oldmossback
Moderator
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- 1,123
Well, I was the 6th guy in line got to the counter at 9:11 am and all 5 of my choices were sold out.. Oh well .
How did everyone else's experience go?
How did everyone else's experience go?
The Leftover experiance......
- Thread starter oldmossback
- Start date
crownroyal
Active Member
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- 150
What were your 5 choices???
camo_deerslayer
Active Member
- Messages
- 104
What a joke!! CDOW continually finds new ways to hack me off.
Why not allow online sales at the same time as phone and walk-in? Why not give the "premium" tags that were turned back in to the people with enough minimum points to draw them and then take their points? I'd sign up for that...
Instead... they hand out tags people wait 15 years for to somebody who can afford to sit in line for two days and then not not take their points. So, the points creep continues...
Frustrated...
Why not allow online sales at the same time as phone and walk-in? Why not give the "premium" tags that were turned back in to the people with enough minimum points to draw them and then take their points? I'd sign up for that...
Instead... they hand out tags people wait 15 years for to somebody who can afford to sit in line for two days and then not not take their points. So, the points creep continues...
Frustrated...
oldmossback
Moderator
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- 1,123
No. But the guy in front of me got the unit 44 early buck tag.
My 5 choices were nothing spectacular. I was trying to get a 3rd season buck tag so I could hunt with my son. There were 8 tags available. other than that just random muzzleloader Bull tags
My 5 choices were nothing spectacular. I was trying to get a 3rd season buck tag so I could hunt with my son. There were 8 tags available. other than that just random muzzleloader Bull tags
COLOelkman
Very Active Member
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- 1,039
I agree with Camo that the new system is not fair to those that have waited many years for a coveted tag, only to find out some will now go to people without even having to use points.
I waited for an hour for a doe tag that had like 150 available but they sold out before they got to me. So not a big deal for me but it does seem like they'd come up with a better system. The new process has some primo tags given to people with no points burn and only waited a few hours in line where people have waited 10, 15 or 20 years to draw the tag!
Had I realized that before this morning, I'd have been in line before the stores opened!
I waited for an hour for a doe tag that had like 150 available but they sold out before they got to me. So not a big deal for me but it does seem like they'd come up with a better system. The new process has some primo tags given to people with no points burn and only waited a few hours in line where people have waited 10, 15 or 20 years to draw the tag!
Had I realized that before this morning, I'd have been in line before the stores opened!
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,563
>Has anyone been able to use
>the phone system? I keep
>getting same old recording,it ask
>for credit card number then
>says try back later, what
>a big joke this is.
>
surely ye jest. I just keep getting a busy signal. There should not be a recording asking for your CC number.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
>the phone system? I keep
>getting same old recording,it ask
>for credit card number then
>says try back later, what
>a big joke this is.
>
surely ye jest. I just keep getting a busy signal. There should not be a recording asking for your CC number.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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- 8,563
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-16 AT 12:40PM (MST)[p]300, the early rifle timberline unit 74 buck tag went to a friend of mine in Durango at 9:00.01
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
ORIONTHEHUNTER
Very Active Member
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- 1,567
I doubt that considering your buddy was 5th in line it was after 9:00 by a few minutes
tailchasers
Long Time Member
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- 5,312
Many may not like the newest system with these leftover tags but it's a dam site better than what it was before when all these "premium" tags were not reissued. At least they are going back to the people.
"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
elks96
Long Time Member
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- 3,802
LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-16 AT 11:56PM (MST)[p]I was in line for 19 hours had my tag picked out and got my tag! A good deer tag but not the best!
I am pretty certain that if the CPW sent everyone a cabelas gift card there would still be whiners!
The truth is simple! The left over draw this year occurred exactly in the same damn manner it has since the late 90s. Every year there are always a few who whine and complain about wait times or long lines but the system if ran as designed is fair and gives everyone a shot at the tags! I especially like that the first come first serve option gives the most dedicated a better chance! I remember in the late 90s early 2000 standing in line at the Ft. Collins office with my buddy my girlfriend and about 300+ other people for the left over! We all drew numbers and the one with the lowest tag bought for all 3 people! I drew number 196, my buddy drew 300 something and my girlfriend drew 7. Needless to say all 3 got cow tags and doe tags!
As far as the top point holders! They had their chance! Infact a top point holder drew the damn tag and chose to dump it! Why not let all us bums have a shot? I say this having enough points for deer and elk to honestly be the next person in line!
I will also,point out all you saying why not online! Well I will say for 2 reasons! 1 the computers would crash! I am sorry but can you imagine if everything person who did not have a tag tried access the Internet at the same time to the same page? Sorry but we are talking potentially over 100,000 people possible!
Also even with the lic vendor you have nearly impossible odds at anything great! I look at deer and there were maybe 20 better than 1 point tags on the list and only a couple that took several or more point! I mean seriously there were potentially a couple thousand people who hit the system in the first 10 minutes! Even online with everyone, only 8 guys out of a couple thousand would get the 22 tags! 1 guy out of a couple thousand would get the 2 or 201 tag...
Only 1 guy out of a couple thousand got the 76 tag!
Nothing would be better than Colorado dumping the points system all together becuase it will only drive up creep and eventually all tags will only go to old guys!
I so wished my daughter and son could have applied! I would give anything for them to hunt the unit I and they have grown up in! As things are headed they will be well into college before they have enough points! With the leftover atleast they have a chance!
I will add that this new system gave me my second tag in 13 years as I build points! I am so ver y happy to have a decent deer tag, in my favorite unit in the state!
We all knew the process, we all knew the rules, we all had a chance! Some of us manned up and did everything we could in order to increase our odds! I visited 4 different tag vendors! I asked the management/owner about how things will run in the morning! I picked out my A plan and B plan for options! When I was able to head to sit in my spot, I called my a vendor and there was already 2 sitting in line
, so then I called B and they laughed not believing anyone would be dumb enough to sit that long! At 3:00 pm Monday I had my chair set up and cooler with snacks and dinner!
I was into and out of the computer with License printed and paid for by 9:06. The next person line missed on everything decent and got a "normal" left over tag!
If I had not drawn after sitting some 19 hours I would have still been happy! Hell I have not had any chance at a decent CO tag for 14 years as I built points now and all the sudden one little change to policy gave all of us a chance to get some incredible tags! Why would anyone complain? I mean the top point hold who was next in line had a shot to draw the tag they waited 10+ years for as well,without cashing points! Hell maybe one of the top point holders was lucky enough to draw the left over tag and next will repeat and get the same tag with points! What could be better than having a tag one year and then bam having it again the next?
The only person I all of this that should be upset is the poor guy who actually drew a tag and had to turn it in!
I am pretty certain that if the CPW sent everyone a cabelas gift card there would still be whiners!
