Summary of the Virtual Meeting Over Winter Issues W/Gordon

elks96

elks96

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SO I sat in and watched the meeting as did several others. There was some decent information shared and I think they are hearing that we need to have restrictive actions like none other.

All the panelist agreed that this is a catastrophic winter and we are seeing it across a larger section of the state. I got the feeling that when final cuts come down and numbers are looked at it will look different than what even the 3/15 cuts were.

One thing mentioned was need for range quality, I made comments specifically to the horse issues around Baggs the broken HMA fencing, the horses outside the HMA etc. I also made comments on how the range looked in pictures shared by Hicks. There was virtually nothing for the animals to browse in the pictures and a large amount of the junipers were picked clean.


I pointed out that Region W is only seeing a 13% reduction in NR quota despite a over 40% adult deer mortality. We need further cuts to that quota.

Also mentioned that the first thing to be cut should be NR quotas.

A few comments made about range quality, but a lot of people commented on ending the General Tags for deer. Luckily the Director made it clear that is not something that can be done over night.

Just FYI. I think they are hearing the consensus for drastic measures.

Hopefully we can start to really push for large scale habitat projects and things that will really make a difference...
 
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Sierra said:
They need to implement quotas for the residents. Cutting NR tags is only going to do so much. If they eliminate NR tags, they should charge all Residents the NR fees. The department is going to need money to help rebuild the herds.
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HAHA. They could easily cut 500 tags from the NR pool I am speaking of, given the data that would be the equivalent of cutting the Resident numbers by over 50%.... Why should we force the residents to limit when we can put it all on the NR?

Luckily the Game and Fish has a good rainy day fund and already the Governor is committed to back filling the budget if necessary.

Its ok, we will already be getting a nice bump from the new fee increases for the special tags... 1 more super tag might make up the difference as well...
 
Sierra said:
Just shows that some of you greedy residents don’t really want to help the herd.
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We are all about protecting the resource. The first step and easiest step would be limiting NR tags. It is the lowest hanging fruit. How does decreasing the NR general Quota hurt the herd?
 
I listened to the zoom meeting. Some residents speaking did ask for limited quotas for residents as well, and eliminating the general season. One I remember was specifically talking about area 82.
 
Sierra said:
Ya, okay. You’re all about getting yours and screwing others. It’s obvious based on your comments during the meeting. I applaud those residents that suggested quotas for residents and eliminating general seasons.
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Haha. Which comment was about myself. Could you please quote it? I would love to see your evidence…

And yes, resident should come first…. The last people to sacrifice opportunity should be residents. The first people should be nonresidents. Pretty simple concept….
 
Sierra said:
Ya, okay. You’re all about getting yours and screwing others. It’s obvious based on your comments during the meeting. I applaud those residents that suggested quotas for residents and eliminating general seasons.
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Amazing the ignorance of some people. If general areas went LQ there would be a drastic decrease in NR tags. They would eliminate region tags and no way would they come close to the numbers given to nr as region tags.
 
General deer areas are not in trouble all over the state, no need to cancel them all. Quotas in some areas, yes might be a good idea but how to implement that, oh yeah limit NRs region tags first and easiest.
Hoping residents that care will be willing to either forego hunting in hard hit areas or eat their tags.
 
Sierra said:
Ya, okay. You’re all about getting yours and screwing others. It’s obvious based on your comments during the meeting. I applaud those residents that suggested quotas for residents and eliminating general seasons.
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?
 
jm77 said:
Amazing the ignorance of some people. If general areas went LQ there would be a drastic decrease in NR tags. They would eliminate region tags and no way would they come close to the numbers given to nr as region tags.
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NR Tags should be cut, but so should resident tags. Nothing worse than being called ignorant by an uneducated man from Wyoming.
 
Sierra said:
I’m not against cutting NR tags. My point is that some of you greedy bastards just want to cut NR tags and are unwilling to make your own sacrifices.
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I've drawn a chit ton of tags I've hurled in the trash the very day I pulled them out of the mailbox. Fund the department and save does from being killed which increases herds.

I'm sacrificing plenty.
 
BuzzH said:
I've drawn a chit ton of tags I've hurled in the trash the very day I pulled them out of the mailbox. Fund the department and save does from being killed which increases herds.

I'm sacrificing plenty.
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You forgot to mention how you‘re the best hunter in the Western US and how you have killed 100s of elk, moose and sheep. We all know the greatness of Buzz. While you may have a couple of groupies on MM, the vast majority of us think you‘re just a tool.
 
