Survey

LAST EDITED ON Jul-08-08 AT 06:50PM (MST)[p]I believe:

Abortion stops a beating heart, which is wrong

People should be held accountable for their own actions

Our nation was better off living under the Ten Commandments, rather than banning them

Government is best applied at the lowest level... period

A flat tax is the only fair tax

Americans will donate to support social programs if taxes are reduced by the cost of state-run programs

The right to Bear Arms exists to protect the people from the government

God gave man dominion over the plants and animals, along with that comes responsibilty for negative actions

All governments should operate on a balanced budget and Foreign support should come second to domestic support

Lawsuits should be controlled by forcing unsuccessful litigants and their lawyers to pay all court costs
 
I must be a moderate because I agree with 5 of your points and think the other 5 are out there in Manny land. for some reason I think you're going to be a hit around here.
 
Dude,
I'm not really asking if you agree w/ me. I'm actually trying to get everyone to post their top ten to put a frame of reference on where everyone is coming from. My number one is huge to me, but it might be #10 on another cons list...

What are your top ten?

DC
 
It would hard for me to list those things, I would have to think about it for a bit, on both you and your dads I agree with some and agree with others- but- and a few I don't agree with at all, I see the world as a much more grey color and not so much black and white
 
Piper,
I completely understand the time issue. It's like asking someone to name their all-time favorite song on the spot. However, the world is black and white. There have to be ten things that you find to be your top ten. I'm not saying that there are not 100 more that I would want on the list, or that I would not like to more fully explainsome on the list, but for the sake of establishing who we are, this is similar to the business/phsycho-babble game of writing your five most important items on five pieces of paper and then asking you to give them up one by one. It helps you understand yourself and others understand you and where you are coming from.

All too often we get caught up in the us v. them debates without understanding who we are or who we are debating with.

DC
 
I like all of those, luckless. I'd throw a couple others into the mix:

Racism, bigotry, and sexism are wrong even if sugar-coated with Affirmative Action.

You choose the lifestyle, you choose to pay the medical bills.

Energy independence.
 
Mozey,
I could not agree more on the life style choice issue. It goes much farther than homosexual and drug dealers. I should include everyone. My brother-in-law is a walking hospital bill, but it is mostly because he puts himself out there for it. He drove a monster truck and rolled it seven times because one of his 37" tires broke off on the freeway at 75 mph. Then he went and bought a motorcycle and got hit a week later. Neither was "his fault", but I'm pretty sure I paid a share of his medical bills...

DC
 
I'm not sure if you're talking policy or philosiphy, either way I'm going to get trashed but like I care.



#1 Roe V Wade was correct and will be left alone

#2 The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

#3 Separation of church and state is vital to the nation

#4 Foriegn aid should only be given in times of hardship only, not for long term political purposes

#5 We don't have to live with gangs on our streets, arrest them and give them hard labor, if they resist terminate them.

#6 Stop immigration, we are overpopulated as it is. deport illegals

#7 The war on drugs is no war, it's a game, if you're caught dealing illegal drugs you hang, we're done here.

#8 Israel and Palistine must coexist, the UN will broker a deal and both sides will abide by it, no exceptions, no mercy. this is the one and only answer to peace in the middle east.


#9 Welfare will be replaced by work programs, you work for your check until you find a better job.


#10 I get two limited entry tags of my choice each year, for payment of my giving you these answers to your problems.
 
Dude,
With the exception of R v. W, I'm on board with your views. Some of them are a bit harsh, but I think it would solve problems.

The seperation of church and state is vital, so long as it is used to allow worship, not suspend it, as it has been used to do over the last decade.

DC
 
HD,

I don't see any thing other then the 2 tags that is unreasonable but there is no way you can "terminate" that many people. If child rape doesn't rise to the level of capital crimes no way drug dealing will either. Just pointing that out not arguing.

Also there is no way the UN will solve Palestinian Vs Israeli problem. Neither side could last long if they agreed to peace both are too invested in war with each other. The UN has a long list of failed peace making efforts and they will not solve this one either.

Again just my opinion not an arguement.

Nemont
 
1. The Gov. has grown to large and expanded into areas it doesn't belong. Power should be taken from Federal and Given back to states where it belongs.

