The Bundy Gang Is SOOO Screwed

Couldn't happen to a better group of people. Now let's hope all the other losers that were in Oregon/Nevada are tracked down and arrested.
 
He still has hope. He probably thinks that Rowdy Yates will tie a rope around the bars on a window and pull the jail house wall down with his horse, and he'll ride back to Nevada, picking up a few strays along the way.

If not, I'm sure he thinks the Lone Ranger or Marshall Dillon (maybe Festus) will testify in his behalf. At the very least Miss Kitty.
 
Lol eel! Maybe Woody from Toy Story...




[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]n
 
>He still has hope. He probably
>thinks that Rowdy Yates will
>tie a rope around the
>bars on a window and
>pull the jail house wall
>down with his horse, and
>he'll ride back to Nevada,
>picking up a few strays
>along the way.
>
>If not, I'm sure he thinks
>the Lone Ranger or Marshall
>Dillon (maybe Festus) will testify
>in his behalf. At the
>very least Miss Kitty.
it will probably take a high plains drifter to get him out.
 
>He still has hope. He probably
>thinks that Rowdy Yates will
>tie a rope around the
>bars on a window and
>pull the jail house wall
>down with his horse, and
>he'll ride back to Nevada,
>picking up a few strays
>along the way.
>
>If not, I'm sure he thinks
>the Lone Ranger or Marshall
>Dillon (maybe Festus) will testify
>in his behalf. At the
>very least Miss Kitty.



LMAO
 
JUDAS dude!

I hear they might need an Executioner?

Finicum Held His Word!

Now it's time for you to hold Yours!

Maybe you can Help LaVoy the Rest of them?





[font color="blue"]"I Don't get No Sleep!I Don't get No Peace!"
[/font]
 
I find it strange that the right on this site are not supporting Bundy and crew??
What gives? Has Fox news changed their viewpoints? Ronald Reagan. Would be ashamed at you. supporting the evil government over these good ol boys.
 
Piper,

It is much worse than that Piper, the so called right on this site seem to love what big government is doing. and what the eco's are doing to force the issue.

There should be more in jail. Kieran Suckling of the Center for Biological Diversity Center and Garrett VeneKlasen of the NM Wildlife Federation were at the Malheur for almost two weeks getting in peoples faces and were pushing violence. They were throwing gasoline on the fire to further their agenda of removing all public lands grazing from the public lands. There is video evidence of this and the US Attorney General has been notified of their violation of many of the same laws the Malheur gang are charged with.

These awful people should be the ones in jail as they are ruining lives in a huge way and they make Cliven and the boys look like saints. The only thing they did was they were smart and left their guns home and maybe they don't even own a gun. They probably support the liberals taking away our guns so we can't counteract their massive scourge on humanity in the western US. Suckling is a very evil man. He is an earth worshipper and doesn't want any human presence out on much of the public land.
 
Hey piper aren't you one of those eco wackos. Post up the pics of you with the long hair spiking a tree. Maybe even throw in the pics of you chaining yourself to all that mining equipment. You welfare babies sure make me laugh.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-16 AT 01:01PM (MST)[p]Grosventrehunter. I have 4 chainsaws a side by side, a 4*x4 with a winch,and a trophy room with stuffed heads in it, ?. But yes I like wilderness areas,public land, elk more than cattle on that public land, native bighorns instead of domestic sheep,

I like forests and trees and wildlife too.
Should I feel bad about that? Should I join your tree haters club just to feel part of the crowd? Be a real hunter like you?

Or maybe Stoney, the guy who thinks the wealth of the earths resources should belong to a select few people.
 
I like all those things as well. Matter of fact, I would rather spend my hunting season in wilderness areas. But tbe Eco freaks are no different than the Bundy's or levoys of the world. And the eco freaks are part of the deq and epa.
 
The so called eco freaks haven't proposed to sell public land, they don't demand cow elk hunts so they can feed more privately owned cattle on public land. They didn't kill bighorn sheep with diseases carried by European sheep. those are things that directly effect me and my family, especially the loss of public lands.

I get it, they promote wolves, yet in reality the wildlife loss from that is nothing in comparison to the other things I just mentioned.

The point is that pumping up one side of a coin doesn't do anything, extremism is just what it sounds like it is.

I just say what I think, I'm not beholden to a rightwing viewpoint or left.

There are all types working for government agencies,I have met forest service workers who think domestic animal grazing is great, others who don't. The EPA is the same way.
Just because Stoney says something doesn't mean it's true. I know exactly where he comes from, been around that type for decades, basically It's all about them and no one else.
 
Stoner, if the hippies leave their guns at home and don't take over public facilities and threaten law enforcement isn't that called protest?

Explain how what they did was equal to what the Bundy butt bunch did and why they may face equal charges.


I'm not saying I agree with the eco's. but their actions at the Malheur were not violent or illegal from anything I've seen or heard.


They have their agenda and you have yours. you're both extremists we should continue to resist.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Piper, it is pointless to respond to yours posts, but, here goes.

You need to spend some time in CA (or it at least inform yourself about what is happening there) before you go blindly through life thinking that the worse enemy hunting has is big money ranchers and conservatives.

You appear to lead a sheltered life with no idea how the liberal kooks that you align yourself will take access to the outdoors away completely, stop hunting completely, and try to get your guns in the bargain.

You need to get out more, and take the blinders off.
 
>
>
>
>Stoner, if the hippies leave
>their guns at home and
>don't take over public facilities
>and threaten law enforcement
>isn't that called protest?
>
>Explain how what they did was
>equal to what the Bundy
>butt bunch did and why
>they may face equal charges.
>
>
>
>I'm not saying I agree with
>the eco's. but their
>actions at the Malheur were
>not violent or illegal from
>anything I've seen or heard.
>
>
>
>They have their agenda and you
>have yours. you're both extremists
>we should continue to resist.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends

Hey dude!

