This is ridiculous!

[Tristate]

If someone, not a LEO, only asks to see your papers he is just being a rude twerp. But when people start saying it is his right to see your papers because he has been brainwashed into believing you are hunting HIS deer then it becomes unconstitutional. You are guaranteed a reasonable right to privacy, and most importantly, a constitutional pathway to arrest. That includes things like "warrants", "Due cause", "Miranda Rights", and most importantly a right to legal Representation! And there isn't one peon on this planet that can legally take that from you because he thinks he "owns" the deer! Here's a story today of someone who thought they could be Barney for a minute and now there will probably be enough litigation here it could break the budget of a state DWR.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/0...ent-debate-after-questioning-traffic-stop-by/

In Texas you can be charged with Oppression. Yeah that's an actual felony here. If you are a law enforcement officer and you don't respect the fourth amendment you can be charged with Federal Oppression which will ruin the rest of your life. If government agencies start arresting people from investigations began by citizens that just start demanding "papers" willy-nilly from hunters then they can expect no convictions and no budget because lawyers are going to eat their agencies alive and break them.

Here's a question for the guys that think they should be able to see anyone's "papers" they want. What will you do when the bunny huggers start demanding to see YOUR papers? That's right you're hunting THEIR deer too! Maybe they want access to your freezer to see how much of THEIR deer you have in your home. That's right they should be able to harass you at your home because you are hunting THEIR deer. What do you have to hide? Come on give them your "papers" You start this sliding slope and you will fall into a hole you can't ever get out of.

 

[Tristate]

"As far as I have understood Al's refused to give the Dwr information about the guy because "they respect their loyal customers." ??????????????
I really hope that is just a rumor. If not, wow. Local sporting goods store supporting foul play?
I will reiterate that I don't know personally if that is the case. It's just what I heard so if anyone else personally knows feel free to chime in."


This post is low class gossip. Integrity, who needs it?

 

[touarcher]

>As far as I have understood Al's refused to give the Dwr information about the guy because "they respect their loyal customers." ??????????????
> I really hope that is just a rumor. If not, wow. Local sporting goods store supporting foul play? I will reiterate that I don't know personally if that is the case. It's just what I heard so if anyone else personally knows feel free to chime in.
>"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest have been wasted"

If that is true that Al's won't share the information in an official investigation, that's too bad for hunters everywhere... the local LEO knows my number, and I have the serial number for the kid's bow.

 

[Vanilla]

Tristate...let's break this down:

"If someone, not a LEO, only asks to see your papers he is just being a rude twerp. But when people start saying it is his right to see your papers because he has been brainwashed into believing you are hunting HIS deer then it becomes unconstitutional. You are guaranteed a reasonable right to privacy, and most importantly, a constitutional pathway to arrest. That includes things like "warrants", "Due cause", "Miranda Rights", and most importantly a right to legal Representation!"

First of all, I am not in support of going and checking other hunters' licenses. If I have a suspicion, I'll call law enforcement and let them do their job. But your above post couldn't be any legally or factually wrong than it is. You have a constitutional right to privacy, et al that you mention from the GOVERNMENT, not from private individuals. You have absolutely no reasonable expectation of privacy from another hunter on the mountain. Other hunters will never have to read you Miranda warnings (necessary only for custodial interrogations), and they certainly don't need a warrant. Other laws and statutes may be in play and other laws may be violated when you start detaining people without authority, but it is not the constitution. Just thought I'd clear that up for you, since you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Tristate]

Actually vanilla you couldn't be more wrong. You have a constitutional right to privacy FROM ANYONE, not just the government! Privacy doesn't end in the private sector. And you do have a right to privacy on public property. Of course the line moves when you get on public property but still no man has a right to just start demanding your papers, period. If what you say is true then the minute you walk off private property anyone has a right to stick his hand up your wife's skirt as long as they aren't working for the government?????????

However you are right about when you start detaining people. Things like kidnapping get involved and you better be way in the right or you could spend the next thirty years in a federal pen.

