To: Trailcamera Thiefs and Vandals From: Fired up Sportsman

N

nontypical210

Guest
so today while checking my trail cameras I found that some prick trashed cameras and ruined them. I can't seem to understand why people do this. Can somebody help me understand why people do these stupid mindless things. So now here I am replacing a camera. I thought I would give everyone on here a chance to help me understand this stupid action. There are a lot of people on this site someone that has done this, let's hear from you. Cmon tell us why you would touch someone elses camera? Are you afraid that you can take competion in "your" area? ? Tell us why? Explain your actions it will help us all weed your type out from among the true Hunters.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-13 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]"Explain your actions it will help us all weed your type out from among the true Hunters"

I think "weed" is the operative word! Free camera = easy drug money!

Lost my quad runner last Year to some of these little wankers!



Best of Luck,
Jeff
http://www.elkmtngear.com
 
I also use trailcameras, and it really sucks when people mess with them or take them.

But......

I have come to the conclusion that if you are willing to leave your camera out on public ground, you have to accept the risks associated with it.

Would you leave your Iphone in the middle of a public parking lot and expect everyone to leave it alone? There are people out there that dont care about stealing, damaging, or messing with other peoples property. If you put your camera out, you should accept the risks.

Just my opinion
 
Yes I agree but i believe that the people doing this are fellow sportsman. I say this because my cameras were seven miles back in the middle of nowhere. Only a hunter would be back in that hellhole. Hunters should respect other Hunters stuff. I leave my car places all the time I don't worry much about getting my windows and engine stolen. It's respect. Hunters are or should be better than the general public.
 
>Yes I agree but i believe
>that the people doing this
>are fellow sportsman. I say
>this because my cameras were
>seven miles back in the
>middle of nowhere. Only a
>hunter would be back in
>that hellhole. Hunters should respect
>other Hunters stuff. I leave
>my car places all the
>time I don't worry much
>about getting my windows and
>engine stolen. It's respect. Hunters
>are or should be better
>than the general public.



Not always could be some pot growers.
 
Guys, where elkmtn & I live...it's a different world. Between Kali's AB 109 program and the growers, you just don't want to leave anything alone. I only have cams on private property, and some of those have a "back up cam" watching the 1st cam itself. It's sad, truly sad. I'm trying to have some patience living here, but they're running out.
 
The stupid thing is the douche just busted my camera didn't even steal it. He took the batteries out and dismantled it so it is useless. Then to piss me off more he left the sd card in it but erased the pictures. Simply put he didn't want me to enjoy the pictures and he was mad that he couldn't get the camera.
 
Seven miles in and someone stumbled across your trail camera..?? Dang- that's bad luck...

There's no one response NT210- some people do it for money, others do it to send a message, some are drug dealers who would kill you if they had found you... There are bad people everywhere in the world, the woods are no exception.

Additionally, I have to agree that you do take your chances, though I'd like to think as you do, that sportsmen wouldn't do this kind of stuff to other sportsmen...

I'm gonna say in your case, it's Mexican drug growers... :)

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
I watched two fellow hunters steal my GPS and drive off right in front of me and that was 10 years ago. Had a few tree stands stolen. We have plenty of scumbag hunters in our ranks and I doubt most of them would frequent a website where people actually care about morals or ethics. Plenty of people buddy hunt with one tag here too and I have met a few of them. Just because they hunt does not make them good people.
 
There are many people who don't want their photo taken. The wallow, spring or trail that a camera gets set on can make people feel uncomfortable. It is almost littering and an invasion of privacy. The last thing many want to see as they explore new places or visit old ones is litter on the trail or a trailcam taking their photo when they hike into a spot they want to visit. That shouldn't give anyone justification to damage or steal someone's trailcam, but might give a different perspective.
 
RE: To: Traundilcamera Thiefs and Vandals From: Fired up Sportsman

many people don't think they belong on public ground, and that's how they show it, ive lost two,
 
RE: To: Traundilcamera Thiefs and Vandals From: Fired up Sportsman

Some people traveling through the woods have things to hide...who they are with, what they are carrying, what they are wearing (or not wearing), etc.

For example, drug dealers with a can of chemicals or a bag of weed over their shoulder dislike having a time-stamped photo of them taken.

My estimate is 90% of game cams stolen or messed with were done by hunters. Unless the camera flashes, most hikers would not notice the cam or be looking for it at a trail crossing or wallow.

Leave possession unattended on public land at your own peril. This is the world we live in and complaining merely blows off steam.
 
>The stupid thing is the douche
>just busted my camera didn't
>even steal it. He took
>the batteries out and dismantled
>it so it is useless.
>Then to piss me off
>more he left the sd
>card in it but erased
>the pictures. Simply put he
>didn't want me to enjoy
>the pictures and he was
>mad that he couldn't get
>the camera.

The culprit most likely is another so called "hunter" because he obviously knows something about trail cameras and their workings. It sounds to me like you must have had your camera up in a place someone else wants to hunt and he is not happy that you have stumbled upon "his" spot. It is too bad we have to deal with these type of people in our sport and you still can't get away from all of them even seven miles off the beaten path...

