SFW, you own the state, how about some help

hossblur

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
10,590
I have brought this up before and it goes sideways with all the "what ifs", and "my buddy this or that".
So lets be straight, and lets be honest.

POACHING is as a new record level for the second year in a row. We have a serious cancer that is eating at our passion. Don't start with accidents, or grey area. We have way too much killing INTENTIONALLY of our wildlife illegally.

POACHING SHOULD BE A FELONY. That bull that is shot illegally is STEALING from all of us

So, now that SFW owns the state. And because they have their inside man, THE DON, I am asking them to help us out. SFW, you want to show how much you care, make poaching a felony. Use your power to do something that 99% of us would get behind. Use this issue to unite the Utah sportsman behind a cause, similar to the way we united a years ago in the proposition battle.

Birdman, JMO, Muley73, you guys know the secret handshakes. You guys have the secret passwords. Is there a way you can pass this up the line?

We argue about tags, coyotes, cats, highways, etc destroying the deer populations. There is no argument on this one, POACHING is destroying populations.

POACHING should result in jail time, loss of firearms, and all the other losses that go with felonies.





"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-15 AT 07:55AM (MST)[p]What game law violations are "poaching". You better define the word to get real support. Your going to have to go through a dictionary size book of hair splitting before you get to the legal support you need.


"Poaching" isn't the greatest threat to the future of hunting and more importantly stable managed game herds. I agree it will become more and more of an issue.

By the way it is blatantly obvious you have no clue whatsoever how any law is created or works much less any game laws.
 
The greatest threat to the future of hunting is Global Warming. Just Ask Ovomit and ALGORE.
 
Increased poaching is a natural byproduct of the entire SFW game management philosophy. What else do you expect? And it will only get worse.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-15
>AT 07:55?AM (MST)
>
>What game law violations are "poaching".
> You better define the
>word to get real support.
> Your going to have
>to go through a dictionary
>size book of hair splitting
>before you get to the
>legal support you need.
>
>
>"Poaching" isn't the greatest threat to
>the future of hunting and
>more importantly stable managed game
>herds. I agree it
>will become more and more
>of an issue.
>
>By the way it is blatantly
>obvious you have no clue
>whatsoever how any law is
>created or works much less
>any game laws.


Okay, you've now made your stupid post of the day. Now go crawl back in your shop and glue some eyeballs in the mannequins!
 
Topgun,

Merry Christmas to you. I hope you get the elevated shoes you always wanted along with your junior G-man badge.
 
SFW has in a way poached more animals from Utah's Sportsman than anybody.

UDWR proved their own laws and rules dont matter?

Why should we follow any rules?
 
FYI
SFW helped get passed trophy fines for trophy animals.

$8,000 dollars 6 point elk
$8,000 dollars for trophy buck with spread of 24 inches
%30,000 bighorn sheep.
I don't know all the numbers, but they helped make it more than a slap on the wrist.

SFW also contributes to help stop poaching rewards.

I agree there is plenty of poaching. It still comes down to the judge, attorneys, and DWR on penalties, license suspension, fines, and plea bargains.

Most people who poach in Utah wont get a felony unless it is a trophy animals and repeat offenders.
 
Huntin50 is correct. I would love to see harsher poaching laws and actual enforcement. As far as seceret handshakes I guess I'm out of the loop on that. I have no problem supporting something like that and asking others I know to support it but being 100% honest I'm no more than common SFW member. I just happen to be vocal on the forums.

I hope some people see the outlandish remarks and comments on a post like this. hoss you hammer the hellll out of SFW and then turn and ask for help. That's 100% ok with me as I feel that is one of the reasons I support SFW, they have an actual voice and when I can get them to support things I want to see change its a great help. But as all can see the same crowd immediatly showed up to throw rocks and bash the SFW even when you're asking for help with something 100% legit. It's not about anything other than hate for SFW. I like posts like this because I hope the average Joe gets on here and sees them and sees that one group is fighting for the betterment of Utahs wildlife and one group is fighting out of hate which honestly brings nothing positive for our wildlife in the big picture.

Thanks for the post hoss. I'll ask what can be done.
 
So, the way to ask for help is to be condescending? I'll bet that's always worked.. NEVER.

I think it was more of a rant than it was a plea.