 

[trophymuley]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-13 AT 09:39AM (MST)[p]
Tristate, you overreact. If you aren't doing anything wrong, or anything that seems suspicious then you obviously aren't going to get asked by anyone to show them anything. If you don't like a concerned citizen asking then by all means you have the right to reject and they have the right to call authorities at that point. You just seem a little paranoid to me. The Cold War is over buddy. Get over it
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[Vanilla]

>Actually vanilla you couldn't be more
>wrong. You have a
>constitutional right to privacy FROM
>ANYONE, not just the government!
> Privacy doesn't end in
>the private sector. And
If what you
>say is true then the
>minute you walk off private
>property anyone has a right
>to stick his hand up
>your wife's skirt as long
>as they aren't working for
>the government?????????

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen on an online forum. Stick to what you know, because it isn't the law and clearly isn't the constitution!

 

[Tristate]

So because the cold war is over we should all turn ourselves into a sportsmen's gestapo militia??????

I want to know what you are going to do when PETA members start demanding your "papers". Trust me they think you are doing something suspicious with "their" deer.

Trophymuley, respect peoples privacy. Even people you are suspicious of. Even people you don't like. That is part and parcel to being an American. If you see something suspicious call a game warden. He, or she, is trained in the proper ways to investigate crime and pursue prosecution. If you feel the game wardens aren't doing their jobs make it an issue with the legislature and not an issue for everyone you deem "suspicious". A game warden that asks for papers is a recognizable official with the training needed if more action is needed. Your just some fella with some blaze orange and a regular job that gets nosey. Citizens don't just hand out private info to unauthorized strangers on the side of a mountain and it is unreasonable for you to believe they should.

I realize I must have been raised at a different time than yall and values have changed.

 

[Tristate]

You think that's dumb?????? You think the constitution goes away on public property or at the hands of private citizens. THAT IS DUMB.

Vanilla, when you go hunting on public property do you have a right to your private property anymore? Does the government have a right to broadcast your private information to the private sector? Do other hunters have a right to break in and rummage through your truck and see if they can get personal information about you?

You stated this.

"You have a constitutional right to privacy, et al that you mention from the GOVERNMENT, not from private individuals."

You have a constitutional right to privacy from EVERYBODY!

Then you said this.

"You have absolutely no reasonable expectation of privacy from another hunter on the mountain."

Just because someone can openly see you doesn't mean all privacy goes down the toilet. Intellectual property is still property and you have a right to keep it private if you decide to.

You think I am wrong that's fine. Go demand someone's driver's license from someone on the mountain next year and see what kind of response you get. Better yet since he has no rights on public property just reach in that pocket and jerk it out. Call me from lock-up.

 

[trophymuley]

You act like someone asking you to show your tag is as if they are asking you if they can perform a cavity search. I think we understand you disagree with the concept being shared and there's nothing wrong with that. You are entitled to your opinion.
If anyone ever asked me to show them my tags regardless of who it was I would have no problem showing them. If I see a downed animal I always look at the tag on it. You wouldn't believe the amount of tags I have seen incorrectly notched. Doesn't necessarily mean it was intentional, but I always inform the hunter and am usually thanked for letting them know. The whole point is to make poachers Leary of trying to pull a quick one
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[beingaweiner]

would that be the deer you shot in north logan by your buddies moms house by 1500 east 1900 north? OH thats the part you left out sounds like your mad somebody else shot that deer and not you!!! Maybe you should think what you have done and not act like your high and mighty like the rest of your hunting group does!!!! Just a thought dont post your pics if you have done the same thing and dont expect somebody to call you out

 

[hilltophunter]

Tristate is right on with his comments. I don't know why you people are attacking him and think you have the right to police other peoples activities.

Its a sad thing that an idiot shot your tame town bucks but aside from calling the local police for the hunter shooting a bow in city limits (if it is illegal in your city) you have no right to try and police other hunters.

You are letting emotion control logical thinking. You have no damn business asking people to see their papers, equipment, or even approach them, etc etc. If you think someone is acting suspicious then call the authorities and let them do their job. Fill out a report or give them info on what you have observed then back off and watch.

If you came up to me being an overgrown beard loving duck dynasty fan and asked me to see my license I'd tell you to F off. If you acted like and idiot I'd probably choke you out and kick you in the ribs a few times so that you remember the next day why you should mind your own damn business.

I'm sure there are plenty of other towns people that were in love with those tame deer too and before going to sleep everynight kissing the pictures they have of them on their smart phone (which I'm pretty sure you have been doing for some time).