Horniac
 
Put up a new one(or fix the old one to look like it still good) and put up a new trail cam watching the new/old cam.
Just make sure that watching one is well hidden and high enough they can't take it or find it. Sometime you have it down the trail a little ways or You might lose another camera, Now if you do it right, you will have some pictures to post here on MM of the jackoffs.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Gathered up a few Trail-Cams for My Brother & a couple for a Friend last Fall!

To the JACK-ASS that moved one of My Brothers Trail-Cams paid the Price!

This is the USA where people set up Trail-Cams to watch other Trail-Cams!

500 Tree's,He had to take it down & put his exactly where my Brother had his!

He thought his Lock Box was Perty Tough!

Don't Tread on Me or I'll Tread back!

Still waitin for the JACK-ASS to show that busted a Wheeler/Trail clear to a different Wallow!

That Prick will Pay!










This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
There are scumbags masquerading as hunters out there.

I work at a 'big-box' outdoors store, think Cabela's, BassPro, Etc. and I find empty boxes all the time. Stuff like duck, goose, coyote calls. I found 2 empty boxes of 300 Weatherby ammo one day.

If it's not yours, leave it alone.
 
I haven't posted on MM for a LONG time. But this subject hits close to the reason I hunt. I must be missing something, as I'm surprised someone hasn't already replied in opposition to trail cameras. There are certainly some of us that 1) take seriously the idea of 'fair chase', and 2) don't believe trail cameras belong out in our public wild/semi-wild lands. Fortunately, in the country I hunt, I haven't run into a trail camera (yet). I hope that continues to be the case. I have considered what I will do when/if I do bump into a trail camera. I am likely to remove it from a tree and leave it on the ground with a note to keep it off public property or destroy the card but leave the camera alone. I'd like to think the culprit would take the hint and remove the camera. If not, I certainly wouldn't have a problem destroying the camera as the final straw. I've been meaning to look into the legality of having trail camera's left on public lands. I'm surprised that it is legal to leave them on public land overnight. There are many places that don't allow tree stands to be left out overnight, so I guess I'm unclear as to why trail camera's would be any different. I know my response sounds extreme. But I spend my time out in wild lands chasing wild animals primarily to explore wild country. Bumping into something like a trail camera is an offense to the wild country and doesn't belong there. MHO.

Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_pub.jpg
 
Gettin to where you Can't even take a Whizz without a Trail Cam on you in TARDville!




This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
>I haven't posted on MM for
>a LONG time. But
>this subject hits close to
>the reason I hunt.
>I must be missing something,
>as I'm surprised someone hasn't
>already replied in opposition to
>trail cameras. There are
>certainly some of us that
>1) take seriously the idea
>of 'fair chase', and 2)
>don't believe trail cameras belong
>out in our public wild/semi-wild
>lands. Fortunately, in the
>country I hunt, I haven't
>run into a trail camera
>(yet). I hope that
>continues to be the case.
> I have considered what
>I will do when/if I
>do bump into a trail
>camera. I am likely
>to remove it from a
>tree and leave it on
>the ground with a note
>to keep it off public
>property or destroy the card
>but leave the camera alone.
> I'd like to think
>the culprit would take the
>hint and remove the camera.
> If not, I certainly
>wouldn't have a problem destroying
>the camera as the final
>straw. I've been meaning
>to look into the legality
>of having trail camera's left
>on public lands. I'm
>surprised that it is legal
>to leave them on public
>land overnight. There are
>many places that don't allow
>tree stands to be left
>out overnight, so I guess
>I'm unclear as to why
>trail camera's would be any
>different. I know my
>response sounds extreme. But
>I spend my time out
>in wild lands chasing wild
>animals primarily to explore wild
>country. Bumping into something
>like a trail camera is
>an offense to the wild
>country and doesn't belong there.
> MHO.
>
>Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation
>behaves well if it treats
>the natural resources as assets
>which it must turn over
>to the next generation, INCREASED
>and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
>
>
logo_pub.jpg


Sounds like you found the culprit here. Just because you don't hunt like COGriz likes to, it gives him the right to destroy property that legally belongs to you that you are using in a completely legal manner.

What a d-bag!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-13 AT 09:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-13 AT 09:28?PM (MST)

Hey EMD, keep your "personal property" off public land. It is that simple.

It has nothing to do with 'how someone hunts'. It has to do with respecting public land and other users of public land. No one should have to walk up on a wallow and see someone's trail camera plastered on a tree. At least have enough respect for other public land users and hide/camo your trail camera well enough that someone doesn't have to look at it/see/know it is there... if you truly need a hunting crutch like trail cameras in the first place.

I did some quick research about legality, how others handle trail cameras on public land, etc. I like the approach taken by Forest Service and BLM employees. They remove the personal property, leave a note, and take it to/leave it at the appropriate office lost/found location for pick-up. That seems like a sensible middle road... between destroying private property abandoned on public land to make a point and just trying to ignore the abuse of public land.

EMD, I was replying to the request to understand why individuals would destroy a trail camera. I suspect the reason people would destroy a trail camera are for the reasons I mentioned. I personally don't know why anyone would want to take (steal) a trail camera, I suspect few of these cases are people stealing a camera for their own use. It is likely, for the reasons I mentioned, people removing the trail cameras from the public National Forests and BLM land. And BTW, if you reply again, please keep your childish name calling to yourself. I enjoy an intelligent discussion, that is why I don't have a problem sharing a counter, and likely unpopular, argument. But if you can't come up with a point beyond "d-bag", you might as well stay in your crib.


Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_pub.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-13 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]Anybody that would come on this thread like you did and say they would destroy another's property just because they don't like it when it is completely legal to be there ought to be called more than a d-bag and if you got caught doing it you ought to get your azz whooped!!! PS: I would never use one, but certainly would never resort to what you have stated! That was just friggin dumb coming on this thread and even dumber to have your name and where you live on your profile, Mr. James Liden of Highlands Ranch, CO!
 
Well, Michael Stephenson of Allegan, MI, I'm glad to see that you don't hide behind a locked profile. If I had something to say that I didn't want to put my name behind, I wouldn't say it.

I have some calls to make this week to determine legality of trailcams in the western states I hunt, but I don't hunt in MI, so I could care less about your MI laws. From what little I have been able to find, it is likely trailcams are illegal in CO and UT, or significantly restricted. If they weren't, the Forest Service and BLM wouldn't be pulling them when they find them. From what I read last night, is it likely that there will be future legislation to make trailcams illegal for overnight use in many states due to their proliferation and abuse, just as overnight tree stands are illegal in many states.

Depending on what I find out on my calls to determine actual legality in the multiple western states I hunt, I may adjust my planned approach to discovered trail cams. Fortunately in the wilderness, roadless and remote country I hunt, I haven't bumped into a trailcam. I like to think it is due to the character of the hunters that are willing to put in the effort to hunt these types of areas.

I posted because the original poster wanted to know why people would remove or destroy trailcams. As I stated above, I have never destroyed a trailcam. I didn't post to upset the children that are obviously monitoring this thread. I posted to answer that question and to provide an argument for those of us that don't believe trailcams belong on public land.

I have to assume trailcam users are like ATV users or hunters in general, most are good but there are a few rotten apples that think they can do whatever they want on public lands. You and EMD act like children with your rants, name calling, threats and inabilty to make an intelligent statement. Hopefully you don't represent the majority of trailcam users. I suspect many understand my points and can appreciate that many hunters, trail riders, hikers, etc. don't want/don't want to see trailcams on public lands. For those trailcam users, I suspect a note to remove or a trip to the Forest Service/BLM office would be enough to change their behavior. For you and EMD, please leave your name with your trailcams and a note about how you feel you can use public lands in any way you want. I suspect there are many that would appreciate the opportunity to practice their baseball swing with a large nearby branch.


Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_pub.jpg
 
So If I leave my truck and horse trailer at the trailhead, You feel you should be able to use it also because it on public land or just destroy it after all it personal property left over night.Or do you decide which personal property that you don't like on public land.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
COGriz- What is the difference between counting a trail camera as "personal property" and counting my truck, or trailer, or archery target, or anything else I take into Public Lands as such..?? Which apparently you feel is your right to destroy. If my car is parked at a trailhead, it's on public land... What would you do to it..?? What if I leave my tent in the morning, hunt all day on the next ridge over..?? Shouldn't I have some expectation that my tent will be there when I return after dark, 13-14 hours later..?? And you cant' say it has to be overnight, because unless you were stalking me, you'd never see me at my tent during a hunt- it's for sleeping in only... And if you are stalking me, well, that's a whole 'nother issue.


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-13 AT 12:33PM (MST)[p]Gator/BrowningRage,

The mature response is refreshing... the lack of name calling and threats. Thank you!

I thought about the same points you made following my 'discussion' with child#1 last night... how are trail cameras different than other personal property we take onto public lands. You brought up several... trucks, trailers, targets, tents.

With trucks/trailers, these are restricted to designated roads or trailheads. I don't think these items make a good analogy compared against trail cameras, except possibly when they are used outside the law (e.g. bushwhacking off road in areas where that is not permitted and destroying the public lands by doing so). If used outside the law, the best case scenario is someone could get the license plate and turn them into the appropriate agency. And hopefully they would get a friendly visit from law enforcement, a nice fine or court date, or possibly a few days in jail). Worst case scenario, some vigilante justice might we levied in the field (let's hope not, as a destroyed vehicle is much more serious than a destroyed trail camera). But, the responsibility still lies with the offending party in my book (they knew better) and were willfully destroying a valued public resource, which should have consequences.

Concerning targets, I assume these are still being limited to parking areas, camp grounds, trailheads, road pull-offs, etc.? We aren't talking about use several miles away from roads where people are expecting to be able to get away from things like that? If part of a hunting camp, the argument would be the same a a tent/shelter (active and temporary use)...

Tent/shelter: Tents/shelters are a necessity for safe overnight/multi-night excursions. A trail camera is not. Tents/shelters have historical precedent (have been used 'forever') for use on public land. Trail cameras do not. It is assumed, that when a tent/shelter is encountered that there is a personal actively using the tent/shelter, who is not very far away and is likely to be back to use that night. The same assumption can not be made with trail cameras. A tent is being used actively and temporary. A trail camera is not being used actively, and I guess how temporary based on the individual whims (I suspect many are left our for multiple weeks/months?). Given these points, I don't think tents/shelters are a good analogy either, although certainly more nuanced than trucks, trailers, targets.

