Two dead bulls

arch3614elk · Apr 2, 2013

I found these two bulls Saturday while shed hunting, they were 50 yards apart. I called DWR and they figured the two had been dead about a month from starvation. The canyon they were in didn't have much good vegetation for winter range, the worst part was when the officer told me that he had even more dead elk in the area last year from poor winter range..

BLooDTRaCKeR · Apr 2, 2013

Thats too bad. Nice finds though. Did you get to keep them?

arch3614elk · Apr 2, 2013

It sounded like I might get to keep them, but you never know.

Dr_Hunter · Apr 3, 2013

That is horrible! Is the area in Utah? Hope you get to keep them. Good for you on doing the right thing and calling it in.

I don't think there is any other quality
so essential to success of any kind as the
quality of perseverance. It overcomes
almost everything, even nature.
-John D. Rockefeller

NVPete · Apr 4, 2013

Sad to think of the reality, cruelty, and severity of harsh winter conditions that perhaps going in two big ol' somewhat healthy animals like these would run out of food and slowly die! :-(

Midnight · Apr 4, 2013

Don't you have more to tell of this story. What you holding back.

Midnight · Apr 4, 2013

If you found these Saturday... You weren't the only one on the mountain. This is a small world and funny thing is I got both these bulls sent to me via text with antlers cut off and ivories missing.

You want to explain?

Midnight

Midnight · Apr 4, 2013

This is what you forgot to tell in your story. This photo was taken on Saturday and saw a person hiking in with a hack saw...

Do you want me to keep going?

ok here is the other bull

I sure hope your story ends with a great explanation. As you can see I got proof of your same dead bulls with witnesses protected in the photos.

I did not see this in person only photos. Imagine my surprise when I read your post.

My question is the following.

You said you found these Saturday? Seems my friends found these Saturday with their antlers missing.

My friend saw a person hiking in with a hack saw where these bulls were found and photographed. They later found the bulls without antlers and ivory missing.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong here, I might be missing something here, but you have some explaining to do.

Last week I had another friend with your same circumstance. Seems he found a dead bull, called DWR and they accompanied him up the hill to the spot and they both retrieved the bull. The rack wasn't cut from the skull.

One last person found a dead head clear up in South Slope of the Unitas and it was a 5 mile hike in. Give the DWR credit, the offier hiked into the spot and cut the rack off keeping the rack attached to the skull but didn't cut off the antler seperate.

Perhaps this is all a timing issue, but my experience they don't cut the antlers off,but I could be wrong.

So why were these?

Please explain.

Midnight

arch3614elk · Apr 4, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-13 AT 05:41AM (MST)[p]I will be glad to explain,the guy you saw with a hack saw was the intern with Fish and Game officer Mike Roach.I waited for them to meet me, and all three of us hiked back up to the two bulls. I was there when they cut the antlers off both bulls. I actually carried out one set for them.. They took the ivories off the bigger bull and and left the ivories on the smaller bull.It must have been late Saturday afternoon when your so called friend saw the bulls because it wasn't until 5 pm when we got back to the main road, I don't carry a hack saw when I go hiking Midnight! Do you have any other questions for me..In your "so called experience" you are way wrong...I really don't have a dam thing to explain to you...Your apology better be a good one...

Midnight · Apr 5, 2013

Your explanation sounds legit. Thanks for explaining. Why didn't you say that before?

Re read my post and you will see I only laid out information I had and asked you the obvious questions. I already said I could be wrong.

Why don't you apologize for not being straight up with all the facts or details?

I know I don't have all the facts. I know I can be wrong. I think I have plenty of reasons to question what I did. If you took offense then perhaps that's your problem. Your story now can verified with Officer Roach.

Too bad they cut antlers off when you took them to the spot. I am shocked three guys could have cut the rack off whole and carried them all off. That's the better trophy on the wall. You three could have easily carried all the racks off no problem. So, last question why did he cut them off individually?

Again, don't take offense in question. I get the DWR has no consistency in their field practice. Most MM posters have said when they determine natural cause of death the finder is rewarded. I would have assumed the kept the rack attached to the skull for likelihood it would go to you.

What was Officer Roach explanation for cutting them single?

arch3614elk · Apr 5, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-13 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]I didn't need to explain it to you, I put up a couple pictures to share with everyone else, not for someone like you to question my ethics. I don't need to explain why they cut the antlers the way they did, I had no problem with how they did in in the first place. I was straight up with the the facts.

A. I found two dead heads, called DWR and met them to show them where they were located.

B. The officer cut the antlers, took the ivory off of one bull and gave them to the intern.

C. I hiked back down the canyon with them and went on my way,
I think you ASSumed I did something illegal when your "friend" saw the elk with thier antlers cut off and noticed them here on MM. I really didn't care if they kept the antlers together or not, why should I question his job duties. I prefer the story behind the antlers rather than having a set of antlers on a wall.
I took offense because you ASSumed I just took the antlers, That is the problem I have...I think you ASSume too much...

utahbigbull · Apr 5, 2013

Ooops!! open mouth, insert something on that one lol.

Midnight · Apr 5, 2013

Ah duh... Who wouldn't assume that.

Midnight · Apr 5, 2013

FOR THE RECORD; Sorry to ASSume. Your story checks out.

Officer Roach validated the issue.

Consider this my apology. Thanks for doing the right thing and I hope you get all the good karma coming your way.

ASSumer Midnight

Rambo · Apr 5, 2013

>FOR THE RECORD; Sorry to ASSume.
>Your story checks out.
>
>Officer Roach validated the issue.
>
>Consider this my apology. Thanks
>for doing the right thing
>and I hope you get
>all the good karma coming
>your way.
>
>ASSumer Midnight

Nice try private "I"! Some kind of ethics cop you are. So let me ask you a few questions. Why should the game and fish keep something a guy finds if they don't need it for evidence to convict a poacher?Just so it can hang in their office? Do you have red and blue lights on top of your rig so you can ticket speeders? Good luck officer and thanks for upholding the law!

utahbigbull · Apr 5, 2013

Still think we need officer Roach to chime in on this one to propperly validate the issue and make sure Midnights friends didnt hack the antlers off and blame someone else.

My buddies told me that they think that might have been what happened. They knew of a guy a couple years ago that that did that very thing. It may apply here! They didn't send me any pictures though.

arch3614elk · Apr 5, 2013

Apology accepted Midnight, although I hope you learned that there are MMer's out there that follow the rules...I will post pics if they let me have the antlers.

NVPete · Apr 5, 2013

I know you will have your pics and recollections of memory to remember this event by, BUT a good ending will be if the DWR lets you have the antlers. It will just make your story more worth retelling when you can have friends examine the antlers! Kudos for sharing your experience. I could care less about all the issues and other gibberish that gets posted on this site; but I love to read first-person accounts such as yours. Thanks again!

HayZeus · Apr 5, 2013

If people would mind their own business this would be a much better world. You should of left people guessing this could of got even funnier. I hope you get the antlers.