Stirring The Pot 8X vs 10X

[vichris]

Let me preface this with a little of my background.

I have 5 years experince as an optician (lab and dispensing)

I was a US navy Opticalman for 4 years went to tech schools in both Great Lakes Il and New london CT. Serviced thousands of pairs of binoculars, hundereds of periscopes, lots and lots of telescopes, numerous navigational instruments.

4 years experience servicing opthalmic intruments (eyedoctors equipments) microscopes, astonomical telescopes, and tons of binoculars.

2 years experience in laser optics

As a side note. When I was involved with astonomical telescopes and astronomical optics we had a little joke about newbies just getting into astronomy. The joke was about amateur astronomers obsession with power. Always the question "what power is this". People who spend their live working with optics know what I'm talking about. Power is way overrated.

So here's my question to you all........

WHY....WHY ....WHY.. do so many of you guys who are obviously pretty damn intelligent carry around 10X binoculars? My guess is that you have fallen prey to a marketing strategy.

I've got a slew of reasons most hunters (especially bow hunters) should be carrying 7X, 8X, 8.5X, or maybe even 9X binos.

I've already heard most of the reasons but most of them fall under that amateur astronomer joke.

I'll post the reasons lower power (8X)are better suited for 99.5% of hunting situations after I hear from you all.

 

[D13er]

I like 10x because I am in the 0.5 percentile.

JB

 

[vichris]

>I like 10x because I am
>in the 0.5 percentile.
>
>JB

LOL......I saw that one coming. Any other reasons? Are you a bow hunter?

 

[completesportsman]

I'm also one of the dumb asses that like 10x. I live in the east and bow hunt and agree that 8x is enough here. But out west in areas I have hunted like say MT, you can see for miles. I would NEVER be without my 10x42 el's.

Will stay tuned for the reasons why 8x are better....

 

[Frontier]

I hunt country where a person can see for miles and have hunted extensively with 8X in my younger years. With a good rest I'll take the 10X over the 8X any day in open country thank-you.

 

[rradams]

I've been carrying around a pair of 10x42 slc binos for several years now. I backpack hunt in Utah above timberline for mule deer. Everyone I consulted prior to my purchase recommended the 10x due to the areas I would be hunting. Longer distances need higher power, I guess.

However, I am in the process of picking up a pair of 8x32 or 8x30 binos to cut weight and will probably be leaving the 10x42's at home. Those 10x42's get real heavy after several miles and several thousand feet of altitude. Since I carry a spotting scope as well, I doubt I'll miss the extra 2x of power.

I also have problems holding the 10x steady when glassing, especially when I'm hiking and my heart rate and breathing are elevated. Hooked to my tripod they are fantastic, but free hand leaves much to be desired.

 

[vichris]

Hey bud,

I definately don't think your a dumb ass..... sorry if my post made you feel that way.

BTW some of my best freinds are......10X binocular owners ;-)

 

[Chef]

Interesting opinion.

I go in the field with 10x42 binos and consistently wish I had MORE power. I hunt both thick areas and wide open spaces. Now I have a pair of Duovids and love them. (except the weight; although lighter than two pair)

Sure it took a while to learn to steady the 10x but there are plenty of tips and tricks I have learned along the way that are now second nature that help stabilize the optics.

If I had a pair of 8x, I would give them away.

 

[completesportsman]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-08 AT 08:42PM (MST)[p]No didn't make me feel that way, just my lame attempt at adding some humor

Will still stay tuned for the theory on 8x.....

BTW, Nice looking bull you got there!

 

[Flagstaff]

I use 8X when archery hunting. But when rifle hunting out here in Arizona, you can see for miles. My 10X weren't quite enough often. When Coues deer hunting, I found 15X even better. My spotting scope is only used to judge animals.

I guess it comes down to distance - if you are looking a long way, use higher powers, but if archery hunting in thick stuff the 8X is more than enough - I often wish I had something with even less power.