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jm77 said:
Amazing the ignorance of some people. If general areas went LQ there would be a drastic decrease in NR tags. They would eliminate region tags and no way would they come close to the numbers given to nr as region tags.
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If that’s what’s in the best interest of the deer herd so be it. Not all NRs just want a tag.
 
Since there is some ignorance, here are all the ways that residents have proposed to restrict themselves….

1. Elimination of all doe/fawn and cow/calf tags in any area where the animals are below objective

2. Point restrictions to increase the age class of bucks

3. Shorter season lengths decreasing the number of hunter days

4. Decreases in a ton of limited tags for deer and lope

5. Elimination of any elite tag carve outs (one shot)

6. Implementing a shed closure in areas east of the divid

7. Increasing emergency closure and delaying shed hunting west of the divide

8. Make all youth tags any antlered animal, and no longer any animal

Sorry but the idea that residents are not willing to sacrifice is wrong. We have several things we are willing to “sacrifice”.

Oh and lastly, like most residents here, last years our family had 4 deer tags, 6 elk tags, and 3 lope tags.

We harvested 2 mule deer one lope and one elk. All males and all mature animals… So about 75% of our tags we chose not to fill… I am not sure that a nonresident is willing to pass up and let 75% of their tags go unfilled…

Oh and don’t forget it was not long ago that a lot of NR were all trying hard to eliminate the elk cap and that is still being explored by the game and fish…
 
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elks96 said:
I am not sure that a resident is willing to pass up and let 75% of their tags go unfilled…
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All great ideas on your list. If what you say that residents might not let their tags go unfilled then you kind of have to decrease their tags, right?
 
nripepi said:
All great ideas on your list. If what you say that residents might not let their tags go unfilled then you kind of have to decrease their tags, right?
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Pretty sure he meant non residents...which is 100% true. Most NRs will pound on an immature animal to fill a tag rather than go without.

Don't blame them either lots of time, expense, travel to go home empty handed.
 
jm77 said:
You are the poster child to why 90/10 will become reality some day.
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Oh no...it will "never happen", seem to recall hearing that about the big-5.

I think I'll have that last laugh...and another when the NR sheep, goat, and bison are reduced by 2 more permits when the GF is forced to follow statute on the raffle tags.
 
Id hate to see it go to a quote for residents but if it did im pretty sure id save alot of money by going to Mexico or Canada for muleys the years I didn't draw a tag here?.
 
BuzzH said:
Pretty sure he meant non residents...which is 100% true. Most NRs will pound on an immature animal to fill a tag rather than go without.

Don't blame them either lots of time, expense, travel to go home empty handed.
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I am pretty sure residents are pounding on their fair share of immature animals as well. Can't really blame them as the meat is tasty.
 
nripepi said:
I am pretty sure residents are pounding on their fair share of immature animals as well. Can't really blame them as the meat is tasty.
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Those mule deer only taste good after a guy has had nothing but freeze dried for about a week ! I rank it with sea ducks.
 
nripepi said:
I am pretty sure residents are pounding on their fair share of immature animals as well. Can't really blame them as the meat is tasty.
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Well, going to have to disagree there...2 point mule deer bucks, or mule deer bucks in general, aren't something I find so "tasty" I have to shoot one for the freezer.

Elk and pronghorn different story.
 
The problem with making general areas LQ is they never go back to general. This forces a lot of resident hunters to look at western WY or pile into terrible general areas killing younger animals.

For example, if they make 82 LQ it will never go back to general. I will say 82 hasn't been good for years due to all the pressure when they made the Platte Valley LQ. Where did the GF think hunters were going to go when they made 4 big general units LQ?

Call me crazy, but maybe they should make the Platte Valley general again. This would save deer in 82 without a doubt. Additionally, it would take some pressure off of western WY making those guys happier.

The current Platte Valley deer plan is just saving Colorado deer anyways, because hunters are just hunting Wyoming resident deer with the season dates. Wyoming is providing groceries for Colorado deer all winter long without a chance to hunt them.
 
nripepi said:
All great ideas on your list. If what you say that residents might not let their tags go unfilled then you kind of have to decrease their tags, right?
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Sorry I meant to say that nonresidents wont be happy letting 75% of their tags go unfilled... It was a typo and has been fixed
 
Southpawshooter said:
The problem with making general areas LQ is they never go back to general. This forces a lot of resident hunters to look at western WY or pile into terrible general areas killing younger animals.

