The Forests Need to be Closed

C

caelkhnter

Very Active Member
Messages
1,526
So with the continuing warm, dry, windy weather, and with wild fires already happening, I would think the Forests need to be closed until the monsoons bring enough moisture to reduce the fire risks!

I know people have Turkey tags and the seasons start later this week, for the benefit of everyone, those tags need to be eaten and the Forests shut down to public access.

This is an extreme year, needing extreme measures to be taken.

At least that is one person's opinion.
 
I would hate to see them close during turkey season...but it does seem like everytime they should have closed the forest a big fire breaks out.
 
Why on earth would you want them closed? Those are public lands for all to enjoy we dont need big brother getting the idea so they can lock us all out. Most fires are not man made (unless you in southern california)
 
Well I beg to differ. I believe the large fires that get out of control are the man made fires. The Arizona forests are currently a tinderbox. There is no moisture in sight. The days are going to get warmer everyday. This is the windy time of year for the Arizona mountains. Other wild fires are already staring, earlier than normal, because of the extreme conditions.

Under these extreme and unusual conditions I want the forests to be closed so that we can get past these conditions and then have forests to enjoy in the future.
 
Again your intitled to your opinion but this is the start of fire season in az and nm.(meaning yes they are getting fires right now its normal for them) It always burns this time of year until the monsoons happen. Keeping people out will not stop that. Again the majority of fires in az and nm are not human caused. But what do I know I have only been fighting wildland fires for 19 years
 
They havent even put up fire restrictions yet...they should start with that but i would oppose banning access to the forests....
 
caelk...you must have drawn a tag this year with that comment...maybe you should eat your tag for the better of the elk...really
 
The fire risk is an annual event. Should we close the land for 4 - 7 months each year? That would reduce fire risk from people doing silly things but there are fires which start from lightning strikes and sunlight shining onto a clear glass bottle.

One approach is similar to rules about carrying chains on snowy roads or life preservers on boats but would apply to accessing lands during high fire risk. You are required to carry a certain number of gallons of water and a shovel.
 
It's always dry in Arizona. Usually they stop camp fires memorial day every year. I would think this year would be no different. As has been said most fires are not man made here. I just drove through the north Kaibab and fire danger is low there now. The strip is not too bad either. Some places around flag look pretty bad, but SE of flag it's green and the tanks are full. We had record rain during July and all through summer we picked up a bunch. The elk were scattered all over because of it. That moisture is carrying over. We have had a drier winter then normal, but it's not that bad. If we get a couple rains in April and May we will be in good shape.
 
First, yes I have an 11M archery bull tag.

No my post has nothing to do with drawing that tag.

I am from Arizona and own a cabin outside of Flagstaff. That is the reason I am sensitive about the fire danger.

I believe the fire danger conditions this year are much greater than the normal year. That is another reason I made my post.

I seem to recall the Rodeo-Cheduski fire, one of the largest in Az history was man made.

A couple of years back a forest service employee reported to me that human caused fires are the ones that most often get out of control because no one is on alert for those, as is the case when you have lightening struck caused fires.

Finally I recall years when they have closed the forest down in June. I think conditions are much worse this year than those years.

Maybe I am wrong, but I would rather that the forest be shut down, than not, and be proved right.
 
I think I agree with you ca. It might be a good idea, it seems every year there are worse and worse fires caused by humans. We are not talking about a full and absolute closure, just until conditions are suitable. To me, that seems reasonable.
I will admit I am kind of biased, I am more of a Desert person.
 
Why don't we just ban all fires right from the get go and fine the hell out of those who abuse the restrictions for a change. This isn't going to be the first year we've seen things so dry and it won't be the last. The lakes are below normal and you can't keep folks bottled up until monsoon season. Folks want to go out and camp and they can do that without a campfire and with enforced restrictions. We don't shut down the cabin community's to all access during dry season and they live with fire danger every day. The forest service just needs to man up and impose restrictions & ENFORCE THEM right out of the chute in spite of public pressure. WE have to learn to live with natures conditions and cold camps are part of that process when necessary.
 
