Sportsmans Bull.......

A chip shot like that I'm astonished he didn't make it sporting and use a muzzle loader.
Beautiful bull none the less.
 
Their scope looks like a Leupold VX6HD and a VX6HD is an illegal scope to hunt big game in Utah. Ignore this post if it isn’t a VX6HD.

From Leupold’s website: “with an in-scope electronic reticle level...”

From the UDWR Field regulations: “No electronics may be attached, except illuminated reticles.” The VX6HD has more electronics than just an illuminated reticle.
 
Last edited:
I watched this episode the other night and was very disappointed that @fstop would air that garbage. This whole episode is exactly what is wrong with hunting today and looks really bad for everyone.
The guides got lazy and didn't even try to close the distance. The "hunter" had no business shooting that far with an unfamiliar rifle on a piss poor rest. You could tell he wasn't qualified to shoot that far when he jerked the trigger.
One thing that should be looked at for guided hunts is that the hunter must be there when the game is spotted or it is illegal to pursue that animal until the next day. That would eliminate calling for a shooter.
 
Seven hundred yards is definitely a long shot. In my experience people hitting paper just isn’t the same as shooting at an animal.

I was hesitant when I realized that shots were going to be taken. Not only because I’m not comfortable shooting that far, but I didn’t know the hunter’s abilities. I started asking questions about the hunters ability with the gun. I was assured he had practiced with the gun and they were comfortable with the shot. But again, paper and making that shot with adrenaline flowing is entirely different. In the end, I wasn’t guiding, I was there to observe and report.

Hunting has definitely changed from what it was like when I was a kid. I remember my dad hunting with an open sight M1 Grand and boasting of a hundred yard shot. Now guys are killing animals at a thousand yards plus.
Did guides even exists in the seventies and eighties? I don’t recall. I do believe there is a place for guides. Hell I’ve been guiding on a CWMU for almost two decades. But, is it time we start regulating guides more and our ability to shoot animals at such long ranges? Much like the current discussion on long range muzzleloaders. I don’t know, That’s the hunting public’s call and each states DNR.
Some have argued that I shouldn’t have shown the long shots. Maybe you’re right? But it has started a discussion here, maybe there’s more hunters who feel the same and change is warranted.

In the end the hunter hit the bull all three shots. Would I have taken the shot or allowed a client to shoot that far? Not a chance. I once watched/allowed my adult son to shoot at a bull long distance after a lot of practice at the range and he just could not make the shot when he needed to. There’s just too many variables at long range.

I’m surprised no one caught the knucklehead reference?

Fstop.
 
You Got Caught fstop!

My Wife Said:

Did He Just Say Knucklehead?

Damn Straight He Did I Said!:D

Please Don't Show Us Anymore Of These 'CHIP Shots'!

Show Us What Long Rangers Are Really Capable Of!:D



fstop said:
Seven hundred yards is definitely a long shot. In my experience people hitting paper just isn’t the same as shooting at an animal.

I was hesitant when I realized that shots were going to be taken. Not only because I’m not comfortable shooting that far, but I didn’t know the hunter’s abilities. I started asking questions about the hunters ability with the gun. I was assured he had practiced with the gun and they were comfortable with the shot. But again, paper and making that shot with adrenaline flowing is entirely different. In the end, I wasn’t guiding, I was there to observe and report.

Hunting has definitely changed from what it was like when I was a kid. I remember my dad hunting with an open sight M1 Grand and boasting of a hundred yard shot. Now guys are killing animals at a thousand yards plus.
Did guides even exists in the seventies and eighties? I don’t recall. I do believe there is a place for guides. Hell I’ve been guiding on a CWMU for almost two decades. But, is it time we start regulating guides more and our ability to shoot animals at such long ranges? Much like the current discussion on long range muzzleloaders. I don’t know, That’s the hunting public’s call and each states DNR.
Some have argued that I shouldn’t have shown the long shots. Maybe you’re right? But it has started a discussion here, maybe there’s more hunters who feel the same and change is warranted.