If the Eco's moved in on your Ground & Sugared your Stroker & a few of your Tractors you'd change your F'N Tune!

So Don't tell us you wouldn't LaVoy them!




[font color="blue"]"I Don't get No Sleep!I Don't get No Peace!"
[/font]
 
Wasn't that the plan all along to confiscate their property , duh....most of you will fit right in with the new world order, if hillbillery get in office it'll be here sooner then u think, but if God willing Trump does we'll have a few year reprieve as I already said if the establiment don't assassinate trump first....
 
>Wasn't that the plan all along
>to confiscate their property ,
>duh....most of you will fit
>right in with the new
>world order, if hillbillery
>get in office it'll be
>here sooner then u think,
>but if God willing Trump
>does we'll have a few
>year reprieve as I already
>said if the establiment don't
>assassinate trump first....


Oh yes, the Bundys were tricked into breaking the law starting decades ago...
 
That article was 14 years ago. we can find bad things about the Germans and Japs too if we go back a little farther. I was talking about stoner implying the eco's should face the same charges as the terrorists in this case.


Manny , Trump is not religious. maybe no more religious than I am. is that really who god wants? but then again god wanted Obama for two terms. maybe you should question his judgement ?














Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
In the natural world that radical environmental groups worship, there is no place for human hunting. Nature creates the perfect balance on her own. They've been silent about it for the most part because right now they are using hunters who see them as saving hunting. A wake up call is coming.

And a certain faction of environmental groups couldn't care less about the natural world. You never see them out in the woods. They are just anti capitalists who see a way to hurt America.
 
>In the natural world that radical
>environmental groups worship, there is
>no place for human hunting.
>Nature creates the perfect balance
>on her own. They've been
>silent about it for the
>most part because right now
>they are using hunters who
>see them as saving hunting.
>A wake up call is
>coming.
>
>And a certain faction of environmental
>groups couldn't care less about
>the natural world. You never
>see them out in the
>woods. They are just anti
>capitalists who see a way
>to hurt America.

Eel has the right of it.

Piper, just hates successful people so much that in his mind everything bad is their fault.
 
eelgrass,

Right on. These radicals are earth worshippers and hunting is in their crosshairs.

Tog,

These radicals were not only there protesting but trying everything within their radical playbook to incite violence. They were in the face of anybody whom showed any support of the Bundy or Finicums. They jumped on this protest because of their extreme hatred of the public lands rancher. They were not there for any other purpose than to throw gas on the fire. Believe me, I know these guys personally and we heard Suckling's lies at the recent public meeting in Silver City, NM the other evening whereby he had hoped to stoke the fire and cause further unrest but got a pretty good rebuke from the citizens of the SW. I think their little meeting backfired on them. I live here and fight these a##holes everyday Tog, and for you to tell me that I am no better than these guys borders on the insane. I try very hard to protect the sustainable yielding multiple use of the public lands.

Yeah sure Tog I am a real extremist. Give me a break. My whole purpose on this web site is to try and educate those sportsmen here whom don't really know much about the public lands livestock ranchers, their history and the true economics of running livestock on the public lands and how and why they got here or are here.

The real enemy is Suckling and Robinson and the many radical ecos whom don't want the consumptive user on the public land. Livestock is their number one target but hunting is definitely on their hit lists. VeneKlasen is in a little different role but never the less he is a dangerous man, now that he partnered with Suckling on the Malheur protest.
 
Nobody I know in Burns had y issues with the people you're worried about. and hey didn't stay long either. how dare americans protest the armed illegal takeover of a public facility right? damn people anyway.

The only laws broken at the Malheur were broken by your heroes. so let's stay on topic and not drag your dog and pony show into my community.


Again with the poor grazers crap. I've offered solutions like opening the allotments up for bid to determine true market value and you don't like that. isn't that the real way tot he price? when I go to the sale yard allotment holders don't get a 75% discount on cattle why is that?

I've also asked for proof allotments are not underpriced to no avail. find that yet?

I asked the producer who runs my old allotment how much he got from the LFP last week at lunch. he paid $12,400 in fees and collected $35,700 from the LFP. that's a raw deal isn't it ? poor guy. considering he saved at least 20k off market value for the grazing that' a net of 55k off the taxpayer .

I've said I'm okay with this and I am. but cut the bullchit and tell me why joe the plumber should cry tears for the federal allotment holder? do tell.


















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
> My whole purpose on
>this web site is to
>try and educate those sportsmen
>here whom don't really know
>much about the public lands
>livestock ranchers, their history and
>the true economics of running
>livestock on the public lands
>and how and why they
>got here or are here.

Define "sportsmen here whom don't really know much about the public lands".

Is is sportsmen who truly don't know about the issues going on vis a vis government ownership and management of public lands, or is it more simply "people who don't agree with me"?

Now, I've certainly limited my criticism to just the shenanigans that the Y'all Queda perpetrated up in Oregon. If there is going to be a discussion about government stewardship of public lands, then let's have that discussion. But as the saying goes "soap box, ballot box, jury box, ammo box. In that order".

The so-called "Second Sagebrush War" is still in the soap box phase as public awareness of the issue is certainly not widely known, but we have jackasses like Finicum who went full potato and decided to get into a quickdraw competition with a couple of cops and came in second. This, on top of Y'all Queda and Cliven's lawless antics certainly doesn't do much to put The Cause into a popular light.

I have no dog in the ranching fight, but I do care about mine and other hunter's access to public lands.
 
>
> I've said I'm okay
>with this and I am.
> but cut the bullchit
>and tell me why joe
>the plumber should cry tears
>for the federal allotment holder?
>do tell.
>
>

Because they are ranchers and their chosen lifestyle is a right not a choice. Ask Stoney.

Nemont
 
Tog,

LFP??? What ever that is?

