Stirring The Pot 8X vs 10X

vichris

vichris

Active Member
Messages
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Let me preface this with a little of my background.
I have 5 years experince as an optician (lab and dispensing)

I was a US navy Opticalman for 4 years went to tech schools in both Great Lakes Il and New london CT. Serviced thousands of pairs of binoculars, hundereds of periscopes, lots and lots of telescopes, numerous navigational instruments.

4 years experience servicing opthalmic intruments (eyedoctors equipments) microscopes, astonomical telescopes, and tons of binoculars.

2 years experience in laser optics

As a side note. When I was involved with astonomical telescopes and astronomical optics we had a little joke about newbies just getting into astronomy. The joke was about amateur astronomers obsession with power. Always the question "what power is this". People who spend their live working with optics know what I'm talking about. Power is way overrated.

So here's my question to you all........

WHY....WHY ....WHY.. do so many of you guys who are obviously pretty damn intelligent carry around 10X binoculars? My guess is that you have fallen prey to a marketing strategy.

I've got a slew of reasons most hunters (especially bow hunters) should be carrying 7X, 8X, 8.5X, or maybe even 9X binos.

I've already heard most of the reasons but most of them fall under that amateur astronomer joke.

I'll post the reasons lower power (8X)are better suited for 99.5% of hunting situations after I hear from you all.
 
WOW, this could get really interesting!

I am excited to see all the answers and see the reasons why.

The reason that I use the 10x I guess, is to get a closer look. When I spend HOURS glassing, it sometimes can be looking at 500 yards away up to a couple MILES away. I figure that the 10x is going to let me see what I want, then if I need a real close look I break out the 20-60x Vortex Spotter and really get close!!!
 
I have and use both 8x and 10x. It seems like no matter which one I'm using, I wish I had the other pair. When I'm using my 10's I wish I had the 8's because they hold steadier and have a little wider field of view,also my 10x is heavier. When I'm using my 8's, I often find myself straining to make out a little more antler detail and wishing I had the 10's. I used to even use 7's. If I only had one pair it would be the 10's because I can always find something to brace against to hold steadier.

Power has nothing to do with bowhunting. Just because a bowhunter has a more limited range in shooting does not mean he limits himself in spotting and stalking. On the contrary a bowhunter needs to pick apart the terrain even more to find the best path of approach when planning a stalk.

Besides it's quality, clarity and light gathering that should be the first focus.
 
I like to keep my exit pupil close to 5mm for light gathering. thats why I have the 8.5x42 Swaro EL's and not the 10x...

I also believe that anything over 8x you should have on a tripod to do some serious glassing or you will have a lot of eyestrain from your hands not holding them steady enough...

horsepoop.gif
 
I can't claim quite the optical resume you have but I have been wearing glasses or contacts for 40+ years and have spent a lot of time with eye doctors and behind binos. I've had 8s and 10s. For me, it's simple.....I can see better with the 10s. I have 10x50 Swarovskis and see very well....they transmit a great deal of light and I'm very pleased...have been through a couple of pairs of them. I also have 8 by and 10 by Nikons....identical except for the magnification....I prefer the 10s in that instance, as well.

When holding them steady is an issue, there is always a rock or tree close enough.

Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Historically, i've passed up a lot of legal game animals before i finally found what that pushed my buttons. Sometimes a animal might be a good ways away and i like the higher power to be able to see in a little better detail, judge if the animal has what it takes to warrant getting to take a ride home with me.

I'll take better glass over higher magnification any day but price and quality being the same, give me the 10X!

Joey
 
I LIKE A SCOPE WITH AT LEAST 60X!!!

BINO'S NEED TO BE AT LEAST 50X!!!

THIS WAY I CAN MAGNIFY THE PISSCUTTERS I SEE & IT MAKES ME FEEL A LITTLE BETTER!!!



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
I have a pair of Swaro 15x56 bino's and a pair of Swaro 10x42's and if I could afford it I'd have a pair of 8x42's. Like mentioned above 8 power bino's will not show the shake like 10's and 15's plus the light transmission will be better because of the ratio of the lenses. But for an all around binocular I like the 10 power for the extra bit of power that the 8's do not have. I have a tripod attachment for my 10's and when I'm finished scanning the area while holding them I can always mount them up on the tripod and make them rock on steady. I can suffer through the small amount of light transmission loss that there is between the 8's and 10's. Especially when its barely detectable. I'm anxious to hear all of the other reasons why we should be using 8 power because I am truley only a 5 year veteran to optics and that would honestly make me a newbie. So I respectfully await for the answers. fatrooster.
 
Since you asked I will tell you why.

I was on an Oryx hunt this weekend for my daughter. I carry Leica 10x Ultravids and that was not enough so I started carrying around my Swarovski 15x.

I am looking 1000 yards out to over a mile and more and covering a lot of ground.

8x would have been ridiculous on this hunt. Most of my hunts are in the west and the country is big. You are looking way out there.