The truth is simple! The left over draw this year occurred exactly in the same damn manner it has since the late 90s. Every year there are always a few who whine and complain about wait times or long lines but the system if ran as designed is fair and gives everyone a shot at the tags! I especially like that the first come first serve option gives the most dedicated a better chance! I remember in the late 90s early 2000 standing in line at the Ft. Collins office with my buddy my girlfriend and about 300+ other people for the left over! We all drew numbers and the one with the lowest tag bought for all 3 people! I drew number 196, my buddy drew 300 something and my girlfriend drew 7. Needless to say all 3 got cow tags and doe tags!
As far as the top point holders! They had their chance! Infact a top point holder drew the damn tag and chose to dump it! Why not let all us bums have a shot? I say this having enough points for deer and elk to honestly be the next person in line!
I will also,point out all you saying why not online! Well I will say for 2 reasons! 1 the computers would crash! I am sorry but can you imagine if everything person who did not have a tag tried access the Internet at the same time to the same page? Sorry but we are talking potentially over 100,000 people possible!
Also even with the lic vendor you have nearly impossible odds at anything great! I look at deer and there were maybe 20 better than 1 point tags on the list and only a couple that took several or more point! I mean seriously there were potentially a couple thousand people who hit the system in the first 10 minutes! Even online with everyone, only 8 guys out of a couple thousand would get the 22 tags! 1 guy out of a couple thousand would get the 2 or 201 tag...
Only 1 guy out of a couple thousand got the 76 tag!
Nothing would be better than Colorado dumping the points system all together becuase it will only drive up creep and eventually all tags will only go to old guys!
I so wished my daughter and son could have applied! I would give anything for them to hunt the unit I and they have grown up in! As things are headed they will be well into college before they have enough points! With the leftover atleast they have a chance!
I will add that this new system gave me my second tag in 13 years as I build points! I am so ver y happy to have a decent deer tag, in my favorite unit in the state!
We all knew the process, we all knew the rules, we all had a chance! Some of us manned up and did everything we could in order to increase our odds! I visited 4 different tag vendors! I asked the management/owner about how things will run in the morning! I picked out my A plan and B plan for options! When I was able to head to sit in my spot, I called my a vendor and there was already 2 sitting in line
, so then I called B and they laughed not believing anyone would be dumb enough to sit that long! At 3:00 pm Monday I had my chair set up and cooler with snacks and dinner!
I was into and out of the computer with License printed and paid for by 9:06. The next person line missed on everything decent and got a "normal" left over tag!
If I had not drawn after sitting some 19 hours I would have still been happy! Hell I have not had any chance at a decent CO tag for 14 years as I built points now and all the sudden one little change to policy gave all of us a chance to get some incredible tags! Why would anyone complain? I mean the top point hold who was next in line had a shot to draw the tag they waited 10+ years for as well,without cashing points! Hell maybe one of the top point holders was lucky enough to draw the left over tag and next will repeat and get the same tag with points! What could be better than having a tag one year and then bam having it again the next?
The only person I all of this that should be upset is the poor guy who actually drew a tag and had to turn it in!
elks96
Long Time Member
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- 3,802
>No. But the guy in front
>of me got the unit
>44 early buck tag.
> My 5 choices were nothing
>spectacular. I was trying to
>get a 3rd season buck
>tag so I could hunt
>with my son. There were
>8 tags available. other than
>that just random muzzleloader Bull
>tags
Point creep will never be fixed no matter what! Sorry but one tag for unit 76 and a couple for 61 or 62 will not change anything! Also the very top tags which have the hybrid draw are going to next in line! Also you had every chance to sit in line and wait for a chance! It was your choice to sit or not sit! What if you were one of the top point holders and just missed the tag, but suddenly got in line and drew the tag off left overM how awesome would it be to have back to back top tags? Would you complain then about the system?
You had a chance just like everyone else!
>of me got the unit
>44 early buck tag.
> My 5 choices were nothing
>spectacular. I was trying to
>get a 3rd season buck
>tag so I could hunt
>with my son. There were
>8 tags available. other than
>that just random muzzleloader Bull
>tags
Point creep will never be fixed no matter what! Sorry but one tag for unit 76 and a couple for 61 or 62 will not change anything! Also the very top tags which have the hybrid draw are going to next in line! Also you had every chance to sit in line and wait for a chance! It was your choice to sit or not sit! What if you were one of the top point holders and just missed the tag, but suddenly got in line and drew the tag off left overM how awesome would it be to have back to back top tags? Would you complain then about the system?
You had a chance just like everyone else!
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,563
>I doubt that considering your buddy
>was 5th in line it
>was after 9:00 by a
>few minute
You are right about that. There were 4 agents, so he got to the counter around 9:05. Couldn't believe the tag was still available then, but he got lucky
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
>was 5th in line it
>was after 9:00 by a
>few minute
You are right about that. There were 4 agents, so he got to the counter around 9:05. Couldn't believe the tag was still available then, but he got lucky
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
oldmossback
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,123
I agree elks96. There will always be whiners. Cant please everyone all the time. It is , what it is. Most people who are whining either don't understand the system or waited till the last second anyway.
Only one thing about the process irked me and it had nothing to do with the DOW. There was a guy in front of me who was attempting to get licenses for about 6 different out of state people who each had about 5 choices of tags they were trying for. This one fellow was at the counter for 20 min. My solution is. You can only try to get tags for yourself and you are limited to your first 3 choices per species. It is not right to hold up the line at the counter or the phone line trying to get tags for everyone you have ever known and or going through the regs line by line asking if there are any tags left. Be prepared ahead of time.
Only one thing about the process irked me and it had nothing to do with the DOW. There was a guy in front of me who was attempting to get licenses for about 6 different out of state people who each had about 5 choices of tags they were trying for. This one fellow was at the counter for 20 min. My solution is. You can only try to get tags for yourself and you are limited to your first 3 choices per species. It is not right to hold up the line at the counter or the phone line trying to get tags for everyone you have ever known and or going through the regs line by line asking if there are any tags left. Be prepared ahead of time.
nripepi
Very Active Member
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- 2,113
elks96,
Super happy for you and others who got good tags without using points and it does sound like fun to sit in-line and try, especially when you win!
I doubt this will continue in the future as many are upset that these amazing tags went to people without using points which may not have a significant effect on point creep, but you cannot argue that it doesn't have some effect. There will be more great bucks and bulls killed because of this policy change which should reduce the amount of tags offered in the future (if you want the same quality) without using points. It is a double whammy of sorts. As you noted, it might not be significant at all, but it is definitely real, especially for these primo tags (elk 76, 61 and deer 74, 67 4th....).
If you were next in line and willing to use your points and applied and tried to use your points and draw that tag, you would probably feel differently, especially if you had to work and couldn't sit in line for 19 hours!
We will see what happens in the future.
Best of luck on your hunt.
Super happy for you and others who got good tags without using points and it does sound like fun to sit in-line and try, especially when you win!
I doubt this will continue in the future as many are upset that these amazing tags went to people without using points which may not have a significant effect on point creep, but you cannot argue that it doesn't have some effect. There will be more great bucks and bulls killed because of this policy change which should reduce the amount of tags offered in the future (if you want the same quality) without using points. It is a double whammy of sorts. As you noted, it might not be significant at all, but it is definitely real, especially for these primo tags (elk 76, 61 and deer 74, 67 4th....).