So if things are so good on your old grazing allotment why aren't you still there?

All of my family, friends, neighbors and acquaintances choose this lifestyle. They choose to live out on the land and steward the land to utilize an ever growing natural resource and to raise livestock as more of a way of life than anything. It is in their blood and that is what they cherish and want to do. They do however have a right to a life of liberty and happiness without undue government overreach and environmental injustices.

I don't know many public lands ranchers who are very wealthy. Most of them are just making a living and making a life for themselves and their families and don't need a bunch of jackasses like you spouting off your simple minded hate and rhetoric. All of them sign their permits, pay their grazing fees and above all steward the public land and along with their improvements make the land more productive for most all kinds of wildlife, for your and the rest of the public's enjoyment.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-16 AT 01:58PM (MST)[p]Then why are you crying oppression all the time? Find where it says the U.S. Taxpayers owe anyone a lifestyle?

I am good with allowing public lands grazing, I think it is a great tool to manages land and it is a renewable resource. What gets tiring is guys like you who don't believe in the Free Market for grazing, don't realize what a good deal they got when they have an allotment that allows them to free up cash flow by not having to buy land and then cry oppression if they don't get everything they want.

Why not quit crying about oppression and wanting the Sheriff to run off all the Feds and whining about how hard it is to make a living ranching. Nobody told them to keep on ranching and no American owes another American any kind of a lifestyle.

Stop with all the poor me bs and people would be with you to stand up and say the eco freaks are wrong. Instead you whine about the same government that protects the grazing of allotment holders and you don't want the government to get full market value through establishing a competitive bidding process because you want government to keep all the competitors out.

Like every fake conservative you love socialism as long as it benefits you but nobody else should expect their government cheese.

Nemont
 
Captain

No the public lands rancher receives no landowner permits from his federal leases. He does provide salt and water and has to work many extra days to repair fence damage from the elk. Just part of the cost of doing business on the public land.

Nemo,

Nobody is crying and whining, just wanting stupid knotheads like you to know what the real world out here is really like. You certainly don't have a clue on what it would take to put everything on a bid even if it were practical. You keep whining and crying about how unfair the system is but you don't even have a clue as to the reality of what is what in the public lands rancher arena.
 
You're right. I didn't think about that part. I was just thinking most ranchers that lease, own a small amount that might get them a few tags.
 
>
>Nemo,
>
>Nobody is crying and whining, just
>wanting stupid knotheads like you
>to know what the real
>world out here is really
>like. You certainly don't have
>a clue on what it
>would take to put everything
>on a bid even if
>it were practical. You keep
>whining and crying about how
>unfair the system is but
>you don't even have a
>clue as to the reality
>of what is what in
>the public lands rancher arena.


I have never said the system is unfair. I was establishing that you do not want to compete for grazing if you have an allotment and that it is the despised Federal Government who made up that rule. Instead of understanding that all implied value in the grazing permit rests on government rules to protect the allotee you want to bite the hand that gives you value. All it would take for the Federal Government to do is switch to a bid system and your permit values would be reduced almost to zero. Yet you scream oppression because you hate the government. Yet when it comes to getting your government cheese are you just fine with taking with both hands while crying oppression.

Public land ranchers are almost always their own worst enemies.

Why do you believe the owners of Federal Public lands owe ranchers a continued life style? Is a life style choice owed to anyone else in America or just public lands ranchers?

Government over reach happens in every industry and every sector of the economy. Yet you think ranchers are the only American who have to deal with having their way of life and way of making a living disrupted by changing regulations. Every other American has had to adapt and over come so should ranchers. They are no more or less important then any other American trying to make a living.

Nemont

PS. You should thank all the punks working for wages who have to pay for you medicare and your social security, they aren't running around whining about oppression.
 
Stoner? seriously? you're a cattleman and you don't know what the LFP ( Livestock Forage Program ) is? o'tay.......


I don't know what part of California you're from but much of the west including Harney country has collected millions from it in recent years. either you need to get out of the trailer park more or you're all hat and no cattle. check with your local FSA to see if your cow qualifies.


http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/FSAs-Livestock-Forage-Program-274720631.html











Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
News to me. I guess maybe we have been fortunate to not have any extended droughts here.

I'm a 5th generation cattleman that doesn't own a cow. I saw the light in the public lands grazing arena many years ago and got into outfitting. Some of my family and all of my neighbors and friends still have grazing allotments however. Not one of them has taken any LFP monies that I know of.

I'm still paying self employment tax into my Social Security fund and still pay taxes that a portion of goes into Medicare I imagine.

Nemo & Tog, you sure can't get off your welfare rancher ignorance. You better come down to southwest NM here and let some of these so called old welfare ranchers show you around. I truly think you would get a whole new light on what is real here on the ground. I don't know what those nasty old welfare ranchers up there where you live, ever did to you but dang, they must have depants you and threw you into a cold creek or picked you up and dropped you on your heads.
 
There was never a cowboy tough enough to try and depants me. So that isn't the problem.

All I would like is for you to stop whining about oppression when you are taking with both hands. Nobody owes you and others a lifestyle just because they decide to ranch. It is that simple, end of story.

I am good with the current system but then I watch Bundy/Finicum/Stoner whine about how unfair life is and that they are owed a lifestyle. Nobody owes you a lifestyle or grazing for that matter.

Nemont
 
Nobody has both hands out that I know here.


All any of us asks, is a for a fair shake. Nobody is crying and whining. I try to point out the truth and you starting wailing, crying and gnashing your teeth. Get over it Nemo you are the real crybaby here or maybe sometimes you don't cry, when your all loving federal government lifts you up and pats you on the back and tells you to go back to sleep and that everything is good. Go give another speech for Shillary. You seem to have her same ideals.