I think the best analogies are ATVs and tree stands. ATVs are restricted to designated routes/roads. Tree stands are not allowed to stay out overnight. Given it appears trail camera users don't see a need to police themselves, I suspect it will need to be done for them. This is unfortunate, because the last thing we need is more laws and more issues dividing hunters and sportsmen.

The above points don't even get into the 'fair chase' aspect of trail cams or the perception of non-hunters to their use. Like it or not, 'fair chase' and non-hunter perception of hunter behavior is going to be the deciding factor on whether we keep our hunting rights/privileges well into the future. Something trail camera users need to think about...


Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_pub.jpg
 
James,
Why do you see trailcams as a violation of "Fair Chase Hunting"? Do you have a scope on your rifle? do you have a range finder? Do you use a ATV to get back into your honey hole? All of these items are a result of increased hunting technology. I don't see a trailcam a violation of fair chase anymore than a rifle that can shoot a deer from a mile away. We have progressed as hunters and maybe it's falling a bit in our favor, but it's still legal.

You have no right to go and destroy anyone's property.

Calling all these government agencies trying to ban them because YOU don't approve is pretty dumb. Get a life!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-13 AT 01:09PM (MST)[p]I've never touched a trail camera...yours, mine or otherwise. I don't own one and never will but I won't touch yours.

With that said here's what I think;
I hate trail cameras and every lazy-azz thing they represent! The last thing I want to do is run into a stupid trail camera when I'm scouting. Every jack-azz I talk to thinks that the water hole is theirs because they have a camera on it. Some guys even go so far as to stake a claim to the animal because they have a 3:30am photo of it!

It's your legal right to have a trail camera (at this point) and I would never touch someone elses property, period, because the only thing I hate worse than a trail camera is a theif/vandal!

Proudly a hunter instead of a technomaniac
Zeke

PS: I do carry some techy stuff with me in the field. Key word: I CARRY IT INSTEAD OF LITTER WITH IT.
 
HJB, to level-set, following are the B&C Fair Chase principles...

---

FAIR CHASE STATEMENT

FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

HUNTER ETHICS

Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:

1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.
2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.
3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.
4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.
5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.
6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.

---

Certainly drawing an exact Fair Chase line is impossible, and for the most part, the line has to be drawn personally, with the principles above in mind and eye toward how the non-hunting public would perceive your behavior.

I have drawn the line for myself in many areas. Certainly, trail cameras are one of the lines drawn. Trail cams are a modern electronic devices that give hunters an unfair advantage over the hunted. I believe trail cam use clearly violates #6, #2 in many remote areas in the west, and quite possibly #3 and #5, depending on the trail cam user and specific use.

To your points above, I do use a rifle scope, but I don't shoot over 400 yards, even though I can. So your "shooting over a mile away" doesn't apply. I do use a range finder, for the specific purposes of making a clean kill (see #4 above). I do not use an ATV. I use my feet and my mule.

I am still of the opinion that trail cams are illegal, but do plan to get the specific laws in the 9 western states I hunt.

I certainly have a right to remove personal property that is left on public land illegally (either through the appropriate agencies or myself), and as stated, I feel I have the moral right to remove trail cams that are obvious in their disregard for others use of public land. So, you can keep stating I don't have a right, but I clearly disagree.

As stated, it would be far better for trail cam users to police themselves than to have their use made illegal in all ways at all times on public land. But I suspect if there isn't some type of code developed among trail cam users that respect other public land users, historical use and a desire to not see electronics hanging all over the place, then they will be eventually banned.

And for your information, I have a life! Thanks for your concern.


Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_pub.jpg
 
I also hate trail cams, I also have never touched destroyed or messed with one, but I also am getting tired of them taking my picture when I am out hiking, cameras are getting out of control they are behind every rock and bush anymore. I am not justifying anyone destroying or stealing but I can sure see why it happens.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-13 AT 06:19PM (MST)[p]Looks like most feel like I stated and that's where they are legal you have no business touching them. I'll also say again like some others that I don't use them and I don't use a quad either, but I have no problem with them when they are used legally and with a little common sense. Just because you don't like something and think it is against fair chase doesn't give you the right to take the law into your own hands. Therefore, I'll stay with my statement that ones like you are worse than a d-bag and deserve to get their azz whooped if caught destroying or stealing ANY property that isn't theirs!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-13
>AT 09:30?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-18-13
>AT 09:28?PM (MST)
>
>Hey EMD, keep your "personal property"
>off public land. It
>is that simple.
>
>It has nothing to do with
>'how someone hunts'. It
>has to do with respecting
>public land and other users
>of public land. No
>one should have to walk
>up on a wallow and
>see someone's trail camera plastered
>on a tree. At
>least have enough respect for
>other public land users and
>hide/camo your trail camera well
>enough that someone doesn't have
>to look at it/see/know it
>is there... if you truly
>need a hunting crutch like
>trail cameras in the first
>place.
>
>I did some quick research about
>legality, how others handle trail
>cameras on public land, etc.
> I like the approach
>taken by Forest Service and
>BLM employees. They remove
>the personal property, leave a
>note, and take it to/leave
>it at the appropriate office
>lost/found location for pick-up.
>That seems like a sensible
>middle road... between destroying private
>property abandoned on public land
>to make a point and
>just trying to ignore the
>abuse of public land.
>
>EMD, I was replying to the
>request to understand why individuals
>would destroy a trail camera.
> I suspect the reason
>people would destroy a trail
>camera are for the reasons
>I mentioned. I personally
>don't know why anyone would
>want to take (steal) a
>trail camera, I suspect few
>of these cases are people
>stealing a camera for their
>own use. It is
>likely, for the reasons I
>mentioned, people removing the trail
>cameras from the public
>National Forests and BLM land.
>And BTW, if you reply
>again, please keep your childish
>name calling to yourself.
>I enjoy an intelligent discussion,
>that is why I don't
>have a problem sharing a
>counter, and likely unpopular, argument.
> But if you can't
>come up with a point
>beyond "d-bag", you might as
>well stay in your crib.
>
>
>
>Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation
>behaves well if it treats
>the natural resources as assets
>which it must turn over
>to the next generation, INCREASED
>and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
>
>
logo_pub.jpg