Personally I don't really care that these guys shot your town bucks and think it may be a good thing even if it broke your heart and has sent you on a vigilante type manhunt for any "suspicious" people which has prompted you to take it upon yourself to act as a law enforcement officer. I would much rather have one of your crack head neighbors kill those bucks in city limts (legal or not) then to have one of them cause a wreck and possibly injure or kill someone. How would you feel about your town bucks if your wife and small kids wrecked because the bucks were standing broadside at night in the middle of the street???

At least from these posts we know there are a handful of self proclaimed DWR agents out there protecting our wildlife, I mean tame town bucks, or, well either way just keep stopping people to check their licenses and equipment whenever you feel like it so the rest of us are safe and every town buck can live a long and happy life.

 

[hilltophunter]

Oh, I did forget to make one observation which now makes total sense why trophymuley was so attached to these deer and is on a manhunt.

He stated that he always looks at the tags on peoples dead deer and many times they arent nothched correctly "but they do thank him for correctying their misdeads". This makes perfect sense to me now why he was so in love with the town bucks. He is definately a big time high traffic area road hunter because in all my years of hunting the high country there have been very few times that I have ever run into another hunter with a dead/tagged deer (this is because I don't consistently drive low canyon roads where I would run into other hunters. Its drive to where you park an then hike, then hike out after hunting and leave). I assume if seeing other hunters with dead deer is very common for trophymulebeard he is either:

1. road hunting with the heavyweights and stopping to check out every road shot forky on the opening weeking and seeing a few decent sized town bucks is very thrilling to him because he isn't seeing that quality of animal from the roads (and deep down really wanted those bucks on his wall if they would just leave town limits for a day), or

2. It is not a new thing for him to police other hunters as he goes out of his way to drive around and harrass people while they are hunting by checking every dead deer for correct tagging, etc.then he completes his ethical duties by informing the other hunters of their misdeads.

I'm guessing my 2nd guess is the closest one and that taking it upon himself to police other hunters is not a new thing for trophymulebeard.

I'd just be careful with your citizen police work because one day you may run into the wrong guy on the hill and really regret your actions.

 

[beingaweiner]

See the part trophymuley dont want anybody to know is that he is as guilty as this kid is cause he did the same thing in north logan and shot a deer by his buddies moms house on 1500 east and 1900 north that would be the one deer that he has wounded and said it healed up fine the only reason he new that was it lived in his buddies moms backyard and the reason he is a duddly do right is his religious back ground leads him to think he is right and everyone else is a sinner!! Thats life in utah!!! Maybe trophymuley should practice what he is preaching
typical person mad as hell they didnt get the chance to kill the nice city buck or he likes to drive around chasing the deer until they drop their antlers in the winter!!! you are a self righteous butt you dam cry baby

 

[grizzly]

I really wish a lot of you guys would take the lead of so many of the rest of us and ignore the LOSERS that post on this forum. I don't need to name names, we all know who they are. Even they know who they are.

This buck (Narrows), and pictures of him wounded on a porch, made The Herald Journal (local newspaper) today, with a direct mention of MM and a line telling readers to check it out on the Mule Deer Forum.

The type of b!tching that these LOSERS turn our discussions into is embarrassing, especially when it is seen by non-hunters that will be now reading this thread.

For the record, hunting is illegal in North Logan and Hyde Park. No question about it. The police quoted in the article ask for hunters to be vigilant and call in any suspicious activity immediately, as bow-hunting is not allowed. The officer also states that the deer are city deer and never leave city limits.

These poachers (shooting a deer in an area closed to hunting) should be called out, prosecuted, and ostracized from the hunting community. They should be treated in the worst possible way and publicly shamed. Not defended, de facto, by some pre-pubescent piece of trash trying to re-frame and distract from the real story.

