effort on the goal line again. Perhaps further discouraging sportsmen who were really working hard for Congressional solutions.

3. We were concerned that the DC hunting groups who had only recently endorsed the legislation, might not continue working the issue seriously. For example, a lobbyist for one DC hunting groups said the wolf was a "niche issue" as if destruction of Western hunting was not worthy of serious efforts. Remember a lot of these groups keep their powder dry for eastern issues, gun issues, or other issues that are closer to home.

WE went to DC and told the folks this issue is destroying the West, and we cannot wait another 3-10 years. We cam't wait for courts to decide. We told Congress, we are not going away, until this issue is fixed and Western big game herds are on their way to recovery, and prevent further destruction in other states.

So back to the BIG decision day. 45 minutes after the call asking about whether or not to take the deal, Hatch called and said, it is done.

We did not try to stop delisting, we were willing to work hard to get the best deal possible, even take a few bullets from those in the industry that didn't seem as committed to helping our friends in Wyoming.

A key point about Wyoming. Ryan Benson had been working closely with Senator Barrasso, Rep. Lumis to insert ONE MORE line into the Bill that made sure the Wyoming court ruling by Judge Johnson that said in laymens terms, Wyoming can have predator status and that does NOT violate the ESA, stood. Just as importantly, this bill was a huge victory for the right of state's to manage wildlife without federal overreach. Loosing this court victory would have been a major loss for Western wildilfe.

This was a key additional line, in the Continuing Resolution signed by President Obama on April 15, 2011. It paved the way for the USFWS to accept Wyoming's plan, which they did on October 1, 2011. Wyoming Governor Mead had a lot to do with that Oct. 1 plan acceptance, and has since worked to get the wyoming Legislature to make a few tweaks in the law, and On Sept. 1. Wyoming will have a wolf season, with predator status in most of Wyoming. I can't wait for that day.

ON April 16, the BBC news callled to get quotes from Don Peay and Byron Bateman about the historic Congressional Action. I asked the reporter with his British Accent why he called us, he said becasue your opponents said you were the SOBS that got it done.

In his state of the State address, Wyoming Governor Mead on page nine, talked about the importance of the wolf delisting, and he thanked the Wyoming Ag. community, the wyoming Guides and Outfitters, and SFW Wyoming for supporting the effort. No other sportsmen groups mentioned, go read the State of the State.

Even a critic of SFW and BGF, a self described Liberal commented on the BS article that spurred this post, basically said that BGF helped Stop a suggested wolf proposal involving Southern Colorado recently, and that BGF had a much more sophisticated process than [unmamed hunting group] or any other hunting group. That is what you get when you get aggressive and hire a Harvard trained lawyer like Benson, you get results for hunters.

There has been a tremendous amount of effort by SFW and BIG Game Forever members to restore habitats, control predators, fence highways, and have abundant game herds to hunt on our great public lands of the West.

Democratic Congressman Matheson, Leader Reid, and Senator Tester of Montana stepped up and made the wolf deal work.

I give Matheson, Edwards, Ross and several other democratic Congreesman an A, they supported delisting all the states.

I give Leader Reid and Sen. Tester a B. They got wolves delisted for part of the West, but we hoped they would have done more. I personally had meetings with our hired lobbyist and other Democratic Senators, including Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, and friends talked direclty to Claire McCaskill of Missouri and Amy Klobatchur of MN.

After the landmark victory in the west, MN, WI, and MI have had wolves delisted.

We aren't only focused on the past, we continue our extensive efforts to expand delisting for more states. Ryan Benson has been meeting with the Governor and legislators of Colorado, LT. Gov. Of Washington, and leading members of the Obama Administration, and many others to solve with wolf issue for the entire country. By Law, the USFWS needs to have a nationwide delisting proposal by this September.

Thanks to all of you for your efforts. There is tremendous support for BGF and SFW, we will keep working to deliver results for all sportsmen. We don't back away from the tough or controversial issues. If it is important to hunting and wildlife, it is important to us.

We do our best to seek input. We travel the state of Utah, and across the West, talking to sportsmen, seeking their input and helping find solutions.

Just last night, 40 Utah sportsmen from all over Utah spent 5 hours talking about how to get lots of issues right,they then left Spanish Fork at midnight, some driving for more than 5 hours, catch an hour of sleep, then off to work.

Lots of other people, groups have done a lot to help as well.

This is my one and only post on MM this year.