Zeke
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-15
>>AT 07:55?AM (MST)
>>
>>What game law violations are "poaching".
>> You better define the
>>word to get real support.
>> Your going to have
>>to go through a dictionary
>>size book of hair splitting
>>before you get to the
>>legal support you need.
>>
>>
>>"Poaching" isn't the greatest threat to
>>the future of hunting and
>>more importantly stable managed game
>>herds. I agree it
>>will become more and more
>>of an issue.
>>
>>By the way it is blatantly
>>obvious you have no clue
>>whatsoever how any law is
>>created or works much less
>>any game laws.
>
>
>Okay, you've now made your stupid
>post of the day.
>Now go crawl back in
>your shop and glue some
>eyeballs in the mannequins!

Actually Tri's statement is right on..
 
>SFW has in a way poached
>more animals from Utah's Sportsman
>than anybody.
>
>UDWR proved their own laws and
>rules dont matter?
>
>Why should we follow any rules?
>

Hard to argue with these facts.
THE DON is proving to be the Stalin of the hunting world, and some want to go to him for help in this matter?

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
As long as the good tags keep going to the folks with deep pockets, and we continue to exploit the animals we kill with a tape measure, giving no respect to the animal or the meat it provides (especially in the videos we post), poaching will continue to spread like cancer.

Technology and "hunter status" will be the ultimate downfall of the sport we all enjoy.
 
>Huntin50 is correct. I would
>love to see harsher poaching
>laws and actual enforcement.
>As far as seceret handshakes
>I guess I'm out of
>the loop on that.
>I have no problem supporting
>something like that and asking
>others I know to support
>it but being 100% honest
>I'm no more than common
>SFW member. I just
>happen to be vocal on
>the forums.
>
>I hope some people see the
>outlandish remarks and comments on
>a post like this.
>hoss you hammer the hellll
>out of SFW and then
>turn and ask for help.
> That's 100% ok with
>me as I feel that
>is one of the reasons
>I support SFW, they have
>an actual voice and when
>I can get them to
>support things I want to
>see change its a great
>help. But as all
>can see the same crowd
>immediatly showed up to throw
>rocks and bash the SFW
>even when you're asking for
>help with something 100% legit.
> It's not about anything
>other than hate for SFW.
> I like posts like
>this because I hope the
>average Joe gets on here
>and sees them and sees
>that one group is fighting
>for the betterment of Utahs
>wildlife and one group is
>fighting out of hate which
>honestly brings nothing positive for
>our wildlife in the big
>picture.
>
>Thanks for the post hoss. I'll
>ask what can be done.
>

Fact is your right, I hammer the hell out of them. They have earned every bit of it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. So yeah, I would love to see them spend some political capital on this one. Yeah, with all the good old boy judges and prosecutors, perhaps I would even support a minimum mandatory type law. Tri, I, well, not worth it, enjoy Texas.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>As long as the good tags
>keep going to the folks
>with deep pockets, and we
>continue to exploit the animals
>we kill with a tape
>measure, giving no respect to
>the animal or the meat
>it provides (especially in the
>videos we post), poaching will
>continue to spread like cancer.
>
>
>Technology and "hunter status" will be
>the ultimate downfall of the
>sport we all enjoy.

Well said BlooDTraCKeR!!!!!
 
>So, the way to ask for
>help is to be condescending?
>I'll bet that's always worked..
>NEVER.
>
>I think it was more of
>a rant than it was
>a plea.
>
>Zeke

Every damn deer laying out in a field with a .22 hole in it doesn't care whether its a plea or a rant. The "pros" out killing horns to sell know that the payday is worth the chance. Taking a poachers hunting priveledges is useless, they don't follow game laws in the first place. If $FW can leverage their influence when their over to Huberts house for New Years, it would be great. But frankly, I would support any groups pushing for expanded penalties. We can't stop highways, will never stop coyotes, and most likely won't cats or wolves either. We can nearly eliminate poachers.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Hoss,

Ok so tell me how "THE DON" controls the minds and integrity of the 68 RAC members and the 7 Utah Wildlife Board members? Something seems to be missing here. If so much money is unaccounted for, surely some of these higher ups must have some questions of their own? Poaching aside, from reading the SFW forums on MM, it would seem (from all of the negatives against the SFW and MDF) Utah is in big trouble with the people running the management of wildlife in your state.

