So much for honesty and transparency!

G

gleninaz

Long Time Member
Messages
3,600
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-14 AT 10:32AM (MST)[p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G790p0LcgbI


Well, now America knows what a lying bunch of idiots proegressives and Obama are. His legacy will be one of deceit and lies to our people. This is the MIT economics professor who helped to write the ACA.
 
Wow is all I can say.
Where are 440 and the rest f the Kool-Aid drinkers on this.





"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
Nemont- I clipped it from the Texas Fishing Forum in the Bunker and have nothing on the entire meeting. I really don't think a wider scenario should excuse the intent of the speaker though. He is pretty clear in calling voters a bunch of dumbasses for believing the pitch.
 
Yeah who wants more info as long as it makes the other side look bad. You should work for MSNBC.

Nemont
 
What office was this guy elected to? He is telling the truth about how it got passed, it was the politians who pushed it through with the CBO score and all the other shenanigans.

Do you want me to pull up the hundreds of threads on this site where you wing nuts called the American voters stupid for electing democrats, especially Obama? Or how many of you idiots who claim to be so pure rail agaisnt "low information voters"? You think the American electorate is stupid also so don't try to claim this guy was saying anything different then you.

Nemont
 
"NMPaul (6278 posts)
Nov-03-12, 07:29 PM (MST)
"Calling it early"
I hate to say it, but, I am convinced Obama will pull off a reelection.

To many people are enamored with the promises of Communism and Socialism in this country.

They do not want to call it what it is, because even most of the uneductated takers understand there is a negative connotation with the terms communism and Socialism."
 
NMPaul
7. "RE: Calling it early"



People that cant achieve them selves normally are envious, now they get to show it with a vote.
 
triggerman308
Nov-03-12, 11:12 PM (MST)



As much as it pains me, I almost hope Obama does win just to teach you dumb azz liberals to be careful what you ask for. And after Obama finishes screwing things up royally we won't have to worry about you liberal hacks or your saviors for a while!
 
DW,

I can find hundreds of such posts calling the American people stupid for how they vote. Most of the posts from avowed Tea Party members.

I was asking for the entire panel discussion to see the context under which he stated what Tea Party members actually believes, that the American voter is stupid.

I know that facts and truth don't matter to most of on here as long as it is anti Obama/Democrat/Liberal then who cares about facts.

You should be pi$$ed at the Republican party for not being able to defeat Obama twice and for not having enough seats in the House and Senate to stop the bill.

So which is it?

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-14 AT 04:33PM (MST)[p]Nemont I saw in another web forum where they discussed the full 51 minute interview. It stated that after a short time the plug was pulled and the entire discussion was pulled from YouTube, I believe it was YouTube, but not sure. One of the persons on the forum stated he had downloaded the 51 minute discussion and was planning to put it out on the web for non believers to hear the guys admission about ACA and how it was drawn up and important information withheld from the public.

RELH

P.S. did a little more checking. The speaker is Jonathan Gruber who is considered the architect of ACA. The video of his discussion was a YouTube advent that took place on Oct.17, 2013. Parts of the discussion was brought forward by a conservative group called "American Commitment". Maybe that will give you enough information to try and locate the entire discussion.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-14 AT 04:41PM (MST)[p]Actually, the entire 51 minutes is still on youtube. So I will watch it tonight and see what the context of his comments were.

I don't like the ACA, I don't like Obama. I think Harry Reid was terrible as Majority leader however I am a realist and this guy isn't lying about anything in regards to how the ACA got passed. The politicians lied and manipulated and that is how the game is played. Neither side is pure on this.

Ever see how Medicare Part D got passed during the Bush administration? They used the same exact tactics and nobody complained then.


Nemont
 
Gee! You mean our own government will lie to us because they know better what is good for us. Darn, who would ever believe that of them.

RELH
 
Not only will they lie to us, both sides lie to us and we believe them. What does that make us?

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-14 AT 04:48PM (MST)[p]>P.S. did a little more checking.
>The speaker is Jonathan Gruber
>who is considered the architect
>of ACA. The video of
>his discussion was a YouTube
>advent that took place on
>Oct.17, 2013. Parts of the
>discussion was brought forward by
>a conservative group called "American
>Commitment". Maybe that will give
>you enough information to try
>and locate the entire discussion.
>

He is also the Architect of RomneyCare in Mass. This wasn't a youtube event, it was a panel discussion for AHEC. The 24th Annual Health Economics Conference (AHEC)

http://ldi.upenn.edu/ahec2013/agenda

I found the entire discussion and said I will watch it tonight.

Nemont
 
What would you care about knowing more about laws that affect you? The Representative Republic form of government we have, it needs informed citizens but who wants to be more informed?

Way easier to whine and play the victim than to get informed and involved.

