Utah.... Seriously!

browtine

browtine

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-15 AT 05:56PM (MST)[p]http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=37681661&nid=1288&title=number-of-animals-illegally-killed-in-utah-increases-for-2nd-consecutive-year&s_cid=queue-10

Number of illegally killed animals in 2014 vs. 2015:

2014 numbers:

1,320 total fish and wildlife
617 fish
166 non-trophy mule deer
9 trophy mule deer
77 non-trophy elk

2015 numbers:

1,375 fish and wildlife
779 fish
188 non-trophy mule deer
15 trophy mule deer
114 non-trophy elk
43 trophy elk
 
Imagine how many do not get caught. Why were there zero throphy elk in 2014? Did they just start counting them in 2015?
 
There is a way to curb it. If animal is shot from a vehicle. Vehicle and guns are seized and auctioned off. Same if vehicle is used to transport illegally killed animal. If trophy animal is killed illegally, up the fines and add 3-6 months jail time.
Loose hunting rights for ten years and if caught hunting during those ten years, felony conviction with jail time and loose right to posses firearms.

RELH
 
DW has it right! It happens everywhere but we (Utah) certainly have our share of game thugs!
Zeke
 
I don't know of any action taken would stop or curb the poaching,it does seem like the more laws and stricter reguLatinos there is the more poaching you here about. The ones that make me mad and disgusted are the trophy poachers for just the antlers and leave the rest to waste them are the ones that need to be felony charges hunting privileges taken away for no less than 10 yrs if not life but they just doing it regardless.
 
Heard they caught lots of guys poaching trophy bulls during the spike season. Now with the trophy bull tag during the spike season there will be no way to know what is legal and what is illegal. Those numbers are sad and goes to show how far some take it to get a set of antlers.
 
>I don't know of any action
>taken would stop or curb
>the poaching,it does seem like
>the more laws and stricter
>reguLatinos there is the more
>poaching you here about. The
>ones that make me mad
>and disgusted are the trophy
>poachers for just the antlers
>and leave the rest to
>waste them are the ones
>that need to be felony
>charges hunting privileges taken away
>for no less than 10
>yrs if not life but
>they just doing it regardless.

Like this. This is not in Utah but Iowa. Our deer season started Saturday and this was killed late Friday night or early Sat morning.

68181010189.jpg
 
I agree with brownie, there needs to be more DWR officers. I took a course with a lady who was assigned to the wasatch unit. I asked her how many officers they had for the wasatch unit and she said 2 total! No wonder poachers aren't scared of being caught! There aren't enough officers to even make a dent. This was manifest to me later that year when I called in a violation and they said they could send someone out tomorrow to take my statement. The violator was still in the area, and could have been apprehended easily. By the next day they were long gone!

}}-SLIVER-->
 
If you make the penalty very severe such as seizing their vehicle and firearms. You will need more officers as there is more chances the suspect will resist arrest knowing he is going to loose his vehicle and all guns in the vehicle. Wardens would have to work in pairs for safety.

RELH
 
And these are just the ones that are caught or known about.

What about private landowners where DNR Officers can't patrol at all and there is no chance of a citizen driving by and observing a violation..?? Not to mention, how many of us have seen an animal in a truck when it was not during any hunt, but because of CWMU's long season dates we figured it must have been from a CWMU..?? How many deer and elk are poached during hunt dates, but because they were killed during a hunt, its easy to tell everyone you got it during the hunt.?? Or you tag an LE animal with your general season tag..??

There are so many ways to poach and as long as there are criminals in the mountains, animals will be poached. We can all help, but there will never be a "0" for poaching... :-(

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
LBH,
Your link didn't work for me but I'm sure it was good.



There are not enough officers and probably never will be so I suppose it falls on our shoulders to do report everything suspicious as soon as we can. You never know where it will lead but it won't go anywhere if we're not involved.

We truly need to police our own ranks (I suspect the link says something like this).

Zeke
 
I culled the herd of poachers taking out old honest abe. What's everyone else's prob? Funny thing is how many of the 'heros' of the big buck sluts turn out to be poachers.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
I find it hard to worry about micro poaching in Utah when every animal taken in Utah has been Macro poached since 1972. !972 was the year 23-20-8 was passed and no animal in Utah has been legally taken since.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-15 AT 04:53PM (MST)[p]Ok Trammer, I'll bite. What is 23-20-8?

edi: I assume you mean this...

23-20-8 - Waste of wildlife unlawful.




[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
>I find it hard to worry
>about micro poaching in Utah
>when every animal taken in
>Utah has been Macro poached
>since 1972. !972 was the
>year 23-20-8 was passed and
>no animal in Utah has
>been legally taken since.



23-20-8 states:
23-20-8. Waste of wildlife unlawful.
Except as otherwise provided in this title, or by rule made by the Wildlife Board under this title, or by an order or proclamation issued in accordance with a rule made by the Wildlife Board under this title, a person may not waste or permit to be wasted protected wildlife or a part of protected wildlife.