I am not pro or con on the SFW or MDF, just a bit confused on the whole situation.
 
>Hoss,
>
>Ok so tell me how "THE
>DON" controls the minds and
>integrity of the 68 RAC
>members and the 7 Utah
>Wildlife Board members? Something seems
>to be missing here. If
>so much money is unaccounted
>for, surely some of these
>higher ups must have some
>questions of their own? Poaching
>aside, from reading the SFW
>forums on MM, it would
>seem (from all of the
>negatives against the SFW and
>MDF) Utah is in big
>trouble with the people running
>the management of wildlife in
>your state.
>
>I am not pro or con
>on the SFW or MDF,
>just a bit confused on
>the whole situation.

You SHOULD be confused if you've been reading all the opinions and half-truths on the interweb! It seems like lots of guys are trying to be "popular" and this site is a breeding ground for, well, you know.

Utah is a great place to hunt and fish so don't let all the "folks-in-the-know" scare you off. Come and have a great time in Utah and let all the lunatics rant about some mythical accounting problem.

God bless America and our freedom of speech! I still say if you want something from someone the path isn't through ranting, belittling and condescension.

Zeke
 
264,

I am guessing because part of the justification for the tags is to bring tourism tax dollars to the state. If you buy them online that is not accomplished.

I like a few things SFW has done. I like the deer transplant programs. I like option 2. I like that they are a local group. I like the coyote bounty program. I am not sure that RMEF would have had a hand in those things.

Just not sure why everything has to be so shady though or at least have that appearance. The expo tag deal sure smells bad. Lobbying for public land transfer and Closing stream access sure smell bad for the average Utah Sportsman.

Wasn't SFW famous for standing up on the front steps of the State capital in the 90's? I wouldn't be surprised to see another grass roots demonstration up there with Non SFW folks.
 
So in Utah You are poacher, I am a poacher, everyone is a poacher. If we make it tough on all of us how is that going to help? I vote we define a poacher as someone who causes measurable harm to wildlife, rather than someone who guts an animal.
 
Pretty Simple Fix madatory felony no pleaing down period.
20,000.00 dollar fine as well. People would think twice about pulling the trigger.
 
Now that the common hunter has lost all control of hunting in his own State, he sets out to further reduce access and/or create harsher punishments for killing the King's Deer?

This worked out well for England and is sure to be a hit with the powers that be. Australia was Colonized that way.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
A lot of slamming SFW & MDF.....

I would argue its just as much Utah DWR's fault for creating the
situation we are in with the conservation and expo permits..

It looks to me like SFW is becoming a byproduct of the DWR's
motives....JMHO


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
So lets get this straight. A large percentage of my state is under antler restrictions now. So when you kill a buck that is 12.75 inches wide instead of 13 you are now a felon with a twenty thousand dollar fine and mandatory jail time??????

Would you like to throw in anything else? Maybe caning his first son and "right of first night" with your daughter??????

Yeah lets throw logic right out the window with this one because a dead deer is that important.

Its time you realized YOUR children or grandchildren are probably going to be poachers by YOUR definition. The wildlife laws are getting more complex each year. You damn near have to have a law degree to keep track of all the federal and state regulations. I meet game wardens all the time who literally aren't sure what certain laws are any more. Do you realize Dan Ashe came out last week and said if you have ever had any wildlife violation here or abroad you will no longer be granted any sport hunted trophy permits for importation???? That's right. You get a ticket for a no plug in your gun when your 16 and you don't get to go trophy hunt anywhere outside of the US FOR LIFE! WHEN WILL YOU BE IN HIS CROSSHAIRS? Think about the power which you give your government before you blab stupid ideas.
 
Goofy-

Great comments. You are correct that much of the blame lies with the DWR. Unfortunately, sportsmen assume that the DWR is tending the store and looking out for the best insterests of wildlife and the general public when dealing with these groups. History has proven that is not always the case in our fine state. The DWR often allows the tail to wag the dog.

