Utah Desert Sheep Discovered

[bowhunt]

Hi Guys,
The last 3 years while Jeeping into the East side of the Hole in the Rock, I have encountered Desert Sheep.
Last year I saw 6, the year before 5. All while just glassing off of that NASTY, almost impassable trail.

There currently is NO Sheep hunt in that area.
I have reported the sightings to the FG. I have encouraged them to fly the area and see what the numbers look like.

Have any of you been in that area?

 

[treedagain]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-13 AT 02:13PM (MST)[p]mowhunt, where is the hole in the rock you are talking about?

HERE IS A PERFECT WAY THAT THE UTFNAWS and SFW can spend some of there money to help help research out the area and see if a viable population exists...


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait

 

[awbmab]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-13 AT 02:56PM (MST)[p]Is it north of Lake Powell, and west of Bullfrog?

How about this area? Kaiparowits, Escalante
http://wildlife.utah.gov/maps/public/details_boundary.php?boundary_id=99

 

[tallbuck1]

From a google search for "hole in the rock" and then looking at the link from the hunt boundaries, it is located in the southern part of the Kaiparowits unit. So the question is were the sheep discovered outside of the hunt boundaries (South Side of Hole in the Rock Road) or are they on the north (Kaiparowits, Escalante Unit)?



Tallbuck1

 

[littlebighorn]

It is my understanding that all those units butt up against each other, making all those sheep in one unit or another.
Are you talking about the south side of Lake Powell or North?

 

[Zeke]

>It is my understanding that all
>those units butt up against
>each other, making all those
>sheep in one unit or
>another.
>Are you talking about the south
>side of Lake Powell or
>North?

+1


That's correct Rick.
The Escalante unit is on the northerly side and the Kiparowits East unit is on the south. They butt up to each other and run all the way to the lake (northwest shoreline is the south-easterly boundry).

If the sheep are on the same side of the lake (north west side) as Hole in the rock, then they are in one of those units.

Mike, I can't figure out where they would be outside those units but I'll dig a little deeper.

Those units have been struggling a bit as have a number of desert sheep units.... or so says the big boys. Good to know there are actually sheep there.

Zeke

 

[Zeke]

I just checked the area maps and I think the hole-in-the-rock road is the boundry between the two units. NE or the road is the Escalante unit and the SW of the same road is the East Karparowits unit.

Zeke

 

[Trix4me]

When you say east side of hole in the rock road did you mean east side of Lake Powell across from the HITR? I have jeeped that one. A real rough trip.

 

[Zeke]

>When you say east side of
>hole in the rock road
>did you mean east side
>of Lake Powell across from
>the HITR? I have jeeped
>that one. A real rough
>trip.

You are right. That side of the lake would be out of the boundaries of either unit previously discussed here.

 

[bowhunt]

The area I am talking about is on theneast side of lake Powell.
You access it by turning south off of the road that gooes between Halls Crossing and Blanding.
Looks like there is no sheep unit there.
It is south of the South San Juan unit.
Some key points in the area I am talking about.
lake Creek, Castle Creek, and of course the Big Bend of the San Juan River.

 

[Trix4me]

That road ends at the top of cottonwood canyon, rough, dirty ignorant, tough FUN trail.

 

[Zeke]

>The area I am talking about
>is on theneast side of
>lake Powell.
>You access it by turning south
>off of the road that
>gooes between Halls Crossing and
>Blanding.
>Looks like there is no sheep
>unit there.
>It is south of the South
>San Juan unit.
>Some key points in the area
>I am talking about.
>lake Creek, Castle Creek, and of
>course the Big Bend of
>the San Juan River.


Oh, very interesting...and sweet! That certainly isn't in a current unit since it's south of the South San Juan unit.
It will be interesting to see if the F&G react to your information.
Zeke

 

[MulePacker]

I assume you are talking of Grey Mesa and Wilson Mesa areas Northeast to HWY 276. I don't believe they are included in any sheep unit. I have wondered why this is the case.

 

[tallbuck1]

Sounds Like we need some solid answers from the UDWR as to why if there is a population of sheep in the area.



