Utah COLORADO hunters

[Grizz]

Those of you rich guys that get to hunt in Colorado...I'm curious

1- What do they have that we don't?
2- Is the habitat different?
3- Do they have cheat grass infestation?
4- Are their good hunting areas isolated or like Utah with little towns surrounding them?
5- Do they have control of predators?
6- Is it simply management?
7- Do they have a zillion Barney Fifes or do they really have Biologists?
8- Does the BLM/US Forest manage for cattle like in Utah?
9- Do they have superior deer habitat?
10- Any other ideas/factors on why they are successful & we suck?

 

[one_dryboot]

I will answer Q# 10. Its called they manage the herd!!!!! Utah doesn't give a ##### if we kill all the bucks. They will just post B.S numbers and continue to sell the shiz out of tags.
Then Anis will write an article stating that the reason why hunters are not seeing game is because of the unusually hot weather and all the deer are up high.
Then the following year Anis will say the reason why hunters are not seeing any game is because of the winter weather that has hit causing all the deer to not come out. Then the next year it's because of ******** el Nino.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Colorado does manage for a few of the Bucks to live past age 1.5!

This MOTL Crap here in TARDville ain't cuttin it!



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


I've got Wild Honey Tree's and Crazy Little Weeds growin around my Shack!
These Dusty Roads ain't streets of gold but I'm happy right where I'm at!
All these Perty little Western Belles are a Country Boys Dream!
They ain't got Wings or MM Halo's but they sure look good to me!

 

[brutus54]

Colorado went to a state wide Draw for deer and broke the state up in small units awhile back. More Bucks less Hunters Utah was slow at doing the same thing! Time will tell I hope.

 

[Downrange]

They have DEER

 

[why]

+1

 

[why]

+1

 

[3blade]

Then
>the next year it's because
>of ******** el Nino.

ROFLMAO!!!

 

[Grizz]

but why do they have deer?

 

[Zeke]

Grizz,
First off, if I were rich, I'd be hunting private land every year and to he!! with you little people!
There is alot of provate land without much hunting pressure. If the deer can grow, they'll grow on private land and spill over onto public land.

Second, they control harvest more closely (like our new units should, along with reduced tag numbers)

Third, one-dryboot is a funny phuquer! I like that guy!

There are certainly a bunch more reasons than these but it's a good start.

Zeke

 

[Dikndirt]

Answer to question #2 Colorado has much more deer habitat.

 

[Gator]

Q1#
TAGS.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[mulecreek]

A bunch of good habitat helps. They were quicker to develop a plan. They also stick to a plan for more than a year. Utah jumps from idea to idea and never works their plan. They have tons of predators. Bears, lions and coyotes all over the place. This should tell you something about Utahs coyote management idea and how well it is going to work.

Even with all this going for them it is not like Colorado is seeing great increasing trends in it herds. They are just not dropping as fast as Utah.

 

[sled_guy]

I can't comment on deer... I've only been hunting elk there. And I'm not telling where. But, my buddies and I have drawn tags there 3 or the last 4 years and we have killed 4x4 plus bulls every year. Hunting is a lot like the Book Cliffs where we hunt and we see a LOT of animals.

The DWR guy I have met in that area is a great guy. He's very concerned about managing the area and asks lots of questions of us every year about what we are seeing, how the habitat compares to previous year, what the animals are like and such.

I would classify my experience in Colorado as quite a bit better than open bull hunting in Utah but not as good as limited entry hunting in Utah. But that is exactly what I want... a chance to hunt and harvest branch antler bulls with better than 1 in 10 odds.

sled_guy

 

[Ticks N Tines]

I'm actually pretty poor, but I can still afford to apply for Colorado. It's around $300 for a non-res tag. If it takes a rich guy to pay that, you must live in a van down by the river. You probably spend twice that just scouting and getting ready for your Utah hunt.

Just my opinion

 

[Grizz]

Nice comment... someday the van & River may not be so bad. I have heard that it isn't all that expensive but usually is well worth it. May have to go that route if Utah continues as is.