Grizzly

 

[beingaweiner]

>I really wish a lot of
>you guys would take the
>lead of so many of
>the rest of us and
>ignore the LOSERS that post
>on this forum. I
>don't need to name names,
>we all know who they
>are. Even they know
>who they are.
>
>This buck (Narrows), and pictures of
>him wounded on a porch,
>made The Herald Journal (local
>newspaper) today, with a direct
>mention of MM and a
>line telling readers to check
>it out on the Mule
>Deer Forum.
>
>The type of b!tching that these
>LOSERS turn our discussions into
>is embarrassing, especially when it
>is seen by non-hunters that
>will be now reading this
>thread.
>
>For the record, hunting is illegal
>in North Logan and Hyde
>Park. No question about
>it. The police quoted
>in the article ask for
>hunters to be vigilant and
>call in any suspicious activity
>immediately, as bow-hunting is not
>allowed. The officer also
>states that the deer are
>city deer and never leave
>city limits.
>
>These poachers (shooting a deer in
>an area closed to hunting)
>should be called out, prosecuted,
>and ostracized from the hunting
>community. They should be treated
>in the worst possible way
>and publicly shamed. Not
>defended, de facto, by some
>pre-pubescent piece of trash trying
>to re-frame and distract from
>the real story.
>
>Grizzly

grizzly hope your not ok with the fact that trophymuley is talking crap on these people for doing what they did when in fact trophymuley is just as guilty for doing the same thing in north logan city limits and in a neighborhood where he could of stuck a kid with his arrow!!!there is not a difference now is there?

 

[Ridn9high]

If I'm hunting and a stranger ask me for help, a water, a soda, etc, I'm all ears and willing. If a stranger that is not LEO ask to see my license, tags, or DL, they are going to get laughed at. You want to play mr LEO, go to college, then to the academy and go get hired on with a department.

 

[Hawkeye]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-11-13 AT 01:04PM (MST)[p]Vanilla-

Your exchange with tristate was classical! There is nothing more comical that watching a two-bit, texas taxidermist lecture a lawyer on the law. You should have known by now that tristate is an expert on every issue.

However, you were wrong about one thing. This was not the dumbest statement ever made on an online forum. Over the last year or so, tristate has made many statements that, believe it or not, are even dumber. It would take a true idiot to judge which of all of his statements is the "dumbest."

Thank you for providing me with a good laugh during my lunch break.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal

 

[Tristate]

Hawkeye,

Would you care to back up Vanilla's statements that a right to privacy is only to protect against government employees. Would you care to state that when you are on public property you no longer have any right to privacy. Do you agree with Vanilla? That's what vanilla believes. DO you believe the same?

 

[Spotnstalk80]

Most people who name deer fall into one of two categories. They name deer on their hit list, and they name deer they see when they are out hugging trees. Just curious which category trophymuley falls into? Sounds like he may be upset some of his hit list deer are gone and that's what twisted his panties up so much. Don't know a single hunter who's forking over their papers either when some shmuck asks for em unless they are wearing a badge. Hope Trophy has good dental coverage if he's running around checking people's papers and checking tags on deer.

 

[trophymuley]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-11-13 AT 04:40PM (MST)[p]
My my we seem to have a good list of people pms'ing today. So much so we seem to have two people who have made a couple fake profiles just to rag on me.(spotnstalk, beingawiener) What's the matter? Are you one of the guys who shot one of the deer? Maybe their friends? I have no desire or need to defend myself to you. If you want to go ragging on someone, go ahead, you just make yourself look bad. As for hilltop hunter. That was actually a pretty comical rant. I think i kinda like the name trophymulebeard and take it as a compliment to be labeled as a duck dynasty guy. those guys are hilarious and have great values. Besides that, nice try mike, your not worth my time. I find it interesting that the news article gets out and a good flow of people jump on here with their pitchforks ready to attack. Something about the article upset you guys?

As far as checking tags goes. For one, if your not doing anything suspicious or wrong and somebody were to bother you about tags, I'm sure I would be bugged about it to some point as well. It doesn't mean I would "choke them out or tell them to f off.Somewhere along this post it went from asking a suspicious hunter what's going on to someone running around playing police. Just to clarify (again) this is a rare case in which I would ask someone to show me there tags as well as how it would be approached. Whether a tag is displayed or not it is more so to pick up on suspicious behavior. 99 percent of the time asking such is not necessary and a call to the fish and game would suffice. I, just as much as the next hunter don't want to be bothered while i am out recreating However in rare circumstances where one is out of cell range and it is obvious something illegal is happening making a stand and having the balls to gather as much evidence simply proves A point that more than just dwr officers will catch people poaching. However being smart about it becomes essential.if someone is poaching they sure as crap aren't going to be friendly about giving amy evidence up and will definitely be pissed about you not "minding your own business". it is always helpful to collect as much evidence as possible for the proper authorities if something illegal is being done. So next time you decide to get upset or "knock someone's teeth out just rember that It makes you look that much more guilty even if you aren't doing anything wrong.
There is no need to further dispute this drifting argument that is now being monotonously rehashed. I respect your views if you disagree,and i agree to disagree.
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[beingaweiner]