I will watch it and see, no requirement to pass along anything to those willful ignorant.

Nemont
 
When your gal Pelosi told me "we'd have to pass it to see what was in it" I knew it was a Trojan horse. People will tell u their bad intentions if u listen. I heard enough on this 1 long ago. But u keep learnin nemont. I suspect your the type of voter he was referring to.
 
Ok, Nemont, calm down. I think he is jerking your chain. Due to the profession you are in, you would be a better person to understand and interpret what he says into language a lay person could understand. I would like to hear your impression of what he said and the possible ramifications that ACA may hold for us down the line.
I'm not baiting you, I am serious.

RELH
 
Ya nemont how many more soldiers comin outta that horse? I don't know your proffession, have no doubt u have a better grasp on the 2700+ page document than I. (There's a red flag, 2700?) So tell us what u learn. I doubt he was being takein out of context.
 
Nemont- I just decided to put up a video link of the architect because I watched him discussing the sausage making. If you find the guy was taken out of context then post the video where he says "I was just kidding". You are a cranky old bastard.
 
Okay I watched it and the clip can stand alone. He said exactly what he meant. So flame away on him.

DW,

Of the two of two, I am the only one who has taken the time to read the law, all 2,700 pages, and has to deal with the fallout from it every day I go to work.

I understand that reading is difficult for some here but you should try it some day.

RELH,

From my vantage point the 2018 renewal in the marketplace will be when the rubber meets the road. Right now there is so much money swirling around the system that it won't be much more painful for most people than it is today. Your mileage may vary depending on Your personal situation. All of that will depend on the USSC ruling on the subsidies in the federal exchange. If they find the subsidy doesn't comply then all bets are off. That will cause huge upheavals in the market place.

Glen,

Stupid people make me grumpy

Nemont
 
DW

To end group health insurance coverage and end the the way the group contribution is tax preferred.

Nemont
 
And to end private health insurance and give government complete control of the health care system. Insurance, hospitals, doctors......this type of system is already in place in areas of the world a little further left of the left of this country. That will rob u of a portion of your business if u sell health insurance, and worse still rob us of the greatest Healthcare in the world.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-14 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]Actually it will lead to the collapse of the system once people realize their employers will no longer provide health insurance and that most people even with the subsidies will be paying more for less. I don't think we can ever put this genie back in the bottle so the next step will likely be a single payer system like medicare for all and health insurance will be a thing of the past. It was the original goal of Obama and progressives and they may just get it.

The best outcome now would be a SC ruling against subsidies in 36 states and a redirect to Congress to fix the system. They could do a medicaid expansion for the poor and maybe go back to a modified insurance system with cost drivers. Fire away Nemont.
 
After reading this thread, its pretty apparent who knows the ACA and who doesn't.

Also, if I wanted to know anything about the ACA, I'd not listen to rush Limbaugh, hannity, or faux news to get my information. Which is definitely the case with most that are posting on this board.

What I would do is get Nemont on the telephone to answer my questions. I've never seen anyone post on the ACA, that knows it better.

Thank you Nemont for taking the time to understand the ACA and trying to inform those that are long on mouth and short on ears...

You have more patience than I do.
 
So buzz u chimed into our friendly discussion, in your opinion, whats the intent of the law? Not what's in it, what's it's intention?
 
So Buzz, Nemont basically called me a Teabagging liar and then actually watched the entire video. Did you? Pretty obvious the guy is a zealot that had a single goal in mind and the ends justified the means. Why do you care about any form of private insurance?
 
Anytime you have to lie to the people to force something on them, it's wrong, and proves you have some other sinister agenda besides the welfare of the people. That goes all the way from health care to wolves.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
Nemont, thanks for your response on the ACA. I do not think they will be able to repeal the entire bill, but it sure does need a good fixing in many areas.

RELH
 
What big program didn't need any revisions ?

We tried nothing for years and it didn't work. somebody had to do something to get the can out of the kick zone.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
Nemont, am I missing something here?

Are you taking issue with my posts from 2 years ago? Odd that you would use my (2 year old) posts to make a point that I am not even discussing.
 
I was pointing out it is okay to call voters stupid if they vote for Obama but bad to say voters are stupid to pass Obama care. Kind of a double standard

Nothing with you personally. If voters were stupid 2 years ago for reelecting Obama why is everyone wild eyed at Gruber for stating so as well?

Nemont
 
As for myself, I have to agree with him and Nemont on most voters being stupid or foolish for electing Obama and putting faith into any program he made promises about.
Looking at it from a practical standpoint, Gruber was just as stupid for even opening his mouth and admitting what was done and taking away any doubt from even the stupid voters. I bet Obama was in a rage when Gruber open mouth and inserted foot just like old Joe Biden is good for.