WE are working lots of hours to get things done for increased quantities and quality hunts on our great public lands.

with the results coming out of Yellowstone this week, it might seem that more sportsmen want to join the effort to stop major declines in deer, moose and elk populations in the west.

I love to hunt our great public lands. These are our greatest treasures and this is why tens of thousands of SFW members accross the nation support us.

If Ben Lamb or anyone wants a debate on conservation accomplishments for public land game herds and sporsmen, I welcome the debate. But, it won't be done behind code names on Internet sites.

don
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]Hey Don, Why don't you catch KTVK Phoenix tonight at 9 PM?

Consider it a little love tap from Illinois, and there is a hell of a lot more to come. That's what happens when you screw real sportsmen out of 15 Utah deer points while 7 auction tag holders cut in line. We hate you from coast to coast, and we won't stop till your packin your bags for the Yukon.........and that won't be for a sheep hunt.

BTW - RMEF really spanked yer hiney today too, didn't they?

****************************************
Member RMEF, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
Hey Don,

How's your boy from Alaska doing with his dozen or so poaching violations?

How's that AZ tag grab working out for SFW? How do you explain the fact that a bunch of other AZ wildlife organizations have cut all ties with SFW? Did you get the letter the RMEF sent out today to its membership in AZ?

What other things is SFW doing to unite hunters?

Nice spin on what really happened with SFW/BGF throwing MT and ID under the bus on the wolf delisting...care to post up that email Benson sent out again?

Care to post up the email where the NRA and several other groups put you back in line?

Laffin'....
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12
>AT 08:19?PM (MST)

>
>Hey Don, Why don't you catch
>KTVK Phoenix tonight at 9
>PM?
>
>Consider it a little love tap
>courtesy of Illinois. We
>hate you from all the
>way across the country.
>
>RMEF really spanked yer hiney today,
>didn't they?
>
>****************************************
>Memeber RMEF, UBNM, UWC & the
>SFW Hate Club
zim you should seek help its not good for your health to be so full of hate. I'm serious brother, let it go. We can disagree but there is no reason to hate. You're passionate that's great stress your opinion share your ideas on this site but Leave the hatefulness out it will accomplish nothing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]"zim you should seek help its not good for your health to be so full of hate. I'm serious brother, let it go. We can disagree but there is no reason to hate. You're passionate that's great stress your opinion share your ideas on this site but Leave the hatefulness out it will accomplish nothing."

Why don't you go suck on a rainbow colored unicorn in your candy mountain fantasy world?

Touchy feely crappola won't crush snakes like DP & SFW.


I know what your thinking. Yes, that's DP inside the cave.

****************************************
Member RMEF, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
I'm trying to give you some helpful advise. Get rid of that hate you'll sleep better, you might even make some new friend. I sure hope you draw that Utah nonres deer tag before it kills you. We all know your odds are more important then fixing Utah's deer heard. Keep seeking to destroy conservation in Utah.
 
Talk about a thankless job! WOW
Hell im glad DP is fighting for our wildlife herds even if some will just sit back and #####.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 09:40PM (MST)[p]>I'm trying to give you some
>helpful advise. Get rid of
>that hate you'll sleep better,
>you might even make some
>new friend. I sure hope
>you draw that Utah nonres
>deer tag before it kills
>you. We all know your
>odds are more important then
>fixing Utah's deer heard. Keep
>seeking to destroy conservation
>in Utah.

Oh I sleep just fine. I always do when I know I've done the best I can to stop criminals. Running 20 miles per week doesn't hurt either. Just completed my annual physical.......model of health as usual. Least that's what the doc says.

You go right ahead weaving your fairyland fables about someone you've never met. So your fantasy is that my motivations are selfish? Are you aware I have e-mailed every legislator in Idaho on their brewing tag grab? Are you aware I have not applied for any hunting tag in Idaho in over 12 years? What up with that? Hard to believe there are actually some honest sportsmen who still believe in Teddy Roosevelt's model, isn't it? Guess you must think I'm a socialist too or something like Don does.

****************************************
Member RMEF, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 09:57PM (MST)[p]"If Ben Lamb or anyone wants a debate on conservation accomplishments for public land game herds and sporsmen, I welcome the debate. But, it won't be done behind code names on Internet sites."

