Thursday is the Day -- Wildlife Board Meeting

Hawkeye

Hawkeye

Long Time Member
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I know that many of us are counting down the days until the Utah archery hunt opens this Saturday. However, I would hope that we also have Thursday marked on our calendars. This Thursday August 16th the Utah Wildlife Board will consider the UWC's proposed amendment to the Utah Convention Permit Rule. I have included the link to the agenda for the meeting: http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/pdf/2012-08_board_agenda.pdf I have also included the link to the packet of materials for the Board meeting: http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/info/2012-08_board_packet.pdf The language of the proposed rule amendment can be found on pages 157 to 167.

The Board meeting starts at 9:00 a.m. However, you will notice that the proposed amendment is item 12 on the agenda. Therefore, the Board will likely address the proposed amendment late in the morning or shortly after lunch. The Board Meeting will be held at the DNR Building (1594 North Temple, SLC, Utah).

Please come join us at the Board Meeting. I believe that the conservation groups, and possibly even the DWR, are counting on the fact that we as sportsmen have traditionally failed to show up at these type of meetings. If you have complained about this issue in the past, this is your opportunity to stand up and be heard. If you are ever going to get involved and attend a Board meeting, now is the time. I truly believe that we can fix this problem if we stand together and demand change. Come to the meeting and bring your friends and family members. A great deal of time and effort has been spent by many people to get this on the agenda. It would be a shame to squander this opportunity.

If for any reason you cannot make it to the meeting, please send an email to the members of the Wildlife Board at the following address: [email protected] We need to flood the Wildlife Board with written comments in support of the UWC's proposed amendment. It is time for the Wildlife Board to impose some accountability and transparency requirements.

Please take the time to get involved.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
"It is time for the Wildlife Board to impose some accountability and transparency requirements."


And give the UWC control of %90 of $5.
 
Good to see ya still trolling around trollstate..

Carry on D.F.




2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-12 AT 06:31AM (MST)[p]What a D I C K!!! I see he still doesn't know how to express a percentage either, LOL!
 
"Good to see ya still trolling around trollstate.."

You hate the truth don't you.

By the way topgun, between the two of us I am the only one that can do math correctly.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-12 AT 07:15AM (MST)[p]"By the way topgun, between the two of us I am the only one that can do math correctly."

So says the dimwit that writes %90, LOL! You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the azz Mr. Instigator. Why don't you start your own "Anti UWC" thread instead of coming on these just trying to be a jerk, even though you've proven you're a dang good one!!! If nothing else we'll keep this thread at the top. GUYS---Please make sure and get to that meeting. All of us guys that are in other states are rooting for you to do your thing on Thursday, since all we can do is get behind you with our emails like we're doing!
 
"You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the azz Mr. Instigator."

Really???? Could you elaborate on what I said in my original statement here that was not true???? Are you saying that part of the purpose of the meeting and petition is not to change control of the $5 fees?????
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-12 AT 07:06AM (MST)[p]It is exactly that and it's the Board and DWR who would have control over how that 90% is spent like the original vote that was adopted by the Board intended it to be in the first place when the tags were created. It would be identical to the way the auction tag proceeds are handled and has absolutely nothing to do with UWC taking or getting control of anything as the wildlife officials are the ones who monitor and audit how the funds are dispersed. There is nothing in the amendment asking that the UWC take control over anything and you dang well know it, unless you are as bad at reading comprehension as you are in how to express math percentages. Now come back again with your childish BS retort that was simply one wrong keystroke in one of my posts! I really wonder what satisfaction you get out of trying to disprupt threads like this! I know one thing and that is that you sure aren't creating any taxidermy business for yourself by being the jerk you are on this site, but as big as Houston is I'm sure you can get along fine without any of our business.
 
I will be there thanks for the reminder come on guys make time to get this done!!!!
 
"It is exactly that and it's the Board and DWR who would have control over how that 90% is spent like the original vote that was adopted by the Board intended it to be in the first place when the tags were created. It would be identical to the way the auction tag proceeds are handled and has absolutely nothing to do with UWC taking or getting control of anything as the wildlife officials are the ones who monitor and audit how the funds are dispersed. There is nothing in the amendment asking that the UWC take control over anything and you dang well know it, unless you are as bad at reading comprehension as you are in how to express math percentages. Now come back again with your childish BS retort that was simply one wrong keystroke in one of my posts!"

So If you petition the governing bodies, to do what you want them to do with funds, you don't think that is controlling them?????????? You can't be that naive?????? Are you????