Amended by Chapter 282, 2013 General Session



What in this section leads you to believe animals have been poached in the masses? This code says nothing about the taking of game but rather how to care for a game animal after its been harvested.
 
wasting of wildlife or any part of it in Utah is a predicate offense and considered the same as poaching. To waste is to unlawfully take.
States where intelligent people run their Wildlife departments define exactly what is to be salvaged and what may be left at the kill sight. All states but Utah I understand define meat as having to salvaged and the best states actually define what cuts need to be salvaged. like in Wyoming, if you take the backstraps and all 4 quarters you are good to go.
So in Utah when the buffoons at DWR pass a silly law that says "all or any part" must be salvaged. Hunters are not limited to cuts nor meat or muscle. Parts is Parts. Any part that has beneficial use must be salvaged if you want your animal to be legally taken. That means tongues, internal organs, hide etc. You better pack out and hose out your gut pile and take it to Khunis for rendering if you dont want to be a Poacher in Utah. Bottom line in Utah is Nobody does it does it; salvages any and all parts. Everyone is a Poacher.

Stupid Laws weaken good Laws.
 
I have found that there is always more to the story

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
The only thing that list represents is those that were stupid enough to get caught. The majority of poachers per year do not get caught. I lived in southern Utah for quite a few years and poaching is virtually part of the culture in that part of the state. It's a wonder any deer reach trophy size with the pressure they receive.
 
Trimmer knows more about poaching than most. He hates the DWR for as he put, what they did to him. If you don't like the laws trammer, work to change them. You certainly are not earning points for the future when you will want them.
 
Birdmin, I am not a Lawmaker, why would I work to change the Law? Fish Pigs, Fish Cops, Bush Pigs and Conservation Officers do that.
What do you mean earning points for the future? I am not an Arsekisser like you. I dont need to be validated, I dont want or need anything from anybody. I am not weak like you. It sounds like being a poacher doesnt sit well with you Birdmin.
 
Your right trammer. Poachers do not sit well with me. I don't have need of them. I do enjoy my hunting privileges, how are yours.
Your also right, your not a lawyer. But then most the changes come from public input in pushing for a change. That system works well. You need to try it instead of bad mouthing the dwr and the board. Not smart to bad mouth then ask for favors.
 
I'm not saying I'm on Trammer's side or share his attitude in general, but if Utah does not clearly define what needs to be taken out of the field, then technically he is correct that every animal is illegal. The state I live in now clearly defines what has to be recovered from the field. It removes any gray area.
 
Trammer, I'm having a hard time following your logic. But that may just be because your last few posts lack logic.

Saying that because the state of Utah doesn't clearly define what parts of an animal need be taken doesn't mean the animal was taken illegally or poached as you have described.

To take and to unlawfully waste are two separate things as defined in the state code book .

So no, wanton waste is not the same as poaching and therefore animals have been taken legally .
 
Ok to get us back on track, I think "yes" we definitely have a poaching problem in the state of Utah, and "yes" we definitely need more DWR officers but I have addressed this before with one of our big game boards back when Rex Powell was tipping over thirty some odd deer out to Vernon, and while doing a sting on a suspected poacher, the poacher himself come driving in his drive way with a 30" inch buck in the back of his pickup, was caught red handed, so here is what I was told: the DWR can do all they can, have all the evidence in the world,, but at the end of the day all the above goes to some prosecuting attorney in the county that the crime was committed in and it is left up to him and the poachers attorney to work it out or go to trial, well how many poaching trials do you all remember hearing about?? Not enough that's for sure!! These so called prosecuting attorneys have to many drug heads, child abusers, rapist, ect. on there plate that poaching isn't all that important to them so they get plee bargained down to nothing more than a slap on the hand, well as I told the board, hunting is my passion and I am lucky enough to have had my fair share of great hunting experience's with my boys, family and friends, but it is my grandkids and the youth that this state is always promoting that I worry about. So for me poaching should not be bargained down before it ever sees a trial, say what you will but until we the hunters put some heat on our law makers to uphold the laws we have we are going to have a poaching problem!!!!!! Unfortunately in the state of Utah poaching is cheap!!!!
 
Oneshot, on what basis do you think Utah needs more Game Wardens. According to their own statistics exactly 15 trophy mule deer were poached in Utah last year and 9 the year before yet Utah has 50 full time Game Wardens, Utah has 20 more Game Wardens than Nevada and the Nevada Wardens do double duty on Boating or State Park Rangers as well. Utahs Game Wardens are asleep in the Doughnut Shops.There is not enough work to keep them busy and you want more.