JMO..........7 posts??? Really??? Do I smell a code name here? Or is that you, DP? :)

****************************************
Member RMEF, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
Don, I appreciate your response. Obviously, it took some time to write. However, as a former SFW supporter (I am currently sitting in front of two paintings I bought at one of your banquets), I feel I must be honest with you and let you know I no longer can support your organization.

I feel SFW went from a very noble organization to one that no longer looks out for the future of our sport. Most youth will never have a high-quality hunt in Utah, very much do to policies you fought for.

I'm sure you disagree. And that is fine with me. That is, as you say, the American Model.

Grizzly
 
I wonder if Tester will collaborate the same information. Peay show us some proof of your claimed efforts to delist the wolves in Montana, and Idaho. Post up some e-mails that support your drivel. If the rest of your Biography is as full of BS as your saving us in the wolf deal is, then it isn't worth the time you took to write it. Now if you will excuse me I have to put on some taller waders.





I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
JMO my initials look up my profile. Nothing to hide. You keep fighting so called criminals buddy, while SFW members not just Don Peay work on restoring our deer heards so everyone has a opportunity to have a successful hunt in this great state of Utah. Even hate filled selfish guys from Illinois.
 
Interesting, Don Peay puts out a statement and is blasted by a bunch of people talking about things they know nothing about. The big blast was AZSFW. Funny how you all bring Don into AZSFW and their tag grab. Has nothing to do with Don or Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife. But then again. Bunch of people that think that they know everything and really do not. The big thing is that Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife and the Arizona group Sportsmen For Wildlife are totally different except for the SFW. NOW THAT IS A FACT. Anywone that says they are the same are wrong. Anyone that says that they KNOW they are the same is a LIAR. But then. You all think that you know everything. In reality you know nothing. I know that you are so full of hatrid and all that that is fine. Just stick to facts. You all want proof from Don and SFW. Why don't you all prove that he did say what you say he did and does do what you say he does. Na, hear say is much more fun.
 
First, Birdman bails out when asked to provide any facts to counter what was written in the Trib.

Then, dkpeay provides delusional fairy tales of what supposedly happened with wolf delisting, hoping to create a smoke screen of what was reported in the Trib. Predictably nothing is provided to refute any of the facts in the SLC Trib article.

Who's next? Asshat sizes being taken.

We are still waiting for the facts of what is claimed by Birdman as incorrect in the Trib article. Anyone have those facts. So far, two attempts and two strikes.

By the way, the article was written by Ben Long, not Ben Lamb. Though both are very knowledgeable on the topic.

Wonder if dkpeay is serious about that debate offer? When and where? All topics fair game? Facts only, no unsubstantiated fairy tales? Nothing off limits as it relates to wildlife, access, and issues of hunting and fishing? All about issues like ......

- Like how a group is funded by hundreds of Utah hunting tags, the majority of which require little, or no, revenue back to the state, yet claims they are doing so much work with their own efforts?

- Like how one group is lead by a guy who loves to use the term socialism when talking about the laws for western wildlife allocation, yet that group depends on a huge government handout of public tags to keep the doors open. I think the term wildlife welfare should be part of that debate question?

- Like how the handout money is used as seed cash for chapters in other states where plans are implemented to try steal even more raffle tags in a neighboring state, building a bigger cash flow jackpot?

- Like how little money some groups put back in the ground, even though they receive millions in funds from raffle tags, and some from auction tags?

- Like how auction tag money required to go back to the state is not money the organization put in the ground, given it is really the state who put the money in the ground?

- Like the topic of the Public Trust Doctrine and how wildlife is held in trust for all citizens, and not to be allocated for the exclusive use of any group?

- Like a debate about the workings and tenants of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, not to be confused with the Communist Manifesto or Marxist Theory?

- Like Martin v. Waddell and how the 10th Amendment provides the public ownership in wildlife?

- Like the Federalist Papers and how upon declaring independence the Colonists retained ownership of all items not specifically granted to the Republic, with wildlife being an item retained by the states and not granted to the Feds or the private landowners?

- Like how the Simpson-Tester wolf deal really came down and what groups were the Donny Come Lately to the game, then when they got handed their teeth those late comers asked if they could go join the victory celebration by petitioning to be involved in the final legal steam rolling of the wolf wingnuts, even though the group tried to kill the game plan that provided real victory?

- Like how one group claimed Simpson-Tester would ruin delisting in Wyoming and the Great Lakes states, then when the Great Lakes states got their delisting, that group tried to take credit for it the success?