 

[BigGameHunter24816]

Just looking at the numbers...

CO Deer pop. estimated around 400,000; Elk at 280,000
UT Deer pop. estimated around 300,000; Elk at 70,000

 

[gznokes]

I agree w Zeke's comments and I'll add that CO has a ton of open space. The open space they have seems to be excellent deer habitat. Utah of course has a ton of open space too but a lot of it is like the salt desert. Just imagine what the deer herd could be if that marginal UT deer habitat was good.

 

[Zeke]

If I had to bet a nickle, I'd say the actual deer numbers for Ut are well under 300K. I'm not making accusations about padded numbers but I suspect the "computer model" is just a little off.
Zeke

 

[theox]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-12 AT 08:50PM (MST)[p]>If I had to bet a
>nickle, I'd say the actual
>deer numbers for Ut are
>well under 300K. I'm not
>making accusations about padded numbers
>but I suspect the "computer
>model" is just a little
>off.
>Zeke


+1 every year for the last 7 or 8 years that i really started hunting hard i see less and less deer yet the numbers are supposedly about the same according to the dwr. i just do not believe we have 300,000 deer. if the 300,000 number was correct 7 or 8 years ago id say we are now down to 150,000- 200,000 of course there is no data to back that that is just my opinion, i see half the deer i did 7 or 8 years ago. almost everyday of the archery hunt i could have shot a deer(dinks included) now im lucky to get a shot opportunity every 2-3 days. I personally feel i am alot wiser and better hunter then before but i just dont feel like i see that many deer like i used to. everyone i know reports the same things. I still find mature bucks to hunt but not as many

 

[325wsm]

The colorado dwr seems to be willing to cut tags when needed. They seem to manage for deer numbers not dollars like utah. Utah manages for the dollar amount from tags first and for deer numbers second. Colorado seems to have a plan and they stick to it, where utah seems to change their 5 year mangagement plan every two years.

 

[Daxter]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-12 AT 03:31PM (MST)[p]Some of the difference I have noticed between CO and UT.

In my opinion, tag numbers are the answer. In 1999 CO cut deer tags IN HALF. In the early and mid 2000's they enjoyed some of the best overall quality mule deer hunting seen in any western state in decades. Since 2007 they have also suffered through some rough winters and have lost lots of deer. But, because they still have proportionally much less pressure on their bucks than states like UT and ID, they consistently have higher buck to doe ratios and higher trophy quality. In my opinion, UT could have buck quality equal to or greater than CO. However, it would probably mean about 40,000 more deer hunters sitting out each year in addition to those that already can't get a tag.

There is a big difference between growing more deer and increasing buck quality. Population trends and overall deer number in CO don't look that much different than they do in UT over the last few years. Both states have had some bad winter losses recently. However, CO did make major cuts to buck tags on the units with the biggest losses, UT did not. Quality has bounced back relatively quickly in CO.

CO isn't some magical Mule Deer Shangri-la, they just have decided to give up opportunity for higher quality. UT has done the same thing for elk, while CO manages elk for opportunity. NV manages for buck to doe ratios similar to those of CO, but NV has much fewer deer and less deer habitat.

There are other factors too.

CO does have a lot of really good deer habitat, more than UT.

There is more private land and fewer large contiguous chunks of public. Often management on private parcels is beneficial to public land hunters.

Interestingly, CDOW doesn't do any coyote control, and doesn't allow hound hunting for bears. They are really conservative on bears and lions.

They also don't do anywhere near the habitat improvement work that is done in UT.

Either all the predator control and habitat work in UT haven't been effective at growing deer numbers, or if they are working deer numbers would be REALLY low if we hadn't done anything. Something to think about...

Just some of my observations.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

 

[theox]

good pts dax

 

[carbonnation]

Good management is worth its wait in gold....having said that, Utah is a desert. Water is the key. Comparing utah habitat to colorado habitat is like comparing Green River to Heber. Or the Yankees to the Royals. We don't get the consistant moisture they do and consequently our habitat is limited. unfortunately people like to live in that limited habitat because it is usually greener and cooler. Seems like more and more habitat is lost to development every year.