I am trying to point out what really is happening here where I live and don't know about where you live. Evidently everyone there, including you, have their hands out. Crazy!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 02:19PM (MST)[p]Stoner,

I will put my conservatives bona fides up against yours any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I am a real conservative not a fake one who wants government controlling their competition, wants their entitlements because they "paid" for them and then wants to whine they are oppressed.

You are the one who referenced that ranching is a lifestyle and that the American people should pay homage to them for ranching, I can pull your quotes if you want me to. Nobody forced any of those guys to decide to raise cattle, they did that on their own. Nobody is forcing them to invest money into public lands which they do not own.

So if you want to argue policy and facts let's start with your stupid contention that you have a Social Security Account and are paid out of what you paid in. Once I show what a dimwit you are for believing that we can start getting real about all your other whining.

Here is a good starting point for those too stupid to understand how their Social Security is an entitlement.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/financi...y-believe-about-social-security/#d7b5bf223d09



Nemont
 
Ne,

Go back and read the forbes report.

Nowhere does it debunk or disprove what I am saying. It is not a true entitlement as we have paid into the system all of our lives and still are. Now stupid, show me different. How is it an entitlement?

I never suggested anyone paying homage to anybody at any time. What I am saying is that government and radical eco oppression has had and is having tremendous effects on ranchers and landowners and farmers and every day citizens, especially in the western US where the federal government continued regulation overreach is affecting almost everyone, especially anyone under the thumb of the Federal Agencies namely the EPA, The USFS and the BLM. If you are on total private land you are only slightly better off as the ESA can still wipe you out if they want.

Wake up and pull your head out of the sand. What an ignorant liberal jacka##. You would fit right in with either Trump or Shillary with your love of big gov. Maybe they will make you BLM Chief or USFS Chief and then you can get rid of all of the old subsidized ranchers and you could tip toe out through the tulips singing praises to big gov.
 
You said you have an account with your name on it and get back what you paid in. Your government cheese comes from taxes paid today. That is the very definition of an entitlement, period.


Like I said I am a conservative and don't buy into all the fake conservative rhetoric that if you don't believe the government is evil and out to get then you are a liberal. I will put up my conservatives credentials up against your any day and like I said twice on Sundays. I don't fake being a conservative like you do.

I never said government was great so stop arguing like a two year old. I never said it doesn't over reach. Truly oppressed people don't get checks from the government and cash them to get to the next meeting whining about the government like you all do. It is a disease of being a fake conservative that believe the taxpayers owe them a life style. That is exactly what you said.

I will spend the time and quote your exact words.

Nemont
 
Exactly.

Biofuel is another case of government helping ag. I'm in favor of expanding the program because it puts people to work and the money stays in the US. but just like public subsidized grazing it's not really in the taxpayers best interests all the time. commodity prices are helped by government mandates for biofuel, that puts cash in my pocket. so I should hate the government? stoner says yes.


CRP isn't really for conservation. it's a tool to reduce overproduction and regulate commodity prices. it's either that or bring the DCP back to keep the grain belt in business. or both. might as well fallow ground.





There are plenty of things for ag producers to kabitch about and many are valid. but the big bad government is not one of them. pick your fights and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Nemo,

Everyone has a Social Security Account. They compile all you paid into the system for all the years you have had social security deducted from your paycheck or what you paid in self employment taxes. I still pay self employment taxes so I guess my government cheese was made right here at my business. Give me a break! Government cheese my a##. You get paid exactly what you pay into the system.

Tog,

Nobody around here is feeling sorry for ourselves, just pointing out the real world and what is happening. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out the overreach of the EPA and much of what is happening within the BLM an USFS, to come to a pretty clear picture of the absolute and ever growing overreach of the Federal Government, especially under the Barack O Administration.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:30AM (MST)[p]You have a social security number, there isn't an account with your name on it.

You don't get back what you paid in, your payments come out of current payroll taxes just like any other entitlement. It has been a pay as you go system since the Social Security Act was passed. Period.

Your government cheese runs far deeper because you are on the biggest wealth transfer in the history of the World and that is Medicare. Your medicare taxes don't even cover the cost to administer the plan to you so don't get to high on your horse.

It amazes me how willfully dumb people on the taxpayer dole are.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/18/5-facts-about-social-security/

Social Security steals from the young and gives to the old. It is an inter generational theft on a massive scale and you are taking from you kids and grand kids.


Nemont
 
I fully realize Medicare is a big wealth transfer and the taxes don't even begin to cover it. Obama Care will effectively take 1/6 of the nations wealth to operate. Do you think the Federal Government will be able to manage this kind of a program and capture of wealth?

A quote from the above Forbes report: "Your benefit amount is based on your earnings history and age at retirement, not on how much you and your employer paid in Social Security taxes, (although for most people are closely tied with their earnings)."

I can guarantee you this much they base what your monthly Social Security check is on how much you have paid in. For most people they will never get back what they paid in. Just common sense and a little fact checking will tell you this.

Sure they didn't keep the exact money collected from you in an account. Sure the people working today are paying the Social Security beneficiaries receiving checks today. Give me a break.

I can also guarantee they have every person with a Social Security number on record and accounted for and how much they paid in and or are still paying in.They base the total amount you paid in on how much you will receive when you retire. I don't get a whole lot because of a family accountant didn't pay the self employment tax for several years. I can tell you this much what I receive isn't enough to buy groceries for two in a months time.

Ok, Nemo so when you turn 62 or 65 or 67 or whatever the retirement age is for you, are you going to tell the government to keep your Social Security check because you aren't entitled to it.

What about Medicare. You being an insurance agent I presume, you can get cheap enough insurance to tell the government to keep their medicare. More power to you, good, you are not beholden to anybody except for the masses enrolled in your insurance program to help you out when you might need it. Obama has made this almost impossible for many people to afford unless they go on the dole and accept the cheese the other insurance payers are getting robbed and hi jacked for.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:41PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:08?PM (MST)

Medicare is a big wealth transfer, what a friggin laugh. The whole country is a wealth transfer.