In the end the hunter hit the bull all three shots. Would I have taken the shot or allowed a client to shoot that far? Not a chance. I once watched/allowed my adult son to shoot at a bull long distance after a lot of practice at the range and he just could not make the shot when he needed to. There’s just too many variables at long range.

I’m surprised no one caught the knucklehead reference?

Fstop.
Click to expand...
 
Oh, anyone paying attention caught the knucklehead comment! I liked it.

Honestly, the shot distance isn’t all that offensive. That gun is more than capable of killing an elk at 700 yards. The rest was not a bad rest. That’s on a tripod that locks the entire gun into place where it’s as steady, and maybe even more steady, than a bench rest.

Now if the hunter was capable or not is a question I can’t answer, but he did hit the bull each time (at least what was shown on the video) and the bull died.

We can all set our own ethics about long range hunting. It’s much more fun to get in close, no doubt. It’s more difficult and “sporting” to get in close. But I watched a video of a lucky hunter killing an awesome bull. I’m not too concerned about it on that point. But the “be on the horn and come down after we find it” stuff doesn’t look great. And I still have the question about multiple spotters and multiple guides on the kill. The legislature prohibited that practice in statute. I know outfitters are flaunting that rule all across the state, but it doesn’t make it okay.

There absolutely needs to be more regulations on guides on public land. This first step clearly hasn’t worked.
 
Last edited:
fstop said:
Seven hundred yards is definitely a long shot. In my experience people hitting paper just isn’t the same as shooting at an animal.

I was hesitant when I realized that shots were going to be taken. Not only because I’m not comfortable shooting that far, but I didn’t know the hunter’s abilities. I started asking questions about the hunters ability with the gun. I was assured he had practiced with the gun and they were comfortable with the shot. But again, paper and making that shot with adrenaline flowing is entirely different. In the end, I wasn’t guiding, I was there to observe and report.

Hunting has definitely changed from what it was like when I was a kid. I remember my dad hunting with an open sight M1 Grand and boasting of a hundred yard shot. Now guys are killing animals at a thousand yards plus.
Did guides even exists in the seventies and eighties? I don’t recall. I do believe there is a place for guides. Hell I’ve been guiding on a CWMU for almost two decades. But, is it time we start regulating guides more and our ability to shoot animals at such long ranges? Much like the current discussion on long range muzzleloaders. I don’t know, That’s the hunting public’s call and each states DNR.
Some have argued that I shouldn’t have shown the long shots. Maybe you’re right? But it has started a discussion here, maybe there’s more hunters who feel the same and change is warranted.

In the end the hunter hit the bull all three shots. Would I have taken the shot or allowed a client to shoot that far? Not a chance. I once watched/allowed my adult son to shoot at a bull long distance after a lot of practice at the range and he just could not make the shot when he needed to. There’s just too many variables at long range.

I’m surprised no one caught the knucklehead reference?

Fstop.
Click to expand...
I caught the knucklhead reference and laughed. I agree with lots of what you said on this post. Glad you shared it and glad you came on here to tell your side of the story! Good on you!

And yes, I AGREE 100% that the amount of guides in Utah should be cut down to a fraction of what there is now. ITs ridiculous!
 
fstop said:
Seven hundred yards is definitely a long shot. In my experience people hitting paper just isn’t the same as shooting at an animal.

I was hesitant when I realized that shots were going to be taken. Not only because I’m not comfortable shooting that far, but I didn’t know the hunter’s abilities. I started asking questions about the hunters ability with the gun. I was assured he had practiced with the gun and they were comfortable with the shot. But again, paper and making that shot with adrenaline flowing is entirely different. In the end, I wasn’t guiding, I was there to observe and report.

