To Ron Paul Supporters

[DBLung]

This might stir the pot a little so if your thin skinned you might not want to read.

I work in a small sporting goods store. I don't agree with all the hoopla we have to go through to get a gun but I do agree that felons or violent criminals shouldn't be able to own one. The other day I had a couple people come in with Ron Paul Pins and hats on. Obviously they wanted to talk politics which is normal in my store. I get a lot of people who are preparing for the end of the world. Most of them are harmless. These people proceeded to tell me how they love the outdoors. They have been deer hunting for most of their lives. But they will never buy a gun from a dealer because they don't want the government to know they own a gun. I told them if they had bought a rifle deer tag the government knows they own a gun. If the A.T.F. is going to track anyone with a gun it will be those who don't go through the proper steps to get it. I Also told them a few more ways the government can track us if they want. I almost had to catch one of them because he just about passed out. They went on to say they would rather write in Ron Paul than vote for Romney. This race is going to be so close that those guys might loose it for us.

So

If you're a Ron Paul Supporter and you feel it's your patriotic duty for write in Ron Paul, Then; When Obama wins you should be the first people to give up your guns when he comes to get them. Just because Mitt Romney isn't a big hunter doesn't mean he would do anything to the second amendment. I haven't heard about Ron Paul going hunting. I looked on his website and cant find anything about gun rights. There is no way in hell or high water Ron Paul is going to win the presidency.

The Second Amendment is keeping this country free. If Obama or the government ever go as far as repealing it, and try to collect our firearms, the government would more than likely cease to exist in the eyes of gun owners. Martial law would probably take over on a state and local basis. Would you be someone who would go door to door asking for our guns? There isn't anyone in this God given country who would be that stupid. Our own military is sworn to protect the PEOPLE from all enemies foreign, and domestic, hence, they would be on our side. Besides almost all military people I know own guns.

Thanks,

Dean

 

[TOPGUN]

Couldn't agree with you more!!!

 

[msy]

As much as I hate Obama, he was the best thing to ever happen for gun sales. Why do you think he would all of the sudden go after them?

On another note, my brother is a Ron Paul nut and says the same thing about the goverment and buying guns from dealers. It must be something he's preaching about.

 

[delmag1942]

Also as a gun dealer, the government really does not know that you have a gun.....

You fill out a 4473 form that I keep. I call you in for a NICS check (government) to see if you are "OK" to sell to you. They respond yea or nay, but never really know if you bought anything.

They would have to have the 4473 forms in hand, and I would have a mysterious fire before I coughed those up!

In addition I would like to see the Paul supporters vote for Romney. The reason that gun sales have skyrocketed is the belief that Obummer is getting another 4 years, this time with the gloves off!

 

[nickman]

LAST EDITED ON May-29-12 AT 06:57PM (MST)[p]I guess I don't get the Ron Paul connection here. He has taken no stand against firearms and in fact is adamant about the Constitution and what it means.

There can be no argument that he cannot win a presidential election......but neither can Romney. We will get "what's his name" again and it is going to be ugly.

If you REALLY think the military is going to be on "our" side, following a gun ban and collection program, you are dreaming. They will follow the orders of the Commander in Chief, as they are obligated to do.

In the face of overwhelming odds, vastly better equipped and supported, you WILL be giving up ALL your chit.

Everybody talks a good, "from my cold dead hands" story, but when you so much as put up an argument, 2 twenty two year old kids in a jeep, with a little cannon in tow, are going to drive out of your armaments' effective range, and turn your entire rancho into a greasy crater.........and they won't even have to call and ask for permission. And you won't even make the evening news.

And don't kid yourself, the "government" has a hundred ways to know who has guns. By the time this all occurs, your Constitutional rights will already be junk, so all they will have to say is...."he had a subscription to Outdoor Life, and that was good enough for us".

"I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and
sh!t a better argument than that!"

 

[DBLung]

Right delmag1942. A fire might pop up here as well.

 

[c86man3]

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, but I will be voting for Romney I'm sure come election time. Paul has some crazy supporters, but what candidate doesn't?