It's a sad mess for many people, rights given by the country, property rights,grazing rights,water rights, mineral rights, rights and more rights. Talk about wealth transfers!! in other words taking huge chunks of the earth that supports life and give it to certain people by birthright. And if it doesn't suit your taste ?well tough nuts, go die in your inner city, breath your ##### air and drink cancer water. Strange system we made up, human greed and old traditions,

Oh wait healthcare is a huge wealth transfer, I damn well forgot. And of of course there is Stoneys grazing rights, cause he and his cohearts are special, and every one else is a POS
 
Stoney thinks it's 1868 and all ranchers are just like the Cartwrights. sorry but that's not the case.


The government serves the people however they vote for it to serve them. it's not an evil mysterious entity it's the product of the constitution and majority rule. if you don't like it your option is to vote for something different. if that fails it's not because the system is broken or evil it's because you are the minority and it's tough to be you.









Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Piper, why do you hate this country so much. Still the best place in the world that with hard work you can have success.

Are you bitter, because everyone else has figured out how to win and you keep losing?
I think you may want to move to Venezuela. It would be more to your taste. Government takes care of you, and those evil people that have worked hard and have more than you get punished, just the way you like.
 
Piper,

Yeah right! What an ignorant representative (loosely defined) of the human species.

Tog,

You of all people I think really knows what is happening and you and a few others here whom hate the public land ranchers with such a rabid passion are a bigger part of the problem. The Constitution is not a living breathing document but has been subverted by the courts and laws over time and Justice Scalia was the only one of the SCOTUS whom believed in the basic Constitution that all congress persons, judges and law enforcement swear to uphold.

What I have tried to bring out here and it falls on your blind eyes and heart is that the public lands rancher has come beyond the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act and 99.9% of them comply with the signing their permits and paying their grazing fees and are competitive in the market place and are damn sure not subsidized as in your and many people's beliefs whom have been propagandized into this fallacy over the years.

Piper,

Many of these ranchers are the salt of the earth and continue to operate unapologetically to you or anyone. In your eyes the ranchers are the haves and you are the crying whining little have nots. Pretty simple to see that. I imagine if you are a sportsman or a hunter you spend a lot of time out on the public land enjoying the benefits that the public lands grazers have made in the healthy and abundant wildlife numbers.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 01:29PM (MST)[p]>I fully realize Medicare is a
>big wealth transfer and the
>taxes don't even begin to
>cover it. Obama Care will
>effectively take 1/6 of the
>nations wealth to operate. Do
>you think the Federal Government
>will be able to manage
>this kind of a program
>and capture of wealth?
>
>A quote from the above Forbes
>report: "Your benefit amount is
>based on your earnings history
>and age at retirement, not
>on how much you and
>your employer paid in Social
>Security taxes, (although for most
>people are closely tied with
>their earnings)."
>
>I can guarantee you this much
>they base what your monthly
>Social Security check is on
>how much you have paid
>in. For most people they
>will never get back what
>they paid in. Just common
>sense and a little fact
>checking will tell you this.
>
>
>Sure they didn't keep the exact
>money collected from you in
>an account. Sure the people
>working today are paying the
>Social Security beneficiaries receiving checks
>today. Give me a break.
>
>
>I can also guarantee they have
>every person with a Social
>Security number on record and
>accounted for and how much
>they paid in and or
>are still paying in.They base
>the total amount you paid
>in on how much you
>will receive when you retire.
>I don't get a whole
>lot because of a family
>accountant didn't pay the self
>employment tax for several years.
>I can tell you this
>much what I receive isn't
>enough to buy groceries for
>two in a months time.
>
>
>Ok, Nemo so when you turn
>62 or 65 or 67
>or whatever the retirement age
>is for you, are you
>going to tell the government
>to keep your Social Security
>check because you aren't entitled
>to it.
>
>What about Medicare. You being an
>insurance agent I presume, you
>can get cheap enough insurance
>to tell the government to
>keep their medicare. More power
>to you, good, you are
>not beholden to anybody except
>for the masses enrolled in
>your insurance program to help
>you out when you might
>need it. Obama has made
>this almost impossible for many
>people to afford unless they
>go on the dole and
>accept the cheese the other
>insurance payers are getting robbed
>and hi jacked for.

I am not a fake conservative crying oppression while getting a free ride for my health care off the backs of my grand kids like you are. Also you are incorrect, most people get far more back from Social Security than they paid in. It is an entitlement because your government cheese comes from current workers.

I already said I would cash my social security check and then donate it to a youth organization that mentors youth hunters. The youth are our future but the boomer generation just takes and doesn't care about the future.

I have some real conservative cowboys here who wouldn't vote for a democrat for dog catcher but have no problem taking the tax credit from the health insurance market place. When you ask them about it they have the same answer you have, well they deserve it because they paid taxes. No matter what it does to their kids and grand kids, as long as they get their government cheese, that is all that matters, just like you. No a worry about the next generation, just yourself.

Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 10:27AM (MST)[p]I have to laugh, NMpaul. It wasn't as dramatic as I thought but I knew you response before I read it. It's a great country we have for sure, there are a lot of great country's in the world though.

I think the country has lost it's way. And although I get disgusted with people in general, it's great to see what's happening in politics right now.

Bernies and Donalds successes say it in a nutshell. Hundrends of millions are sick of the politics of your so called "successful people " and the incredible love they have for themselves. It must suck to be you and be so immersed into Ronald Reagan and Paul Harvey fantasies that you cannot see the real world.