"I really wonder what satisfaction you get out of trying to disprupt threads like this! I know one thing and that is that you sure aren't creating any taxidermy business for yourself by being the jerk you are on this site, but as big as Houston is I'm sure you can get along fine without any of our business."

The satisfaction is exposing bull for what it is. I am not here to drum up taxidermy business. That is the typical short sighted perspective that I would expect from you. I am trying to show that divisive ANTI-HUNTING behavior is both bad for bringing new hunters into our sport and for dealing with true conservation issues that would increase availibility off tags for all hunters. It is time to start looking to the real long term future of hunting and quit bickering like greedy fools over a stupid $5 fee.
 
I'm in Hawkeye.
Tristate has continually tried to disrail this topic and every thread associated with it until you posted the minutes from the meeting back in 2005. Now you send out a reminder to us hunters and here he is again trying to convince anyone that will listen that UWC wants part of the money. After painlessly explaining and referring to many quotes from the UWC and countless others here that it is only getting these funds accounted for, he still refuses to see the true purpose and tries to distort the efforts being made, to help insure that the minutes from that 2005 meeting are followed through with.
I sincerely doubt he will attend the meeting on Thursday to voice his support or disagreement with the proposed amendment, however, if he does, I would truly like to meet him there.

Thanks again Hawkeye, see you Thursday.
 
"After painlessly explaining and referring to many quotes from the UWC and countless others here that it is only getting these funds accounted for,"

How can I believe anything about a "true purpose" when you print a flat out lie such as that? Wanting accounting and demanding control of $5 are two different things, and that makes your claim of "only" false.
 
I will be chasing speed goats in Wyoming on Thursday so I can't attend. But I sent my email.

Please everyone, even if you can attend the meeting. Send an email. It certainly won't hurt our cause for the Board to be bombarded with like-minded voices.

Grizzly
 
"Tristate do you remember when I hope make a killing at the expo?"

Can you explain what this means please?
 
Tristate to you have a buddy at SFW or MDF who's going to lose his christmas bonus if these funds go to wildlife???
 
>Tristate do you have a buddy
>at SFW or MDF who's
>going to lose his christmas
>bonus if these funds go
>to wildlife???
 
I won't be able to make it but sent in emails. Some family members and friends will be there!
 
Due to distance involved I will only be able to listen, but I also sent another letter to the Board today asking that they do what's right to correct the error the previous Board made by not following through with a proper contract.
 
No I do not. I look a lot farther than the next Christmas bonus. I am trying to look out for the next generation of hunters who will be afforded less opportunity because a bunch of greedy people thought the war was with other hunters over a few hundred thousand dollars and a couple of tags.
 
>No I do not. I
>look a lot farther than
>the next Christmas bonus.
>I am trying to look
>out for the next generation
>of hunters who will be
>afforded less opportunity because a
>bunch of greedy people thought
>the war was with other
>hunters over a few hundred
>thousand dollars and a couple
>of tags.
_______________________________________

Looking at Christmas bonus 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and beyond?

YOU are in the "Greedy group", mr. tristate.
 
Ben---

I am %99 (sic) sure that you can get up and have the Microphone all to yourself if you would just show up at the WB meeting on Thursday.

You have every right?? to convince everyone in attendance of your internet logic.

Please introduce yourself to the many of us that will be in attendance and share your thoughts/logic within the Open Forum of the WB meeting.

See ya there Ben.

Robb
 
>Ben---
>
>I am %99 (sic) sure that
>you can get up and
>have the Microphone all to
>yourself if you would just
>show up at the WB
>meeting on Thursday.
>
>You have every right?? to convince
>everyone in attendance of your
>internet logic.
>
>Please introduce yourself to the many
>of us that will be
>in attendance and share your
>thoughts/logic within the Open Forum
>of the WB meeting.
>
>See ya there Ben.
>
>Robb


Sorry, can't be there. Why do you think I am spending so much time talking to you about it now.
 
Well the reminder was greatly needed due to a crazy week at work. But I told you Hawkeye that I would be there and I meant it. I'm hoping many show up to support this amendment and demand accountability.

What's funny is after reading through this thread with the comments, all I did was read through Tristates first post and looked at the name. From that point on the further I went down through the posts I looked at who posted before I read it. Skipping all the rest of Tristates posts. Don't know what he said (typed) but I'm sure it wasn't intelligent.

Again, thanks for all you do Hawkeye and I'll introduce myself to you at the meeting. Hope to meet others of you from this site as well.
Have a good one.

Chris
 
You are one smart feller BillyBoB, as he didn't say anything other than more BS to make a bigger azz of himself than he already has these last couple weeks!
 