If you were next in line and willing to use your points and applied and tried to use your points and draw that tag, you would probably feel differently, especially if you had to work and couldn't sit in line for 19 hours!
We will see what happens in the future.
Best of luck on your hunt.
oldmossback
Moderator
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- 1,123
nripepi, remember there will be no more great bucks and bulls killed this year then originally planned as these are not ADDITIONAL tags. They are tags that someone drew in the first draw and for whatever reason could not go and turned the tag back in.
Also , no one knows if you were or would have been next in line for a tag. Yes they could have a last minute draw 30 days before the season of all the tags that have been turned back in but by that time most hunters would have acquired other tags and scouted their areas. Likewise I would not be willing to burn all my points with less than a month to scout.
As for Having to work and could not sit in line. We all knew the date well in advance, Take a vacation day, call in sick, quit, whatever. your priorities are your own. Its not like they are going to move the "on sale " date to a sat or sunday.
Also , no one knows if you were or would have been next in line for a tag. Yes they could have a last minute draw 30 days before the season of all the tags that have been turned back in but by that time most hunters would have acquired other tags and scouted their areas. Likewise I would not be willing to burn all my points with less than a month to scout.
As for Having to work and could not sit in line. We all knew the date well in advance, Take a vacation day, call in sick, quit, whatever. your priorities are your own. Its not like they are going to move the "on sale " date to a sat or sunday.
elks96
Long Time Member
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- 3,802
Nripreli,
Again I would argue the top point holders had the chance! Infact the tag went to a top point holder. A tag that I, my wife, my kids, my father, and thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands had no chance at! So the tag went where it was intended! It is too bad for the guys who had to return the tag, but honestly why not let the tag roll into the lottery?
As for the guys who had to work... Well they have choices to make and sacrifices that will have to be made! It is a matter of priorities. I saw where a group from out of state drove to CO and camped in line for long than me! They all made a choice and a sacrifice to have the best chance they could!
As far as the idea that the tags will decrease quality! Totally false the CPW assumes that those tags will be filled! They have no way of knowing which if any tags will be returned. There might be a general trend, but they have to assume that all tags offered, atleast those in great units will be filed in some way. So my taking of a tag has not changed the overall chances of that tag being filled.
Again there is no fix to point creep in the current situation and no matter how you attempt to fix it, it will screw a major group of hunters in one form or another! The best thing to fix creep it to get rid of points and go back to random draw and let everyone have an equal chance while playing and figuring the Odds!
Also as mentioned would you be willing to turn in all your points on a OIL tag with less than 30 days to scout? Also you are assuming that those next in line guys would also not have any other plans or tags they have to consider.
Again I would point out that the guy with a ton of points had a chance to get the tag. If you had max points and no tag you could have also gotten any tag on that list, just had to try!
Again I would argue the top point holders had the chance! Infact the tag went to a top point holder. A tag that I, my wife, my kids, my father, and thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands had no chance at! So the tag went where it was intended! It is too bad for the guys who had to return the tag, but honestly why not let the tag roll into the lottery?
As for the guys who had to work... Well they have choices to make and sacrifices that will have to be made! It is a matter of priorities. I saw where a group from out of state drove to CO and camped in line for long than me! They all made a choice and a sacrifice to have the best chance they could!
As far as the idea that the tags will decrease quality! Totally false the CPW assumes that those tags will be filled! They have no way of knowing which if any tags will be returned. There might be a general trend, but they have to assume that all tags offered, atleast those in great units will be filed in some way. So my taking of a tag has not changed the overall chances of that tag being filled.
Again there is no fix to point creep in the current situation and no matter how you attempt to fix it, it will screw a major group of hunters in one form or another! The best thing to fix creep it to get rid of points and go back to random draw and let everyone have an equal chance while playing and figuring the Odds!
Also as mentioned would you be willing to turn in all your points on a OIL tag with less than 30 days to scout? Also you are assuming that those next in line guys would also not have any other plans or tags they have to consider.
Again I would point out that the guy with a ton of points had a chance to get the tag. If you had max points and no tag you could have also gotten any tag on that list, just had to try!
some years I don't get the tag I want, this year I did.
However there is no perfect system, always going to be someone who feels they are the one that deserves the tag over someone else. Each state has their own process, they all have pros and cons.
I am just happy I had an opportunity to get a tag that I didn't draw.
Now I get to hunt with my Dad and buddies, was going anyway but now I have tag too.
There are not enough tags to go around nor will there ever be enough to go around, most will not get what they want no matter how you slice the pie.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
However there is no perfect system, always going to be someone who feels they are the one that deserves the tag over someone else. Each state has their own process, they all have pros and cons.
I am just happy I had an opportunity to get a tag that I didn't draw.
Now I get to hunt with my Dad and buddies, was going anyway but now I have tag too.
There are not enough tags to go around nor will there ever be enough to go around, most will not get what they want no matter how you slice the pie.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
I am glad that tags that used to go unused are now being issued and good luck to those that "retagged" on Tuesday. As with the 1st try of any new system, CPW found lots of "learning opportunities:" snafus, mistakes, complaints. Things can improve if we provide feedback to CPW through round tables, Commission reps, etc. Remember, CPW pays more attention to big, unified voices than to 5000 separate emails or phone calls. I encourage CPW to take a satisfaction survey of those who participated in the reissue/leftover process, and make it BETTER for next year.
FrontRange
Active Member
- Messages
- 352
Elks96
I don't follow you when you say the top point guys had their chance. The top point holders could draw any tag so there is no "chance" involved. It's the guys that missed out on a long awaited tag by perhaps 1 pp that got the raw end of the deal with the new process. As far as adding to the point creep? Hell yea it add's to the point creep, that guy that missed drawing the premium tag by 1 pp will apply next year thus reducing someone else's chances. If the CPOW followed a next in line process requiring the use of pp's,that guy that missed by 1 pp might be out of the premium tag pool next season. I drew a premium tag this year using 12 resident points, I'm going to be upset if someone camps next to me and says he used zero points to draw and that he has enough points to draw again next year which reduces my hunting partner's chance.
I don't follow you when you say the top point guys had their chance. The top point holders could draw any tag so there is no "chance" involved. It's the guys that missed out on a long awaited tag by perhaps 1 pp that got the raw end of the deal with the new process. As far as adding to the point creep? Hell yea it add's to the point creep, that guy that missed drawing the premium tag by 1 pp will apply next year thus reducing someone else's chances. If the CPOW followed a next in line process requiring the use of pp's,that guy that missed by 1 pp might be out of the premium tag pool next season. I drew a premium tag this year using 12 resident points, I'm going to be upset if someone camps next to me and says he used zero points to draw and that he has enough points to draw again next year which reduces my hunting partner's chance.