It's just hate for their fellow man they peddle.
I have no problem with rich successful people and have good friends who are such. But there are other things in this world, maybe someday when you are older and wiser you will understand?
Right now it's a battle against the rightwing and the ones who want the wealth from public lands for their person success, as you describe success anyway. Opportunity and a robust economy for everyone is another priority.
But first we must put up bed the Stoneys of the world, because their success means a loss for many others, and that's that concerns me the most. And that's what people seem to be waking up to finally.
 
I'm not going to argue the constitution with your, see it as you might.
I personally know Demar Dahl and others as I'm sure you do. And salt of the earth is not what I would describe them as. LOL.

Elitists is what they are, to put it nicely. Some of the worst people on earth.

I know full well the politics of wildlife in Nevada. The elk slaughters on public land to make room for private cattle. The loss of sage grouse and many other species. The native bighorn die offs,

What the public land ranchers take is far more than they give overall. But I'm a realist and there is a balance. It just bothers me when it's so out of whack. And it is and sadly it's right where many of your comrades are making their assault on public lands.
 
Nemo,

....comes from current workers.??????

Explain how that makes it an entitlement.

They raised my social Security taxes years ago and the excess money was put in US Treasury bonds that until now the interest has paid for the current recipients, and this was by design so that the SS would stay solvent and just now they are starting to cash in some of the bonds to pay for the shrinking working class. Maybe if we get the right President elected the US job force will grow and still keep the SS fund soluble. Maybe you ought to read the downloads you post. Go back and read both of the Forbes reports.

There have been many studies done on how early to start collecting SS and just about all of them prove that by starting at 62 most will get the most benefit as the average age of the US citizen is around 80 years old and most SS taxpayers have paid into the system for over forty years and only collect SS about 20 years. This in itself evens out the amount you pay in versus what they pay back.

Both of the Forbes reports you posted don't tell the whole story. That is the trouble with the internet you can find any kind of study to back up your theory and an equal number to repute what you think the other reports proclaim. The same with polls and petitions. It all depends on the questions asked and how they are asked and it can drive the results of that particular poll or petition to do exactly what the petitioner wants whether it is wrong or right. I see this used by so many here on the MM and other blogs.

Sometimes common sense or even a little horse sense can prove to be the winner.

I'm sure glad you think of yourself as a true conservative Nemo. You also believe the Constitution is a living breathing document. You believe a lot of liberal progressive crap and you prove it everyday here on MM.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 11:15AM (MST)[p]When did I say the Constitution is anything other than the Founding Document.

The trouble is that you believe getting your government cheese is free and you are owed it because you paid in.

I have read the entire article.

You are part of horse but not the sensible part.


I know I am conservative who doesn't take with both hands and then cries oppression like you do.

Name a single liberal or progressive idea I have stated? Please put up or shut up because you are Just like Manny, long on accusation but facts never entire into your argument, you argue on emotions like the liberals do.

Even the Social Security Administration calls it what it is: an entitlement program.

So what if you paid for 40 years and collect for 20, what matters is what you get back, period and it on average exceeds what you pay in. Even if didn't just paying your tax doesn't mean the government owes you anything like you want to believe. That money has been spent and the current money being paid is coming off the backs of your kids and grand kids, not that boomers like you care who you enslave in debt prison but that is a fact period. Medicare is even worse of a wealth transfer from your grand children to you but you suck that up with gusto too.

Social Security and Medicare are even beyond entitlements what they really are wealth redistribution programs.

2011-age-gap-02.png


http://www.forbes.com/sites/evapere...generations-reaches-record-high/#2fa6b5d39e48

TransfersPer_4.jpg



All you really should do is say thanks to your kids and grand kids for slaving away so you can take more from them. I don't suspect you will thank them but you should.

Nemont
 
And what makes you Nemo and Piper any different than all of the other hard working individuals whom are paying their taxes, abiding by the law and making an honest living for their families. I maintain you two guys are brainwashed to the max to not understand anything I have testified to in support of public lands grazers. I live here in the middle of two of the nation's largest Forests, plus having permits in four National Forests and two BLM Districts and have seen more in my day than the two of you could ever even imagine or wonder about. I have witnessed for 43 years what these ranchers are all about and what they do and provide for their families and communities and in no way are they the bad guys you guys make them out to be. Come down and get a picture of the true public lands world down here. I think you would be amazed and start appreciating what this is all about and how it has evolved. You two are still in some nether land. Show me all the charts and BS posts you want but that doesn't change the facts. of what is really here.

It is very apparent guys must live in a different world and maybe the BLM lands up there are different, but I do know about the evolution of the USFS and the BLM and the NM State lands here in NM and AZ. I am not prejudiced one way or the other, Maybe Bundy's, Finicums and the Hammonds were sorry buggers, but I don't really think so, just don't try to put everybody else in the same category.

Piper what about you taking your passion and a form of wealth of deer and elk and antelope from the public land? You are subsidized and taking from the public land also. Do you not put the meat in the freezer to feed you and your family. It is not too hard to see that our public lands are managed for a sustainably yielding multiple use which includes all of the gambit of consumptive uses for the betterment of all society. But you and Nemo only know how to bad mouth the mostly hard working Americans that make this nation great. You guys have been propagandized by our true enemy the radical ecos whom do not want any of us out there but the esthetic dreamers, tree huggers and bird watchers, and in much of the wilderness area, no human activity.
 
Stoney,

Exactly cowboys are no different than any other American. They are not more important, they don't do anything special that makes the government owe them their lifestyles.

My true enemies are whining fake conservatives who think because they vote Republican and want to take public lands away and give them to the States that they are conservatives. They aren't.

Public land grazers are usually their own worst enemies when it comes to the way they view what they think is their birth right. It isn't the governments fault they built their business on a public owned asset. Nobody forces any of them to raise cattle.

So you are the only one on here who is trying to sell propaganda that the Marlboro man is owed continued grazing without any changes to how they graze. Multiple use doesn't always mean grazing is the best the use of the land, go check it out.