-Hawkeye-
 
Well obviously if the poaching isn't decreasing tri-state you have to up the pentalty. Just like in conservation you have to put a value on something to protect it, it's time to up the value on poaching of big game. Maybe if people weren't out making december trips for white sheds pushing sick deer around in deep snow and cold temps in their skinny jeans we wouldn't have winter range restrictions
 
"Well obviously if the poaching isn't decreasing tri-state you have to up the pentalty."


Actually you couldn't be further from the truth. I want you to stop for a minute and think about what you wrote. Take for instance gun laws and the laws related to violent crime committed with guns. I would hazard a guess that actual homicides are actually more frequent that the number of poached deer in Utah. I know it is the case in my state. So what's going on there? You have a crime with the threat of death for a penalty out pacing poaching.

The truth is a lot of things can be effecting that number and penalty may have nothing to do with it.
 
I actually couldn't agree with tristate more on this issue.

Be careful what you wish for boys, you just might get it.

I cannot believe the amount of people that want to grant the government as much power as they do.

Unreal to me. Just unreal. Study history. Study nazi Germany.

Look at how much power they'd been given. Think about what you're saying and further more, how will you define poacher that deserves your style of penalty?

Does anyone think that making animal cruelty a felony ends right there?

What happens when hunting gets deemed cruelty to animals? Think guys, think.
 
I cant stand poaching any more than any one else. I see the problem in relationship to how hunters are changing. When I was younger hunting was a way of life. It was a family activity. We used to enjoy being out there with each other. Not anymore. Call it what you will but any more it has become a huge competition. People will stop at nothing to get the big one. With the optics and technology we have today there isn't much that cant be seen and done by several people. Hunting forums and TV shows have made hunting much more than it should be, and some people cant control their behavior as well as others.

The courts need to increase penalties on unlawful activity just as much as we need to do a better job teaching our kids the value of good sportsmanship, respect for wildlife, and the outdoors. Something I see less and less every year.
 
Here we freaking go again. No, TRI, if you shoot a 12.75 in deer, and its undersized and YOU TURN YOURSELF IN(you know, SPORTSMANSHIP) then nothing changes.

You roll down to Ephraim and drop 6 does in a field in Dec., YOU BET YOUR AZZ a felony. If you can't see the difference than your trying to muddy the waters, I realize TRI that's what you do.

Its always funny to me how TRI can talk about actual price of wildlife and selling it to the highest bidder, but bring up turning poaching into a felony because of the price on a deer or elk, and suddenly he wants to play the other side.

Yes, accidents happen. Yes mistakes are made. But lets not play a game. Its Dec. There are ZERO rifle hunts going, SO, if you kill a deer with a gun, YOUR A POACHER. Pretty simple.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Hoss,
>
>Ok so tell me how "THE
>DON" controls the minds and
>integrity of the 68 RAC
>members and the 7 Utah
>Wildlife Board members? Something seems
>to be missing here. If
>so much money is unaccounted
>for, surely some of these
>higher ups must have some
>questions of their own? Poaching
>aside, from reading the SFW
>forums on MM, it would
>seem (from all of the
>negatives against the SFW and
>MDF) Utah is in big
>trouble with the people running
>the management of wildlife in
>your state.
>
>I am not pro or con
>on the SFW or MDF,
>just a bit confused on
>the whole situation.

4 Members of the WB came from $fw, and were appointed by the governor. Supposedly THE DON isn't involved with $FW, yet the bid comes up for the expo tags, and look who is sitting in the middle of the crowd. Utah IS in big trouble. We, wrongly, assumed that we hired and payed for the DWR to watch OUR interests. We thought that majority of hunters would have the sway. We were wrong. We were sold out. We were corrupted. We were lied to. We are continually lied to. The reality is, that the corruption goes clear to the top of the government, and the cancer is throughout government both statewide and locally. The system now is about representing commericial interests and deep pocketed non residents, and their special interest group, $FW.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Well hoss....I do believe that's the point he's making is, the wording in laws are the key.

Guarantee the wording in the laws would be so muddied up with garble, there would be no defining line.

I believe it's a recipe for disaster myself.

Who's going to define and who's going to draw the boundary for the felony? You had better consider that. Because if an activist lawyer or judge scripts it for you, then tristates example will damn sure be the line.
 
"Here we freaking go again. No, TRI, if you shoot a 12.75 in deer, and its undersized and YOU TURN YOURSELF IN(you know, SPORTSMANSHIP) then nothing changes."