8x would be fine looking out 600 yards or less.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 
>Since you asked I will tell
>you why.
>
>I was on an Oryx hunt
>this weekend for my daughter.
> I carry Leica 10x
>Ultravids and that was not
>enough so I started carrying
>around my Swarovski 15x.
>
>I am looking 1000 yards out
>to over a mile and
>more and covering a lot
>of ground.
>
>8x would have been ridiculous on
>this hunt. Most of
>my hunts are in the
>west and the country is
>big. You are looking
>way out there.
>8x would be fine looking out
>600 yards or less.
>
>Just my opinion, I could be
>wrong.


DITTO

I went from the 10x42 Ultravids to 12x50. I ain't lookin back.
 
I love my 10x. I get up early and hike up to peak in the dark and glass until i find something. I'm usually glassing from half a mile to well over a mile. The area i hunt is big steep open canyons. That is how i like to hunt muleys and it has worked out great. The only time i like to use my 8x is when i am shed hunting.
 
10 by 42 out west you can see pretty far. 15 by 56 are a little big to hike with. If your hunting in the east ? Maybe you don't need them. Then you use you spotting scope to size them up a little better. 20 by 60s work good .
 
I reckon it's because i got a smokin deal on my 10X42 leicas, dont have a whole lotta cash so I always buy second hand.

At 800 yards or less I can out glass my friends with 15X56

I have no regret on them cause they are strong enough for a tripod but yet good enough for 50-300 yards when i carry them on me walkin around.

I still do good on "afarsee"

But I guess I'm still intrested to see why the 8X are better????

Good ole boy
 
30 plus years of hunting experience is why!
have you eyes ever seen bull elk fighting a 1/2 mile away though a pair of swarovski slc 10x50's or a nice muley buck 500 yrds away through the same glass?
8x, 10x, 20x-60x I own and hunt with them all!
this whole topic seems silly and really doesn't make sense just because I have no experience with a butt scope or what ever you used!... you come across being expert on optics ...even hunting you said notta about brightness, sharpness, field of view, light transmission, focal plane, color spectrum and light gathering!
rm
 
I have a pair of 12x50 and at first thought I had bought too high of magnification due to the shakiness. After a short while though, I have just learned to be more stable. Most of the times I sit to glass and stabllize the glass by resting my elbows on my knees. Even though now when I have been hiking and breathing hard I can typically scan pretty thoroughly without shaking much and compromising view. Basically what I am trying to say is that they work great and are more stable than I first expected. I can glass with these for long periods of time without eye strain as some have suggested, but they are a good quality glass as well.
 
Ok....I purposely didn't mention anything in my original post about the size of the objective lens or exit pupil. I'm glad to see most of you understand the relationship between the two. Multiply the power into the size of the objective and you get the size of the exit pupil. 8 divided by 42 is 5.2....a 5.2 mm dot of light coming out of the eyepiece will more than cover your pupil even under poor light conditions, on an 8X42 bino . 10 divided by 42 is 4.2mm on a 10X42 bino. Give me the choice between an 8X25 with a 3.1 mm exit pupil and a 10X42 with a 4.2mm exit pupil and I'd be a fool to choose the 8X25.....of course I'd choose the 10X42....but are either of those choices ideal? When you couple a smaller exit pupil with magnified movement do you think you're going to get ideal resolution????? Now give me the choice between an 8X42 with a 5.2 mm exit pupil and a 10X42 with a 4.2 mm exit pupil I'll take that big dot of light every time. That bigger dot of light not only covers all of your pupil under almost any hunting condition but also allows for movement and misadjustment of interpupilary distance. You all ALWAYS have your binos set at the perfect interpupillary distance don't you????????

The US military has studied the human body as it relates to optics. The average maximum that the human pupil will open up to is 7mm. So designing an optic with an exit pupil of 7mm would meet ANY viewing condition thus the military standard 7 X 50. They also found that 97% of the test group could HANDHOLD a 7 X bino well enough to CORRECTLY count the lines on a 7X resolution chart.............but only 8% could CORRECTLY count the lines with a handheld 10X bino on a 10X resolution chart. All of the binos had at least a 5mm exit pupil. The test group were required to use both hands, could sit, stand, or kneel, steady themselves in any way against any part of their own body but were not allowed to lay prone or use any foreign object to help steady themselves or the bino. The test group were between the age of 18-27.

Bino's by design are handheld, so it only makes sense to use a binocular that gives you the best possible options while using them handheld. If most of your glassing is from a bluff overlooking a huge expands of land and you glass while sitting then by all means get a tripod and buy a 15X or use a spotting scope. But for that peice of glass that hangs around your neck that you use in MOST hunting conditions..... what's the best option? BTW I love those answers along the lines of "well I hunt out west were you can see for miles"?????? Well I live on earth and I can see for millions of miles with my naked eye completely through our atmosphere and see Mars. How many of you know that you can clearly see the rings of Saturn with only 20X. ..... (the larger the exit pupil the better the resolution.) By the way I live in New Mexico and can clearly see with as much detail as you can.... the same thing you're looking at with 10X...... because I use an optic that gives me excellent resolution and I CAN HOLD IT STILL ENOUGH to take advantage of that resolution.