2. Bad people are bad people, lets quit blaming society, family, drugs, gangs, etc. and make people responsible for their actions.

3. Abortion IS murder period.

4. I agree with seperation of Gov and Religion. I also believe this country is blessed by GOD, and we will only continue to prosper if we acknowledge that. We are a Christian nation lets not let the minority convince us otherwise.

5. Illegals are illegal. Deport them and shut down the borders.

6. Prisons should be self sustaining entities. They lost all but the most basic rights when they went to prison our taxes shouldn't be paying their room and board.

7. The right to own firearms is a protection for the American people.

8. Welfare should be a work program, no handouts, everyone can contribute somthing

9. Public education needs overhauled, teachers should all be professionals and be paid accordingling. Trim the fat put the money where it does the most good.

10. All elected officials should represent the people who elect them, and be held accountable.
 
OK before I give my top 10 I have to challenge hdude on his number 6.
#6 Stop immigration, we are overpopulated as it is. deport illegals

Now Dude it was not long ago that you were a defender of illegals. If I remeber correctly you said lewt them in they do the jobs Americans wont, if we kick them out the economy will come to a halt, you like them cause they do your farm work ect ect....

Now I happen to agree with #6. But have you had a change of heart and if so why. Oh and please do not deny this. If you do I will simply do a search and humiliate you with your own words :)
I'm not bashin just askin :)
I agree with you Dude on 2,3,5, 6 and 9. Well stated


My Top 10

1. Abortion is murder in my opinion. It should not be up to the Fed to determine if it is legal or not but should be up to the states. Also no public funding should be used for abortion.

2. There is no way to stop folks that want to abuse drugs. Hell that can't even keep them out of the prisons for crying out loud. So I say stop the war on drugs cause it does not and has not ever worked. legalise it and tax the ever lovin chit out it.

3. The Fed is to big. Increased by 60% since Bush took office. Slash and burn all Fed programs except for what protects us against forign invasions.

4. Second amendment speaks for it's self

5. Cut off all forign aide

6. If your gay stay in the friggin closet.

7. Let the Israel deal with their problems the way they wish to.

8. Drill, drill, drill!!!!

9. All sexual predators should be shot on site.

10. If the friggin gov schools are teaching evolution theory they should also be teaching creation, just to remain balanced.





"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Dude

Not that you care at all but we are in agreement on almost all 10. With the exception of #1 and 10. If any body should receive the limited entry tags each year it should be me.


Ransom
 
202 , if welfare bums were forced to work we wouldn't need the illegals, I'm able to say deport the illegals here because in our fantasy game the welfare bums are going to work. in reality niether are going to happen.


Nemont the UN could solve the Israel problem if it had they desire or the stones to, set a line and stick to it. that means if you cross it you die, this goes for Israel as well. they're both small countries with no resorces depending on others for their survival. no more building where you're not supposed to and no more terror attacks. Israel would cease to exist without the US in short order so we could horn them in, if the Arabs couldn't do the same with the Palistinians then we have ways to make them cease to exist, if we failed with Israel they're within their rights to do the same. these are all hate filled people who need someone to force them to coexist together. if they can't work it out then we're better off without them, natural selection.

No it's not going to happen I know that, but it would solve the problem.
 
So just to be clear. If #9 then #6 and if no #9 then no #6?

So if all things stay the same you are all for letting them in? But if we can get the welfare bums to work then you are for deportation?

Your UN senario will not work. In order to enforce it you would have to ahve a million man UN army on that border. Then I and the rest of MMers would have to listen to you complain about American servicemen die for Palestine and how it is costing us to much money.
Why don't you jump on board my idea of turning lose both sides and let them figure it out on their own. Nobody held back the USA when they wiped out the Indians so why should we hold back Israel from wiping out the Palastinians, and while they are at it Syria and Iran?




"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
I didn't say let illegals in, I said we need them to do the work we're too lazy to do.