 

[rradams]

Chef I wish you had a pair of 8x to give me. Especially if they were Leica's. The current front runner in my search of 8x binos are a pair of 8x32 Ultravids (non HD).

Since I have never hunted with 8x binos, my switch to lower power may end up being temporary. Weight is the main reason for my change; anything to lighten my load is being considered.

 

[peakfreak]

I've always been an 8x guy...better eye relief, light and field of view...my 8.5x42 EL's would be the last glass I would give up...not enough power you say? Put them on a tripod and you'll see a whole new world...I love my 15x56 and Televid 77 ,but the EL's are like an appendage.

 

[vichris]

>I've always been an 8x guy...better
>eye relief, light and field
>of view...my 8.5x42 EL's would
>be the last glass I
>would give up...not enough power
>you say? Put them
>on a tripod and you'll
>see a whole new world...I
>love my 15x56 and Televid
>77 ,but the EL's are
>like an appendage.

Agreed on those 8.5 x 42 EL's. It's probably one of the best bino's I've ever looked through. Wish I could afford a pair.

 

[vichris]

Ok....I purposely didn't mention anything in my original post about the size of the objective lens or exit pupil. I'm glad to see most of you understand the relationship between the two. Multiply the power into the size of the objective and you get the size of the exit pupil. 8 divided by 42 is 5.2....a 5.2 mm dot of light coming out of the eyepiece will more than cover your pupil even under poor light conditions, on an 8X42 bino . 10 divided by 42 is 4.2mm on a 10X42 bino. Give me the choice between an 8X25 with a 3.1 mm exit pupil and a 10X42 with a 4.2mm exit pupil and I'd be a fool to choose the 8X25.....of course I'd choose the 10X42....but are either of those choices ideal. When you couple a smaller exit pupil with magnified movement do you think you're going to get ideal resolution????? Now give me the choice between an 8X42 with a 5.2 mm exit pupil and a 10X42 with a 4.2 mm exit pupil I'll take that big dot of light every time. That bigger dot of light not only covers all of your pupil under almost any hunting condition but also allows for movement and misadjustment of interpupilary distance. You all ALWAYS have your binos set at the perfect interpupillary distance don't you????????

The US military has studied the human body as it relates to optics. The average maximum that the human pupil will open up to is 7mm. So designing an optic with an exit pupil of 7mm would meet ANY viewing condition thus the military standard 7 X 50. They also found that 97% of the test group could HANDHOLD a 7 X bino well enough to CORRECTLY count the lines on a 7X resolution chart.............but only 8% could CORRECTLY count the lines with a handheld 10X bino on a 10X resolution chart. All of the binos had at least a 5mm exit pupil. The test group were required to use both hands, could sit, stand, or kneel, steady themselves in any way against any part of their own body but were not allowed to lay prone or use any foreign object to help steady themselves or the bino. The test group were between the age of 18-27.


Bino's by design are handheld, so it only makes sense to use a binocular that gives you the best possible options while using them handheld. If most of your glassing is from a bluff overlooking a huge expands of land and you glass while sitting then by all means get a tripod and buy a 15X or use a spotting scope. But for that peice of glass that hangs around your neck that you use in MOST hunting conditions..... what's the best option? BTW I love those answers along the lines of "well I hunt out west were you can see for miles"?????? Well I live on earth and I can see for millions of miles with my naked eye completely through our atmosphere and see Mars. How many of you know that you can clearly see the rings of Saturn with only 20X. ..... the larger the exit pupil the better the resolution. By the way I live in New Mexico and can clearly see with as much detail as you can.... the same thing you're looking at with 10X because I use an optic that gives me excellent resolution and I CAN HOLD IT STILL ENOUGH to take advantage of that resolution.