Great job Hawkeye. As I told you before I will be there.

Now, lets all act like adults and treat Tri-or Bi-state (which ever fits him better) like the red headed step child he is and ignore his posts. He will give up soon, trust me, the weak ones always do.
 
E-mail sent since I have to work that day. I hope all those who can make the meeting attend and make their voices heard.
 
>No I do not. I
>look a lot farther than
>the next Christmas bonus.
>I am trying to look
>out for the next generation
>of hunters who will be
>afforded less opportunity because a
>bunch of greedy people thought
>the war was with other
>hunters over a few hundred
>thousand dollars and a couple
>of tags.

Can you explain what this means, please?
 
"Can you explain what this means, please?"

Sure. There are a couple of things wrong with how the UWC is approaching conservation issues. Attacking another conservation organization politicaly is one of the dumbest things anyone in hunting could be doing right now. There needs to be a unification and civility amongst hunters right now. Now I understand, and I have agreed that there should be open disclosure amongst groups recieving tags from the state. Mainly because amongst our anti-hunting apponents it will convey that none of us are hiding or ashamed of the good things we do for wildlife. However it all becomes tarnished by this %90 of $5 demand. First it makes the UWC look greedy as if the entire thing is a disguise for a money grab. Second it makes the UWC look foolish and petty because they are fighting over peanuts in dollar figures. Last, it divides hunters when the representatives here for the UWC act like it isn't part of the agenda.

The fact is this. Western states are recognizing that the draw system as a wildlife management system is starting to fail the public, and at the same time leave dollars on the table, that near broke wildlife agencies, could be using. Now there are other options for them out there but they have a giant population of hunters that have become dependant upon the old system. People that have lived their entire life dealing with draw systems for their hunting opportunities are scared to death of change, plus they feel that they will not be able to benefit for years of points they have accumulated. So the state wildlife agencies can not just rip the band aid off in one quick swoop and risk the political fall-out. They realize that the states must Capitolize their resources, like wildlife, if they are to succeed in future conservation projects and more importantly in legal battles which are more and more often deciding the fate of both hunting and conservation within each state. Lets face it pretty much everyone that is in the hunting industry pretty much believes that USFWS is an anti-hunting group. They have damn near unlimited funds to try and shove agendas down the throats of the states. Fighting the US government is going to be a very expensive proposition for these states in the future that frankly their wildlife budgets can't support under current fiscal practices. The expo and the conservation tags are just like puting your toe in the water to see what its like before just diving in. They get to take a couple hundred tags, a minority amount, and see what happens when the capitol advantage is applied. Suddenly the state gets to see how much they are actually worth, not just a fixed number decided by a board that never has to deal with profit/loss or competition. At the same time they get to see on a small scale how the public reacts to it. The fact is that the states must find the true value of a hunting tag and capitolize on it as much as possible. While at the same time privatizing as much of the actual game management as possible. This is the future of western hunting. It has to be or the end is near.
 
You're full of baloney and need to move to Europe since you obviously are in favor of a aystem where all tags are sold on the open market for as much as can be made on them, thus eliminating all but the wealthy from hunting. You must have some Peay blood in you dude!!! Is he your Daddy?, LOL!!!
 
"You're full of baloney and need to move to Europe since you obviously are in favor of a aystem where all tags are sold on the open market for as much as can be made on them, thus eliminating all but the wealthy from hunting."

Do you really think that is what determines hunting opportunity in Europe????? If red stag tags were 2 euros the exact same people would be getting to do the hunting over there. Look at what it takes to have a weapon and the amount of land they have available to hunt.

Has it ever occured to you that some of the tags might actually fall in price???????
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-12 AT 08:57AM (MST)[p]Has it ever occurred to you to STFU when everyone on this site has told you they've had enough of your BS? Obviously not!
 
"Has it ever occurred to you to STFU when everyone on this site has told you they've had enough of your BS? Obviously not!"

I guess this is what it all boils down to. No more good arguements for your greedy agenda, so you just start cussing like a teenage boy.
 
It all boils down to you being the only dipchit on this site that can't see the forest for the trees on this subject. There is no greed involved, other than the screwed up agenda you appear to be pushing with wealth tags, but you're keeping these two threads TTT. That's great and what we need today so everyone is aware of the meeting tomorrow and either goes there or emails the Board in support of the UWC proposal.
 
