UT poaching?

Tri, breaking the law to save a human life is different than breaking the law to murder an animal, even though both are have merit. :)

If legal hunting time ends at 7:12 pm is it LEGAL to shoot a wounded elk at 11:54 pm? (not part of this story, but I honestly don't know).

Eel

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.
 
Yes eel one is more imperative than the other but both show how judgment and value relate and mature people can make those decisions.
 
"IF THE REBUTTLE OF THE REPORT POSTED HERE IS TRUE."

What's a rebuttle?

Tristate are you the hunter formerly known as "Pro"?
 
"That's what's amazing is you are so blinded you think this is about court and laws.

I couldn't give a flip about his court dates, or charges, or his punishment. We are discussing what we think of modern day ethics and the effect it has on wildlife. If you think that "day in court" is going to do one thing to save an animal or improve ethics, or change conservation practices you are living in a logical fallacy."

His day in court has potential to do several things to benefit wildlife. Laws have been written because of the lack of ethics many seem to have. 60 years ago it would have been easy for the GW to turn a blind eye to his ranching neighbor that has a few deer hung in the shed a week before the deer hunt (I know this because of the stories great grandpa told while ranching in the Basin). Now you have many more unethical people doing shady things, if not downright poaching - therefore we put black & white laws on the books because too many will take advantage of exposed loopholes or cry ignorance. Crap happens, it's happened to me. Shot a spike elk 20 years ago, dropped dead. Looked away for a second & the thing was on his feet again so I dropped him. You can guess the rest of the story. Completely unintentional but I know I broke the law & I know since my uncle tagged one of them I was party hunting. Taught me a good lesson. Luckily I didn't have to explain myself to LE but I guarantee my uncle & grandpa with me at the time would have made me tell the truth & accept the consequences.
Go to any waterfowl unit (in Utah anyway) & take note of before/after hours shooting. Our hunting community is chalk full of rule breakers. The line has to be drawn somewhere. If Riley is innocent & get's screwed over because of jealous, malicious witnesses & a tainted animal loving jury I guess he'll be a victim of collateral damage - Life isn't always fair. Unfortunately the horrible evidence reported & the unsavory characters that witnessed this event (roll-eyes) looks like Riley is going to pay the piper?
 
Wakin,

If a man is convicted of shooting an elk which he saw get shot and was going to die, he just backed up the other shooter, wildlife got no benefit. The elk was dead either way. One tag got used for one elk either way. Logically if the defendants statement is true, the state, the hunter, the defendant, did not kill one single animal more than what the state had already delegated to be killed. The herd wasn't harmed. You weren't harmed.
 
So my wife has a Wasatch deer tag. We hunted Saturday morning & then she went to the trailer to rest. I have no tag, no orange but want to go walk around the trees. Maybe there will be a wounded deer as I heard a lot of shots in the area & didn't see many deer come out. So I grab her rifle just in case. Walla - a wounded buck, maybe the hunter is near so I'll kill it & of course clean it. Might as well get it to the road for them. No hunter shows up but my wife has a tag so the management objective is even. DNR sees me with no orange, no license & covered in blood. Someone turned me in. I explain to DNR I was helping out a fellow hunter, txt my wife a story for when she gets questioned. Even though I have no orange, no license - my original intent was pure, I don't want deer to suffer in agony.

Did I hurt the population? (Yep, I wasn't licensed & killed a deer I had no business killing)
Did I hurt conservation? (yep, I poached)

One license & one dead elk doesn't even the objective. One license killed by THE TAG HOLDER evens the objective.

I get you are playing devils advocate & I get you strongly have your opinions. The rest of us have opinions as well.

In your opinion do you tell them congrats, bull is dead & tagged & will look great on the wall? Or do you let LE & the courts figure out what went down? The accused admitted to lying, the accused admitted to carrying a rifle on a hunt he had no tag for. The accused admitted to not wearing required orange. The accused admitted to doing what his ethics dictated. (all semantics I guess?)

Why have LE if you don't want them to take evidence & sort it out - our society cannot police themselves in my opinion.

Oh well - I'll let you have the last word & enjoy your future arguments.
 
Not the same scenario at all and you know that wakin. The main thing you hurt was your marriage.

This fella didn't go hunting for wounded elk. He went out looking for a specific wounded elk and found it.
 