 

[RELH]

delmag;

I tell you a little secreate about those 4473 forms. If you remember when Clinton was in office and Janet Reno was A.G. There was a big stink in Congress about ATF keeping those 4473 forms to create a computer list of all guns and owners listed on them.
This was during the time that more restrictions were being placed on FFL holders and many small time and home operation FFL holders were giving up their firearms licenses and had to send their log book and 4473 forms into ATF.

The head of ATF, under Janet Reno, who was a anti gun idiot, testified to Congress that the forms would not be used to comply a list and would be destroyed after 30 days when they received them.

As a major crimes investigator I had the occasion to investigate a burgalry that involved the theft of over 20 guns from a citizen. This was about two years after the above Congress hearing. The gun owner did not have a list of serial numbers for his guns, but had purchased the majority of them from a sporting goods place that had closed down about a year before the burglary.

Just on the offchance, I contacted ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. and spoke with Betty Lou. Yes that was her real name and she did have a southern accent. I told her my problem. She asked for the victim's name and date of birth and his driver's license number.
Within 2 hours she faxed me a copy of 12 4473 forms on guns he had purchased from that store which was about 12 guns.

Now you know why I do not trust ATF and our Gov. in general.

RELH

 

[mozey]

I'm registered as an Independent, but consider myself a Libertarian. Except for his isolationist views, I like Ron Paul a lot; but in the end I'm going to vote for one of the two candidates that actually has a chance to win. That narrows my choices to Romney or Obama, or a choice between someone I agree with on about 70 percent of the issues that matter to me vs someone I agree with only 30 percent.

I don't see the point of voting for someone that I agree with on 80-90 percent of the issues if that someone has zero chance of winning--might as well write my own name in because at least then I'd be voting for someone that I agree with 100 percent of the time... ;-)

Here's hoping for Romney.

 

[Zigga]

Isn't Obama President NOW??? I'm confused or is this just another rwj thing?

 

[RELH]

Yes Ziggy, he is the jackass we have for a president thanks to all the gullable idiots that voted for him.

RELH

 

[mulecreek]

Good Lord!! Not another thread about how Obama is coming for your guns. There are so many valid reasons to think Obama is a poor choice for President (health care law that will not cheapen healthcare, created poor climate for private job creation, accomplished virtually nothing in 4 years, etc). Why do you feel the need to make up stuff to make him seem like a evil gun rights hater? It's just as easy to get a gun today as it was 4 years ago. Start making a real arguement instead of this paranoid, overly simplistic hatred that he is just waiting to take your guns.

 

[ASB]

I don't know about being paranoid, but you are mistaken if you think he will ignor the gun issue if re-elected. One thing for sure if he get's voted back in. He has the potential to appoint up to two supreme court justices in the next 4 years. It is 5-4 right now in terms of the 2nd Amendment. The 2 potential appointee's would come out of the majority that is conservative toward our rights as sportsmen & women. I believe he will get to appoint at least one of the two (second may be 5 yrs from retiring). Does anyone here think he will appoint someone that favors guns?

That is the real power he will have. Guns are one issue, just think how other issues will go when it is 4-5 as to what you think is right.

 

[mulecreek]

I do. So far one of his two appointees shows a love of hunting. Elena Kagan has taken up hunting with Scalia. She is even coming to Wyoming this year to hunt an antelope. Once again if his goal is to take your guns then he sucks at that as much as he does everything else he touches. Do the research before you worry yourself over a non issue.

 

[TOPGUN]

mulecreek---You might want to do some research of your own. Besides "Fast & Furious" that he and Holder obviously allowed, guess who issued a Presidential Directive and is not allowing all the rifles Korea gave back to us recently to be sold to legal US citizens. Those rifles were similar to thousands, if not millions, of firearms that have been made available to the public for decades when nations return them to us. No, the answer is not Bush, LOL! If BO is re-elected and has 4 lame duck years to push stuff forward with his ahole AG Holder and the rest of his nincompoops up there, including appointing 1 or 2 more Supreme Court Justices who serve for life, we will probably feel like we were in heaven the last 4 years! So Kagan is going antelope hunting! Do you think with her previous background and decisions made that she will do a 180 when it comes to decisions on the bench? If she does it would be a first! I will not bet against him though with what the Rs have come up with to run against him. You know the guy that went elk, or was it moose hunting, not too long ago to show he's on our side of the Second Amendment issue, LOL!