What mythical little kid fairy land are you living in? When you turn yourself in they seize the deer and YOU GET CHARGED.

"Yes, accidents happen. Yes mistakes are made. But lets not play a game. Its Dec. There are ZERO rifle hunts going, SO, if you kill a deer with a gun, YOUR A POACHER. Pretty simple."

Actually in many states you can shoot deer out of season legally if you decide they are doing damage to your business. Not so cut and dry. Now you want to go give those hard working Americans that feed YOUR FAMILY a felony charge. Get over yourself. There are certain things more important than our hobbies.
 
tri-state I do agree with you on the gun crime and govt. part they are a bunch of leeches that will take a mile if you give them an inch. And maybe there is a better alternative to solve this poaching problem. And I don't think the DNR is completely handling this issue. But I do believe just like in law enforcement most officers are good people.
 
"But I do believe just like in law enforcement most officers are good people."


More than likely that is correct and I haven't ever stated otherwise.
 
>I actually couldn't agree with tristate
>more on this issue.
>
>Be careful what you wish for
>boys, you just might get
>it.
>
>I cannot believe the amount of
>people that want to grant
>the government as much power
>as they do.
>
>Unreal to me. Just unreal. Study
>history. Study nazi Germany.
>
>Look at how much power they'd
>been given. Think about what
>you're saying and further more,
>how will you define poacher
>that deserves your style of
>penalty?
>
>Does anyone think that making animal
>cruelty a felony ends right
>there?
>
>What happens when hunting gets deemed
>cruelty to animals? Think guys,
>think.

Read this again. It's worth understanding the concept.
Zeke
 
>>I actually couldn't agree with tristate
>>more on this issue.
>>
>>Be careful what you wish for
>>boys, you just might get
>>it.
>>
>>I cannot believe the amount of
>>people that want to grant
>>the government as much power
>>as they do.
>>
>>Unreal to me. Just unreal. Study
>>history. Study nazi Germany.
>>
>>Look at how much power they'd
>>been given. Think about what
>>you're saying and further more,
>>how will you define poacher
>>that deserves your style of
>>penalty?
>>
>>Does anyone think that making animal
>>cruelty a felony ends right
>>there?
>>
>>What happens when hunting gets deemed
>>cruelty to animals? Think guys,
>>think.
>
>Read this again. It's worth understanding
>the concept.
>Zeke

SOOOOOO, ole billy bob is free to cruise the back roads shooting everything he wants because some day hunting will be deemed animal cruelty?

Good ole Jim, if he feels like that bull should give up his horns in Jan., then golly gee we should hand slap him because a landowner feels like his hayfield is being damaged? The farmer who already HAS a law allowing for that?

When Rulon Jones goes out of his boundry, AFTER the end of his season and his client kills a bull moose, exactly how is letting him off saving me from the Humane Society, or saving an alphalfa field?

Again the muddying of the water, not surprisingly by TRI, who on one side makes his living stuffing animals, yet is wants to explain how its just a hobby.

There is only one way(well 2 but I don't support capital punishment for poachers) to stop it. Lock them up. Let good ole Billly Bob explain to his wife why they lost the house because he has illegal kills in the garage. Let Ole Jim spent some time in Gunnison breaking mustangs instead of shooting elk. Until we put an ACTUAL price on it, it will continue to increase. POACHERS DON'T FOLLOW GAME LAWS, so taking their hunting privledges is as useless as gun control is for terrorists or murderers.

Ya Tri, the reason I don't cheat on taxes is because I deem it not worth it. I don't steal candy because I remember what dads foot in my ass felt like. In short, if you want to stop crime, you make the penalty have teeth, otherwise you wink at it, and ask the field officer to fight with no bullets.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Hoss....

You keep claiming we're muddying the waters here.

What we're trying to explain to you is, the way laws get written, the way new laws become enacted because of wording in old laws are what is muddying the process.

What you describe as being worthy of "your" punishment with "teeth" could very likely end up punishing somebody for something like tristate stated as his example.

And for the record, I don't support, nor do I believe 99% would support you in your mission. And I sure as hell don't support confiscating somebody's house over it. And I actually don't support the irs taking somebody's house over unpaid taxes.

