Utah Trail Camera Public Comment Hearing

Do you plan to attend and voice your thoughts?


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I don’t want to high jack the thread, but
Let’s get these two on the 2024 ballot. These 2 are straighter than a Percheron Stud in the mare barn, and they can lead the $25knuckleheads and work both sides of the aisle.

80CDCBD4-0950-4F3A-9341-FF2AB7FCAD2D.jpeg
 
Nobody told me to take down a picture.

Damn yall are desperate for no one to try and answer the questions.

What are yall afraid the answers will be?
 
Here’s everyone’s chance to voice their thoughts on the trail camera rules in Utah. March 10th is the day.

View attachment 67771
Unfortunately, I'll be working that morning... though I imagine people whose job it is to put out and check 500 cameras won't have anything else to do at 9am on a weekday in March... I hope some of you that do attend can reiterate the emails I am sending to keep the ban in place...
 
Unfortunately, I'll be working that morning... though I imagine people whose job it is to put out and check 500 cameras won't have anything else to do at 9am on a weekday in March... I hope some of you that do attend can reiterate the emails I am sending to keep the ban in place...


Cams gotta be set out on AI, so it's a tax deductible trip for some
 
Very often when I get in discussions with people that want something banned the best question is , "What is the problem?"

How they answer that question will very often tell you whether you are dealing with emotional problems, greed, an idiot, a liar, or a real problem.


So trail cameras, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

Well Tri

Do you run camera's?
 
Well Tri

Do you run camera's?


Where I hunt mule deer cameras are not allowed. So I do not run cameras there.

I hunt whitetail on 2 other places. On one I put some cameras out some years and some years I don't. On the other place I've never put a camera out. Just doesn't seem to be that important to me.
 
So, just so I understand.

The only way we beat back the commie, pinkos, from California, is to allow Doyle to run a few thousand cams?

Just trying to follow the logic here

So, if we just put on a billboard on1-15 down south,

"We support all Cams", those north bound Uhauls will flip around and head back to Frisco?

If the pro c guys are so fragile that not having them means they run out, fire up a fatty, and blast The Greatful Dead, then just maybe, they were shaky to start with

The increase in liberalism will go far beyond the trail camera debate. It takes time, but once it's established, it's like a run away freight train that is nearly impossible to stop and the Wasatch Valley is filling up awfully fast with it from its rapid growth in tech and the people that are being attracted to it. Work from home has allowed a lot of people to relocate to the mountain states as well.

The longer you ignore it, the worse it will be. Anyone living in a state that has had it happen to them would agree. My state used to be pretty level-headed at one time until recently. The nostalgia of southwestern art has attracted a lot of weirdos that have no idea how the real world works.

Public opinion is how you make changes, regardless of whether or not something is "enshrined" in an amendment to a state's Constitution. Just as conservative legislators can protect something, liberal legislators can take something away as well. Once you get groups of anti-hunters fired up about something, they make sure they are represented. But then again, I was called an idiot by a lawyer, which is like being called ugly by a frog.

How easy was it for a relatively small group of voices to get the use of trail cameras restricted? Not that they are anti-hunting, but they had a preference and personal bias. And that wasn't even a major legislative action.

Ever heard of "death by a thousand cuts"? But, if you feel UT is safe and immune from it all, I'm glad for you.

I've been ignoring your content for quite some time now for obvious reasons, but for this, I made an exception...
 
The increase in liberalism will go far beyond the trail camera debate. It takes time, but once it's established, it's like a run away freight train that is nearly impossible to stop and the Wasatch Valley is filling up awfully fast with it from its rapid growth in tech and the people that are being attracted to it. Work from home has allowed a lot of people to relocate to the mountain states as well.

The longer you ignore it, the worse it will be. Anyone living in a state that has had it happen to them would agree. My state used to be pretty level-headed at one time until recently. The nostalgia of southwestern art has attracted a lot of weirdos that have no idea how the real world works.

Public opinion is how you make changes, regardless of whether or not something is "enshrined" in an amendment to a state's Constitution. Just as conservative legislators can protect something, liberal legislators can take something away as well. Once you get groups of anti-hunters fired up about something, they make sure they are represented. But then again, I was called an idiot by a lawyer, which is like being called ugly by a frog.

How easy was it for a relatively small group of voices to get the use of trail cameras restricted? Not that they are anti-hunting, but they had a preference and personal bias. And that wasn't even a major legislative action.

Ever heard of "death by a thousand cuts"? But, if you feel UT is safe and immune from it all, I'm glad for you.

I've been ignoring your content for quite some time now for obvious reasons, but for this, I made an exception...
What do you mean by "relatively small group"?
It went before RAC's and other channels first.
 