Would love to find your tent that you leave unattended and move it to the next mountain for you. Oh wait, I guess since it isn't high technology than it is ok for you to leave your tent. What about your truck, that is on public property, why shouldn't I be able to take your truck and use it for my own use or destroy it because it is in the spot I wanted to park in?


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
 
COGriz, Although I whole heartedly disagree with your point of view I appreciate your opinion. The reason that I use trail cameras is I cannot afford to hike in eight miles a day to where I hunt to scout. I believe in hunting smarter and harder than the next guy. I think that in doing so I will attain advantage over the next hunter. I do not put my cameras where a whole load of people go. I think that it is a rash decision to destroy somebodies property. I would hope that you don't tie up your mule to pursue your game animal I might just be tempted to shoot it or untie it and run it off just because I don't agree with people that use animals to hunt animals, I use my legs. I guess if you don't agree with my cameras in your "back country" than I don't think that your mule belongs in my back country. To be truthful I have no problem with your horse or mule in the back country but I am using it to make my point. I will continue to use my cameras but I will do it smarter. I just may put up two over that same area. I truly hope to get a picture of people like you destroying personal property that way I could put it on this site so that we can get a good idea of what you look like. That way we can look for your horse trailer, mule, truck at the trailheads. I wouldn't ever actually do anything to personal property that belongs to someone else because I am not that kind of person. I just want to get my point across. I believe that respect of others is a principle that must be taught from a young age and it is obvious to me that there are a number of people on this site that DO NOT abide by Christian values. Do unto others what you would have done unto you. Thank you for your opinion though.
 
NonTyp, let's turn this around. Why in the hell do you think you have the right to litter the backcountry with your plastic electronic trash? You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. So I am shocked that you can't see the difference between tents, trucks, trailers, mules, trail cameras, etc. Your analogy between my mule and your trail camera is asinine. There is a huge difference between these personal property items we all use, and have long historical use, and trail cameras. I guess if you and others can't see the difference, then there is no purpose attempting to have an intelligent conversation about the subject. If you truly feel you have a right to put your modern electronics out in wild places in plain site for long periods of time unattended, then we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree, because I couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect if you are limiting your trail cams to 1-2, putting them 8 miles from the nearest roads, and discretely hiding them, then you likely aren't the type of trail camera user I have a problem with or would ever have problem with, since I would never see your camera(s). But if you are the type of person that would put a bullet in a mule, then you are the lowest of individuals. I'm shocked you would even mention such a thing. That certainly says a lot about you as a person. Enough of this BS. Done. My hope is trail cameras will be outlawed in all western forests soon, assuming they aren't already illegal (I was unable to get ahold of anyone at the Forest Service today). And let's hope this isn't an example of the type of straw that breaks the camel's back when it comes to the non-hunting publics support of fair chase hunting. I guess it would serve us (hunters) right since we can't seem to get our s**t together.


Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_pub.jpg
 
I'm with co grizz on this one. It clearly states that in Colorado electronic devices are illegal to aid in the taking of big game. Just because it doesn't say so in the small section of the does and don't in Colorado doesn't make it legal. I have never destroyed a cam but I have never seen one. Due to the attitude of the cam users that they will post a picture of someone on public land that destroys a cam only gives the answer to destroy every cam you see. I don't mind my picture being taken at every traffic light and thousands of times as I go down the city street. Many crimes are solved fast by using cameras, the crooks are too stupid to know why the cops come to their door after they knock off a liquor store. That being said I don't want to have my picture exposed to the public if a crime was committed in the national forest where I just went for a hunting or scouting trip. I don't want to have to hire an attorney to defend myself because I was in the area that a crime took place. As far as what Michigan laws are who cares.
 