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,802
>Elks96
>
>I don't follow you when you
>say the top point guys
>had their chance. The top
>point holders could draw any
>tag so there is no
>"chance" involved. It's the guys
>that missed out on a
>long awaited tag by perhaps
>1 pp that got the
>raw end of the deal
>with the new process. As
>far as adding to the
>point creep? Hell yea it
>add's to the point creep,
>that guy that missed drawing
>the premium tag by 1
>pp will apply next year
>thus reducing someone else's chances.
> If the CPOW followed
>a next in line process
>requiring the use of pp's,that
>guy that missed by 1
>pp might be out of
>the premium tag pool next
>season. I drew a premium
>tag this year using 12
>resident points, I'm going to
>be upset if someone camps
>next to me and says
>he used zero points to
>draw and that he has
>enough points to draw again
>next year which reduces my
>hunting partner's chance.
How simple can I put it? The guy next in line had a chance to get the tag. All he had to do was wait at a vendor and get lucky at the machine.
Why do you deserve that tag more than anyone else? Why does your age or time you have been hunting put you as more important and deserving than a 12 year old, kid or a 30 something women who are just starting to hunt? I would love to be camped next to you and say I got this tag with no points at all... Hell if I ever get the governors tag for a small raffle fee and points then I will be sure to let you know because obviously I would not deserve such a tag because I have not done exactly what you have done.
Sorry but even if the doubled the number of premium tags it would only slow Point creep a little and in a few years it would be right back at the current rate or faster. IN about 5 years point creep will get so bad you will wonder how you will ever get another tag. There is such a huge pool of hunters in the 10 to point range that even the lowest units are getting primed to jump more than we have seen.
So please tell me how the one unit 2 deer tag would have changed the point creep? Or how 8 unit 22 deer tags would have changed point creep or... Sorry there simply were not enough tags to make any sort of statistical difference.
The bigger problem I have is the attitude that you are owed the tag because you are obviously better than everyone else due to your points. Sorry but the wildlife belongs to all of us and no one should have any preference.
>
>I don't follow you when you
>say the top point guys
>had their chance. The top
>point holders could draw any
>tag so there is no
>"chance" involved. It's the guys
>that missed out on a
>long awaited tag by perhaps
>1 pp that got the
>raw end of the deal
>with the new process. As
>far as adding to the
>point creep? Hell yea it
>add's to the point creep,
>that guy that missed drawing
>the premium tag by 1
>pp will apply next year
>thus reducing someone else's chances.
> If the CPOW followed
>a next in line process
>requiring the use of pp's,that
>guy that missed by 1
>pp might be out of
>the premium tag pool next
>season. I drew a premium
>tag this year using 12
>resident points, I'm going to
>be upset if someone camps
>next to me and says
>he used zero points to
>draw and that he has
>enough points to draw again
>next year which reduces my
>hunting partner's chance.
How simple can I put it? The guy next in line had a chance to get the tag. All he had to do was wait at a vendor and get lucky at the machine.
Why do you deserve that tag more than anyone else? Why does your age or time you have been hunting put you as more important and deserving than a 12 year old, kid or a 30 something women who are just starting to hunt? I would love to be camped next to you and say I got this tag with no points at all... Hell if I ever get the governors tag for a small raffle fee and points then I will be sure to let you know because obviously I would not deserve such a tag because I have not done exactly what you have done.
Sorry but even if the doubled the number of premium tags it would only slow Point creep a little and in a few years it would be right back at the current rate or faster. IN about 5 years point creep will get so bad you will wonder how you will ever get another tag. There is such a huge pool of hunters in the 10 to point range that even the lowest units are getting primed to jump more than we have seen.
So please tell me how the one unit 2 deer tag would have changed the point creep? Or how 8 unit 22 deer tags would have changed point creep or... Sorry there simply were not enough tags to make any sort of statistical difference.
The bigger problem I have is the attitude that you are owed the tag because you are obviously better than everyone else due to your points. Sorry but the wildlife belongs to all of us and no one should have any preference.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,113
Every year over the last 10 years hunters have turned tags back in an 0 animals are shot on those tags. On the primo tags turned in this year, most will get filled. This will effect quality and if the game is managed the same, you must reduce tag numbers the next year, maybe only by 1 tag.
The question is what % get turned in and what % is significant? Is it 1% turned in or is it 5 or 10%? What is significant?
I agree requiring points won't fix point creep, but at least it won't hurt which this policy does to a small margin. The DOW should be doing what they can to reduce the creep, not going the other direction.
I would take any primo tag with 1 month to scout! I applaud the DOW for finally making people turn in tags a month in advance.
Maybe the majority are fine with the new lottery, but for those who used their points already not being eligible it is not a fair system.
Why does someone without a tag deserve a high quality hunt over someone that used 1 point to get a tag?
Why did you two lucky dogs not already have a tag?
The question is what % get turned in and what % is significant? Is it 1% turned in or is it 5 or 10%? What is significant?
I agree requiring points won't fix point creep, but at least it won't hurt which this policy does to a small margin. The DOW should be doing what they can to reduce the creep, not going the other direction.
I would take any primo tag with 1 month to scout! I applaud the DOW for finally making people turn in tags a month in advance.
Maybe the majority are fine with the new lottery, but for those who used their points already not being eligible it is not a fair system.
Why does someone without a tag deserve a high quality hunt over someone that used 1 point to get a tag?
Why did you two lucky dogs not already have a tag?
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,113
Elks96,
If you are a 12 year old kid or 30 year old woman first time hunter, then I have no problem with you getting the tag. Are you?
If not, why should you get the tag in what amounts to a lottery instead of a person that applied with 17 points (in a unit where some with 17 drew, but he did not)? Why not just go down the line like Utah does? That is what CO is doing on the hybrid tags....is that not fair to you?
I guarantee I could reissue all tags turned in that used greater than 5 points in a few days, a week at most.
If you are a 12 year old kid or 30 year old woman first time hunter, then I have no problem with you getting the tag. Are you?
If not, why should you get the tag in what amounts to a lottery instead of a person that applied with 17 points (in a unit where some with 17 drew, but he did not)? Why not just go down the line like Utah does? That is what CO is doing on the hybrid tags....is that not fair to you?
I guarantee I could reissue all tags turned in that used greater than 5 points in a few days, a week at most.
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,802
HAHA! I would have given anything to have my daughter in line and gave her a chance. How many actual tags on that list took 17 points? Why draw the line at 5? Why not do it all? I sorry but there is no way you could get it done in a week. The ripple effect due to 2nd choice tags, otc tags the exchange rate etc.
The top point holders had a shot one of them got the tag but had to turn it in. If you had 17 points and barely missed the tag this year, would you sacrifice those points 30 days before the season with out having done any scouting? Would you do that knowing that next year you are technically in the top point pool baring anyone jumping ship? Or would you wait and draw the tag having an entire summer to scout?
NRIPERI you had the exact same chance as anyone else. The next guy in line had a chance to still get the tag. All he had to do was get in line and have a little luck. Sorry but I think points are stupid. There should be no preference at all. So no I will never feel sorry for an entitled mentality stating I deserve the tag. No one is owed anything other than a fair shot. With points no one has a fair shot at all.