Tallbuck1

 

[treedagain]

i will repeat my thought that SFW and UTFNAWS should pony up the money and manpower to see if this is a viable population of sheep and if not transplant sheep to make it so and if not move them to a suitable location or to augment to existing population

 

[Zeke]

Those of us who belong to both orgs would certainly be willing to help.
Those who do not belong should do so.....and be willing to step-up.
The more good people involved, the more positive impact there will be.
Ultimately it will be up to the F&G as what to do with the herd.
Zeke

 

[DocVideo]

These sheep are probably spill over from the Mexican Hat herd that have been in and around that area of the San Juan river for years. The Navajo Res. has desert hunts there every year with a herd that is doing rather well from what I see and hear. There have been reports of sheep on the north side of the river for years and sheep have been sited on the east shores of Lake Powell in the San Juan South unit as well. Good to hear they are making there way up from the San Juan.
Adam

 

[bowhunt]

LAST EDITED ON May-01-13 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]I hope we get this herd going!

 

[bowhunt]

According to the members of the 1879 Mormon expedition through this area.
Desert Sheep have always been on Grey Mesa, and along the San Juan River into Utah.
One member of the expedition was lead off of Grey Mesa by a Bighorn...later this same path was taken by the rest of the group that had been stuck on top for days.
Pretty cool, and evidence that these sheep have been there a LONG time.
So, lets go hunt em.

 

[Zeke]

That's some very interesting history about an exceptional region and incredible animal.
One of the finest dead-heads (deer) that I've ever found came from the north side of the San Juan River arm. I've hiked a ton in that area but have yet to see sheep. I've seen old droppings but assumed they were deer since we do see them along there.
This is some cool stuff to me!!!
Zeke

 

[littlebighorn]

LAST EDITED ON May-01-13 AT 02:52PM (MST)[p]I know there have been some relatively recent sheep transplants into the Johns canyon area on that side of Lake Powell. I also believe there are more sheep scheduled to go that way, so I know the DWR is aware of those.
It would be great to expand our desert herds as much as possible. I would love to come even close to the numbers our neighbors to the south and west have.

By the way, my wife's grandfather Benjamin Perkins was an old miner in the "hole in the rock" group and he helped engineer a way through that nasty country.

 

[eurosbyRT]

Ive done the trail many times in the last 20 yrs and have seen sheep in the area many of the times. that trail is one of the funnest jeep trails this state has.

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[Trammer]

The area is Wilson Mesa and like the Zions Sheep Unit has been home to wild sheep for decades. I have seen them myself for decades from the west edge across from polly wog bench (likely the ones you saw) to as far east as Wirlwind Draw. I reported my observations to the DWR in 1998 or 1999 with the typical pooh-pooh response.
A few years earlier I had hiked up Shunes Creek in the now Zions Unit and found a large ewe band and rutting nucleus far outside Zions Park. At that time I reported my finding to The Park Service Biologist as well as to the Sheep Biologist with the Southern Region as well as to SouthEast Region...Nothing ever came of it. I even published my dismay at the Utah DWR in my hunting Video.You can imagine my anger when the Dopes at the DWR claimed to have "discovered" the Zions sheep in 2008.
I suspect the sheep have always been there or resulted from natural dispersion of the South San Juan Sheep across the south edge of the Mancos Mesa. There is even a third possibility: that they ocurred as a result of the the presumed failed Long and Bounds Canyon transplant of the Escalante. I believe the Area was reintroduced twice.
The common theory has been that the the Long and Bounds transplants had failed due to lion predation. As Wild Sheep are known to swim. I think the Sheep may have escaped the lions in the south Escalante simply by swimming across the narrow neck(you can drive a golf ball across it in places) of Powell.
If past performance of the Utah DWR means anything we can all expect that the DWR will discover the Wilson Mesa sheep about 10 years from now.

