Up hill/ Down hill shots

zeddro

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Been to a couple of 3D shoots and I am getting different opinions on Up hill/Down hill shots.

One guy said:

Add yardage for uphill - Cut yardage for downhill

Another guy told me:

Always cut yardage whether it is up hill or down hill.

Please help

(I don't have a rangefinder with the arc or id)

thanks
 
The second guy is right.

The first guy is the one you want to shoot against. Hopefully for money!
 
First find the angle, with some type of inclinometer. If you have a smart phone you can download the theodolite ap or carpenters ap for free and they are surpisingly accurate. FYI, Brunton makes the best non-electronic inclinometer out there. Then with a scientific calculator set on deg and use this formula: Angle, COS X Distance. That will give you the number to set your sight on.

For example 30 Degrees, COS (.866)X 50 = 43.3 is the horizontal distance.

Or buy a range finder that will do it for you. Although, the few I've tested have been close but not entirely accurate. they'll work in a pinch.

When I've used the Archers Advantage cut-chart, it always seems to cut too much and I'd get low arrows. The old school COS method seems to be the most accurate for me. And this seems to be true with the top ranked field archers I've questioned.
 
Cut cut cut or

get yourself a range finder that calculates the horizontal distance and just shoot what it reads. It takes the yardage guesses out of hunting. No need to pack a cut sheet or pack a calculator or angle reader anymore. They only cost about 200 bucks!
 
Cabelas had the Bushnell Chuck Adams Special with the "ARC" which calculates the angle, on sale a few days ago for $149.99 (reg $229) I picked one up but haven't taken it our of the box yet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-14-11 AT 01:05PM (MST)[p]Or if you're like me and love your leica rangefinder you can subtract 6% of the total yardage for 20 degree up or downhill. Subtract 15% for 30 degrees and 30% for 45 degree angle. The 20 degree angle doesn't need to be compensated much until you are out to long distances but this rule comes in handy with my long distance rifle shots. For instance let's use a 30 degree angle. I subtract 15 yards for every 100 yards the Target is away. At 50 yards I will be shooting for 43 yards and at 500 yards I will be shooting for 425. Clear as mud?
 
It's only a matter of time before optic companies start putting to use the same angle compensation technology in binos like they have rangefinders.
 
Marley, I bought a Leica CRF 1200 last year and love it too, but.....decided for the archery hunt I didn't want to take a slide rule or calculator. I hate math and pretty much suck at it too. Epecially if there's a bull standing there waiting for me to shoot.
 
>I know they have rangefinding binos,
>but I didn't think they
>had angle compensators in them.
>
Your right, miss-read your post, don't know of any with the "arc"..i'm sure they are in the works.
Mike
 
It is strange that you cut the distance regardless of whether it is up or down hill, but that is the way it is. I saw it explained once and it made a lot of sense. Something to do with gravity and the horizontal distance.

I have a Bushnell Scout with Arc and my brother has a Leupold RX1000 TBR and both compute the range you want to shoot for. This website can point people in the right direction: http://www.bestforhunting.com/best-rangefinder-for-hunting/

I have seen people miss high at 25 yard because they failed to account for angle. I got an archery buck 2 years ago that was 37 yards and my rangefinder said aim for 25 yards. I thought that seemed a little excessive, so I aimed for 30. The result was a shot that was a few inches higher than I would have liked, but it all worked out. Moral of the story: Get yourself a rangefinder with angle compensation and trust what it tells you!
 