For example, if they make 82 LQ it will never go back to general. I will say 82 hasn't been good for years due to all the pressure when they made the Platte Valley LQ. Where did the GF think hunters were going to go when they made 4 big general units LQ?

Call me crazy, but maybe they should make the Platte Valley general again. This would save deer in 82 without a doubt. Additionally, it would take some pressure off of western WY making those guys happier.

The current Platte Valley deer plan is just saving Colorado deer anyways, because hunters are just hunting Wyoming resident deer with the season dates. Wyoming is providing groceries for Colorado deer all winter long without a chance to hunt them.
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I fully agree with your take on this issue...

It was also pointed out that just because they go limited quota does not mean the number of licenses will reduce or the hunting pressure will reduce. Look at how the state is proposing to set regional NR quotas if the cap is removed. The way I understood the process, they counted the number of resident hunters in those areas and then decided to set the NR quota such that the over all numbers -80/20. Problem is that some of those area will see a decent increase in hunters as NR hunters do not head to those areas. Some areas might see a slight decrease. I believe that there are currently a few limited quota deer units that have more hunters now with the limited quota than they ever saw as part of the general.

It is silly to limit hunting in WY for WY deer when every year those deer go into Colorado and get shot.

Another thing I think would really help 82 is working with the land agencies and getting road access closed down in several areas moving those areas to walk in access only. Hard for anything to survive in an areas where everyone is running around with a 700 yard gun and there are roads/atv trails every 400 yards...
 
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Do you guys still believe that limiting buck hunting has anything to do with population numbers or “the herd”??

Save the mommas, pray for summer rain and mild winters if you want to grow the herd. Protect and improve habitat and keep them off the highway.

Closing the season or severely limiting buck tags might help the quality in the short term but it will not help “the herd” rebound.

Im fine if residents want to cut nonres opportunity, but be honest about it. You want bigger bucks and less hunters on the landscape, and it doesn’t have anything to do with “the herd”, unless you are truly misinformed.

A couple years of good moisture and 82 will bounce right back.
 
This ^^, I know of a few units that went LQ locally and they are not as good as when they were general and it’s been a long time since they have changed !! And yes I wouldn’t mind more bigger bucks and less pressure for sure but the biggest bucks come from general units every year, and what I don’t like is the nonres trying to decide what is best for Wyoming’s management, biggest pet peeve ever, so if they would just quit whining and trying to be managers of Wyo wildlife, this site and others we all could get back to talking hunting instead of reading the horse shizzits that they post every thread, thanks in advance nonres ! Now let’s talk hunting ?
 
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willfrye027 said:
Do you guys still believe that limiting buck hunting has anything to do with population numbers or “the herd”??
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I think we all understand that. However, at some point the entire makeup of the herd has reached such a low point that halting killing of any deer may be a good idea. I don't have the foggiest idea where that point is or if any of the hunt areas in Wyo have or will reach that point I just want to make sure the G&F has my full support if their Bio's think this step is warranted.

Personally, I would much rather see Gen deer areas shut down for a year or two than go to LQ or for res hunters to have to pick a region. As far as antelope are concerned I don't think a person would have to try very hard to make a convincing argument that we shouldn't be killing any antelope in many units this year.
 
BuzzH said:
Well, going to have to disagree there...2 point mule deer bucks, or mule deer bucks in general, aren't something I find so "tasty" I have to shoot one for the freezer.

Elk and pronghorn different story.
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Maybe its just mature mulies that taste good. I have mule deer, whitetail, pronghorn and elk in the freezer and mule deer wins out every year. Maybe I am not the norm?
 
mulecreek said:
I think we all understand that. However, at some point the entire makeup of the herd has reached such a low point that halting killing of any deer may be a good idea. I don't have the foggiest idea where that point is or if any of the hunt areas in Wyo have or will reach that point I just want to make sure the G&F has my full support if their Bio's think this step is warranted.

Personally, I would much rather see Gen deer areas shut down for a year or two than go to LQ or for res hunters to have to pick a region. As far as antelope are concerned I don't think a person would have to try very hard to make a convincing argument that we shouldn't be killing any antelope in many units this year.
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There’s some research out there on minimum buck:doe ratios for all the does to get bred..it’s old and mostly out of Utah but I think it’s way lower than most hunters would be “comfortable” having on the landscape. We need does to have twins that survive, who then have twins, etc etc. I don’t believe hunting at current levels has anything to do with that. Plenty of units in Nevada with very small populations that can be hunted every year. Nobody wants to see every last 3 or 4 pt killed..but I think shutting her down for a couple years is overkill and will put pressure on other units that don’t need it. Let some guys come have a crappy hunt rather than all crowd into some other unit.