It wouldn't take than much man power to police the Israel/Palistine border. if Israel starts building on Palistinian land the UN bombs them out, if Palisinians cross the border to set off bombs we bomb their side of the border to dirt making a larger open zone to see them each time. in time they'd get along or one side would be eliminated, I don't care which. your plan of letting Israel take care of it dumb, whatever Israel does is the same as us doing it, we'll finance and fight any battle they start. If we can stop funding Israel and let the world and the Arabs know we're not going to be envolved in any way with what Israel is about to do I'd say let them go at it, hell yes, you boys sort it out. but as long as I'm paying for it and held responsible by the world for Israel's actions I say we force them to an agreement. China and Russia hate Israel and it's only a matter of time until we can't afford to baby sit them, it's in Israels best interest to make a deal now while they have the ability to force a fair one.
 
Just exactly what land do you think is "Palestinian"? The fact of the matter is that they are a poeple (although not really, heritage wise) who have not owned a patch of their own land in years. This so-called border is only a "border" between Israeli land with Palestinians on it and Israeli land with Israelis on it. Don't let yourself be fooled into believing that Hamas, Fatah or the good ol' PLO for that mater, are anything but a bunch of people from different countries who think they have a historic (not legal) claim to property.


DC
 
Just what do you think happened to Palistine? and when and who made it happen? ignorance is a major problem when it comes to this issue, check it out and report back.
 
Dude,
I am well aware of the British/Western influence in the creation of the Jewish state in the region formerly referred to as Palestine. However, the fact that the name Palestine itself exists solely due to Romans renaming Judea in order to crush the last of a major rebellion. Palestine ahs never existed as a country. It is simply a name used to refer to a much larger region than the area "claimed" by Palestinians. It has been controlled by no less than 20 different peoples in its history and I do understnad that there were people who had moved into the area and even c-existed with Israelites, until "their" land was given away. However, it was legally given by the "loser" entity to the "winner" entity, who then established a Jewish state.

Any questions?

DC
 
That's better, now what right do you have to determine who's the winner and who's the loser? and do you see why the Muslim community might be a little sore?

The Palistinians didn't even get a decent rez, well most Indians didn't either so this is par, no wonder you're fine with it. the difference is the native Americans can move out and blend in if they wish just like my mother did, the Palisinians have nothing and nowhere to go and if you have it your way they never will. gee why would they dislike Israel and us, hard to figure now isn't it?
 
Dude,
I dang sure didn't decide the winner or loser. Militaries did! The area was then colonized, just like the rest of the middle east. My state is, was and has been, that the "border" of which you speak does not exist. Two peoples claim one land, period. One of the peoples pre-dates the other by over 1,000 years. It's not up to me, but I'm not going to sit back and watch a people get crushed by their neighbors when my God CHOSE them!

As far as the poor Native American stuff goes... I lived on a Rez when I was a kid. I am also of Native American descent and you know what - my ancestors on that side got their a$$es handed to them by a superior military power. Now, 150 years later, my extended cousins get every opportunity I get + have free land and free, that's right F-R-E-E college, but still do not use it.

DC
 
Well done luckless well done, bravo.
The Dudes arguments are always weak and twisted. he never admits when he is wrong or caught in a double standard.




"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
What double standard? it's the same standard you just see double because you're always stoned.

Your god chose? don't tell me you're one of those fruit cakes. The UN chose and the Palistinians got hosed, we're not going to see any form of peace in the middle east until this is resolved.
 
No dude, there will never be peace in the middle east as long as Israel is 'allowed' to exist. The Muslims will never be happy as long as there is ONE Jew on 'Muslim' soil. Follow your own and advice and check in to it and get back to us. The Muslim's hate Jews more than you hate common sense. :eek:

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
The Israelites are the chosen people of God, like it or not. I agree that the UN played a role in the establishment of modern Israel, but I'm quite sure that the UN, in its infancy or today for that matter, was not powerful enough to make it happen. If you'll re-read your history books, you'll find that Britain "hosed" many of its former colonies when it de-colonized them. Iraq/Kuwait ring a bell.

And yes, I'm one of the those fruit cakes. Since this is a political forum, I usually keep biblical references out of it, but you brought it out... so here goes:

I am a Christian, a follower of Christ. I live my life every day trying to be Christ-like. I raise my kids that way and hope they to find the peace that is to be had in knowing that Christ died for our sins and only asks that we repent of our sins and accept his gift of eternal life.