Hunting has definitely changed from what it was like when I was a kid. I remember my dad hunting with an open sight M1 Grand and boasting of a hundred yard shot. Now guys are killing animals at a thousand yards plus.
Did guides even exists in the seventies and eighties? I don’t recall. I do believe there is a place for guides. Hell I’ve been guiding on a CWMU for almost two decades. But, is it time we start regulating guides more and our ability to shoot animals at such long ranges? Much like the current discussion on long range muzzleloaders. I don’t know, That’s the hunting public’s call and each states DNR.
Some have argued that I shouldn’t have shown the long shots. Maybe you’re right? But it has started a discussion here, maybe there’s more hunters who feel the same and change is warranted.

In the end the hunter hit the bull all three shots. Would I have taken the shot or allowed a client to shoot that far? Not a chance. I once watched/allowed my adult son to shoot at a bull long distance after a lot of practice at the range and he just could not make the shot when he needed to. There’s just too many variables at long range.

I’m surprised no one caught the knucklehead reference?

Fstop.
Click to expand...
Well Adam why hide it. This is what hunting is these days. With guides and outfitters. People shooting big bulls with long range rifles that have, well at least practiced a little on paper. I have seen worse out there. This last weekend someone was shooting at a bull 800 yards away. They were hitting 40 yards low and kept shooting five times. Then the bull finally figured out the where shooting at him and he walked into the timber, Congrats to the sportsman hunter he got a hell of a bull.
 
I am all for the video Adam, My problem is why not just show him shooting 3 times. We dont need to see the bad shots he made. Just show him pull the trigger and have the voices of oh its hit. Shoot again... then just cut to when the bull is on the ground. Showing bad shots hit an elk at pretty good distances is not it in my opinion...
 
lundellhunting7 said:
I am all for the video Adam, My problem is why not just show him shooting 3 times. We dont need to see the bad shots he made. Just show him pull the trigger and have the voices of oh its hit. Shoot again... then just cut to when the bull is on the ground. Showing bad shots hit an elk at pretty good distances is not it in my opinion...
Click to expand...
Maybe the plan was to be able to bring this up at the technology committee meeting...
 
BIGJOHNT said:
Well Adam why hide it. This is what hunting is these days. With guides and outfitters. People shooting big bulls with long range rifles that have, well at least practiced a little on paper. I have seen worse out there. This last weekend someone was shooting at a bull 800 yards away. They were hitting 40 yards low and kept shooting five times. Then the bull finally figured out the where shooting at him and he walked into the timber, Congrats to the sportsman hunter he got a hell of a bull.
Click to expand...
Opening morning of a cow hunt a couple years ago, one of my kids had a tag and we knew where a herd was the night before. Showed up there in the morning, herd was in the same place, a mile away. We planned a stalk around the mountain so we could pop up a few hundred yards away. As we were stalking, I kept hearing a shot every 2-5 minutes and they seemed to be pretty far away. 1/2 hour later we popped up over the hill, got him a shot at less than 200 yards, cow down. My wife was back a mile away watching from the truck. I noticed another truck in the bottom of the draw, after a while they packed up and headed out. My wife said she talked to them on their way out. The guy's daughter, who my wife said looked to be no more than 12 years old, had been shooting at the herd from the bottom of the draw. I ranged where their truck was and it was over 1000 yards. They said when we popped over the hill, they stopped shooting. Seems like a great way to start your kids hunting.
 
ktg said:
Opening morning of a cow hunt a couple years ago, one of my kids had a tag and we knew where a herd was the night before. Showed up there in the morning, herd was in the same place, a mile away. We planned a stalk around the mountain so we could pop up a few hundred yards away. As we were stalking, I kept hearing a shot every 2-5 minutes and they seemed to be pretty far away. 1/2 hour later we popped up over the hill, got him a shot at less than 200 yards, cow down. My wife was back a mile away watching from the truck. I noticed another truck in the bottom of the draw, after a while they packed up and headed out. My wife said she talked to them on their way out. The guy's daughter, who my wife said looked to be no more than 12 years old, had been shooting at the herd from the bottom of the draw. I ranged where their truck was and it was over 1000 yards. They said when we popped over the hill, they stopped shooting. Seems like a great way to start your kids hunting.
Click to expand...
But scoped muzzleloaders are the issue…
 
Well Niller!

