Sheep Gun?

littlebighorn · Jul 19, 2014

I just got back from the range and have a question for those of you who are serious sheep hunters.
I have never owned a custom rifle and have always had good hunting success with "standard weapons". (Remington, Ruger, Browning, etc.)
How accurate does your gun need to be to be a solid Sheep weapon?
How much do you take into account "packability"?

Obviously a light weight tack driver is the ultimate, but what are your limits?

cabuck · Jul 19, 2014

littlebighorn,

I am a F.F.L. dealer and a sheep hunter. I purchased a Bansner Sheephunter Extreme in 300wsm at a MDF banquet. A close friend had purchased one the prior year and I thought he was crazy. After using and seeing this gun in action, I decided to purchase one if there was one at another auction.

This rifle has been the finest hunting purchase I have ever done, better than high end optics. It is a lightweight tack driver that is extremely durable, I tend to be hard on weapons. It is not a sheep rifle but a great rifle. I have several safes full of rifles and when a hunt comes up I always end up with the Bansner in my hand. I now also own a Bansner in 257 Weatherby as well as 30/378 Weatherby.

I know there are other sheep rifles out there now but I have no experience with them. I have Swarovski 4x12 BT scopes on the 257 and 300wsm and a 6x18 BT on the 30/378.

I never thought I would like a lightweight rifle until I started mountain hunting. I have taken 5 sheep and 2 mountain goats in very steep, rugged country, where you only have 1 rifle on your hunt.

From that one rifle purchased, numerous friends have now purchased 10 other Bansner rifles. Seeing is believing.

falloutwest · Jul 19, 2014

Not quite sure why sheep hunting is the fly fishing of the hunting world where folks think the more expensive and custom the gear, the more successful you will be. I have two rams (Dessert and California) and a mountain goat on my wall, all shot dead with a Winchester model 70 Featherweight chambered in 270. It is light, drives tacks with 140 grain Accubonds, and you can pick one up at a sporting goods store near you..........

sheephunter · Jul 20, 2014

It depends on your budget. I used a Ruger Ultra Light in 270 for quite a while a 6 lb rifle and shot several sheep with it and a Leupold 3-9 Compact. Then I had Melvin Forbes build me a Model 20 Ultra Light Arms in 284 Win which is a short fat cartridge similar in ballistics to a 280 Remington. With a 6x Leupold Compact and 3 Shells it weights under 6 lb ready to go and will bug hole (several shots in the same hole). Mark Bansner builds a good rifle as well as Lex Webernek at Rifles Inc. Kevin Weaver of Weaver rifles also builds a good sheep rifle. So many rifles so little time.

SHEDYGAGA · Jul 20, 2014

That is HILARIOUS fallout west!

I think I just gave up being a sheep nut.
Its true, sheep guys are the fly fishermen of the hunting world.

I just can't see myself being associated with that.

Too bad, I really enjoy watching sheep.

What about goats? Can a guy chase those around without being a fancy pants, real world reject?
Please don't take my billy goats away!

deerslayer88 · Jul 20, 2014

Use a Winchester Mod 70 in 270 pre 64

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

falloutwest · Jul 20, 2014

Shedy, I don't think anyone has started a FNAWG organization just yet, so you will probably be safe in the goat world for just a bit! As far as I know, goats haven't yet developed the immortality to factory build rifles that those bighorns have.......

sheephunter · Jul 21, 2014

Ah a firearms sophisticate. It's all about fun and games girls. You can shoot em with a 30 30. He asked about sheep rifles.

Zeke · Jul 21, 2014

Wow, another "me vs them" thread. Classic "poor me" syndrome!

When did it become snobbish for a guy to care enough to worry about even the smallest detail....like his rifle?

I'd think that anyone who frequents MM would be all about bettering himself and helping others rather than being divisive!

Goats, sheep, moose, bear, elk, deer or coyotes..... I always worry about the rifle details!

Zeke

PS; LBH, I tried to call you back after my phone hung up on you while driving the "sisters".

mtnrunner260 · Jul 21, 2014

LBH,
What are your goals for said rifle?
Under 6 lbs?
Accuracy and energy to drop a desert at 200, 400, 800, a mile?
Do or can you handload?
What's your budget?