RELH
 
>I was pointing out it is
>okay to call voters stupid
>if they vote for Obama
>but bad to say voters
>are stupid to pass Obama
>care. Kind of a
>double standard
>
>Nothing with you personally. If
>voters were stupid 2 years
>ago for reelecting Obama why
>is everyone wild eyed at
>Gruber for stating so as
>well?
>
>Nemont

I would agree with that. Voters are as dumbed down as I can ever remember.
I actually voted for a Democrat in this last election. I voted for the Dem Land Commisioner. A tree hugger, but, more likely to protect our state lands in NM than the Republican.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-14 AT 09:37AM (MST)[p]>And to end private health insurance
>and give government complete control
>of the health care system.
>Insurance, hospitals, doctors......this type of
>system is already in place
>in areas of the world
>a little further left of
>the left of this country.
>That will rob u of
>a portion of your business
>if u sell health insurance,
>and worse still rob us
>of the greatest Healthcare in
>the world.

Have any proof of that? You understand almost zero about health policy in this country and even less about the structure of Obamacare.

The law is highly flawed in several ways but that doesn't mean there is a vast conspiracy to ruin the country via health care.

I bet I will be just fine even with medicare for all. Care to guess how much money is made assisting medicare eligible to find coverage to fill the gaps? Again I hate have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. You want to debate facts? I will be you huckleberry, you want to live in lala land then have fun with the other wingnuts.

Do this find a country that wants to copy what America does when it comes to our health insurance and health care system. If imitation is the highest form of flattery why do other countries design their systems so much differently? Why does Germany provide nearly 100% access and coverage at a cost of about half of what we do?

Have you considered the possiblity that our system doesn't work very well for many, many people?

Also for those who support the employer provided insurance model, why doesn't you employer decide what auto, home, boat, umbrella, etc kind of insurance for you? Why just health insurance?

Nemont
 
Employers never wanted to be in the insurance business and that is why very few people will have any employer health plans in a couple of years. The reason our old model was broken is called lawyers and middlemen who suck the life out of healthcare. Do you really believe trial lawyers and insurance companies would support the progressive dream of medicare for all? Might be a decent market selling part C and D plans but nothing like the good old days.
 
Glen,

Going for the low hanging fruit of the uninformed voter? You should work for the Obama Administration.

Let me ask you a quick question, how much do insurance companies make off their contracts with medicare for everything from disease management to claims processing?

How much costs have trial lawyers truly added? I have some industry stats but I am curious what the average person believes as to how much of their premium is hgher due to lawsuits?

The profit margin off medicare plans and all the ancillary products that are sold is far higher than the group market in most cases.

These are the old days when it comes to medicare products. Anybody with medicare and a pulse is a potential client. How much money do you think is out there if they extended that to every American? I couldn't hire people fast enough to process the apps.

It would be HUGE market and everyone would be a prospect. Just tell me the rules and I can figure it out from there.

Again explain why the employers wouldn't allow their employees the freedom to do what is best for themselves and their situation? You know how to tell the current system is FUBAR? Some of the biggest and loudest opponents to the ACA were unions. Follow the money there and you can figure out why.

Nemont
 
Trial lawyers maybe 10% with all the additional liability costs for providers. Do you really think progressives will stand for additional insurance like parts C and D? I doubt that. They want free healthcare for all. Employers are all for their employees going on the ACA and we will learn just how excited they are when the mandate actually is implemented. You, of all people, know the cost to employers and the huge chunk of profit by eliminating all health coverage and paying the fines.
 
Why have progressives not altered the basic structure of Medicare since it was first written? It took a Republican to make a new market for part C and D plans.

Medicare has many holes in that supplemental insurance helps pay. Think how profitable it is when the bulk of the claim is paid by the taxpayer but the small stuff is covered by a private carrier.

Employers want to get out of the insurance business and the ACA gives them an outlet. We will see how they and the market place react. Much of depends on what the USSC rules regarding the subsidies in the Federal Marketplace.


Nemont

PS. Industry numbers has the premium difference at between .5% and 1% of the cost from trial lawyers.
 
How do you think Roberts will rule on subsidies? The libs are saying his legacy was imprinted by his ruling on the tax so he is trapped to rule in favor of subsidies but I don't think that is the case. Isn't the SC's job to rule on the law and how it is written? What happens if 36 states lose subsidies? Should be an interesting case.
 
I have no idea but it was interesting that enough Justices decided to take this case.

Should be interesting to watch.
 
If the ruling goes against the ACA then we find another way to fund it. imagine what will happen to the party who takes little Timmy's healthcare away .

Watch and see.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
I'd say somebody take that shovel away from gruber but he's already dug the hole and all u can do is admire his work! Lmmfao!
 

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