Nemont

Also at some point you need to admit that your medicare and Social security are a transfer from your children and grand children directly into your pocket. It shows what kind of a fake conservative people are when they continue to support robbing the youth in order to get more for themselves.
 
Stoner show where I ever made any display of hate for public land grazing or those who graze it. I support them.

All I've ever said is it's a hell of a deal and programs like the LFP are another case where the government tosses us a bone. just STFU and end this victim bullchit it's not going to fly. crap like the Bundy's pulled and you're spewing are counterproductive to all ranchers, most of all those on subsidized public pasture.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
You STFU buddy. You don't have a clue. You have made it very plain that all public lands ranchers are scum because they are subsidized. You seem to be the only self proclaimed pure sob in the country, at least according to you.

If it were so darned good as you proclaim, everyone would be knocking down the door trying to get some of the so called subsidized public pasture. What a total jacka##. Yeah right you support public lands grazing.

All I have ever tried to do here was point out what made those guys up there do what they did. They darned sure didn't do it right. There are 50 documented cases of permittees not signing and paying their grazing fees and not one ever succeeded. I am personally acquainted with some of them and a few are still in the battle. I know very, very well the workings of the permitting process and how it has affected so many ranchers whom didn't tow the line. I am intimately involved with one young rancher family whom I think we have got going the right way and is going to do things legally. One thing you cannot accuse me of is being ignorant to whats going on with many of these ranchers. The young family has been three years without a needed fence to rotate his cattle properly and the pat excuse is that they (USFS) are too busy and can't get the archeology studies done and yet it is an existing fence. It forces him to use one pasture way too much and he has had his numbers cut from 140 to 80 head. We have finally got the RITF from NMSU involved to work with the USFS to audit and assess the range and the problems with the needed work done by the FS caused by one of its obstinate range con employees.

I know public lands ranching inside and out and backwards. You darn sure can't tag me otherwise and as a radical. I have spent my whole life either ranching or intimately involved and still am. I have served on and still serve on many agriculture organizations and was President of the Gila Livestock Permittee Association for many years. I spent 12 years on the New Mexico Farm and Livestock Bureau and had multiple duties one of them running an insurance company.

I am permitted on four National Forests and two BLM Districts for outfitting and know the country and land in both AZ and NM intimately. I have owned three different grazing allotments and still have a son and nephew who are ranching on the Gila National Forest. I know a huge number of ranchers in both states. I spent my first 30 years on an all private lands ranch in Colorado and know the public lands grazing there in the Routt & White River National Forests. Most if not all of these many grazing allotments, year long and seasonal were integral parts of their individual ranches and never once did we ever think they were getting any kind of a sweet deal, and of course they weren't then and still are not. You can give me all the bull you want but you are jaundiced no matter what you exclaim in you above post. Oh and Iv'e told you already numerous times, putting these long established grazing allotments on the bidding process absolutely won't work. You have a severe public lands grazing knowledge deficiency.
 
Stone

You want a medal or a cheat to pin it on. You are the expert on public land grazing. I have forgotten more about health care policy then you will ever know. Are we even?

Nemont
 
Stoner for a guy who doesn't know what the LFP is or that anyone is drawing from it you're sure an exprt on every other aspect of agriculture.

They're scum because they're subsidized? your words not mine. I've collected a quarter million myself. it would be pretty hypocritical for me to say what you've suggested. and I did not say it.

One last time, read slow and understand. I support public grazing. I don't mind subsidizing it. all I ask in return is you and the Bundy's stop playing the victim and phuking it up for all of us. people like you are the problem not the solution. the more taxpayers who know the truth the sooner we see major changes. thanks a lot.













Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
A Quarter Million Huh?

You Paid any of it back?

Or will you ever pay any of it Back?





[font color="blue"]"I Don't get No Sleep!I Don't get No Peace!"
[/font]
 
Yeah right Tog and Nemo you guys really support public lands grazing. Every other word out of your collective mouths is "subsidized and cheap grazing". You go through the motions of saying you support public lands grazing but you spend a lot of time bitching about it and playing right into the hands of the eco freaks. You haven't convinced me.

I do have to agree with you Nemo you do know more about health care because that is your job and livelihood.

I do agree with you Tog, you know a lot about ripping off the taxpayer in a real big way. It sounds like we need a congressional investigation into the waste of taxpayer money supporting your private lands ranch. Way to go Dude you get er done! You must be real proud of yourself.
 
You still don't get it do you? subsidized grazing is EXACTLY like taking LFP or LDP payments, except it's only for the select few with an allotment. call it additional public support.

Why not call it what it is? you and you butt buds are the ones pushing it I everyone's face but we're not supposed to discuss the facts? your pathetic cries for attention and sympathy are the reason we're having this discussion here and nationally. what a dumbazz.

All it takes to learn how to get every penny uncle sam has to offer is a trip to your FSA office. it's their job to administer the farm bill programs. what I've done is exactly what the Hammonds and 99% of the rest of America's producers do . but according to Stoner I'm not supposed to be honest about it or I'm a hater and traitor.

Just calling it like it is stoner. real ranchers are hard working ,honest and love their country. that's how we do it in eastern Oregon and that's why your carpetbagger drug store cowboys weren't welcome here.













Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Stone

What you are to stupid to understand is that I can support the guys who graze public lands and still deal with facts. That doesn't make me a eco freak it makes me a conservative with a brain who has seen what Ag producer get from uncle sam. grazing is just one of a million benefits. it is your hero Lavoy who was pushing for turning over all public lands to the state. You claim to be against that but all your butt buddies you support want that and that makes you one of them. You can play broke back mountain together all you want but if public land grazing is so bad why don't any of them nut up and buy deeded land and get out from the tyranny?