Let us know this info and we can narrow down your choices.

CPAjeff · Jul 21, 2014

Pm Sent.

Thunderclapper · Jul 21, 2014

It's easier and cheaper to loose a few pounds off your gut, then take the rifle you're most comfortable shooting.

littlebighorn · Jul 21, 2014

It's amazing how you can start a fight on this forum with a simple question!
I was primarily curious what most of you consider accurate enough for a sheep hunt MOA groups at a hundred? A little larger? Smaller?
A sheep hunt is pretty much a OIAL hunt for most of us, so accuracy seems even more critical.
The hunt will primarily be in serious terrain so the weapon needs to be light.
HOW Light?
That's all!

By the way TC , I am losing lbs off my gut too.

falloutwest · Jul 21, 2014

Don't think you started a fight.......there is just a lot of sensitive folk on MM. Don't take my comments the wrong way (as a few others already have). Fact of the matter is, a sheep gun should be just as accurate as an elk gun, or a deer gun, or an antelope gun...all those critters deserve the same amount of respect. Problem is, sheep tags are so rare we put them on a pedestal, which is fine, they are magnificent animals. I have had the luxury of killing two and being along when about a half dozen others have been taken....all with factory rifles that the hunters were comfortable and confident with. Don't over-think it. Use your favorite mid caliber rifle, unless you have a bunch of money burning a hole in your pocket. In the end it's the shooter that matters more than the rifle. And, next time you see Zeke, hug it out with him for me......he needs it.

BuzzH · Jul 22, 2014

Sheep rifle???

This might maybe work in a pinch...and wayyy cheaper than most of the customs. Just under 7lbs as pictured.

It does all right at 500...8 consecutive shots.

"They" even make a right handed model:

The 8th, 9th, and 10th shots down a new spout at 200 showed some promise.

Zeke · Jul 22, 2014

Buzz,
What would you call that little beauty if not custom? semi-custom?

I don't own a custom rifle yet most of mine are semi-custom, like Buzz's.

I like rifles, I shoot them a bunch, I like to tweek things and get the most out of them. """IF""" a factory rifle shoots to my likings then there's no reason to re-barrel it but if it doesn't, you can bet it will get a new tube and a few other treatments... because I'm worth it and the animals deserve it whether it's a coyote or sheep.

Now... where's that hug?
Zeke

Zeke · Jul 22, 2014

LBH,
Remember what Colonel Townsend Whelen said, "only accurate rifles are interesting"!

If it won't shoot around 1" at 100 yrds then it might need some help.

When a guy can keep his group inside a 6" bull at distance, he has determined his effective range. In other words, if your rifle shoots 2" groups at 100 yards then it's probably only effective to 300- yards. But if it shoots in the 5's then the RIFLE is capable of killing at over 1000.

If it wasn't for wind, mirage, spin drift and human error, animal movement etc we could make those kind of shots on big game all day long.... but we can't.

Damn few guy ever take the time to find THEIR maximum effective range under field conditions. It's all irrelevant if you shoot everything under 200 yds anyway.

OK, now I'm done.
Zeke

NVBighorn · Jul 22, 2014

I'm pretty sure LBH is just doing everything he can to make this hunt the special experience it should be. And rightly so. Sometimes the preparation for the hunt is just as much fun as the hunt itself if you do it right. So to me if he is thinking of a new rifle and can swing it more power to him. Heck my friend drew an Idaho rocky tag this year and I'm planning on going along on the DIY adventure. I'm having so much fun studying maps and Google Earth and readying gear and it isn't even my hunt. In fact I may not even get to go. There's a chance he may kill before I get there. But it's all part of a once in a lifetime experience with friends and family. And it's been a blast so far.

Now for my opinion on rifles. Like fallout I have two rams. They were both shot with a Winchester model 670 Ranger in 270 Win with a cheapo scope on it. Total package price of the rifle was about $275 in 1985 dollars. I carry the rifle I have that I shoot the best and am most confident in. If I had a tag and could swing a deal on a semi custom tack driving lightweight sheephunter special then I would do it. If not I would probably use one of my inexpensive guns with a better scope on it. The ram won't know the difference.