- Like how one group said the Simpson-Tester language of "without judicial" review would never hold up in court, yet cried when Wyoming did not get that supposed terrible language?

- Like how one group who said the "without judicial review" language of Simpson-Tester would never hold up in court, but claimed credit when the real players went to the 9th Circuit and swept the last remnants of the wolf wingnuts off the field?

- Like how one supposed hunting group tried to get outfitters allocated their own pool of tags in Wyoming?

- Like how a Utah group bragged of getting one of their friends appointed the Director of AK Fish and Game, even bragging about their success, then crawling in a hole when that individual resigned in the face of a dozen illegal outfitting and hunting charges?

- Like how one group sponsored and supported legislation, HB 141 in Utah, to overturn the case of Conaster v. Johnson, screwing anglers from reasonable stream access, then saying they were are supporting the average guy?

- Like ........ ?

Hmmmm,that could be very interesting.


"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Thank you Don for giving us all some real info. Most of us know that all of the haters on here are who undermine the North American Model and do nothing. SFW puts hard dallors on the ground and anyone that is watching knows it. Wolf War,fencing,Mule Deer Recovery Act, Winter Range,Numerus conservation projects all over the state. THANKS Wayne
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 11:29PM (MST)[p]I enjoyed reading this blurb.

"In his state of the State address, Wyoming Governor Mead on page nine, talked about the importance of the wolf delisting, and he thanked the Wyoming Ag. community, the wyoming Guides and Outfitters, and SFW Wyoming for supporting the effort. No other sportsmen groups mentioned, go read the State of the State."

The real question is, who's providing oral gratification to who in that group. Mead bought his way into office with the support of the Ag community. Not hard to put two and two together. What a joke...
 
"I welcome the debate. But, it won't be done behind code names on Internet sites."

OK so now we are up to 3 SFW supporters.........a "code name" with 8 posts, a "code name" with 3 posts, and everyone's fav Birdman.

Sweet. :p


***********************************
Member RMEF, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
Congrats zim your a bigger basement dwelling mommas boy nerd than SFW supporters. You should be proud
 
Ryan Benson really helped! Not.


Yesterday?s development in wolf delisting:

Some of you may of heard that wolf delisting language was included in the House C.R. to keep the government funded. Unfortunately, the language in the C.R. is not the good development it appears to be. See Rehberg press release below.

Unfortunately the language that is included is the administration?s language that is being pushed by Tester and Baucus. The language leaves most of the country squarely in the cross hairs of unmanaged wolves?. It leaves the door open to relisting in Idaho and Montana. Does nothing to stop the wave of spreading destruction anywhere else. Doesn?t delist most wolf states. Does nothing to restore state management. Doesn?t end the endless cycle of wasteful litigation. Keeps the spigot of EAJA funding for enviro litigants alive diverting millions of dollars from our children?s and grandchildren?s future into lawyers and environmental endowment funds. For all these reasons, the C.R. Approach could never be ?The American Big Game and Livestock Protection Act? as H.R. 509 and S. 249 are so appropriately named.

Dan Ashe convinced Simpson from Idaho to break ranks with the 48 Senators and Congressmen that are working on the right solution. 2 Senators recognize the need for a fix, but are pushing a watered down non-solution that has no support. Why are we such a nation of ambulance chasers sometimes? Why are some officials afraid of obvious solutions to stop the hemorrhaging once and for all? This is a $100 Million a year problem that is only getting worse, bigger, deeper and more widespread.

Last year a very similar approach was used by the anti-wolf management folks. They make it appear to be a compromise, but ultimately they divide the ranks and then kill the watered down solution as well. The folks who are pushing this want no wolf management, not even under the watered down scenario.

We all need to call Simpson today and tell him he is falling for politics of divide and conquer. Tell him you do not support the CR that the ONLY solution is H.R. 509.

DC office 202-225-5531
Boise office 208-334-1953
Email: simpson.house.gov

Ryan Benson, {Doctor of Juris Prudence. , Harvard University}
 
I have know Don for 20 years. I don't agree with everything SFW has done. I know many board members, accomplishments, and issues discussed with UDWR over the years. I and used to be a board member.

Don,
Thanks for fighting for all sportsmen, our kids, Rich guys and ave Joes, and our future.

I'm sure the few haters would have a different opinon if they had witnessed the battles fought by Don, and BGF, for our future.

I have been to some meetings with the DWR and Senator Hatch staff. I know what has gotten done and who did them.