It is because they are so used to having those public lands to treat as if they own them and don't want to risk the capital and join free market. You can make all the excuses in the world why that is so hard to so but if you are looking for sympathy it is between sh!t and syphilis in the dictionary

Nemont
 
Tog & Nemo,

You guys don't have a clue. You can't and haven't comprehended anything I have tried to tell you.

You guys have your simple minded ideas and don't even dig into the realm of what the public land is really all about and how it evolved into what it is today. They all have capital risked.

I am not for turning over the public land to the States but have tried to point out the real story on the ground what is happening with and what it takes to run a public lands ranch. They come in all sizes and shapes with some using only less than 5% of their total ranch in public land lease. A huge share of the west is made up of ranches with at least some State, BLM or Forest.

FSA has some good and needed soil conservation programs and some of the drought and disaster programs are probably needed but it sounds like it is a typical Government entity that enable a lot of waste and abuse. People are tired of the Feds and now it looks like many are so pissed off that they are voting for Trump. I think that is going to swing the pendulum too far the other way if he gets elected and will be worse that the transformation of the Obama Administration.

You both try to talk a good story about supporting and liking public lands ranchers but on every one of your posts you bad mouth them.

Go preach your hatred to the unsuspecting souls, and help out the CBD, Wildlife Federations, Western Watersheds and WildEarth Guardians. These yahoos are the real enemy of the rural Western US.

What ever Cliven, Lavoy and those boys did doesn't even make a drop in the bucket to the takeover of the public lands of the west than the above ecos terrorists.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-16 AT 02:00PM (MST)[p]You are the most clueless of all. We live on a representative republic. You keep on biting the hand of the land owner like you AR and you will figure out sooner rather than later that in a country of 320 million your 27,000 allotment holders don't have much sway. They need some allies and all you and your fellow ranchers claiming oppression are losing allies because of your support of guys like Lavoy and Clive.

So dont be surprised that when you really need people to step up nobody is there because of your continued playing the victim card. You should join Reverend Al for a march on Washington. You two have a lot in common.

Nemont
 
What ever Cliven, Lavoy and those boys did doesn't even make a drop in the bucket to the takeover of the public lands of the west than the above ecos terrorists.

Man, that's a fact.
 
That is some retarded logic.


Federal lands will remain federal lands. the land belongs to the nation and the vast majority of americans want it left just the way it is.


Huff and puff and hold your breath until you die see if anyone cares. nobody feels sorry for you.












Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-16 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]It's a whine bag game, they want more cattle out there on public land, the rancher pushing the sagebrush rebellion #2. The drillers want more freedom to do it, the rural counties want to be rich like the big cites but they don't want the crowds.

Some of these groups are trying to see the laws abided by. Not abused by some of the local ranchers and the county commissioners they control. Look at the Bundies

Repeat with me Stoney and Never forget this fact. Nevada's cattle numbers are 430 thousand give or take a few
thousand. Nevada's elk numbers 13 thousand, give or take a few hundred. Nevada's percentage of public land, 85%. Give or take a little.

The percentage of land in Nevada that's declining and or in poor condition is overwhelming and It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why.
 
You know Stoney, I don't mind grazing on public land, that's not the issue I have a problem with, it's the people behind this transfer movement that bother me. The Bundy types. Demar Dahl and the others. They want it all, greed and power.

You know the people, I'm quite sure.

Maybe 400 thousand cattle and 43 thousand elk would be a better number?
 
Our rural counties depend on livestock as their #1 economic driver and hunting, primarily elk, is #2. We want and need both. We have some of the finest managed forest in the west with the grazing programs and we also have some of the very best bug bull elk hunting anywhere. Catron County NM has way more elk than people and I think just as many elk as cattle. I guess you guys need some help up where you live to equal the balance and have better Agency management working with the livestock grazers to better the range, as well as a more proactive Game Dept.

What we don't need are knotheads like you and Tog and Nemo siding with the radical enviro's all the time.

The Mexican Gray Wolf program is not about the wolf. It is about the control of the land. Pretty darn simple to anybody with any sense. That damn sure leaves you out Piper. Go back and read your last two posts. Give me a break. How can you be so ignorant.

I don't know the Bundys and Dahl's but do know the Laneys, and the Hages but they darned sure aren't the problem. Guys like you are the problem for not worrying about the real enemy to the multiple use of our public land, the radical environmentalist.
 
Once again Stone you show how hopeless it is to even attempt to discuss an issue with a person like you who takes a page out of the Reverend Al Sheraton's "how to be a victim" book. Like every fake conservative out there you think we all need to say that public land grazers are next to god. They aren't
; nobody in America owes them anything. That is not an eco freak position. It is based on the solid conservative principle of paddling your own canoe and not taking from the treasury with both hands.

As long as you and Reverend Al are victims nobody needs to take either of you seriously. That to is also a conservative principle. You have been a fake conservative so long that you turned into what you claim to hate: a liberal socialist with more in common with the principle of victimhood rather than conservative principles.

Nemont
 
Tog & Nemo,

Give me a break. What a rediculous and desparate anology. Evidently the truth hurts.

Tog, for you to liken me Sharpton is really a far reach especially when you and him are two of a kind. You take a quarter of a million dollars from the taxpayers and Rev. Al takes four million.
 
You are the one who claims you are oppressed by the big bad government, just like Rev. Al. You whine that everyone else is getting to be hogs at the federal trough but you take with both hands, just like Rev. Al. You claim that government is in cahoots with your enemies and out to get you, just like Rev. Al. So the only difference between you and Rev. Al is that his wife is younger and darker. Otherwise you two are just different sides of the same coin.

Nemont
 
Stoner you blame Obama for everything but he did not sign the ESA into law Richard Nixon did. He did not sign the forest service travel plan either Bush did so quit blaming him for everything you do not like. Please tell me how much you have paid into social security and medicare. Look into and see why it will be going broke it is because you get much more than you put in kinda like welfare is it not?
 

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