Best of luck again LBH.

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]

BPKHunter · Jul 22, 2014

I shoot a lot and have killed some deer and elk at ranges that would start a fight on here, but not break records by any means, My "accuracy for big game" philosophy has become awful simple.

For Sheep I would be sure to have good bullets and start with at least a 25-06. I prefer .284 bullets, but let's not start the Ford vs Chevy argument.

For accuracy, my judge is how regularly I can kill a water filled milk judge at those ranges I would be willing to shoot at that Sheep. I'd shoot at least a 100-200 rd's in the field unless you plan to keep ranges very moderate, say 300.

Shooting at 100 or even 200 from a bench is okay to work loads, but to see if the gun is "field accurate", shoot like you're in the field from ranges you think you would like to try. Even without the adrenaline of the hunt, wacking 4 or 5 jugs at 400-600 yards in a quick session, gets you more confident.

Now if you do this over a pack, and on a windy day, including while a little winded, you can better get a feel for how much more shaky that 5.5lb setup is, vs a standard 8lber. I think, all other things being equal, the lower the weight the shorter the range, with the only caveat being a lot of practice.

PS If you are considering ideal cartridges, I would start with a 270WSM, then look at .280, 280AI, 7mmRM, and top out with a good old 300Win Mag or 300WSM. I didn't throw in a 30-06 or .308, because I just don't like them.

llamapacker · Jul 22, 2014

Any sub 6 pound rifle that shoots less than MOA can probably qualify as a sheep rifle. Given the expense and rare opportunity most sheep hunts present, there is no reason to skimp on the rifle. If you don't go the custom or semi-custom route, than a Kimber Mountain Ascent is a fine choice, and still somewhat reasonably priced. Ditto for the HS Precision light rifle.

I wouldn't consider taking a rifle sheep hunting that didn't shoot a 5 shot group of an inch or less. It doesn't have to be much less, but over 1" groups just means you aren't really paying attention. While 5 shots makes it infinitely more difficult, achieving 1" groups with any well built higher end rifle should be easily achievable.

Trying to get to some mythical 1/2" accuracy isn't really helping much, either. And light weight just makes a rifle harder to shoot when your heart is beating. You must be able to shoot the rifle well, but shot are typically in the 200-400 yard range, and anything much beyond is out of most people's comfort zone. You won't kill a sheep at 500 yards with a rifle shooting 1/2" groups any more likely than with a rifle shooting 1" groups. At that range, it is more about holding accurately and proper fundamentals.

Sure, use an off the shelf rifle if you would like. I also shot a sheep with a 70 Featherweight, and love that rifle. But I also have some higher end guns, that are a little more purpose built for sheep hunting.
Bill

jims · Jul 22, 2014

Take a look at Sako Finnlight. I have one in 300 WSM that I've been pleased with. It's super light and doesn't kick any harder than my 270.

Thunderclapper · Jul 24, 2014

LBH, this is the gun I'm considering for my 2016 sheep hunt.

Actually it's really the only gun I ever considered. I harvested a Rocky with it in 2005 and the same gun shot my goat last year, 13 miles into the Frank Church wilderness. It shoots under an inch.

This year I purchased a lighter "sheep" gun, unfortunately it doesn't shoot as well and I have far less confidence in it.

I would rather sacrifice weight than accuracy. Loose 2-3 extra pounds off your gut and your net weight will be the same.

Deleted member 519 · Jul 25, 2014

6.5 Nosler has to be the perfect sheep round. I personally will use my old trusty Browning 300 win mag loaded with 190 grain Berger VLD's.

MaineFlatlander · Jul 25, 2014

I have been lucky enough to have two sheep tags. Took one with a bow and filled the other tag with a Mod 70 featherweight in 7mm-08. I have also used the same rifle to take two mountain goats. Nice shooting rifle in a nice caliber that I have confidence in. Good luck.