The problem I see if they close them for a fire season, what's to stop them from closing them later for the same reason, fires happens all the time, sometimes late fall.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
I am getting sick and tired of the government over reach in this country. 1.Forest service shut down many roads that have been open for years. 2. Designated camp spots within 30' of certain roads. 3. No off road game retrieval on certain forests. 4. They were going to impound travel trailers after 24 hours, saying they were abandoned. This is until Senator McCain and others got involved. 5. Now I hear they want to stop recreational shooting in our forests. 6. Not to mention the wolves they want to put in.
They would love nothing more than to shut down the forests and not allow anyone in. People better wake up and pay attention. Look at what has happened in Nevada with the Bundy's it is happening everywhere.
 
Shut the forest down and let everybody with turkey tags eat there tag??? Most ridiculous thing I've heard. I have a 11 yr old and a 13 yr old that I'm taking turkey hunting this weekend and you want them to have no experience? Unreal! How about you eat your elk tag and see how you like it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-14 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]It's funny how all the tourists with their "cabins" think they know best...I believe the forest service needs to impose fire restrictions soon (The city of Flagstaff announced they are going to impose restrictions Friday) and I'm sure the forest service will be quick to follow.
We have survived many years of drought and gotten through drier times (than we are looking at right at this time) and been fine with fire restrictions. Seeing that we had a few inches of snow a couple weeks ago I think we have some time before we need to be banned from enjoying OUR forests!
Not everyone has the luxury of owning a cabin they will still be allowed to go to so maybe try thinking about them as well ca elky!
That being said I do believe we will see forest closures this year unless we see significant early moisture, but now just isn't that time!
 
I vote we close the border to dorks from California that stopped all logging then built there cabins in the middle of a bunch of dead bark beetle trees. Or maybe allow us a free tag for any human we see leaving a fire unattended. I will be hunting turkey in unit 1 whether it is closed or not and we never have a campfire when it is dry. It is amazing some of the stuff I read on these sites.
 
Wow pretty interesting how someone can post an opinion and then draw such personal attacks.

Sure you might disagree with my opinion, and I respect your right to do so, but to make personal attacks simply because you disagree, interesting.

In any event, I continue to believe the extreme fire danger risks that are currently present warrant extreme action. Fine many of you disagree, as long as no action is taken I hope my concerns are for naught and you naysayers are correct.

Final note, Brown fire currently 400 acres and 0% containment.
 
caelk,
Have you ever heard the facts that a forest fire is actually healthy for a forest, why do you think the forest service lets some fires burn. Years ago there was a fire on A-1 mountain in 11M (your unit) and the elk are thick and thrive in it, you could hunt there but I guess that would be against your thought process. As far as the Rodeo-Chediski fire it was caused by an unemployed tribal firefighter trying to get work and the current Fisher fire was caused by transients, so I guess closing the forests would have kept them out.
 
we'll have natural fires no matter what

educating people is the best way to prevent accidental fires in our forests -

Shuting down the forests is not the answer -

The possibility of banning all fires is a solution but will not solve the problem either.

In my opinion you are wrong - no matter your experience!
 
Yes surprisingly I have heard of facts, have posted quite a few already. Be that as it may, if it is your view having people camp on the forest presents no serious risks, based on the current forest conditions, so be it. I continue to disagree, and have not been presented with any fact to the contrary.
 
Sorry CA, I just don't agree with that way of thinking. I'm tired of the Govt telling us what we can or can't do. Restricting fires is bad enough in my opinion. I am responsible and I have never caused a fire but I have to be punished because a few are not.

When I hear of this kind of thinking it reminds me of anti-gun campaign. Maybe we should ban all guns next time a crazy person goes on a killing spree? Obviously we should punish everyone for the actions of a few because according to your way of thinking we should ban everyone.

A few years ago my wife and kicked around the idea of buying a cabin. Part of our discussion was fires and the inherent risk that are involved with owning a home in the forest. This includeded natural and man-made fires. There have alwyas been fires and there will always be fires.

When does individual rights and reponsiblity kick in? Hold individuals reponsible for their actions not the entire country. Sorry but we will just have to agree to disagree.

Good Hunting
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-14 AT 10:09PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-14 AT 09:19?PM (MST)

Ok I understand we disagree.

A couple of thoughts. I too do not generally like the government dictating what we can and can't do. However sometimes, for the benefit of all, it is the only way to effectively manage certain issues.

To suggest we should just have rules and hold the people who fail to comply accountable, in general makes sense, but in reality does not always work. Say someone negligently causes a wild fire which burns up 500,000 acres. How can that person ever be held accountable for the loss of 500,000 acres of forest ? Everyone who loves to camp, hunt, hike, fish, etc. will have lost that forest for many years. The person who caused it will never effectively be held responsible, they can't replace it.