Keep up the good work. Thanks again.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-12 AT 12:33PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-12 AT 09:58?AM (MST)

Sat April 14th the UDWR and sportsmen are planting 500 service berry plants on Millville face, in Cache Valley. For those who don't live to far away and want help out.
 
Wow,so many haters. I am proud to be a member of SFW. I make my voice heard, and am glad to have the ability to do so. Any of you who want to change things, or have a say in what SFW does, or is trying to do,can, it is open enrollment. We are all american's and sportsmen, doing our best to make a positive difference.
Thanks, Don, for all you are trying to do.
K. W.
 
Hey Birdman, I thought that all the whiners in a forum weren't very important, no one listens, looking pretty damn stupid now? Guess your hero THE DON must, because here he is with a nice PR write up, mostly about how HE, THE DON is connected so well OLD ORRIN calls to ask for permission. Birdman I thought THE DON has nothing to do with SFWAZ, but I just read him take credit for success in Wyoming? So he only is involved when what he wants is passed? Pretty much THE DON just told us he is involved in the ENTIRE WEST, so which is it, your lying, or he is?

THE DON, I read the alaskan article again, and again I saw quotation marks, meaning a quote. That means ONLY ONE OF TWO THINGS,

1. You said it
2. You didn't

If you didn't, you can take legal action. Since you haven't and are now playing the "the media has an agenda" card, I believe its safe to say you said it, most likely in a heated exchange where you lost your usual, PR/legislator spin ability, and actually let your true motives be known.

Birdman, you need only look at the ammount of "conservation tags" offered at auction, and the Manti is always one of the top two or three, never the Pahavant, Monroe, or San Juan. SFW would never want to overtag there money units.

Again, you guys out planting and cutting and feeding, goood job. Your leader is a headline grabbing, name dropping, self important SOB that is hurting your cause. I don't know who is the leader of DU, RMEF, Full Curl, etc, not because they aren't important, but because they don't self promote like THE DON.



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Dear Don;

I read recently your post on Monster Muleys where you confused my dear Friend Ben Long with me, Ben Lamb. I am flattered that you would confuse me with such a well spoken, effective advocate for wildlife such as Ben Long. In fact, I often aspire to be more like Ben.

Unfortunately, you have us confused. Let me introduce myself.

My name is Ben Lamb. I originally met your organization in 2003 in Wyoming. This is right after you formed the Wyoming Chapter of SFW. You had come in strongly supporting the position of dual classification for wolves, as proposed by the Wyoming Wool Growers and Stockgrowers Associations, and the Wyoming Farm Bureau. This plan was adopted over the objections of the actual game mangers in the Trophy Game Management Unit of the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. This department had crafted a sensible, well reasoned, and liberal approach to wolf management. It also would have met the requirement of an adequate regulatory mechanism and would have delisted wolves much, much earlier than when we shoved a sensible delisting bill up your ass in 2011.

I also helped defeat your attempts to kill the Simpson/Tester
delisting rider, and I helped defeat all of your bills in the 2011 Montana Legislative session. Especially the ones that would have been unconstitutional, diverted over $24 million in wildlife revenue, or continued the federal management of wolves for the foreseeable future.

By the way, when our stream access law was under assault, we never saw the SFW hats or shirts at the committee hearings, in the halls or with the over 450 hunters and anglers who showed up at the Capitol to rally against HB 309. We never saw SFW show up to testify alongside the hundreds of sportsmen and women who battled over 250 bills that would have severely eroded the North American Model, public opportunity and the public trust. There were bills that would have forced FWP to put economics over science, and there were bills to force the sale of public land. We killed those bills, and we killed your attempt to undermine Montana's wolf management plan. We did this alongside every other sportsmen's group and thousands of Montana hunters and anglers. Because we were able to stop your attempts to continue to wolf gravy train, we now have a hunt in Montana and Idaho. Wolves in the Great Lakes are delisted, and with any luck, Wyoming will be delisted soon.

I had the good fortune to work with Senator Tester and Senator Baucus (it's spelled Baucus, by the way. He's the ranking Senator and the chairman of Senate Finance and Claims.) on the delisting rider you are currently taking credit for. I must say, I can't remember hearing your name spoken of in a positive manner with all of the elected officials I dealt with. Same goes for your council, Mr. Benson (JD, Harvard). In fact, I found it astonishing, given your long and close relationship with this issue, that Senator Tester didn't invite you to be on the tele-press conference when he announced that the delisting rider passed Congress. He had rancher and outfitter Jack Rich, and myself.