The top point holders had a shot one of them got the tag but had to turn it in. If you had 17 points and barely missed the tag this year, would you sacrifice those points 30 days before the season with out having done any scouting? Would you do that knowing that next year you are technically in the top point pool baring anyone jumping ship? Or would you wait and draw the tag having an entire summer to scout?
NRIPERI you had the exact same chance as anyone else. The next guy in line had a chance to still get the tag. All he had to do was get in line and have a little luck. Sorry but I think points are stupid. There should be no preference at all. So no I will never feel sorry for an entitled mentality stating I deserve the tag. No one is owed anything other than a fair shot. With points no one has a fair shot at all.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-16 AT 09:05PM (MST)[p]
I think the problem elks96, is yer, comin off as the sore winner throwin salt in fresh wounds. JMO of course and maybe I'm the only one. Realize I'm happy you got a tag and your gonna get to go back to a place that holds some old and special memories for you. I'm excited to hear how it goes for ya this fall! Hope it's all you're thinkin it's gonna be!
Here was my leftover experience yesterday. I needed a little time to start to see straight again before posting my experience. I got up at 3am and arrived at the timnath colorado Walmart at 10 till 4. First in line! Hey I got a shot at this thing at least! I was only lookin for a buck antelope tag that takes 5pps in my backyard and an additional doe antelope tag in the same unit. As well as an additional cow tag in the unit I have a bull tag in. The problem of course is these were turn back tags and there was only 1-5 tags in each hunt code, but hey I'm first in line and I got a shot! The second person didn't arrive till 6:30 and at 7 the line began to grow to around 25 or so. At 8:45 we started to get a little nervous, no one at the counter! But Kim comes around the corner and assures us that Philip, who shall from this point forward be referred to as mud, is their expert at the machine and will be here shortly to teach her as well as run the other machine. Whew, thank goodness muds on his way! At 8:58 still no sign of mud. At 9:01 mud comes strollin up to the counter! Ya he's late but Kim said muds the expert, I'm first in line, I'm goin with mud! I hand mud the hunt code list in order of tags I'd prefer and mud gets started! For some reason, mud, the expert, decides to enter all the codes at once and it kicks him out......twice! Meanwhile, Kim has a couple questions, so mud, the expert, imparts his vast wisdom on Kim and helps the second guy in line get his cow tag! I'm a little hot at this point but the words and comments forming in my head will not speed this up so I hold my tongue. Finally mud, the expert, realizes he must enter them 1 at time and begins again. It's now 9:08, a little hotter I am! Mud apologizes and tells me it's been a year since he's done this! Mud enters the first code and unbeknownst to me must enter an additional code that coincides with species, each having their own. Mud doesn't realize that the first A in the hunt code I gave him stands for antelope and attaches the elk code to my antelope code! The machine gives mud an invalid code message and this puzzles mud. Just a sec, Kim has a question. "What code do I enter with the code the customer gives me?" Lucky guess on the first customer I guess. Mud helps her out and gets back to me. 9:10. I've concluded awhile ago mud is no expert and I notice his hands are shaky, I suspect it relates to why he was late. After hearing Kim's question I decide to let mud know the A in my first hunt code stands for antelope and the E in my last hunt code stands for elk. The third employee who was observing pipes in "D for deer?", and I decide to passively aggressively vent a little of my frustration by replying, "and B is for bear! And T is for turkey!". Mud senses I'm not a happy camper and I see the light come on in muds eyes as he's just realized he attached the elk code to my antelope code. I've realized I no longer have a shot at this thing! Mud correctly enters my first hunt code at 9:12! "No tags left", mud reads off the machine. "Ya think?". Customer #3 now gets the bad news from Kim "no tags left". Mud proceeds to enter my remaining 3 hunt codes each time proudly announcing "no tags left" as if he's really got it figured out now! I look mud in the eye, grab my paperwork and turn to leave. The boys behind me can sense my displeasure and I theirs, and part like the Red Sea for me to leave without delay.
I'm not disappointed in the process set forth by the dg&p. I think it's cool that all those tags that were turned in in the past only to go unused are now available. Ya its a little slanted to the residents as the leftover process has always been. Obviously the part the non residents are upset about is that now some of the better tags are on that list. But keep in mind the tags that require the highest points, those codes that offer hybrid tags, are given to the next person in line from the initial draw and do not go into the leftover draw. Some of the better tags that were available in the leftover draw this year will be in that category in a short while as they meet the criteria set forth by the dg&p. What I am upset about is the fact that I've gone to this licensing agent the past 4 or 5 yrs without issue. They have competent people that have run the draw in the past who are still employed there. Why management decided to put mud in charge this year is what I don't understand and irritates the @#$%@! out of me, if I've left any doubt.
Congrats to you lucky dogs that got a tag you were hopein for! Enjoy the he!! out of it! None of us get to hunt forever!
I think the problem elks96, is yer, comin off as the sore winner throwin salt in fresh wounds. JMO of course and maybe I'm the only one. Realize I'm happy you got a tag and your gonna get to go back to a place that holds some old and special memories for you. I'm excited to hear how it goes for ya this fall! Hope it's all you're thinkin it's gonna be!
Here was my leftover experience yesterday. I needed a little time to start to see straight again before posting my experience. I got up at 3am and arrived at the timnath colorado Walmart at 10 till 4. First in line! Hey I got a shot at this thing at least! I was only lookin for a buck antelope tag that takes 5pps in my backyard and an additional doe antelope tag in the same unit. As well as an additional cow tag in the unit I have a bull tag in. The problem of course is these were turn back tags and there was only 1-5 tags in each hunt code, but hey I'm first in line and I got a shot! The second person didn't arrive till 6:30 and at 7 the line began to grow to around 25 or so. At 8:45 we started to get a little nervous, no one at the counter! But Kim comes around the corner and assures us that Philip, who shall from this point forward be referred to as mud, is their expert at the machine and will be here shortly to teach her as well as run the other machine. Whew, thank goodness muds on his way! At 8:58 still no sign of mud. At 9:01 mud comes strollin up to the counter! Ya he's late but Kim said muds the expert, I'm first in line, I'm goin with mud! I hand mud the hunt code list in order of tags I'd prefer and mud gets started! For some reason, mud, the expert, decides to enter all the codes at once and it kicks him out......twice! Meanwhile, Kim has a couple questions, so mud, the expert, imparts his vast wisdom on Kim and helps the second guy in line get his cow tag! I'm a little hot at this point but the words and comments forming in my head will not speed this up so I hold my tongue. Finally mud, the expert, realizes he must enter them 1 at time and begins again. It's now 9:08, a little hotter I am! Mud apologizes and tells me it's been a year since he's done this! Mud enters the first code and unbeknownst to me must enter an additional code that coincides with species, each having their own. Mud doesn't realize that the first A in the hunt code I gave him stands for antelope and attaches the elk code to my antelope code! The machine gives mud an invalid code message and this puzzles mud. Just a sec, Kim has a question. "What code do I enter with the code the customer gives me?" Lucky guess on the first customer I guess. Mud helps her out and gets back to me. 9:10. I've concluded awhile ago mud is no expert and I notice his hands are shaky, I suspect it relates to why he was late. After hearing Kim's question I decide to let mud know the A in my first hunt code stands for antelope and the E in my last hunt code stands for elk. The third employee who was observing pipes in "D for deer?", and I decide to passively aggressively vent a little of my frustration by replying, "and B is for bear! And T is for turkey!". Mud senses I'm not a happy camper and I see the light come on in muds eyes as he's just realized he attached the elk code to my antelope code. I've realized I no longer have a shot at this thing! Mud correctly enters my first hunt code at 9:12! "No tags left", mud reads off the machine. "Ya think?". Customer #3 now gets the bad news from Kim "no tags left". Mud proceeds to enter my remaining 3 hunt codes each time proudly announcing "no tags left" as if he's really got it figured out now! I look mud in the eye, grab my paperwork and turn to leave. The boys behind me can sense my displeasure and I theirs, and part like the Red Sea for me to leave without delay.