COgriz
I wouldn't ever put a bullet in your mule that is exactly why I cant see or fathom your LACK of RESPECT for other peoples property. Many people don't like the fact that they hike all day into an area then some shmuck rides up haphazardly on his horse or mule spooking the game as he goes. WHO are you to judge why or why not someone has placed something in a certain place on the mountain and WHO are you to tell me how it should or shouldn't be disguised?? The land is public. I am simply stating that as hunters, hikers, adventurists RESPECT must be a way of life. Who are you to say what is trash or isn't trash? I consider your mule trash on the mountain should I just cut it a little to injure it and hope that you "get the point" that I don't like it up there even though it is LEGAL? OF COURSE NOT! WHY???? Because I respect YOUR decision to ride the thing into the backcountry. You don't know why people do the things they do. I use a trail camera because I go to work full time and school full time, leaving me very little time to scout the area that perhaps I may want to hunt come the hunting season. Also maybe I have a few places I want to hunt but simply do not have the time to scout them all, the camera provides me information which can be used to help me decide where to spend my time. CoGriz I respect you and your opinion and I don't think less of you but your points have no validity in my opinion. You have to simply understand that people are not always going to agree with one another its a fact of life. So my advice to you would be don't touch others stuff and we wont touch yours. Live respectfully and have some MORALS, even when you don't agree with the situation, it will get you a long way in your life.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-13 AT 08:57PM (MST)[p]Last Fall I stuck my Face right Up Close & Personal in several Trail-Cams!

Figured for Sure I'd be Posted on MM last Fall,WTH?

Figured some Smart-Ass would Post:Guess Who I got a Pic of?:D

There's always this Fall & I will be burning some of your Bandwidth!




This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
COGriz,
If I put a camera up on a trail and check it every week, how is that different from some guide sitting on the same vantage point every day looking at the same trail. The only difference is I have a job and a family and he does not. Should it be illegal for a guy that has a life to find a way to scout harder or do I just need to quit my job to be Ethical and hunt fair chase.

This is the most ridculous thing I have ever heard! And as for not using electronic devices in Colorado, I guess that eliminates range finders, digital cameras, GPS, Radios, and anything else with a freakin battery. Or does electronic only mean "Trail Camera".

Quit whining and hunt!
 
This is just MORE of the same old chit attitude;

"Because I don't like it, or I don't use it, it is wrong for someone else"

Sad that so many people reach euphoria, by placing their personal morals and ethics on others.

"Being an idiot is NOT an art form. Give it up!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-13 AT 04:32PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-13 AT 04:27?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-13 AT 04:10?PM (MST)

Many in this younger generation lack some serious moral fortitude. Parents just aren't teaching the value of honesty and intregity. I guess some parents think integrity is an old rusty outdated value.It's a shame and unfortunate reality.Whats more frightening, is adults who should know better that engage in this kind of behavior.

COgrizz you are a prime example of what i'm talking about.It's your right to not like trail cameras, however, it takes a lot of nevere or a lack of brains to confess on a public forum that you would engage in crimnal behavior by tampering or removing personal property that does not belong to you.Stealing or tampering with someone elses trail camera is treated legally the same as if you stole or tampered with someones camping equipment, or vehicle on public land. You can justify it all you want, but it is dishonest, and I hope if you have kids you aren't teaching them that this kind of behavior is ok.
 
I Think somebody caught elkun with His Pants down!:D




This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
+1 elkun!

nontypical, sorry to hear that others are that disrespectful.

I understand where people are coming from by saying cams are an unfair advantage, but where do you draw the line? I could say my optics, rangefinder etc. are an unfair advantage. I bet a majority of the B&C animals were harvested with the use of some type of electronic device (radios being a major one). I hate to use radios and view them as more of an unfare advantage to the animal than a trail cam could ever be. Just because you have pictures of a 200 inch buck on a cam does not get him anywhere near on the ground.

I personally do not use my trail cams to scout. I use optics to scout where groups of bucks are traveling and I place them accordingly to hopefully get awesome pictures of them. I enjoy looking at close up pictures of not only the bucks, but cougars, coyotes, fawns, etc. I feel if many serious sportsman opposed to trail cams bought one and had success getting pics of the animals they were scouting, they would be hooked instantly. Don't knock it til you try it!

To label all hunters that use trail cams as "lazy" is childish. I would encourage anyone that makes a statement like that to tag along with me when I go hang my cams and see just how "lazy" I am.

It floored me that so many people would actually destroy somebodies personal property. I understand it is on public property, but that is doesn't make it right. Unbelievaable. It's a sad world we live in now days. What would they do if the owner of the camera walked up as they were performing their ghetto act? Coward down mighty fast I'm sure.
 
I understand the dislike, But you take it too far when you harm some-one else stuff. Most people I know if they catch you wrecking their stuff would go postal and who could blame them.
You would be taking money out of their pocket to replace it, the same as cash out of their pocket.
I have seen hundreds of deer and elk on trail cams, that I haven't seen in real life so a picture just tells you that that bull or buck is around. Just because a animal comes by doesn't mean you will tag him out.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Never had a camera stolen or damaged but did have someone use my wife's ground blind and leave their garbage in it. They also took her Bow holder (peg). I didn't have a camera up at that water hole, but left a note saying, "Thank you for your garbage and the pic's you left on our trail came. Both my sons and I now know who to cripple when we see you in the wood next time. Thanks again the hunting was slow but at least we have finding you to look forward to." a few days later the door was left open and the note taken down, but otherwise left alone. Would have hated to really have one of my sons catch the pos. Good luck on catching your pos.