Me, the same guy you've repeatedly called anti-hunter, and faker. Me. That's my work and thousands of other sportsmen whose work you are taking credit for. We don't appreciate what you are doing.

But hey, you got the BBC article. Good for you.

Mr. Peay, quit taking credit for work you did not do, or for things that you worked actively against.
 
You guys should all sit and continue to talk ##### on the internet...Thats going to fix things.....hahaha....hiding behind your cute little screen names, using fun words like THE DON...fun little conspiracy theories.....he's plotting this, hes plotting that.....
Conspiracy.jpg


Why don't you all take an hour break from the internet everyday and put your heads together and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!! Some of you have more posts than there are Mule Deer in the state....hahaha thanks for the entertainment

Carry on-

Travis Hobbs
Bear Lake, UT
 
hossblur, You are an interesting person. Full of a lot of something and you have lots to say but you really do not know what you are talking about in some things. First of all, Don and Orin work very much together and if you have gone to any of Hatches open houses you will see that he puts Don high. Very high. So does a lot of other senators and congressmen. Talk about filing a law suit by Don with the article? Now how long do you think that would take, and Don is a very busy person, Not time but lots of articles are written by people who do not use the correct truths. For instance a newsperson could quote Don said this or that and it could be something you said that Don said. For some reason that is the way that the system works. I know that and you know that.
About Don and AZSFW. First of all, read the names, two different organizations, They do not work together and AZSFW was not started by Don. But then you will continue to draw your own conclusions and of course you are always right. But on the AZSFW setup, your knowledge is totally wrong. If you say you know you are right about Don starting AZSFW, you are a liar.
As for the conservation tags, Don does not say what the tags will be, the DWR does, as for the tags offered at auction, the Manti does have a few tags auctioned off. The Pahavant, Monroe or the San Juan Also have tags auctioned off. Those are the ones that I always remember. Not paid attention to the Manti but I will look when I can. The DWR puts the tags out to get the most money that they can. Not Don.
I don't know who the leader is of DU. I do know that they were not able to get tags because of a mistake they made with what they had. RMEF has been all over the news so I am sure you know who their head guy is. The Full Curl was founded by Don Peay. WHAT did I say Don Peay. Now the attacks will start on them. I guess in your own words, you really do not know what is going on out there. But when it comes to going after Don you know everything. Will you are wrong. You misleed people with what you say. but,, HAVE A GREAT EVENING AND WEEKEND.
 
Was just sitting here watching the news with one eye on MM. Not sure how I missed the post by Ben Lamb. That's probably one of the best posts I've seen on this site. I don't have a clue who you are Mr. Lamb, but if we ever cross paths, I'd be honored to shake your hand and buy you a beer. Welcome to MonsterMuleys and congrats on an awesome first post...
 
Its to bad all you do nothing haters can't get together a group in your state or area and get a law passed like say Prop 5 in Utah, or even something small like the mule deer recovery act to focus on predators and even get your Governer to sign it in front of the cameras letting everyone know he supports predator control. Or maybe you can figure a way to get 850,000 acres of habitat work completed in the next ten years. I will bet there is not another state that will do anywhere near what Utah will do in the next 5 years. Without SFW we might get some done on state and trust lands. Oh wait school trust lands would be closed to us for hunting in Utah unless we happened to be the high bidder for that right. But by all means lets trash Don and SFW to no end because some tags were taken to the expo(still in a general draw for all comers) There are more nonresident tags available now than before the expo.
Pull your heads out we have created the forage for 250,000 more animals in this state and there are groups/agencies holding up that expansion. If you really care about the public at large getting more oppurtunity it is there, but some creative aproaches are going to be needed to keep all parties involved happy. SFW is going to get this done and when it is i'm sure some will ##### over this or that or the fact that it is taking to long. Or maybe you can come to the RACs and tell the division that there is not enough cow elk on the wasatch to have 4,000 cow tags this fall. I'm betting that I wont see any of you there. sorry if that looks as if I am willing to take tags from the average joe hunter in Utah but I would rather have an elk herd like we had not like we have now.

And to Don not sure why you even wasted your time here it was wasted on the 10 plus guys who have done nothing but cry about what others have done.
 
Ben Lamb! Best post on I've ever read on this site. Thanks for all the time & effort you've put in to keep things right.
 

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