"There is no greed involved, other than the screwed up agenda you appear to be pushing with wealth tags,"

And now you are back to class warfare. Lets get right down to the root of the problem. You just hate the fact people have more money than you, and money equates to hunting opportunity. Many times you have stated I need to move to another country because I believe in something but in fact your hatred for "wealth" and those that have it is the least American viewpoint on this sight.
 
Just sent the board an email. As a NR I am unable to attend, but hope that common sense prevails in this matter.

Thank you to those who have worked hard to get this issue pushed to the surface.
 
Sent my e-mail. Really wish I could be there but work isn't looking like it is going to allow me to do so.

Will continue to try and make it.

Thanks Hawkeye for all of your work on this issue.


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-12 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]Tri:
You're talking out your azz again because you have no idea of my wealth and FYI I could buy any of those auction tags if I was so inclined, but that's not my idea of hunting when I would essentially be buying an animal. When you have a 1/2 million in savings come back and talk to me! For now, just keep spouting off and you may get something right one of these years, but you missed this one by a country mile like most everything else you post Mr. Smartazz!
 
S.L. Trib Article

Take a look at Brett Pretyman's article in the Salt Lake Tribune.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/5...fe-money-utah.html.csp?utm_source=twitterfeed

There was a time when Tye Boulter was content to pay the $5 application fee, cross his fingers and hope to be one of the lucky ones to draw a Utah hunting permit offered at the annual Western Hunting & Conservation Expo held in Salt Lake City.

But at some point he started wondering what happened to his money and that of the thousands of others doing the same, money that can total more than $1 million annually; none of which is required to go back to the state, which issues the permits.

President of the United Wildlife Cooperative, Boulter and others investigated the "convention tag" program managed by nonprofit hunting groups hosting the show and realized there was little accountability for how the money was spent.

Perhaps even more troubling is that it appears some of that money is being used to lobby lawmakers on issues that divide some of the hunting groups.

"The money is not earmarked in any way. They could buy a condo in Bermuda for all we knew. They should be held accountable, and the money should go back to the state or the public," Boulter said. "The ultimate issue is that public resource funds are being used to support whatever agendas these groups want to support. They say they represent all sportsmen in Utah on these important issues, but they don't."

The Convention Permit program was born in 2005 when the Utah Wildlife Board approved a proposal to allocate a maximum of 200 hunting permits annually to the Western Hunting & Conservation Expo as an attempt to draw more people to Salt Lake City for the national convention.

The expo is heading into its seventh year in February 2013 and the convention permits are wildly popular. Mule Deer Foundation (MDF) President Miles Moretti says about 12,000 people applied for the convention tags last winter and many of them applied for more than one hunt.

The $5 per-hunt application fees have generated between $800,000 to more than $1 million a year.

Alan Clark, assistant director of the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources, said state officials attend the drawings to ensure "nothing unusual happens" and that the groups are following the rules as approved by the Utah Wildlife Board.

Any changes to the convention tag rule will have to come from the board and that seems unlikely any time soon since four years remain on the current contract with MDF and Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

story continues belowstory continues below Boulter, through the United Wildlife Cooperative, gathered more than 1,000 online signatures petitioning the Utah Wildlife Board to modify the current rule on convention tags to be similar to the popular, and much larger, conservation permit program. Ninety percent of the money raised from the auctioning of those tags is required to be used by preapproved conservation projects in Utah. Groups handling the auctions for those permits are allowed to keep 10 percent of the funds as handling fees.

Those concerns will be addressed at a Utah Wildlife Board meeting starting at 9 a.m. Thursday at the Department of Natural Resources building, 1594 W. North Temple. The convention tags issue is expected to come up after a lunch break.

The cost of promoting, holding and awarding the convention permits is high, according to Moretti, but he acknowledges that a large portion of the money remains when obligations are fulfilled.

"We do have some left over," Moretti said. "Some people would like to us spend more on projects. There are many ways to do conservation."

He said the groups have dedicated funds from the convention tag program to projects including bitter brush planting, flashing deer signs, wildlife water guzzler installations, pinyon and juniper thinning and National Archery in the Schools. Moretti said money has also been used for informing the public and the Legislature on efforts like the creation of the Mule Deer Protection Act, predator control and the delisting of wolves from the federal Endangered Species List.



Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
Laughable comments from miles.

Bi-state, straight from the horses mouth (Miles) "there are left over funds".

Now who's math is off?
 
When did I ever say there was no money left over??????? If you want a quick answer I never did. I just argued that snatching up %90 of a fee could be a bad decision and that actual costs can exceed 50 cents per fee. My math has been spot on. Your assumptions about my beliefs are out of left field.
 