No I am not one of the people that shot the deer nor am I their friends!!!The question is did you not shoot a deer in north logan?
Right by your friends moms house???? The one that got away or maybe you just forgot!!!So pound salt you delusional A typical mormon that dont do anything wrong

 

[Clyde Hollinger]

>This is not a DWR issue,
>it is a police issue.
>
>
>The DWR would be concerned if
>he had a valid tag
>for the area. If
>he did, it is not
>a poaching issue.
>
>The police issue could come in
>to play for shooting within
>city limits, depending on the
>city ordinances.
>
>
>Poaching - not guilty
>
>Shooting within city limits - perhaps
>guilty

WTH???!! How is it not a DWR issue as well?? He took protected wildlife while doing something illegal = POACHING. The DWR has jurisdiction within the City as well. So, either the PD OR the DWR could handle this case. More than likely it's a DWR case.


"Speak It Like It Is, Not Like It Ain't"

 

[Spotnstalk80]

Fake profile, that's a good one. Just because I don't have as many posts as the next guy surely that makes me a fake.

Clarify for me what exactly qualifies as "suspicious activity" in your Barney Fife handbook? Are you really that dense that more hunters than not will take issue with you questioning them? DWR was created to investigate, detain and if need be arrest offenders. If you want to do that I suggest you start by filling out an application for employment there. Until you do so I would suggest perhaps getting a good physical description a license plate a location and keeping your distance from folks. You are not the law and I'm willing to bet your interpretation of "suspicious activity" is quite off the mark. You won't even address someone's accusations of you shooting a buck apparently in a neighborhood. He who is without sin cast the first stone me friend, seems you've been chucking a lot of stones but perhaps you shouldn't be?

 

[trophymuley]

So we are now referring to an incident years ago. now to elaborate for the sake of mr "beingawiener" After speaking to a police officer years ago about regulations on shooting a bow in north logan city limits I was informed by him that a bow could be shot as long as you were 100 yards from any residential dwelling. After asking I had an opportunity at a deer within what I thought were legal litigations. I hit high and the deer ran... And ran... And ran. I found myself sitting in a predicament I didn't think through nor find enjoyable. A deer was now running around bleeding in city limits. As I should have, I felt disgusted shamed and embarrassed and knew anybody who may have seen that deer was now looking down at hunters. I followed the deer for two days hoping to have what I believed to be another legal opportunity to finish him but after two days, to my luck the deer was no longer bleeding and seemed to look perfectly healthy. I did have other opportunities to shoot him again but felt the risks of going through that fiasco weren't worth what I was trying to achieve. A year or so later I learned that there was a poundage restriction on bows being shot in city limits. So thus I had been breaking the law and didn't even know it. Did it make it right or ok? No. I should have dug in deeper to make sure that what I was going to do was legal. After I found out I shared the whole experience with Dwr so that it wouldn't come back to bite me in moments such as this. Given the circumstances any charges were dismissed and this clearing me of the incident. I learned a very valuable lesson. Since then local officials have done more to clarify this growing concern. If you hadn't noticed in my original post it states " If they were killed legally then cudos to the guy that shot the pet at ten yards" if killing a virtually tame deer in legal hunting ground is your thing then I can respect that. It's your method of hunting and if its legal then I'm glad you found a method that suits you
So to clarify for you mr bob blow, the point of this was not to dog on those who legally shoot deer that wander in and out of city limits but to try to put a stop to those who know full well that shooting them in city limits is illegal.
So here I sit "pounding salt" over a predicament I found myself in years ago as an "atypical Mormon who (DOESN'T) do anything wrong. You know since I always claim to be so high and mighty.
Ill be the first person to admit I have broken rules in the past and I can have a short fuse and lose my temper at times as well. In nowhere near perfect but I do learn from my mistakes
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[trophymuley]

Learn to read
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"

 

[Founder]

OK, enough of this. Gone too far.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com