Travishunter3006, you need to study up on your Wildlife Law, when wasting occurs on what would otherwise be a legally taken animal the Law deems it taken illegally. WANTON DESTRUCTION

The problem with Utahs Law is that it is very specific. "A PART"
A Part, is any part. So, the first legal test that is applied is; is it a part of a wild animal? The second is; does that part have beneficial use?...I can only think of 1 part of an animal that may not have beneficial use and that is the brain. So take everything else, leave the brain at the killsight and you may not a poacher. Of coarse the State could call a Historical Tanner to testify against you about how he tans animal hides using the brain of the animal...better take the brain...and find someone to use it. Oh, and dont forget to do the paperwork.
 
>Trammer, I'm having a hard time
>following your logic. But that
>may just be because your
>last few posts lack logic.
>
>
>Saying that because the state of
>Utah doesn't clearly define what
>parts of an animal need
>be taken doesn't mean the
>animal was taken illegally or
>poached as you have described.
>
>
>To take and to unlawfully waste
>are two separate things as
>defined in the state code
>book .
>
>So no, wanton waste is not
>the same as poaching and
>therefore animals have been taken
>legally .


You hit the problem with your second sentence Travis! You have to read an awful lot of posts by Trammer to find one that has any real logic in it and there aren't any in this particular thread!
 
Trammer, hey pal I don't know you and by the sounds of your post I don't want to know you but let me remind you that this is a post on poaching numbers, I, and it sounds like many others could care less about the stiffy you have for the Utah DWR, I am by no means a strong supporter myself so please do all of us concerned hunters a favor and next time you see one of those DWR officers asleep in a donut shop go kick the chair out from under him and tell him to get to work. Before you rant maybe get your facts straight, take the Henry Mtns. For instance, one of the best places in the WORLD to hunt mule deer, well do me a favor and enlighten me and tell me how many of them $35-40,000 a year donut eaters patrol that unit, I've been wrong before but if I'm not mistaken its "1" and to me that is freakin ridiculous, Tram, nothing personal I personally don't trust Utah DWR statistics as far as I can throw them, I think our wildlife is in serious trouble but I also think it comes from many different directions, but as this post started out I think that poaching is a big contributor , you like everyone else is entitled to your opinion so you read the rules however you chose to do so and let the rest of us do the same, good luck
 
Topgun or should I call you Bottomrung. According to you everything I have said on this thread does not make any sense. Normally when someone says such a thing, they give an example. Please tell us what is not logical.
 
Hey Trammer,
Why don't YOU go ahead and read up on Utah State law and then hopefully you'll be able to understand that wanton waste is not considered poaching. I don't know if arguing with you will be helpful though as you seem to have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader (no disrespect to 3rd graders).


Go ahead and post the state law which backs your argument.
 
Utah says they are ramping up there patrols in the winter. Why not include something in the dedicated hunter hours to help with this. Guys could go out and observe true herd numbers including sex ratio's, and be on the prowl for unsuspecting poachers also. Just an idea.
 
travishunter3006, give us your definition of what poaching is? I usually rely on Webster for my definitions. According to Webster POACHING is to take game illegally. Utah DWR thinks there are 10 ways to unlawfully take. Now, if you are a fourth grader can you tell us what the 10 ways are?....when you graduate to fifth grade you will learn that an animal does not need to be killed to be poached. Excuse me, I think I will go poach the old lady.
 
And here we go again. We know what poaching is. We know that in certain areas its part of a culture. We know its ravaging herds. We know its increasing. But then we get a dude that Tram, that wants to dirty the water.

I agree with the seizure part. In fact I would support that all money collected from seizures be earmarked for that area to soley support hiring more DWR for that area. Not for more administrators in Salt Lake. If the DWR in Beaver seizes a couple of trucks, let them sell them and use that money to hire another DWR in Beaver.

There is no grey area in shooting a deer in Jan. and leaving it. You poached it. If you shoot that 2point bull on a spike unit and turn yourself in, sure, there is a difference. But if you shoot it, and leave laying, then you deserve the same penalty. Accidents happen, and we all know it, but no one accidentally shoots a 30" buck on winter range in Feb.. I think we could start there.




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>travishunter3006, give us your definition of
>what poaching is? I usually
>rely on Webster for my
>definitions. According to Webster POACHING
>is to take game illegally.
>Utah DWR thinks there are
>10 ways to unlawfully take.
>Now, if you are a
>fourth grader can you tell
>us what the 10 ways
>are?....when you graduate to fifth
>grade you will learn that
>an animal does not need
>to be killed to be
>poached. Excuse me, I think
>I will go poach the
>old lady.


Ya... Not worth arguing with you. I've already posted what the STATE OF UTAH defines as poaching but since your resdfing comprehension is below that of a 3rd grader then I'll end our little back and forth discussion.
 
Hoss, I agree with your definition of poaching the problem is the state does not. The state thinks if you scare an animal you have poached it. No need to argue with me, we agree, its the state you are arguing with. I am just the messenger.
 
Tram, you know as well as everyone the dwr will not ticket a hunter for leaving a gut pile, bones, non edible meat. You have a bone to pick with the dwr because of past experiences with them. I know in your mind it is not poaching if anyone has a tag and someone else shoots it for them. You mentioned it before.
 

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