Now on to how that frames my political views:
As someone, I believe you, pointed out "aren't you Christian supposed to love everyone"... The answer is yes. I love drug users, I love gays, I even love murderers and molesters, but I HATE their sin. Jesus taught love of man, but he also taught hatred of sin. Christians are often to quick to quote that homosexualaity is an abomination to the Lord, before even thinking that it says homosexuality, not homosexuals. Their action make me sick and make God sick, yet He loves them and will accept them into his Kingdom if they repent and ask for His forgiveness. This applies to all sins, not just those deemed the worst by man's measuring stick. Sin is sin ans our best works are as filthy rags to God. He puts no sin above another, as they make him equally disgusted.

Our country has gotten so far away from God that we don't bother repenting. Instead, sin is glorified in movies, in print and on TV. Even if you don't believe in God, what is wrong with having a list of things not to do that include: killing, stealing, coveting, etc? If our country lived by the Ten Commandments, as God intended, we would not have the crime rate we have and we would not be arguing on here about how to balance wealth. Man should care for each other,as God instructed us, but their are few in this country who are taught these basic principles of kindness. If that is the "change" Obama so voraciously wants, than call me an Obama man.

Not preaching, just saying,

DC
 
Any idiot knows the Muslims hate the Jews, and that goes both ways . but that's an observation not a solution, they're either forced to coexist or we do what we're doing in the middle east until the end of time or we go broke which ever comes first. it's a situation with no easy answer and there's a chance there is no answer but doing nothing is sure to fail, but just like the hunt for Bin Laden failure is an acceptable policy to people like you it seems.

Luckless, all I can say is wow. if reality ever gets boring to me I'll try to debate you on that but right now I just can't even operate in that zone.
 
" What double standard? it's the same standard you just see double because you're always stoned.

Your god chose? don't tell me you're one of those fruit cakes. The UN chose and the Palistinians got hosed, we're not going to see any form of peace in the middle east until this is resolved. "

Stoned, only Oregonians think that way.

Look let Israel fend for her self. She will do quite well.






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Dude,
Classic response...

Step 1 - Call a Christian a "Fruit Cake"

Step 2 - Christian responds with tame, not preachy response.

Step 3 - Paint Christian as freak and say you don't have time to debate it.

Dude, I'm not asking you to debate Christianity. I'm simply asking who we should be accountable to. We all say that our systemic issues boil down to a lack of personal accountability. I ask accountability to whom? My fellow man? I have no accountability to my fellow man. To myself? I have no accountability to myself. The to whom? If we left it to accountability to myself, society or my fellow man, there would be no end source of accountbility that amn could not explain away to himself. Accountability to God, however, keeps me in line. I'm talking about supreme accountability.

DC
 
I've tried to debate church stuff and it can't be done. I can present facts and statistics and you come back with bible stuff that makes no sense but you " believe ". if you're willing to only use bible stuff that can be proven I'm in, but I can't debate facts against fiction and get anywhere.

202, as long as we sit back and watch Israel with no military involvment and no cash on the table you can turn them lose. both sides can turn to crap and the pigs can eat them for all I care, it's how it effects this nation that matters to me. but you're not going to have a USA without Israel at our feeder, count on it.
 
Dude if we drill here and drill now we can become free from midle east oil. Hense we would not give a care what happens there. Oil is the only resource over there that has a huge impact on our economy. Drill our own and turn Israel lose to killem all.





"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Dude,
That is precisely why I said this was not about debating Chiristianity. I understand that it takes Faith to believe some things in the Bible. Thst is the entire reason for Faith. I just want to know w=how personal accountability works if you are only accountable to yourself.

As for debating "facts" vs. Things that make no sense, I am all for science so long as it is pure science without prejudice. A true scientist goes into research seeking the truth, not seeking to dis-prove. You cannot tell me that you can't see a stark anti-Christian sentiment in nearly all modern science.

DC
 
Modern science runs on funding. Its all about the money. The squeeky wheel gets the grease. Therefore I am always suspect of science. I believe it is all just about agenda driven.
Oh and if you are a scientist and attempt to interject some Christianity.........well then prepare to be shunned by your colleges..........prepare for your funding to dry up...........prepare to be ridiculed and persicuted by your secular money driven agenda driven colleges and their willing accomplices in the media.






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 

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