"he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior, Luke 22:36
 
This kind of reminds me of one time when I found a really nice digital camera under our seats at Wrigley Field one time. On my way out I stopped at an information counter and asked if they had a lost and found. The lady snapped back "ya but we dont have anything". When I handed her the camera and told her I just wanted to turn it in she looked at me like I was crazy. Sad testament.

I don't like trail cams all over the public land by me but I dont touch them. My only thought on that is the folks who do that must know they are going to get some stolen. I fiddled with them for a couple years but the land I hunt is so over pressured all the good bucks are nocturnal anyway.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
>This kind of reminds me of
>one time when I found
>a really nice digital camera
>under our seats at Wrigley
>Field one time. On
>my way out I stopped
>at an information counter and
>asked if they had a
>lost and found. The
>lady snapped back "ya but
>we dont have anything".
>When I handed her the
>camera and told her I
>just wanted to turn it
>in she looked at me
>like I was crazy.
>Sad testament.
>
>I don't like trail cams all
>over the public land by
>me but I dont touch
>them. My only thought
>on that is the folks
>who do that must know
>they are going to get
>some stolen. I fiddled
>with them for a couple
>years but the land I
>hunt is so over pressured
>all the good bucks are
>nocturnal anyway.
>
>***********************************
>Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club,
>NRA, UWC & DP Hate
>Club


Just for your Info Zim!

We got Trail-Cams now that take Pics at Night!:D:D:D



This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
>Just for your info Zim
>We got Trail-Cams now that take
>Pics at Night!:D:D:D

Elk assassin, Yes I am we'll aware of that. What I was referring to was I found it a waste of time to know where bucks travelled as I never saw any of those shooters walk by those same spots in legal hunting hours. Such is the case with all our grossly over hunted public land here.


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
>
>>Just for your info Zim
>>We got Trail-Cams now that take
>>Pics at Night!:D:D:D
>
>Elk assassin, Yes I am we'll
>aware of that. What
>I was referring to was
>I found it a waste
>of time to know where
>bucks travelled as I never
>saw any of those shooters
>walk by those same spots
>in legal hunting hours.
>Such is the case with
>all our grossly over hunted
>public land here.
>
>
>***********************************
>Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club,
>NRA, UWC & DP Hate
>Club

RAZZIN Ya Zim!

Them Trail-Cams can be aggitatin can't they?:D






This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
>So, what's the deal with this
>Claude Dallas guy? Did he
>really get a fair shake?
>
>
>M'Balz Es Hari


If ol' Claude would have just had a trail cam........

"Being an idiot is NOT an art form. Give it up!"
 
Zeke,
I couldn't agree more.

I wonder how all of the trail cam proponents would like it if someone strapped a cam to a tree in the terrace between the sidewalk and the curb, pointed it at their house and then showed up to check it every afternoon?
 
36 CFR II 261.10 (Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property), (Code of Federal Regulations), (Chapter II: Forest Service, Dept of Agriculture), (Part 261: Prohibitions), (Subpart A: General prohibitions), (261.10 - Occupancy and use)

"The following are prohibited:

(a) Constructing, placing, or maintaining any kind of road, trail, structure, fence, enclosure, communications equipment, or other improvement on National Forest System lands or facilities without a special use authorization, contract, or approved operating plan, unless such authorization, contract, or operating plan is waived pursuant to ? 251.50(e) of this chapter.

(e) Abandoning any personal property.

Obviously, there are specific exceptions in the code, such as there are for camping limits or tree stands. But if there's an exception for trail cams, I've never been able to find it. Hunters could press the issue and ask for one, but that might not turn out too good. (Want to pay for a special use permit?) Best let sleeping dogs lie.

Point is, it's wrong to take someone's trail cam. But you'd be hard pressed to prosecute the thief, especially if the thief is USFS. He's a douche, sure. But he ain't a criminal.
 
"Lost, Mislaid, and Abandoned Property Personal property is considered to be lost if the owner has involuntarily parted with it and does not know its location. Mislaid property is that which an owner intentionally places somewhere with the idea that he will eventually be able to find it again but subsequently forgets where it has been placed. Abandoned property is property to which the owner has intentionally relinquished all rights."

The fag excuse of finders keepers and "abandoned property" doesn't hold water with me or any lawyer worth his salt.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-13 AT 07:21AM (MST)[p]By all means not gospel but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost,_mislaid,_and_abandoned_property


Link won't paste...

Wiki "Lost, mislaid, and abandoned property"

Clearly the intent of abandoned property laws applies when someone purposely leaves property with no intent to retrieve it. Time left unattended and condition of property seem to be factors. Working cameras don't seem to fall into this classification.

Basically, if you touch or take another persons obviously working and recently placed property (camera, tent, cooking implements, coolers, etc) and they are not specifically prohibited on the piece of public ground you are sharing, you are a vandalizing thief and deserve what's coming to you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-13 AT 01:43PM (MST)[p]I don't own a trail cam but I'm not against their use either. I love seeing pics posted from trail cams. I sure wouldn't mind using one during deer season to better learn escape routes/hidey holes. Any person putting up a trail cam is not abandoning property. They have full intention of returning to retrieve it. The camera is in use so long as the batteries are good and the SD card has room. Not abandoned and it is not litter. If I ever saw one posted on a tree I'd probably wave and smile.