Lets talk about hunting conditions. How many of you all are going to tell me you never use your bino with ONE hand. How many of you are going to tell me you can't "see" your heart beat or your breathing cycle when looking through your binos. How many of you are going to tell me you are as steady as a rock with a pack on your back and a bow or gun in one hand as you top a ridge and see movement on the next ridge over. How many of you are going to tell me you are as calm as a lamb when you see a tangled web of antlers on top of that buck or bull. Movement is your enemy when looking through any optic and the more power you try to handhold the more that movement is magnified.

Just some food for thought for those of you looking to buy a new pair of binos. And we haven't even touched on FOV, matched optics, coatings, or any brand names.

 

[rradams]

I cannot imagine carrying around a pair of 7x50 binos around my neck for hunting. The large exit pupil would be a waste on my older eyes, not to mention the weight around my neck. The only times of day my pupil would be anywhere near 5 mm would be at first and last light; times of day I am comfortably seated looking for the big one. I don't care how big the dot is, if my eyes are bouncing around in it, image quality is going to suffer.

Marketing not withstanding, I have found the 10x power to be very useful. Glassing while rested with heart rate and breathing under control or attached to a tripod they can be very effective. My biggest complaint with 10x is that in order to get a decent exit pupil you need a 40mm, or greater, objective lens with an accompanying weight of around 30 ounces.

I think the best economy for the hunter is a set of optics with an exit pupil nearly matching their own maximum dilation in a magnification that can be held steady during its intended use. For me this means 10x42 are not a good fit while hiking, but work well while stationary, especially seated. Under these latter conditions, 10x42 binos will outperform equivalent 8x42 binos most of the time.

 

[vichris]

RR,

I'm definately not advocating using a 7x50 any more than a 10x50.....but I would challenge you with the 10x42 vs 8x42.
At 500 yards 8x make an animal seem 62.5 yards away....10x makes them appear 50 yards away...the difference is negligable, but the resolution, twilight factor, FOV, eye relief, combined really make a good pair of 8x binos stand apart.

Swaro makes an 8.5x42 EL which is truly incredible. If $$ were no object thats what would be hanging around my neck.

 

[completesportsman]

A man in your profession should be able to afford a pair for both hands!

 

[cjboz]

I like my 10X Swarovskis because I bought them for 800 bucks. What percentile am I in?

 

[Frontier]

If I saw game at 500 yds and under I wouldn't need a pair of binoculars at all. I will concede that at earliest light and dusk the 8X42 I've got that I can see more, about 20 minutes total in the day. I just got back from hunting and my son, who has better eyes than me, used the 8X42's and I used my new 10X43 ed's. I had to continually give him my binoculars to see what I was seeing. I realize that may not be apples to apples, but it's pretty close. By alot of the logic you give I shouldn't be able to hardly see anything with my spotting scope, expecially as I increase the power?

 

[marley]

I own the 10X42 EL's, my friend has the 8X42 EL's. I got sick and tired of passing my binos to him this last fall for him to see the same amount of points on deer that I was seeing out to 700-800 yards away. I'll stick with the 10X42's so I don't have to bug my friends for their binos.

 

[vichris]

> If
>I saw game at 500
>yds and under I wouldn't
>need a pair of binoculars
>at all. I will concede
>that at earliest light and
>dusk the 8X42 I've got
>that I can see more,
>about 20 minutes total in
>the day. I just got
>back from hunting and my
>son, who has better eyes
>than me, used the 8X42's
>and I used my new
>10X43 ed's. I had to
>continually give him my binoculars
>to see what I was
>seeing. I realize that may
>not be apples to apples,
>but it's pretty close. By
>alot of the logic you
>give I shouldn't be able
>to hardly see anything with
>my spotting scope, expecially as
>I increase the power?

I carry a spotting scope too.

 

[rradams]

Never really thought of a 25% increase in image size as negligible.

With all the top shelf 8x or 10x binos I've looked thru, my eyes have never really seen much of a difference with regards to resolution. Maybe a slight or subtle improvement here or there, depending on the model and conditions. But a 25% increase in image, now that's something I notice every time.