One dead 6x7 and one dead 7x7. One, two. I count two. Two. Two dead elk and one tag.
Count_von_Count_kneeling.png



[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
So any dead elk in the valley gets stuck to a guy if we know he has been charged with a game violation????????

We know at least three hunting parties were hunting right there but obviously any dead elk must be the result of this one man.
 
I've been hunting with my B tag here in California but it's been pretty tough. Hot and dry and not many deer to begin with.

I know F&W wants me to meet their objective and harvest a buck, so I've got a bunch of guys lined up to help the last few days of the season. There will be 11 of us at last count, and hopefully a few more.

All that's required of them is a gun and a radio. As soon as someone kills a buck, he announces it over the radio and my hunt is over.

At some point I have to leave to go sign a paper but I'll leave my tag at camp so F&W won't be confused as to what's going on.:)

Eel

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.
 
Actually eel, "F&W" is using historic average success to determine how many tags it will take to kill the number of deer to meet objective. 100% success rarely happens and therefore is rarely used. It's probably more like 30 - 40 percent success. So they are probably only expecting (lets assume) 40% of hunters to actually kill a deer. But you and your 10 friends probably have a 100% chance of success (throw enough lead in the air and something will die) But F&W is only expecting your tag to be filled 40% of the time. Therefore your party should only kill 40% of one deer. :) I guess that means blow a couple legs off and then let it limp off.

;-)

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Tri,
In your opinion, since he did the right thing, do you think he would do it again based on the mess he is in right now? If he is found guilty, do you think he would do it again? Would you?

Rut
 
I have no clue what this person will do next time.

If it was me the elk dies. I have done it many times before, not on an elk, and the hunter has always been thankful. The people I hunt with typically put the animals welfare above their own pride.
 
It isn't about putting an animals welfare above your own pride, it is about risking it all to allegedly put an animal out of it's misery.
I don't know you, but from what you have posted I assume you are a guide? Maybe own your own business? If you were to get caught doing what this individual did, would you lose your license? Your business? If so, would you still do it?
There is very little upside compared to the downside as many have learned. To me, feeding my family would take priority.

Rut
 
If people don't want to do business with me because I do what is right and not just what the law tells me I can do, then so be it. Putting a wounded animal down isn't "risking it all". As much as some here may want it, this man's life isn't going to end over this.

I am a taxidermist that guides on occasion.
 
Ok, in your case it doesn't end your life, but for some it could definitely change the way they live or make their living, especially if it snowballed into a felony conviction. Step out side your box Tri, not everyone is in the same position you are, there are people out there who could get fired for missing a day of work to fight this in court, could lose professional licenses, it could be someone's 3rd strike. Everyone's situation and perspective is different, as much as you like to think their are no boundaries in life, you seem to think that morals and ethics are black and white with no gray areas.

Rut
 
Actually you couldn't be further from the truth. I am constantly evaluating my ethics. The difference between me and others is I am not scared to do so. Most people love to drop the trump card of "the law says so" and dodge ever having to stand against a bully or stand with nothing but their ethics behind them. Those are the black and white people to scared to even talk about the gray.
 
He didn't do the right thing!!!!!!!!!!! If this would have been on a general spike hunt, would he have done the same thing. Ill bet the bank he would have not. The only reason he did what he did is because it was a trophy bull.
 
OK, keep avoiding the issue to make yourself look like a saint. If it comes down to life or death and your ethics make that decision, are you still going with your ethics regardless of the outcome?
 
Flatdead,

there is absolutely nothing in that statement that amounts to anything more than presumed BS and you know it.

Rutcrazed,

Now you are being melodramatic.
 
No, that is how you avoid admitting that it isn't entirely black and white, therefore proving you are wrong.
Keep deflecting.
 
NVB, success rate for B zone in California is estimated at 20%. I haven't killed a deer in 4 years, so F&W is counting on me this year.:)

Eel

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.
 
>NVB, success rate for B zone
>in California is estimated at
>20%. I haven't killed a
>deer in 4 years, so
>F&W is counting on me
>this year.:)
>
>Eel
>
>Guns are like parachutes. If you
>need one and don't have
>one you probably will never
>need one again.

You can't let F&W down! That would be unethical!
 
>NVB, success rate for B zone
>in California is estimated at
>20%. I haven't killed a
>deer in 4 years, so
>F&W is counting on me
>this year.:)
>
>Eel
>

Then carry-on eel!

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 

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