I'm not disappointed in the process set forth by the dg&p. I think it's cool that all those tags that were turned in in the past only to go unused are now available. Ya its a little slanted to the residents as the leftover process has always been. Obviously the part the non residents are upset about is that now some of the better tags are on that list. But keep in mind the tags that require the highest points, those codes that offer hybrid tags, are given to the next person in line from the initial draw and do not go into the leftover draw. Some of the better tags that were available in the leftover draw this year will be in that category in a short while as they meet the criteria set forth by the dg&p. What I am upset about is the fact that I've gone to this licensing agent the past 4 or 5 yrs without issue. They have competent people that have run the draw in the past who are still employed there. Why management decided to put mud in charge this year is what I don't understand and irritates the @#$%@! out of me, if I've left any doubt.
Congrats to you lucky dogs that got a tag you were hopein for! Enjoy the he!! out of it! None of us get to hunt forever!
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,113
How did I have the same chance, I used my points for a tag, so I had zero chance unless I turned my tag back in.
Elks96,congrats and no hard feelings, curious to why you didn't have a tag already?
DW made some good points in that the primo tags will likely not be eligible in the future...74 early, 67 4th, 61 tags, 76 archery....but they were eligible this year.
Elks96,congrats and no hard feelings, curious to why you didn't have a tag already?
DW made some good points in that the primo tags will likely not be eligible in the future...74 early, 67 4th, 61 tags, 76 archery....but they were eligible this year.
COLOelkman
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,039
DW - Sorry to hear of your experience as it's happened to me before also when I had to train the operators how to fill in the correct numbers. End result was no tags also!
On your comment on the higher point tags becoming Hybrid (I think that's what you were saying) I don't think that will happen unless they change the rules. Reading the Hybrid rules on P 7, notes they were based on units that had a 3-year 10 point average ending in 2009. So, I don't think any new Hybrid units have been added as I asked them once about this and they confirmed that the rules only setup Hybrid units 1 time. Seems like they would have made it so it could be adjusted periodically. Perhaps another item that they could improved on! However even the Hybrid tags make the point creep problem worse. As noted in other posts, the point creep thing will only get worse with time and unfortunately the younger generation will be those that bear the brunt of the problem.
On your comment on the higher point tags becoming Hybrid (I think that's what you were saying) I don't think that will happen unless they change the rules. Reading the Hybrid rules on P 7, notes they were based on units that had a 3-year 10 point average ending in 2009. So, I don't think any new Hybrid units have been added as I asked them once about this and they confirmed that the rules only setup Hybrid units 1 time. Seems like they would have made it so it could be adjusted periodically. Perhaps another item that they could improved on! However even the Hybrid tags make the point creep problem worse. As noted in other posts, the point creep thing will only get worse with time and unfortunately the younger generation will be those that bear the brunt of the problem.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-16 AT 09:46PM (MST)[p]I stand corrected COLOelkman. I was under the impression it was a bit of a sliding scale, as a unit took 10 res points to draw for 3 yrs it would enter the hybrid as well as fall out should it take less than 10. But after reading it you are right.
As for point creep, I'm out of the deer, elk and antelope point gathering game and hunt in units I generally get a tag in. Obviously over time even those units will require more and more points to draw as we get more and more hunters applying for these tags. I don't know the answer. I don't like a complete random draw either cause my middle name is chitferluck as evidence by my 16points for moose, sheep and goat! I think its inevitable it will get to a point where we don't get to hunt every year. Maybe that's part of the answer as its used in other species, you draw, the next year you don't get to apply, or maybe not for 2yrs or 3. Maybe you get to apply for each species in only 1 state/ year. He!! I don't know. This is the point tri-state comes along and tells us we're all fighting over who gets to kill the last critter. Maybe he's right.
As for point creep, I'm out of the deer, elk and antelope point gathering game and hunt in units I generally get a tag in. Obviously over time even those units will require more and more points to draw as we get more and more hunters applying for these tags. I don't know the answer. I don't like a complete random draw either cause my middle name is chitferluck as evidence by my 16points for moose, sheep and goat! I think its inevitable it will get to a point where we don't get to hunt every year. Maybe that's part of the answer as its used in other species, you draw, the next year you don't get to apply, or maybe not for 2yrs or 3. Maybe you get to apply for each species in only 1 state/ year. He!! I don't know. This is the point tri-state comes along and tells us we're all fighting over who gets to kill the last critter. Maybe he's right.
elkmo41
Active Member
- Messages
- 302
Did anyone get a tag by phone, or heard if anyone got a tag thru the phone?
I could set up a POS (point of sale) device...but after reading the rules that will not happen.
http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Sh...gents/LicenseAgentManual.pdf#search=pos rules
I could set up a POS (point of sale) device...but after reading the rules that will not happen.
http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Sh...gents/LicenseAgentManual.pdf#search=pos rules
>Did anyone get a tag by
>phone, or heard if anyone
>got a tag thru the
>phone?
>
I'm bettin against it.
>I could set up a POS
>(point of sale) device...but after
>reading the rules that will
>not happen.
>
You didn't think this government operation was comin without a couple arm loads of rules and regulations did you?
>http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Sh...gents/LicenseAgentManual.pdf#search=pos rules
>phone, or heard if anyone
>got a tag thru the
>phone?
>
I'm bettin against it.
>I could set up a POS
>(point of sale) device...but after
>reading the rules that will
>not happen.
>
You didn't think this government operation was comin without a couple arm loads of rules and regulations did you?
>http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Sh...gents/LicenseAgentManual.pdf#search=pos rules
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,563
I was hoping to pick up a cow tag for a late season and waited until 11 AM to start calling. Figured it might be better by then. Called off and on all afternoon. Over 150 times total. Just got busy signal. At 4:30 pm Colorado time, I gave up and called a friend who has an office near a license dealer and had him buy it for me.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Waygoner
Active Member
- Messages
- 459
I called for about 30 minutes straight and gave up. I'd like to know if anyone successfully purchased over the phone. I'm beginning to doubt it.