Have answered this many times - here goes: Doesn't matter if it's a projectile from a gun or bow, they ONLY ever FALL. They don't have airfiols (wings), they are symetrical about their axis of flight, therefore they only ever fall. EVEN if they are aimed UPHILL or DOWNHILL. That explains why TYPICAL bullet trajectory "hits high at 100 yds when sighted in right-on at 200 yards". In that case the barrel of the gun is actually pointed UP, and still the bullet FALLS once it leaves the barrel. The bullet never actually rises, it just appears like it does, but in relation to a very straight line concentric with the gun's bore, it ONLY FALLS. Same with arrows. Once it leaves the bow, IT FALLS. Yardage, is NOT the distance to the TARGET, but rather TIME OVER GRAVITY, or better "Time Allowed To Fall Over Gravity Before Destiation". Every object falls TOWARD gravity by 32 feet per second squared, less wind resistance. Since we don't carry desktop computers in the field to do the long calculations of velocity/time/distance/resistance/etc., we usually go with "Distance Over Gravity". If you can envision all of that, it explains why if you place a treestand 90 feet (30 yards) in the air on a straight, plumb utility pole and a deer is standing touching the pole, it is a 1 foot shot, not a 30 yard shot. If you tie the deer to your stand and go to the ground, lean against the pole, it's still only a 1 foot shot. The arrow only still travels OVER GRAVITY by 1 foot. It just does it at an extreme angle.
It doesn't always sound right - but that's the physics of it.
I used to have a sketch of this - I'll try and dig it up.
EDPRE
 
Here it is:
321bullet_trajectory_jpeg.jpg


Top Left - shows the physics of it. There are no opinions, just the facts thanks to the guy and the apple. If you notice, the curve gets "steeper" the farther out the projectile travels. That's because the bullet travels slower due to wind resistance and because it falls faster and faster, ({[32ft/sec] squared} - wind resistance).
Bottom shows a real world setup, exaggerated. Using the scopes typical "line of sight", the barrel is usually pointed upward, yet the bullet still begins to fall once it leaves the barrel.
Top Right - Should give you an example of your archery question. Imagine that in feet with an arrow - a 100' shot (33 yds on an old-fashioned rangefinder) should "shoot like" a 30' shot (10 yards). Shoot low always on steep inclines, the distance over gravity is always shorter than distance to target in these situations.

Thought it might help.

edpre
 
'DISTANCE OVER GRAVITY'. Well stated edpre! most people make a mess of it when verbally trying to explain it.

HA HA, way better than me stammering about right triangles and a2+b2=c2
 
edpre, you just don't understand how fast these new bows are! I've had guys absolutely swear that their bows are dead on out to 40 yards. Mr. Newton says those bows are dropping an inch/yard at that distance but he lived before the age of the carbon-compound-ultracam shoot em at 90 bow.
 
I can tell you for sure that NO bow shoots the same POI from 0-40 yards.....I've used my hooter shooter to test many things and that being one of them....the drop is significant from 20 to 40 yards with a bow over 300 fps.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
I guess my previous post wasn't dripping with enough sarcasm. Pretty much all our pins are dead on at 2 different ranges as shown by the rifle example above. Usually that first distance is inside 10 yards and the second at 20 or 30 or 40, etc. So for any one pin you shoot low then on then high then on then low. The faster bows have a little less variation but not nearly as much as you think. 270 fps to 300 fps is a 10% increase so all things being equal instead of hitting 3 inches low you hit 2.7 inches low. Not many of us notice .3 inches at 25 yards.
 
I shot a nice 5x6 muley yesterday from the edge of a cliff. My Archers Choice rangefinder read the shot at 59.4 yards. While I was sitting there giving him a minute, I reshot the distance w/o the angle compensation mode and it read almost ten yards longer at 69.3. It was a steep shot that I would have missed without it. Always deduct! UP OR DOWN. But seriously buy a rangefinder that dose it for you.
 
Really wishing I had a rangefinder with the arc calculation right now. I missed a nice 5x5 bull Saturday morning in Colorado. I ranged him at 54 yards, he was on a serious uphill incline probably close to 45 degrees. I held a tad high with my 40 yard pin and watched my arrow fly two inches under him. I thought about this exact thread after my shot, I am just thankful it was a clean miss.

Its really heartbreaking to miss after working your butt off for days on end trying to seal the deal. But that is archery.


Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
Swarovski recently announced their release of Binos with angle compensating range finder integrated. Finally!! I'm scared to know how much they cost though...LOL
 

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