How about the risk of human lives? So someone is forced to eat a couple of turkey tags in a year with extreme fire conditions. I seemed to recall 19 Arizona wild land hotshot fire crew members from Prescott lost their lives fighting a wild fire last year. There is truly more at stake than the loss of the forest. In my opinion, a few eaten turkey tags, or a few cancelled camping trips, is a small price to pay, for a closure until conditions improve.

Anyway, I understand we disagree.

Good hunting to all.
 
And kids died at Newtown so what is your point. Mommy can't make you 100% safe no matter how much you want that. I think there is a decent balance now between liberty and safety and you can't stop lightning.
 
Campfire and smoking restrictions go into effect this Good Friday April 18th on the Kaibab, Coconino, Prescott and Tonto National Forests.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/prescott/news-events/?cid=STELPRD3796618

http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/kaibab/alerts-notices/?aid=22365

http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/coconino/alerts-notices



You are welcome to visit my Photo Gallery here http://www.plateaulightphotography.com/
The-Wave-9-15-10edited_210.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-14
>AT 10:09?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-14
>AT 09:19?PM (MST)
>
>Ok I understand we disagree.
>
>A couple of thoughts. I too
>do not generally like the
>government dictating what we can
>and can't do. However sometimes,
>for the benefit of all,
>it is the only way
>to effectively manage certain issues.
>
>
>To suggest we should just have
>rules and hold the people
>who fail to comply accountable,
>in general makes sense, but
>in reality does not always
>work. Say someone negligently causes
>a wild fire which burns
>up 500,000 acres. How can
>that person ever be held
>accountable for the loss of
>500,000 acres of forest ?
>Everyone who loves to camp,
>hunt, hike, fish, etc. will
>have lost that forest for
>many years. The person who
>caused it will never effectively
>be held responsible, they can't
>replace it.
>
>How about the risk of human
>lives? So someone is forced
>to eat a couple of
>turkey tags in a year
>with extreme fire conditions. I
>seemed to recall 19 Arizona
>wild land hotshot fire crew
>members from Prescott lost their
>lives fighting a wild fire
>last year. There is truly
>more at stake than the
>loss of the forest. In
>my opinion, a few eaten
>turkey tags, or a few
>cancelled camping trips, is a
>small price to pay, for
>a closure until conditions improve.
>
>
>Anyway, I understand we disagree.
>
>Good hunting to all.

CAelk...if you were an elk...you'd be a tule. Firefighters and police and all the others put themselves on the line everyday, if they were too worried about dying they should find another job, but I guess in today's world being a school teacher isn't even safe.
 
It is interesting and disappointing to see such personal pot shots made just because I express an opinion to which you, and apparently most others disagree.

I suppose it does not help when my moniker is CAelkhnter. So without knowing anything about me I am relegated to being a tourist making unsolicited comments about what Arizona should do. Perhaps my opinion would not have received such hostile response if my moniker was AZelkhnter. However I do not consider myself a mere intermingling tourist when I was raised, went to grade(Joseph Zito), Junior High, (Frank Borman), high school, (Maryvale), college and grad school,(ASU), in Arizona. My best friends and most of my close relatives live in Arizona. I own a cabin and spend a fair amount of time in Arizona.

I am a tool because I do not understand or appreciate the thoughts, concerns and feelings of fireman. Yet you make such snide comments without knowing anything about me. Like the fact that I know and am friends with many Arizona fireman. In fact my life long best friend is a retired Phoenix fireman who has, and continues to fight wild fires in the summer fire seasons. Moreover my best friend's son is an Arizona fireman, who is extensively involved with fighting wild fires throughout the west, and works with and trains hot shot crews. He personally knew and had the compassion to speak with many of the family members of the 19 hot shot crew that lost their lives last year.

The fact is you know nothing about me. I enjoy this website because it gives fellow hunters the opportunity to express and share ideas and experiences. I have actually made good friends on this site. In theory we share many of the same beliefs and morales.

I avoid engaging in personal attacks, because I do not think such tactics advances our community of hunters. We face enough unjustified and unfair attacks from the anti-hunting crowd. We need not self destruct from within.

In any event, you disagree, so be it. Good luck on your hunting adventures.
 
well Maryvale high says it all - nothing but trouble makers from guys .