Your Perfect Chance To Start A Committee!


Vanilla said:
Oh, anyone paying attention caught the knucklehead comment! I liked it.

Honestly, the shot distance isn’t all that offensive. That gun is more than capable of killing an elk at 700 yards. The rest was not a bad rest. That’s on a tripod that locks the entire gun into place where it’s as steady, and maybe even more steady, than a bench rest.

Now if the hunter was capable or not is a question I can’t answer, but he did hit the bull each time (at least what was shown on the video) and the bull died.

We can all set our own ethics about long range hunting. It’s much more fun to get in close, no doubt. It’s more difficult and “sporting” to get in close. But I watched a video of a lucky hunter killing an awesome bull. I’m not too concerned about it on that point. But the “be on the horn and come down after we find it” stuff doesn’t look great. And I still have the question about multiple spotters and multiple guides on the kill. The legislature prohibited that practice in statute. I know outfitters are flaunting that rule all across the state, but it doesn’t make it okay.

There absolutely needs to be more regulations on guides on public land. This first step clearly hasn’t worked.
Click to expand...
 
Provoriver said:
Their scope looks like a Leupold VX6HD and a VX6HD is an illegal scope to hunt big game in Utah. Ignore this post if it isn’t a VX6HD.

From Leupold’s website: “with an in-scope electronic reticle level...”

From the UDWR Field regulations: “No electronics may be attached, except illuminated reticles.” The VX6HD has more electronics than just an illuminated reticle.
Click to expand...
UDWR doesn't care about choppers or shooting sheep out of your unit, they won't care about his scope.
 
I thought the video played like a bad infomercial for the outfitter.

I think guides saying its about friendships and not the money is comical, unless they actually do it for free.

I was bothered the tag holder wasn't hunting apparently. What a waste of a tag, imo

I didnt care for the tag holder using a gun that wasn't his and he had barely shot. I was further bothered that he shot that gun at over 700 yards.

And this hunt demonstrated exactly why no rifle elk hunts should be in the rut. You guys were in a prime unit with bulls rutting all over, and there was no calling or moving in or anything, just snipe it from half a mile away... again, a waste imo
 
fstop said:
Seven hundred yards is definitely a long shot. In my experience people hitting paper just isn’t the same as shooting at an animal.

I was hesitant when I realized that shots were going to be taken. Not only because I’m not comfortable shooting that far, but I didn’t know the hunter’s abilities. I started asking questions about the hunters ability with the gun. I was assured he had practiced with the gun and they were comfortable with the shot. But again, paper and making that shot with adrenaline flowing is entirely different. In the end, I wasn’t guiding, I was there to observe and report.

Hunting has definitely changed from what it was like when I was a kid. I remember my dad hunting with an open sight M1 Grand and boasting of a hundred yard shot. Now guys are killing animals at a thousand yards plus.
Did guides even exists in the seventies and eighties? I don’t recall. I do believe there is a place for guides. Hell I’ve been guiding on a CWMU for almost two decades. But, is it time we start regulating guides more and our ability to shoot animals at such long ranges? Much like the current discussion on long range muzzleloaders. I don’t know, That’s the hunting public’s call and each states DNR.
Some have argued that I shouldn’t have shown the long shots. Maybe you’re right? But it has started a discussion here, maybe there’s more hunters who feel the same and change is warranted.

In the end the hunter hit the bull all three shots. Would I have taken the shot or allowed a client to shoot that far? Not a chance. I once watched/allowed my adult son to shoot at a bull long distance after a lot of practice at the range and he just could not make the shot when he needed to. There’s just too many variables at long range.

I’m surprised no one caught the knucklehead reference?

Fstop.
Click to expand...
F-stop, what's the scoop on why the video was pulled down?
 

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