 

[Elkhunter96]

I believe I saw that the deer tag quota for Colorado this year was 78,500. I just moved to the state, so I am a newbie there. However, I do think they have two things in their favor, more habitat and better management. I have hunted elk as a non-resident a few times in Colorado and as someone said, it is a lot better than the Utah any bull hunts, but not as good as the LE hunts for elk.

 

[Hooner]

I am a big fan of Colorado. One key factor that I see is that they do not spread the biologist out like UT. For example it is not uncommon for a biologist to work in one unit or even two biologist will split a large unit.
In Utah you will have one biologist over three or four units. This is a recipe for failure. Our biologist spend so much time running around from unit to unit that they really dont know what is going on. It is by no means the biologist fault. It is the systems fault.
Also Colorado does a great job of actually knowing how many of each resource they have. Deer, elk, etc. I don't feel that Utah really knows what we have.
In my experience Colorado does what is right for the animals and not what is right for the pocket book. If they have a die off they will cut tags in that unit knowing that when they grow the herd back to the management goal they can increase tags. Utah manages for revenue. They don't want to cut tags due to loss revenue.

Last thing is they don't have 500 stupid conservation tags.

 

[Grizz]

Thanks for some interesting comments. It's a sad situation here in Utah. I really like the point that Colorado had feet on the ground (biologists) verses Utah's emphasis on having Barney Fife out there just in case one of their rare endangered species elMuley should be spotted by a hunter.... really don't have anything against Wardens with a badge just the lack of science on the ground.

 

[goofyelk]

It will be interesting to watch Wyoming as well.
After experiencing heavy winter losses they have made changes.

Antler restictions and reduced permits on MANY units.
Their ACTUALY managing their deer !!

Unlike Utah, were deer management has SUCKed big time!

If Wyoming is successful in this endeavor, (I'm betting it will)

I think we (Utahns) should take it to the RACs & Board to use
the same ideas Wyoming is using on our deer herds ...

 

[AnythingAntler]

Co biologists get out of there trucks and Ut biologists have computers that do all their field work for them. I have hunted all over Northern Utah since I was 13 (now 35) and have never seen a biologists in the woods where they belong.

 

[mickeymouseoutfitters]

I live just across the border in Idaho. I hunt Colorado, but quality units. I can wait a few years for a quality trophy, unlike my neighbors who think they need to harvest every year. The best part is that they complain about there not being many deer. I thought if you didn't shoot a deer this year, next year it will be in the same place and larger. But someone always shoots that deer. That is why I hunt Colorado.

 

[co79z]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-12 AT 10:10PM (MST)[p]Has anyone considered that Colorado just has better hunters? I read the complaints from you guys all of the time, yet my group has good opportunity and success on a general deer tag in Utah every year. This may get things going! Enjoy

 

[Zeke]

>LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-12
>AT 10:10?PM (MST)
>
>Has anyone considered that Colorado just
>has better hunters? I read
>the complaints from you guys
>all of the time, yet
>my group has good opportunity
>and success on a general
>deer tag in Utah every
>year. This may get things
>going! Enjoy

LOL. That's a thought but I'd think it would be difficult to lump hunters into classes based on geography.

I think everyone likes to whine from time to time. Everyone want better deer hunting but the same folks complain when the units are reduced in size and the tags numbers are cut. Other States get kudos when they do it but when OUR State does it the F&G gets tarred and feathered. Go figure!

Zeke

 

[hossblur]

>Just looking at the numbers...
>
>CO Deer pop. estimated around 400,000;
>Elk at 280,000
>UT Deer pop. estimated around 300,000;
>Elk at 70,000


Impossible, SFW says that we have to many elk and they are killing off the deer via starvation. How can you have more 100,000 more deer, and 210,000 more elk? The reason is simple. The same force field that has kept the wolves out of utah, lets too many deer head east. We need a better shield!


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!

 

[hossblur]

Those dudes in boulder that don't wash their hair and wear a lot of flannel are just straight up damn tough, bet they are the hunters you mean.



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!