I'd also like to see tag sales limited to one per person. That would prevent the anyone in line from taking so long that everyone behind them misses out.
I'd also like to see tag sales limited to one per person. That would prevent the anyone in line from taking so long that everyone behind them misses out.
oldmossback
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,123
nripepi, I am just curious(by your comment that you would gladly burn your points with less than 30 days to scout) to how many preference points you have? If its less than 5, I understand.
I have 15 resident points for deer. My son drew a 3rd season buck tag in a so so unit. It took him 3 points in the draw. There were returned tags for his hunt so I wanted to get one of those tags so I could hunt with my son... Now I was not going to burn my 15 resident points on this unit in the draw which is why I do not have a tag already. I did not get a tag at 9am Tuesday but oh well, I am no worse off than I was before. I will still go with my son like originally planned.
I myself like the fact that Colorado lets you turn back in tags and 30 days is fair . You say you like Wyoming's way? (another reason I doubt you have many points). Have you thought that scenario out ? Lets say you have 18 points for a species and you drew your life long tag... 3 days before your dream season, you get a call with some (god forbid) horrible life changing news.. You can not make your once in a lifetime hunt.. I bet you wish you could turn your tag in and keep your points now??
Elks 96 is simply trying to say, we have all had multiple chances at these tags. Luck plays into the leftover scenario just like the main draw. more points increases your chance at a tag, just like sitting in line 20 hours increases your chance of a leftover tag.
DW...lol. there is a reason why I don't go to any walmart in these situations and I think you discovered why. Live and learn I guess
I have 15 resident points for deer. My son drew a 3rd season buck tag in a so so unit. It took him 3 points in the draw. There were returned tags for his hunt so I wanted to get one of those tags so I could hunt with my son... Now I was not going to burn my 15 resident points on this unit in the draw which is why I do not have a tag already. I did not get a tag at 9am Tuesday but oh well, I am no worse off than I was before. I will still go with my son like originally planned.
I myself like the fact that Colorado lets you turn back in tags and 30 days is fair . You say you like Wyoming's way? (another reason I doubt you have many points). Have you thought that scenario out ? Lets say you have 18 points for a species and you drew your life long tag... 3 days before your dream season, you get a call with some (god forbid) horrible life changing news.. You can not make your once in a lifetime hunt.. I bet you wish you could turn your tag in and keep your points now??
Elks 96 is simply trying to say, we have all had multiple chances at these tags. Luck plays into the leftover scenario just like the main draw. more points increases your chance at a tag, just like sitting in line 20 hours increases your chance of a leftover tag.
DW...lol. there is a reason why I don't go to any walmart in these situations and I think you discovered why. Live and learn I guess
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,113
I used 13 points on a tag this Fall, and someone else is going to get the same tag without using a point!
I would have taken a 67 4th tag with 1 months notice and burned my 13 points, no questions asked!
I have no problem with someone turning in a tag because of an emergency, I wish Wyoming would allow that. The issue is turning in tags because you drew another tag or didn't find a big buck or bull or just didn't feel like hunting this year.
I could still abuse the system and turn in my 13 point tag with a month to go and will do that if I get a primo elk tag through this "lottery"! My 2 elk points will not be burned and I could be hunting 61 or 76 potentially!
In your scenario, I understand why you did not have a tag and why you wanted to get a tag to hunt with your son...all sounds great to me and legit, I wish you would have gotten that tag and glad you are still getting to go with your son. Best of luck and make some memories!
Let's say you and your son both had 3 points this year and put in separately because you knew 50% of those with 3 points were going to draw. Let's say 4 tags got turned back in for that unit. Would you rather they go randomly to those that get lucky in the lottery where they were not using their points or would you rather they go back to the 50% of those with 3 points who applied who were willing to use them? You would be in the 50% and would have a good shot at that tag that you wanted to get.
It sure seems to me that it would be more fair to go those who tried to get the tag in the first place and it would make sense if they used their points (the Utah way). If you had three points instead of a dozen, you might have a different point of view.
I would have taken a 67 4th tag with 1 months notice and burned my 13 points, no questions asked!
I have no problem with someone turning in a tag because of an emergency, I wish Wyoming would allow that. The issue is turning in tags because you drew another tag or didn't find a big buck or bull or just didn't feel like hunting this year.
I could still abuse the system and turn in my 13 point tag with a month to go and will do that if I get a primo elk tag through this "lottery"! My 2 elk points will not be burned and I could be hunting 61 or 76 potentially!
In your scenario, I understand why you did not have a tag and why you wanted to get a tag to hunt with your son...all sounds great to me and legit, I wish you would have gotten that tag and glad you are still getting to go with your son. Best of luck and make some memories!
Let's say you and your son both had 3 points this year and put in separately because you knew 50% of those with 3 points were going to draw. Let's say 4 tags got turned back in for that unit. Would you rather they go randomly to those that get lucky in the lottery where they were not using their points or would you rather they go back to the 50% of those with 3 points who applied who were willing to use them? You would be in the 50% and would have a good shot at that tag that you wanted to get.
It sure seems to me that it would be more fair to go those who tried to get the tag in the first place and it would make sense if they used their points (the Utah way). If you had three points instead of a dozen, you might have a different point of view.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,113
In your scenario with the news coming 3 days before the season, you would be stuck with the tag in Co, Ut and Wy. If that news came 30 days out, you are correct, you would be able to turn your tag back in in Colorado and Utah. I understand where you are coming from, but I believe most of the tags that get turned back in early are because a person drew another tag and know that they can still keep their points. I am guessing most of those tags are non-resident tags. I bet that prior to the new "30-day" rule many of those tags turned back in just before the season were from hunters not finding a big one or not having the "right" weather in the forecast, could be either residents or non-residents, but perhaps more residents.
I will be trying at 8:59:59 next Tuesday!
I will be trying at 8:59:59 next Tuesday!
oldmossback
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,123
What it all boils down to is luck. Just like if we did draw our dream tag, Getting a animal down still involves some luck.
If I drew a tag with my 15 points and the guy camped next to me got it because he waited 20 hours in line for a returned tag and got it, I would not be upset, I would be a little jealous. But he was lucky. Cant dislike someone because they are luckier than me.
In elks96 situation, I am happy as hell for that guy. I have watched him for years bend over backward to help other hunters, he has given up his honey holes and worked his butt off to see others succeed when he didn't have a tag. He has even opened his own home to any hunter that was in the area and needed tools or help. Nice to see karma shined on him for once.
If I drew a tag with my 15 points and the guy camped next to me got it because he waited 20 hours in line for a returned tag and got it, I would not be upset, I would be a little jealous. But he was lucky. Cant dislike someone because they are luckier than me.