 

[Zeke]

This is so true Trammer.
I remember talking with you about these "discovered" sheep units long before anyone else knew about them... or at least before they admitted to knowing about them.
It would be great to have another unit. It would help spread out the applicants a little bit better and allow us to utilize another resource.
Thanks bowhunt for bringing this to the forefront again.
Zeke

 

[littlebighorn]

Trammer,
Your knowledge and experience with Utah Desert Sheep is impressive and well documented. The video I got from you many years ago attests to your knowledge of the Zion herd. Your influence and that video are some of the chief reasons for my serious case of Ovis Pyrexia.
Labeling the DWR as "dopes" implies general incompetence and I think that is unfair. My son works for the division and I certainly don't characterize him as being a dope! Given the mountain of regulations agencies have to comply with, their hands are often tied, from doing what seems like common sense to the rest of us. I know the division is well aware of the sheep in that general area and I am also told they are planning future translocations there. I agree with Zeke it would be awesome if we could get another herd established well enough to hunt since so many units are currently in trouble with disease and predation. No doubt we can all help by being proactive in reporting sightings and or problems we see while we are out and about.

 

[Deerlove]

I hope we can get another herd established, that way we can sell 5 tags, give two to NR's and one to a state hunter.

 

[heartshot]

A few years ago, the thought of buying a sheep tag crossed my mind....I concluded my house was more important.

 

[Trammer]

LittleBighorn, I offer criticism when criticism is due and insult when insult is due. I could give you dozens of examples of bad work by the Utah DWR concerning its Wild Sheep Management program alone.
Think of the despise you would have for someone who were to poach a Bighorn ram in Utah. The despise you would have for the loss of such a majestic animal. The loss of the resource, the loss of the ability to hunt the animal by an eager sportsman.The tragedy.Now think of the incompetancy of the DWR concerning just the Zions sheep unit.
The unit was planted in the park almost 40 years ago and because the bulk of the prime habitat occurs south of the park, the core use area soon became south and outside the national park. The fact is the Zions Unit should have been opened about the same time that the North San Juan was closed.

Sportsmen should have been hunting south of Zions back in the 1980s.Not starting in 2010. Hundreds of rams have died of old age south of Zions for decades. Hundreds of sheep hunters lost their chance at a ram. Hundreds of sheep hunters have died waiting for a chance at a ram. Hundreds of rams being poached or dieing of natural causes at the hands of a complacent DWR does and should warrant similar outrage by sportmen.Calling DWR agents dopes when they are being dopey seems almost kind.

What happened in 2009 that couldnt have happened in 1985? The answer is nothing. I suppose in my mind the DWR agents of the last four years are to be complimented for their good work as well.

 

[littlebighorn]

Trammer,
As a hunter, I totally agree that the Zion unit was way over due in opening up and yes, I would have loved to have taken one of the large rams that died of old age there.
My point is, laying the blame totally on DWR employees and calling them incompetent dopes, ignores the mountains of red tape and interests other than hunters(land owners, recreationalists, park officials, BLM, Forest Service, Politics, Federal Interests, etc., etc.) the division has to fight to make things happen.
As a part of the division, my son is as bright and as hard working as anyone I know and it is offensive to have a broad brush call him a "dope"!
I know you have a sour taste in your mouth for the DWR that I am never going to change and I also recognize and admire your passion for desert sheep (perhaps exceeded by none). It is just hard for me to listen to so much thankless criticism unleashed on hard working, underpaid guys with equal passion and love for wildlife, knowing that they rarely have control over what they get blamed for.
You are a bright, hard working guy who loves the outdoors. Why didn't you go to work for the DWR?
Sorry Brad, I couldn't resist that question. LOL

 

[treedagain]

After seeing the unbelievable BS of a deal they put it to the UTAH residents in regards to the DESERT SHEEP tag allocation and the amount of tags at the EXPO for NON-RESIDENTS only. i can feel some of frustration trammer is feeling, add in the mis-management of the oquirah cali herd in regards to lion depradation. i think they have failed in ALOT of venues in regards to sheep and managemnet of our resources in general.
CWMU's, the VAST amount of conservation tags, EXPO tags, ETC.

 

[Trammer]

Littlebighorn,
To answer your question. I dont apply for a job with the Utah DWR because I dont have family that already works for the Division. Isnt that how the DWR works? All the telecommuting, gravey train DWR jobs go to existing DWR family members. Dont most qualified applicants get turned away in favor of cronyism and Nepotism? Sorry I couldnt resist the answer.