I don't get to do any of these things to the people who owe
Me and have screwed me out of money, nor would I want to.

No, I don't support your version of justice.

No, I don't support poaching.

Yes I support capital punishment for heinous crimes.

No I don't support giving the government as much power as you're happy to give them.

Yes, I do believe the definition of poaching would be made to be so broad, that it would do some serious damage to people that don't deserve hoss' version of justice.

And it's proven time and time again that harsher punishments don't deter.....just some food for thought on some things.
 
And as far as the animal cruelty example is concerned, you're missing the point.

Hoss, why is it that they listed the polar bear on the endangered species list?

The same thing with the African lion?

Is it because those animals are endangered here?

Or is it more logical to realize it's because since
People can't bring them back to the United States, they most likely won't pay to go hunt them anymore?

Just for the record, people can change, and I am not interested in giving somebody a felony and stripping them
Of ever being able to own a gun again. Just remember, what's being warned against here is, someday, it just might be you that the SS is loading on to the train to ship you to your new home.

In the next 5 years, there'll be changes to the mental health aspects. Who can and can't own guns will be attacked.

Think it's out of the question for having been prescribed anti depressants to keep you from owning a gun?

Going to AA?

Voluntary drug treatment?

Here's one, making controversial statements.

Yes, it all seems far fetched. But this is why I can't support you.

The threshold becomes too convoluted.
 
Hossblur,

I don't muddy the water. It was this muddy when I got to the party. I am just the guy telling you the crap you have been swimming in so long without ever noticing how brown it is.
 
Is that the best you have baker?

I haven't gotten crappy with anyone.

So if you're going to run your flapper, at least make it a good one. It's called debating a topic.

Give an opinion for how I'm wrong
 
>Is that the best you have
>baker?
>
>I haven't gotten crappy with anyone.
>
>
>So if you're going to run
>your flapper, at least make
>it a good one. It's
>called debating a topic.
>
>Give an opinion for how I'm
>wrong

know why the tax law book is 3 feet deep, because of this logic. You believe there is an exception at every turn so therefore we can't have any laws. I mean we can't have a speeding law, my speedometer is broke, right. WRONG.

I learned from my dad, then hunters safety, I am responsible for my bullet, from start to finish. Yes, we can word the law to say if you turn yourself in then..., but we all know what we are talking about. There is no grey area in the pictures UDWR puts out of deer left laying in a field, in the winter, with the horns cut off. Or the pile of 6 does in a field(state owned) with .22 holes in them.

Somehow you want to equate 6 million jews being exterminated with poaching? Perhaps you should head to Oregon. When you fear you DWR(and they are FAR from perfect) more than you hate poachers(someone is the a cancerous, plaque on ethical sportsman), it says a lot about you.

Not sure how the current gun debate is applicable either. Last I checked there was no constitutional right to poach.

As for TRI. I don't know you, but I am assuming that if someone brought you an untagged deer to stuff in May, you would be smart enough to know that it wasn't taken legally(don't start with deer farms), and I doubt highly you would risk your business otherwise. Therefore you know what illegal killed is.

So you know, ranchers are exempted already from poaching laws, so that what if is gone.

We can discuss "grey" all day, an perhaps I grew up somewhere different than you all, but in Utah, there is a poaching problem, both by professional poachers who run black market buisneses, and by "yocals", who just shoot crap for fun.

I know TRI tries to convince you the sky is red and water is yellow, and up is down, but for "99%", we know what a poacher is.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
The equating of Jewish people being slaughtered was a very large and yes drastic, example of people allowing overreach and excessive punishments.

You can try to slam me all you want about me not liking utahs DWR, which is inaccurate to say the least.

Constitutional right to bear arms is applicable here because the principles, and punishments, and facts still matter.

You're advocating a massive punishment for something that, yes it is a major problem, but your solution is very narrow minded thinking.

I can't peg a 18 year old kid who makes a major mistake, as a Felon.

Go ahead and tell us all about how great your dad was and how great your kids are, or are growing up to be.

But that doesn't change the simple facts that sometimes, good people, young people, make an enormous mistake. I've seen great kids do things that'll make your head spin.

Punish them with a lifetime ban?
Make the punishment so severe, that they lose any care at all that they otherwise might have had?