If I found one at my honey hole I'd be discouraged but cetainly wouldn't touch it. I might get creative. Three essentials in my hunting pack are a sasquatch costume, some twine, and a shed antler. Multiple passes in front of the camera in the sasquatch outfit might help to discourage the owner from hunting the honey hole. By positioning myself below the camera and holding the shed antler just inside the picture window for multiple shots could burn some of the SD card capacity and be frustrating for the viewer who would want to see the full deer. Finaly some twine tied to a tree branch above the camera and elk droppings at the other end positioned just in front of the lense should burn the rest of the SD card capacity. Every time the wind blows the owner could get a fresh picture of elk turd. He'd be happy because of all the wild life sign that he'd have on film. I'd be happy because the 370 bull would not show up until his SD card was full.

In case it is not completely obvious the second paragraph is in jest.
 
I don't get it, had a trail camera stolen this last week have been wondering the same thing. Who steals anything that doesn't belong to them, let alone a hunter stealing from a hunter?!

People have killed animals that I have had on my trail cameras and I have given them the pictures. One buck I had pictures of for 4 years. They were thrilled.

It's as simple as the golden rule, do you want to worry about your tent, vehicle, gear, every time you walk away from it?

Are your actions making the world better or worse? If you don't think trail cameras should be allowed in the forest then help make a law that clearly states that, don't take the making of 'law' and enforcement into your own hands.
 
In all this nonsense I still can't figure out how a trail cam user is "lazy". Guys running a string of cameras spend more time in the hills than those who don't. Which is more difficult; running up and down the mountain pulling SD cards and packing 12lb trophy rock or glassing from 2 miles away or riding a mule? I think most would agree the actual hiking part is more difficult.

And how does it provide an unfair advantage to the animal? All it really does is let the hunter know if a certain animal is in the area or maybe the quality of the animal. Now if you say I don't like trail cams because they give another person an unfair advantage over me then I may agree.

Y'all try to self justify by playing the ethical card, but what it really comes down to is one person feels like another has an advantage. Its a techno world and ya either adapt or continue to go old school. Nothing wrong with either one, but don't let selfishness, jealousy, or pride dictate what you do to another persons property.
 
To those of you who have "abandoned" trail cams.....and are pissed when they are gone, I now have more of them than I need, so I won't be bringing any more home.

Since YOU no longer have use for the operating manuals, could you please forward them to me?........it would be the MM thing to do....thanks in advance!

"Being an idiot is NOT an art form. Give it up!"
 
Touch my cam and Ill beat the livin chit out of you! IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW!! PERIOD

One thing to see an item in the woods that is illegal to take action, but these are not. ITS NOT YOURS KEEP EFFING HANDS OFF OF IT! YOU ARE THE DAMN REASON HUNTERS ARE LOSING RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY CAUSE YOUR DEFFINITION OF HUNTING ISNT SOMEONE ELSES!

If we all had your mentality hunting would be gone as we know it! Your ideas are no different than states losing the right to hound hunt and bear bait with hunters voting for it cause they dont agree with that form of hunting. Wouldnt that be great if we ALL felt that way?
We as hunters need to stick together and quit bitching about methods and forms of hunting. Tell me how and what you enjoy hunting and there are thousands that will not agree with your method and on and on. I dont agree with the use of stock in wilderness as I see what they have done to pristine areas.. tear them up!! But I would ever vote to remove or inquire a agency to see what I can do to stop it! EVER.. thats someone elses tradition and how they grew up hunting. I can on for days with examples
 
Tell us how you really feel.
Nickman, if you get a manual for a Nikon, let me know. It was kinda hard to get it out of the box so I had to cut the tree down, and into smaller pieces to pack it out.
 
Nickman: "To those of you who have "abandoned" trail cams.....and are pissed when they are gone, I now have more of them than I need, so I won't be bringing any more home.

Since YOU no longer have use for the operating manuals, could you please forward them to me?........it would be the MM thing to do....thanks in advance!"

I cannot find a "fav" button anywhere on this thread!
 
In the areas I hunt, I have never seen a trail camera. I guess they are just that bad! While I am not opposed to their use, I would be unhappy to see a bunch of them placed at my favorite holes simply because, at least in my mind, I want my hunt to be a contest between me and my animal, not between me and other guys. I understand that it may come to this, but I do not want to be reminded. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. I picture a bunch of guys standing around their photos, picking their animals as if from a catalogue, and that's not for me. Nevertheless, so long as they are legal, no hunter should interfere with another's equipment. Cameras are no different from stands in this respect, but even with stands we should expect a certain etiquette. It is not OK, for example, to monopolize a choice location by leaving one's stand on the only available tree.
 
I'm askin again?

Anybody recognize the JOKER ####ing in what use to be a Nice Wallow in the Pic I posted above?






This Story happens alot it's True!
But Ya Best Hope it don't ever happen to you!
 
i dont think its lazy per say, but i dont use any cams. there are places i wish i could set 1 up due to the lack of access and how deep in the area to hunt is. sitting and scouting the area is simply not an option.
i can see where trail cams would be very handy in those situations.
as for people taking them, its simply theft. no if's, and's or but's about it. Theft. if it isnt yours, and you take it, theft. i think we all should have learned this at age 5.
 

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