In elks96 situation, I am happy as hell for that guy. I have watched him for years bend over backward to help other hunters, he has given up his honey holes and worked his butt off to see others succeed when he didn't have a tag. He has even opened his own home to any hunter that was in the area and needed tools or help. Nice to see karma shined on him for once.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,113
That is great that a good guy who put in the hours got the tag, great for him and all others who played by the rules. I am not mad at them at all, jealous, sure. The system just doesn't seem quite right....sure has a lot of people excited though...that is a good thing.
camo_deerslayer
Active Member
- Messages
- 104
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-16 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]>Elks96,
>
>If you are a 12 year
>old kid or 30 year
>old woman first time hunter,
>then I have no problem
>with you getting the tag.
>Are you?
>
>If not, why should you get
>the tag in what amounts
>to a lottery instead of
>a person that applied with
>17 points (in a unit
>where some with 17 drew,
>but he did not)? Why
>not just go down the
>line like Utah does? That
>is what CO is doing
>on the hybrid tags....is that
>not fair to you?
>
>I guarantee I could reissue all
>tags turned in that used
>greater than 5 points in
>a few days, a week
>at most.
I'm with nripepi...
I'm happy for those who got lucky and got a premium tag, so I hope they aren't taking this personal.
I WOULD be willing to give up my points for one of those premium tags, and would do so with 30 minutes notice!! In almost every draw there is a certain amount of hunters who had the "minimum" required points, but didn't draw. They MAY draw next year, unless the points creep gets them. The guy that turned his tag back in gets all his points back (but doesn't gain a point.) This WILL INCREASE points creep. How is that fair to those who have patiently waited 5-20 years for a tag?!!
In the case of sheep, Mtn goats and moose the "turned back tags" are offered to the guy who was next in line. That is very fair in my opinion.
I have absolutely no problem with the current system, as it relates to tags that not enough people applied for, which is the majority of tags that went on sale August 2nd. It's the "premium" tags being there that I have a problem with. They should at least take peoples points if they want those tags...
>
>If you are a 12 year
>old kid or 30 year
>old woman first time hunter,
>then I have no problem
>with you getting the tag.
>Are you?
>
>If not, why should you get
>the tag in what amounts
>to a lottery instead of
>a person that applied with
>17 points (in a unit
>where some with 17 drew,
>but he did not)? Why
>not just go down the
>line like Utah does? That
>is what CO is doing
>on the hybrid tags....is that
>not fair to you?
>
>I guarantee I could reissue all
>tags turned in that used
>greater than 5 points in
>a few days, a week
>at most.
I'm with nripepi...
I'm happy for those who got lucky and got a premium tag, so I hope they aren't taking this personal.
I WOULD be willing to give up my points for one of those premium tags, and would do so with 30 minutes notice!! In almost every draw there is a certain amount of hunters who had the "minimum" required points, but didn't draw. They MAY draw next year, unless the points creep gets them. The guy that turned his tag back in gets all his points back (but doesn't gain a point.) This WILL INCREASE points creep. How is that fair to those who have patiently waited 5-20 years for a tag?!!
In the case of sheep, Mtn goats and moose the "turned back tags" are offered to the guy who was next in line. That is very fair in my opinion.
I have absolutely no problem with the current system, as it relates to tags that not enough people applied for, which is the majority of tags that went on sale August 2nd. It's the "premium" tags being there that I have a problem with. They should at least take peoples points if they want those tags...
There is NO WAY they will hand the tags back to the "next" guy in line for deer, elk, pronghorn. The vast majority of time the next guy in line already has a tag, and the next and next so on... just running in circles by doing that.
It works for moose, sheep, goat cause the next guy in line is guaranteed to NOT have a tag, so yes it makes perfect sense to do it that way.
Dam this three ring circus of whining is crazy.
everyone thinks they are the one person out of thousands that deserves the tag cause of reason xx.x.x.x.x.x. There are not enough tags to go around, first come first serve is by far the best option.
Get over it, kids, youth, military, senior, high point holder, handicap, first time hunter, mom, dad, jack hole. Everyone has an argument, you saying that person A is more entitled then person B is ridiculous.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
It works for moose, sheep, goat cause the next guy in line is guaranteed to NOT have a tag, so yes it makes perfect sense to do it that way.
Dam this three ring circus of whining is crazy.
everyone thinks they are the one person out of thousands that deserves the tag cause of reason xx.x.x.x.x.x. There are not enough tags to go around, first come first serve is by far the best option.
Get over it, kids, youth, military, senior, high point holder, handicap, first time hunter, mom, dad, jack hole. Everyone has an argument, you saying that person A is more entitled then person B is ridiculous.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,802
Someone asked why I did not have a tag already this fall?
I actually chose to enter on PP for this year and play the left over game. It was a hard choice as I can usually gat a second choice tag with my wife and hunt the unit where our house is... She gets the left over every year, lucky I suppose! But I only draw the tag about every 4 years as a second choice.
So my decision was straight up to play the left over game. My full intention since January was no drawn deer tag and then hope for the best with the leftover process. I got lucky and knew that my chances at getting anything was slim to none. But I also knew that this year was going to different than my last 13/14 years in that with the leftover draw I might have several options to explore! When there were tag in my favorite unit in the state, and the unit Igrew up hunting, I knew my game plan! when the leftover list showed up I saw a lot of options, but my entire game plan was for a certain deer tag.
Let's play another scenario. You just drew a tag with 13 points! I truly hope you get a great animals and an even better hunts!
You mentioned having an issue that the next camp might have a guy who lucked into a left over lic. Play this out a little into the future! This year comes and goes, you had a great hunt, etc. Next year rolls around and somehow you managed to not draw a tag in the draw. Left over comes out and you luck into the same tag you had this year as a left over.
Do you still hate the system or like the system?
I myself have sat in many CPW meetings and when they announced this process I fully remember thinking! Skip the draw, play the game!
I actually chose to enter on PP for this year and play the left over game. It was a hard choice as I can usually gat a second choice tag with my wife and hunt the unit where our house is... She gets the left over every year, lucky I suppose! But I only draw the tag about every 4 years as a second choice.
So my decision was straight up to play the left over game. My full intention since January was no drawn deer tag and then hope for the best with the leftover process. I got lucky and knew that my chances at getting anything was slim to none. But I also knew that this year was going to different than my last 13/14 years in that with the leftover draw I might have several options to explore! When there were tag in my favorite unit in the state, and the unit Igrew up hunting, I knew my game plan! when the leftover list showed up I saw a lot of options, but my entire game plan was for a certain deer tag.
Let's play another scenario. You just drew a tag with 13 points! I truly hope you get a great animals and an even better hunts!
You mentioned having an issue that the next camp might have a guy who lucked into a left over lic. Play this out a little into the future! This year comes and goes, you had a great hunt, etc. Next year rolls around and somehow you managed to not draw a tag in the draw. Left over comes out and you luck into the same tag you had this year as a left over.
Do you still hate the system or like the system?
I myself have sat in many CPW meetings and when they announced this process I fully remember thinking! Skip the draw, play the game!
DesertGhillie
Active Member
- Messages
- 271
Elks is one of the nicer guys on this forum! Congrats, and hold out for a good one!
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