 

[DBLung]

RELH,
I have worked for a few gun shops over the last few decades. 4473 forms stay with the dealer. When you call in a background the only info you give them is hand gun or long gun, and their ID. Unless California does it different and that wouldn't surprise me at all.

The ATF has contacted me about a gun or two looking for more info on it. Usually used in a crime. People call me all the time asking to look up their own 4473 for insurance purposes. Even then I wont give it to them. They need to come in and show ID. So no the ATF doesn't have any secrets about keeping 4473's on file in some secret program. They just call us to get it. There's paperwork for it.

 

[mulecreek]

TG - Both of your examples may very well be foolish policy. I do not neccasarily disagree with that, actually that is more information that President Obama is not very good at his job. But those are a far cry from trying to remove the 2nd Amendment and prevent US citizens from owning guns.

And yes I do think the peoples experiences in life help shape their views. I also think that people can change their views as they get new experiences. I doubt highly that everything you thought was a good idea when you were younger is in agreement with your current views. I know it isn't for me. One of the big reasons that some in this country want gun control laws is because the only experience they have with guns is from gun violence. The more exposure they get to guns and the people that use them for recreation, hunting, collecting, just general, legal fun things to use a gun for the more they understand that killing inocent people is not the only purpose for guns.

As far as Rommney goes, he may not know the difference between and elk and moose but to be honest I am not voting for him becasue of his ability to classify animals. I want a president that has accomplished the tasks he took on. I also want one that shares the same general view on how this countries government should work for the people. Rommney fills that bill much better than Obama.

 

[TOPGUN]

Why do you think BO made those two Supreme Court appointments? The answer is because a President appoints persons to those types of positions that have the same ideology. Those two women Justices are not young kids approaching adulthood and who might change their philosophy. They are middleaged women who have a terrible history, just as does BO, when it comes down to what I would hope you, as well as I, espouse for our country. They may now be around for several decades making major decisions affecting our country in many ways. Your last sentence is pretty hard to disagree with when even my straight A 13 year old grandaughter could probably replace Romney in a scenario involving BO. IMHO BO has been a complete embarrassment to our country these last 3 1/2 years and will probably get 4 more to do even more harm than he already has. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are again stuck with two persons running for the highest office in our country where neither one are worth a damn IMHO, so basically it again comes down to choosing between two persons that both lack what the Office demands. Until our country can get past the two major party system we presently have to where an Independent has a real chance at winning, we are in deep chit IMHO!

 

[DoeNob]

The Dem's aren't coming for your guns. They remember what happened last time, its a non-starter, they haven't made a push since the Clinton administration and there's been no shortage of fuel for the fire (gifford, UVA etc etc etc). They know it is not an issue the American public is behind. They may pander to their constituents while campaigning, but they know that any gun grab is going to cause them to get slaughtered in the next congressional election, they'd much rather keep the house and the presidency and attempt more social engineering than fight a losing 2nd amendment battle.

And yes, I'll continue to vote libertarian as long as the 2 major parties continue to destroy what once was the greatest economic engine in the history of the world.

 

[schmalts]

If the GOP needs Paul supporters votes so bad maybe they should have stood behind someone who is a true conservative, or at least someone who was a little in line more with Paul. To think that Romney is on the ballet makes me want to puke.
_____________________________
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[Avsman]

The US government won't have to take your guns when Obama or Hilliary sign the small arms treaty with the UN.

Romney isn't my first choice canidate but he is the only other horse in the race and if we want to have a chance at turning this courtry around it has to start with him so in my opinion its Romney or Bust literally.


"WHEN INJUSTICE BECOMES LAW" "REVOLUTION
BECOMES DUTY" unknown

Windage and elevation pilgrim windage and elevation

 

[TOPGUN]

"The US government won't have to take your guns when Obama or Hilliary sign the small arms treaty with the UN."

In case you aren't aware of it, it takes a 2/3 vote by Congress before BO or ms Billrey can do squat and that ain't gonna happen! Even if it did, who will take them? Your second statement about the election on the other hand is probably a lot closer to the truth.

 

[piper]

Are you guys talking about the same Ron Paul who says he would sell all the public lands to the highest bidder? good choice, a real good choice for western hunters. Santorum says he would sell public land also, and Romney just says he just can't understand why the government owns so much land.