Antelope, I don’t care or know as much about their population dynamics.

I think it’s great to have hunter input in these decisions but I’d rather have the biologists make the final call rather than the armchair and coffee shop biologist who want to “shut it all down!” Cause they can’t shoot a 4pt from the road like they used to.
 
nripepi said:
Maybe its just mature mulies that taste good. I have mule deer, whitetail, pronghorn and elk in the freezer and mule deer wins out every year. Maybe I am not the norm?
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Elk, mule deer, whitetail deer, and antelope all taste exactly the same to me. It always amazes me how some people can favor one over the other because I just can't tell the difference.
 
I think there's some people posting on the flavor of big-game that must have lost their sense of taste from Covid and haven't recovered yet...all I'll say about that.

WOW!
 
Yeah, it's possible my sense of taste isn't as good as some. I don't know. Just wild game is wild game to me. It's all good. The freezer right now only has deer in it, but all three species- whitetail, blacktail, and mule deer. Sure taste all the same to me. Never had Covid.
 
Rushing to judgement right now and going LQ from general will do nothing to help herds rebound.

@mulecreek I can't believe you would accept region deer tags for residents. Again, that would make almost zero difference giving deer a break.
 
jm77 said:
Rushing to judgement right now and going LQ from general will do nothing to help herds rebound.

@mulecreek I can't believe you would accept region deer tags for residents. Again, that would make almost zero difference giving deer a break.
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I think he is saying shut it all down....no tags at all. Its the only way deer will rebound if it is as bad as most think.
 
junior said:
I think he is saying shut it all down....no tags at all. It’s the only way deer will rebound if it is as bad as most think.
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That would be a really bad idea. It would be twisted and used by anti hunters against us
In major ways….
 
jm77 said:
Rushing to judgement right now and going LQ from general will do nothing to help herds rebound.

@mulecreek I can't believe you would accept region deer tags for residents. Again, that would make almost zero difference giving deer a break.
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Im not saying anything of the sort. I am saying that I support a decision of shutting down Gen or LQ units if that is what Bios feel is necessary. I agree with you that nobody knows yet what is needed. I certainly don't. But once the damage is tallied, if Bios feel shutting units down for a time is needed then I support a move that extreme.

I hate the idea of region tags. On que the idea of resident deer Region tags was brought up to Nesvik at the Pinedale TH by the usual proponents, as being needed more than ever after this winter. I am simply saying if drastic measures are needed, shutting it down for a season is a better option in my mind than going to regions.
 
Hopefully everything warms up soon so we can start to get an idea just how many animals this winter has killed. I'm sure it has killed a lot. With current buck to doe ratios there is no reason for residents to go limited quota or pick a region. I would support no doe harvest on public land, not even if you are a youth. Let kids kill a yearly buck if you want.
 
Killin bucks may not raise the populations exponentially but killing less still puts more deer on the landscape and I've seen areas where there is hardly any mature bucks and if the strongest genetics aren't doing the breeding how is that a healthy heard? That's not how nature intended it
 
Got my update email from G&F on current news. Updated season proposals posted. Most deer areas in Region G & H have a proposed season of Sept. 15th to Sept. 30th. Areas 134 & 135, Oct 1 to Oct 6. 3 pt restrictions of course. Area 130 Type 1...5 tags. Area 141... cut to 50. Region G NR tags still at 400....Region H cut to 400 from 600. Youth hunters must take antlered mule deer revised from any.

Antelope doe tags in western Wyoming are 0 as stated. Looks like Lander region antelope tags got cut more that previously stated. Rawlins/Baggs areas more than 50%, same as Pinedale regions. Western Sweetwater areas cut but not as bad as 58/57. They did add...hmm...you'd have to pencil it...probably ~700 whitetail doe tags in the northeast..some go up a little some down.
 
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They also cut some season lengths. There are some areas that don’t get a full weekend. Down to 5 days

Also noticed that some youth tags are any white tail or antlered mule deer as well.
 
BuzzH said:
Biggest change is further pronghorn cuts, lots of doe tags slashed to zero, cut another 100 tags from NR in H, shorter deer seasons too.
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So at this point can we still
Provide feedback? Do we have to contact the compassion directly? Will it help to contact the bios more?
 
I was surprised to get the email with new proposals. This must be what will be presented on the 18th. It would be nice to comment on this new set…
 

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