I grew up right in the middle so to speak - Maryvale Glendale -Alhambra

maryvale guys always took extra steps to make sure their opinions were heard - lol

never could get them to just forget it and move on - no matter the topic
 
MuleyManiac, probably first intelligent post on this thread so far! Proud member of the Class of '76! You know I can't believe how much has changed in the neighborhood since I grew up there.
 
Ca elky thanks for clarifying that u have deep roots and know so many people in Arizona and I'm sorry if I offended you...That being said, I still think your idea of closing our forests right now is absurd!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-14 AT 06:24PM (MST)[p]I remember standing in the black river fishing the day before the willow fire within 2 miles of where the first fire started. It was windy as hell and drier than a popcorn fart out there. We stood there thinking that it won't be long now cause the forest will be shut down any moment. That night we went to bed a we could see a couple fires across the canyon and the wind was still howling. We hiked back into the canyon early the next morning and soon after saw a plume of smoke not more than 2 or 3 miles away. We lost so much in that fire fishing wise, forget about the bulls. The river is close to sterile now. I wish they would have closed the forest that summer, and i would have been pissed because of it, but at least there would still be fish alive. I used to get pissed about closures, but now i sit back and think of the bigger picture. Who knows when the right time is to close the forest , it's basically a guess, and everyone will never agree with the timing of closures. I think ca brings up a valid point, and more of a question i ask myself at times when it's so dry.. Good post , and food for thought!!
 
the last thing we need is gates at every entrance to OUR LAND

that is the only possible way they nf can guarantee the forest is shut down / closed - think about that for a minute!

what about the people who live out there in remore areas - will they be denied entrance to there own land / homes

sorry but its a stupid idea even though fires are a catastrophe to land and lives and our forests

shutting it down is not the answer

STOPPING stupid people is - I'd be for NO FIRES period during the dry months
 
I took my son and nephew jr turkey hunting and they had a blast. Unfortunately my son rolled a nice Tom but the bird gathered himself and flew off. The memories and experience they gained was huge. They can't wait to go back up. I couldn't imagine them eating there tags and not getting this experience. The smiles on there faces when the toms gobbled was priceless. Although the fire restriction wasn't enforced until after we got up there we still used a propane fire ring that I bought at cotsco.
 
Don't want hijack thread but CA do you know Marvin Zeiser? He is Maryvale class of 78. My best friend is married to Karen Parinello who I believe graduated in 76. She had a bunch of brothers and sisters that went to school there.

I am still against anything that keeps law-abiding Americans of of public land.
 
Human caused often has nothing to do with campers or hunters. How many of our fires in southern AZ have been started by illegal aliens? People working around their own property? Closing the forests to hunters wouldn't have stopped a single one of those. I'm all for common sense being applied but it doesn't always have to be closure. I watched forest service "law enforcement" drive right past 3 camps with open campfires this weekend and not stop at ANY of them..... This was just south of Young and fire restrictions are in place. Wish I had thought to get a truck number. Restrictions do nothing without enforcement.
 

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

31E00FB5-3E86-47EA-A1CE-8D34CFB03D04.jpeg
86EE608F-DFEC-4D23-A4AA-CDD51FD8034E.jpeg
D7ABA35A-F9A3-4AC6-8D5C-674E453F949D.jpeg
Buck's 2023 Muley
Mike's '23 Muley.jpg
My '23 Muley Pack Out.jpg
20210727_112217.jpg
2006 blacktail.jpg
10916B55-B3E6-4049-8D66-8259E4C90051.jpeg
Screenshot_20210329-204827~2.png
D42EB438-0C76-41A6-A084-7760060CA12D.jpeg
20210727_112152.jpg

Arizona Hunting Guides & Outfitters

SilverGrand Outfitters

Offering mule deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep, javelina, and turkey hunts in Nevada and Arizona.

Arizona Elk Outfitters

Offering the serious hunter a chance to hunt trophy animals in the great Southwest.

A3 Trophy Hunts

An Arizona Outfitter specializing in the harvest of World Class big game of all species.

Arizona Strip Guides

Highly experienced and highly dedicated team of hardworking professional Arizona Strip mule deer guides.

Urge 2 Hunt

THE premier hunts in Arizona for trophy elk, mule deer, couse deer and javelina.

Shadow Valley Outfitters

AZ Strip and Kaibab mule deer, big bulls during the rut, spot-n-stalk pronghorn and coues deer hunts.

Back
Top Bottom