Punish them to the point that they're in jail, in the system, eating and living off the tax payer? A cycle that isn't likely to end?

Remove all inventive to be a good member of society....yes, because that'll teach them. I can assure you that once any of life's incentives are gone, they'll just move to something more serious.

Enjoy your utopia of creating lifetime criminals.

And I can assure you a lot of them are otherwise, good kids who make really stupid decisions.

I truly truly pity you or one of your kids, or you, or your wife,
Or anyone you know makes a colossal mistake.

But beyond anything else, you should really consider what happens when you grant government authority.

Your constitution becomes moot at that point hoss.

Slam away.....
 
I hope my posts do say a lot about me. I don't post a single thing on here that I am ashamed of or that I won't say to your face.

As for turning in people with untagged deer in May, what do I turn them in for? You don't even know what the law is there do you? WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU! You have no clue how current wildlife laws work and you want your daddy big government to come fix your problem for you.

The truth is you don't understand that there is a massive liability of the states which apply to our game laws. That's right. All those deer YOU claim to own, the state has to deal with the liability of YOUR ownership. AND THERE IS A LOT OF LIABILITY THERE! And then they have to balance that against the demands of the stupid masses who think the only way to solve problems is to abuse offenders.

Face it the reality is a guy that whacks a doe with a .22 out of season isn't as bad a person as the guy that punches your grandma for her change purse. THAT'S REALITY.
 
>The equating of Jewish people being
>slaughtered was a very large
>and yes drastic, example of
>people allowing overreach and excessive
>punishments.
>
>You can try to slam me
>all you want about me
>not liking utahs DWR, which
>is inaccurate to say the
>least.
>
>Constitutional right to bear arms is
>applicable here because the principles,
>and punishments, and facts still
>matter.
>
>You're advocating a massive punishment for
>something that, yes it is
>a major problem, but your
>solution is very narrow minded
>thinking.
>
>I can't peg a 18 year
>old kid who makes a
>major mistake, as a Felon.
>
>
>Go ahead and tell us all
>about how great your dad
>was and how great your
>kids are, or are growing
>up to be.
>
>But that doesn't change the simple
>facts that sometimes, good people,
>young people, make an enormous
>mistake. I've seen great kids
>do things that'll make your
>head spin.
>
>Punish them with a lifetime ban?
>
>Make the punishment so severe, that
>they lose any care at
>all that they otherwise might
>have had?
>
>Punish them to the point that
>they're in jail, in the
>system, eating and living off
>the tax payer? A cycle
>that isn't likely to end?
>
>
>Remove all inventive to be a
>good member of society....yes, because
>that'll teach them. I can
>assure you that once any
>of life's incentives are gone,
>they'll just move to something
>more serious.
>
>Enjoy your utopia of creating lifetime
>criminals.
>
>And I can assure you a
>lot of them are otherwise,
>good kids who make really
>stupid decisions.
>
>I truly truly pity you or
>one of your kids, or
>you, or your wife,
>Or anyone you know makes a
>colossal mistake.
>
>But beyond anything else, you should
>really consider what happens when
>you grant government authority.
>
>Your constitution becomes moot at that
>point hoss.
>
>Slam away.....

How do you mistakenly go out in a field, and mistakenly kill a deer, and mistakenly cut of the horns, and mistakenly do all that in the off season?

Like I said we can talk about the oops I shot a 3 point in a spike unit, but that guy would be turning himself in. But in my 42 years on this planet I have YET to see a bullet go where it wasn't aimed. You didn't make a mistake shooting a bunch of does with a spotlight, your a crimimal.