How serious do you think I will take that comment considering it came from a boy who thinks 96+6=100.
 
Could the Wildlife Board vote to move agenda item 12 to earlier on the agenda and act on it, if very few people attend the morning session of the meeting? The Board may be expecting a larger crowd in the afternoon, who may be in opposition to the Board's position on this matter, and choose to act on the item when there are less people and the press in attendance. As a NR, I won't be able to attend the meeting, but sent emails yesterday.
 
BIGFOOT---I don't believe that once the meeting agenda is published that they can alter it like you are suggesting without due notice. For them to do any such thing even if it was allowable would be a travesty and possibly a death blow to that group.
 
TOPGUN - I would hope you are correct. I'm not familar with the agenda requirments for Utah, but you have to assume that SFW and MDF have plenty of clout and contacts, and they are not going to just sit on their thumbs and do nothing. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if the unexpected takes place at the meeting. My thanks to Hawkeye and everyone who attends and for the time and work they have put into this effort. Next, how about getting the Board to change the NR application process back to the way it was before you could apply for all species. LOL!
 
>"Can you explain what this means,
>please?"
>
>Sure. There are a couple
>of things wrong with how
>the UWC is approaching conservation
>issues. Attacking another conservation
>organization politicaly is one of
>the dumbest things anyone in
>hunting could be doing right
>now. There needs to
>be a unification and civility
>amongst hunters right now.
>Now I understand, and I
>have agreed that there should
>be open disclosure amongst groups
>recieving tags from the state.
> Mainly because amongst our
>anti-hunting apponents it will convey
>that none of us are
>hiding or ashamed of the
>good things we do for
>wildlife. However it all
>becomes tarnished by this %90
>of $5 demand. First
>it makes the UWC look
>greedy as if the entire
>thing is a disguise for
>a money grab. Second
>it makes the UWC look
>foolish and petty because they
>are fighting over peanuts in
>dollar figures. Last, it
>divides hunters when the representatives
>here for the UWC act
>like it isn't part of
>the agenda.
>
>The fact is this. Western
>states are recognizing that the
>draw system as a wildlife
>management system is starting to
>fail the public, and at
>the same time leave dollars
>on the table, that near
>broke wildlife agencies, could be
>using. Now there are
>other options for them out
>there but they have a
>giant population of hunters that
>have become dependant upon the
>old system. People that
>have lived their entire life
>dealing with draw systems for
>their hunting opportunities are scared
>to death of change, plus
>they feel that they will
>not be able to benefit
>for years of points they
>have accumulated. So the
>state wildlife agencies can not
>just rip the band aid
>off in one quick swoop
>and risk the political fall-out.
> They realize that the
>states must Capitolize their resources,
>like wildlife, if they are
>to succeed in future conservation
>projects and more importantly in
>legal battles which are more
>and more often deciding the
>fate of both hunting and
>conservation within each state.
>Lets face it pretty much
>everyone that is in the
>hunting industry pretty much believes
>that USFWS is an anti-hunting
>group. They have damn
>near unlimited funds to try
>and shove agendas down the
>throats of the states.
>Fighting the US government is
>going to be a very
>expensive proposition for these states
>in the future that frankly
>their wildlife budgets can't support
>under current fiscal practices. The
>expo and the conservation tags
>are just like puting your
>toe in the water to
>see what its like before
>just diving in. They
>get to take a couple
>hundred tags, a minority amount,
>and see what happens when
>the capitol advantage is applied.
> Suddenly the state gets
>to see how much they
>are actually worth, not just
>a fixed number decided by
>a board that never has
>to deal with profit/loss or
>competition. At the same
>time they get to see
>on a small scale how
>the public reacts to it.
>The fact is that the
>states must find the true
>value of a hunting tag
>and capitolize on it as
>much as possible. While
>at the same time privatizing
>as much of the actual
>game management as possible.
>This is the future of
>western hunting. It has
>to be or the end
>is near.

I ask you to explain a simple statement about how this proposal will afford less opportunity to hunt for the next generation and you reply with a long drawn-out disertation full of false assumptions about other people's thinking and goals, the mixing up of at least 2 different programs, some economic misinformation, some futuristic social predictions and lots of philosphy thrown in for good (or bad) measure. I ask you again, please explain! And this time, explain it to the next generation you're so concerned for in ways that they will understand!
 
The wildlife board meeting has started. The proposed amendment will likely be discussed after lunch. Please take the time to join us.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
I'm getting it loud and clear just like I was there in the room. Thanks Hawkeye and good luck this afternoon!!!
 

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