Lets talk about hunting conditions. How many of you all are going to tell me you never use your bino with ONE hand. How many of you are going to tell me you can't "see" your heart beat or your breathing cycle when looking through your binos. How many of you are going to tell me you are as steady as a rock with a pack on your back and a bow or gun in one hand as you top a ridge and see movement on the next ridge over. How many of you are going to tell me you are as calm as a lamb when you see a tangled web of antlers on top of that buck or bull. Movement is your enemy when looking through any optic and the more power you try to handhold the more that movement is magnified. You see the question is NOT will the 10X or 12X bino produce good resolution. With most decent optics made today the answer is almost certainly YES they will produce good resolution. The question IS can you hold them steady enough to take advantage of that resolution?

Just some food for thought for those of you looking to buy a new pair of binos. And see.... we haven't even touched on FOV, matched optics, coatings, or any brand names.

As a side note I'm addressing the vast majority of hunters who can only afford one pair of optics and since most carry either 8 or 10 X

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well I'll take the 10x over the 8x any day. for me the one hand thing is no big deal. if I'm looking far away I just get a rest. so on that note I will never buy a pair of 8xs.
 
You said quote;
" because I use an optic that gives me excellent resolution and I CAN HOLD IT STILL ENOUGH to take advantage of that resolution."

So you're holding it more still than a 10X? Bzzzz, wrong!!

I don't "see" your point. maybe i'm not holding it still enough. lol

If you pointed the difference between 8 and 12X, i'd quickly agree. 10X. nope, been using them too much for too long, plenty steady.

You do realize that this topic has been covered over and over in every hunting mag? I see nothing, besides a couple big words, really new here.

You and i seem to be about in the same age group. I've been using bino's since i was old enough to pull up my own pants. 10X has never been too shakey or even close. I've tried 15's, i can use them without a tri-pod but rather not. For me, my 10x42's work fine, thank you very much! You like 8X glass, go for it, have at it, you da man!

Joey
 
You said
"Lets talk about hunting conditions. How many of you all are going to tell me you never use your bino with ONE hand. How many of you are going to tell me you can't "see" your heart beat or your breathing cycle when looking through your binos. How many of you are going to tell me you are as steady as a rock with a pack on your back and a bow or gun in one hand as you top a ridge and see movement on the next ridge over. How many of you are going to tell me you are as calm as a lamb when you see a tangled web of antlers on top of that buck or bull. Movement is your enemy when looking through any optic and the more power you try to handhold the more that movement is magnified. You see the question is NOT will the 10X or 12X bino produce good resolution. With most decent optics made today the answer is almost certainly YES they will produce good resolution. The question IS can you hold them steady enough to take advantage of that resolution?"

YES. But thanks for the info techie. I will stick with my 12x50 oversized POS's cause they work and I can hold them still enough. I guess it pays a little to stay in shape and train yourself to use your gear properly.

Quick question though what do the pics have to do with the optics lecture?

That being said thanks for an education on optics. It really is good to know. Won't change what I use, but good to know.
 
...Opticalman... optician... astronomical... objective lense... exit pupil... handhold... rings of Saturn... bear in thick cover... elk in thick cover... oryx in the dark... blah, blablah, blablahfrickin blah...

You use what ever you want. I will use what I want. I love my tens and will be glad to sit beside you any day and glass. Sometimes you will see the animal first, sometimes I will. In the end I think I'll do better. Glassing success has less to do with power and more to do with ability. You don't get ability by owning one power or another or one brand or another. You get it through experience. And most of the guys I know with real experience and real success are looking through 10X binocs. Good ones. But I know some guys who do very well with cheaper binocs of a variety of power. Some people know how to look better than others. Sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn.

So I guess my question is Why are you asking? How much do you want for your 8s?
 
I own the 10X42 EL's, my friend has the 8X42 EL's. I got sick and tired of passing my binos to him this last fall for him to see the same amount of points on deer that I was seeing out to 700-800 yards away. I'll stick with the 10X42's so I don't have to bug my friends for their binos.
 
In California a buck must be a forked-horn or better to be legal. Sometimes you need the extra power to see that 1/2" fork on one side. Love my 10X40 Zeiss.:)

Eel
 
I'd have to agree with Deadibob and Sage. I carry Swaro 10x42 because for me they are the best all around bino when considering the terrain I hunt, weight and quality of the glass, and magnification. I also carry a spotter most of time. I bowhunt, but when you need to count tines or size up animals, you need good glass with the appropriate magnification that conditions require.
-Raptor
 
I think if you never took your bino's from off your neck 8x would be the ticket, however I love using my bino's on a tripod hence the 10X.

In addition, some of the most successful guides I know are going to the Kowa 32X on a tripod. They are contibuting much of their success in finding animals to the high power bino's.

Mike
 

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