Yes, we lock up criminals every day. Yes they loose gun ownership rights. Yes, yes, yes. Its called a PUNISHMENT. Easy way to not have that problem, don't poach. Somehow 99.9% of us figured out how to NOT do that, can't help but wonder how you haven't? Skeleton in the closet?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>I hope my posts do say
>a lot about me.
>I don't post a single
>thing on here that I
>am ashamed of or that
>I won't say to your
>face.
>
>As for turning in people with
>untagged deer in May, what
>do I turn them in
>for? You don't even
>know what the law is
>there do you? WHAT
>DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU!
> You have no clue
>how current wildlife laws work
>and you want your daddy
>big government to come fix
>your problem for you.
>
>The truth is you don't understand
>that there is a massive
>liability of the states which
>apply to our game laws.
> That's right. All
>those deer YOU claim to
>own, the state has to
>deal with the liability of
>YOUR ownership. AND THERE
>IS A LOT OF LIABILITY
>THERE! And then they
>have to balance that against
>the demands of the stupid
>masses who think the only
>way to solve problems is
>to abuse offenders.
>
>Face it the reality is a
>guy that whacks a doe
>with a .22 out of
>season isn't as bad a
>person as the guy that
>punches your grandma for her
>change purse. THAT'S REALITY.
>

Really? Explain the difference to me. You consciously decide to break a law, you steal from someone? BTW, a lot of grannies hunt, and you stole from them also.

Tri, keep being you man. The guys that argue againtst this I need only point out that TRI agrees with them. That's an argument winner everytime

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Are you really so stupid you equate killing an animal illegally to elder abuse? You really don't know the difference????????


It has nothing to do with what you consciously know you are doing. If speeders know they speed does that mean we shoot jail them for 20 years???????? How old are you?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-16 AT 09:35AM (MST)[p]Tristate: "Face it the reality is a guy that whacks a doe with a .22 out of season isn't as bad a person as the guy that punches your grandma for her change purse. THAT'S REALITY."

That ranks right up there with some of the dumber statements that you've posted and sonny you're posted one big bunch of them! So a minimal crime in your mind should be overlooked is about what you appear to be saying. Just maybe that ahole that shoots the deer at night with a 22 runs out of bullets and money. He's probably the same one that will then go out and mug your granny to get money for more bullets! Tri let's just face REALITY. You have no problem with poachers for the most part from reading all of your retorts every time a poaching thread comes up. Your failure to state that you would at a minimum contact the appropriate authorities to look into the matter if someone brought an untagged deer in May to your shop says a great deal about you and your ethics or actually lack of same!
 
Hoss....

I have established that you're a very dense, and not a very smart man.

I never said that when somebody poaches, that the trajectory of the bullet was the mistake.

I said the act of it is a stupid mistake made by some
People.

Some good people make stupid decisions which equates to a stupid mistake.

Before you also run your know nothing, do nothing, accomplished nothing mouth about skeletons, you should probably have somewhat of an idea what you're talking about or what you're insinuating.

You know nothing about me, you don't know jack squat about who or what you're talking about, let alone on a public
Forum.
 
>Hoss....
>
>I have established that you're a
>very dense, and not a
>very smart man.
>
>I never said that when somebody
>poaches, that the trajectory of
>the bullet was the mistake.
>
>
>I said the act of it
>is a stupid mistake made
>by some
>People.
>
>Some good people make stupid decisions
>which equates to a stupid
>mistake.
>
>Before you also run your know
>nothing, do nothing, accomplished nothing
>mouth about skeletons, you should
>probably have somewhat of an
>idea what you're talking about
>or what you're insinuating.
>
>You know nothing about me, you
>don't know jack squat about
>who or what you're talking
>about, let alone on a
>public
>Forum.

Yup cuz somwone mistakenly jumps in the truck, mistakenly packs a gun, mistakenly loaded the gun, mistakenly drives out of town, mistakenly finds deer or whatever, mistakenly aims the gun/bow, mistakenly pulls the trigger, mistakenly walks over, mistakenly cuts off the horns, mistakenly drives off. That's a lot of mistakes that we should just pretend that could just mistakenly happen to anyone.

My guess, and yes I will admit I haven't talked to all of them, but over 90% of the fellas at point of the mtn. would say that what they did was a mistake. So what, they made a mistake so what they did just goes away? I mistakenly put on two different socks the other day, so to you that's the same as the mistake a embezzler, or drug dealer, or car thief made.

Adults know there is a difference, kids play "what if".

Or.... You agree with TRISTATE.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Nobody said overlook, Sally. But
>it doesn't deserve the same
>punishment and you know it.
>

Walk over and shoot your neighbors horse, there should be no difference in that and illegally shooting a deer.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I agree totally hossblur. Shooting your neighbors horse shouldn't be a felony and should be cleared up criminally with just a fine.
 

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