What do you mean by "relatively small group"?
It went before RAC's and other channels first.
The number of people total commenting in favor for it, what representation as a whole does that represent in the hunting crowd? Likely a "relatively small group".

My guess is there are a lot of people who are indifferent or don't use them at all and have better things to do than to voice support in something they don't do anyway...
 
Where I hunt mule deer cameras are not allowed. So I do not run cameras there.

I hunt whitetail on 2 other places. On one I put some cameras out some years and some years I don't. On the other place I've never put a camera out. Just doesn't seem to be that important to me.
When you hunt feeders, cameras usually aren’t very important
 
I’ve thought about this issue since the bill was introduced. I’ve swung back and forth on which side im on. I have 12 cams and have them out year round. I hung my first camera in 2006, and I’ve used them ever since. I know cameras do work to some extent. Are they as effective as most want to believe? No. Do they give you an unfair advantage? No. But they do allow you to have a better idea of what’s going on in the places you hunt. In 16 years of use, I’ve killed 2 elk because of information I got from a camera that otherwise would have lived. That’s not much. But it is an effective tool to some degree.

When they passed the law last month banning them, I was pizzed, just like many others. Since then, I’ve grown to like the idea. And now that they are trying to reverse it, I’m not sure I can speak up in favor of doing so. I have many reasons, but the biggest is entitlement. When you hunt public land, it’s hard to find a spring that doesn’t have a camera on it. For some reason, people feel that if they have a camera on a spring, that’s their spot and you’re a low life bottom of the barrel leach if you decide to hang a camera next to theirs or hunt that same area. In their minds, placing a camera there first means it’s now their spot and you need to move along to a new area. I’ve literally had people tell me “I had my camera up there first this year! You can’t hunt there!”. I’ve also had some people upset I shot “their deer” that they had a hundred pictures of. Just because they had pics of him, in their mind he was already theirs and I had crossed some code of ethics line by shooting him before they got a chance to.

I think in the end I hope the current law stands. Not because of fairness to the animals or management of animals. But to try and manage the entitlement and feelings factor of an area and the animals in it.
 
1
I’ve thought about this issue since the bill was introduced. I’ve swung back and forth on which side im on. I have 12 cams and have them out year round. I hung my first camera in 2006, and I’ve used them ever since. I know cameras do work to some extent. Are they as effective as most want to believe? No. Do they give you an unfair advantage? No. But they do allow you to have a better idea of what’s going on in the places you hunt. In 16 years of use, I’ve killed 2 elk because of information I got from a camera that otherwise would have lived. That’s not much. But it is an effective tool to some degree.

When they passed the law last month banning them, I was pizzed, just like many others. Since then, I’ve grown to like the idea. And now that they are trying to reverse it, I’m not sure I can speak up in favor of doing so. I have many reasons, but the biggest is entitlement. When you hunt public land, it’s hard to find a spring that doesn’t have a camera on it. For some reason, people feel that if they have a camera on a spring, that’s their spot and you’re a low life bottom of the barrel leach if you decide to hang a camera next to theirs or hunt that same area. In their minds, placing a camera there first means it’s now their spot and you need to move along to a new area. I’ve literally had people tell me “I had my camera up there first this year! You can’t hunt there!”. I’ve also had some people upset I shot “their deer” that they had a hundred pictures of. Just because they had pics of him, in their mind he was already theirs and I had crossed some code of ethics line by shooting him before they got a chance to.

I think in the end I hope the current law stands. Not because of fairness to the animals or management of animals. But to try and manage the entitlement and feelings factor of an area and the animals in it.
I've found myself in a similar situation, I've swung back and forth as well, ultimately I feel it's a step in the right direction. Also feel it could help the larger bucks and bulls not be as pressured as a lot of time those animals are just flat out harder to find especially in the day light. Camera's give the advantage of scouting and tracking 24 hours a day. If people don't know a big buck is in the area there will likely be less pressure put on them.

I also get what you are saying about the entitlement crowd.
 
The place that doesn't allow cameras doesn't allow feeders either.
An expert hunter such as yourself should know muleys don’t really love corn feeders that much. Pretty ineffective actually.

Whitetails on the other hand absolutely love them. Which still makes my comment relative ?I do appreciate that you didn’t deny hunting over feeders though. That’s step one to realizing you are the problem. Keep it up!
 
An expert hunter such as yourself should know muleys don’t really love corn feeders that much. Pretty ineffective actually.

Whitetails on the other hand absolutely love them. Which still makes my comment relative ?I do appreciate that you didn’t deny hunting over feeders though. That’s step one to realizing you are the problem. Keep it up!
Relevant to what? You're just trying to hijack a thread by throwing crap at a wall.

Go back to the top and see what the thread is about. Then see how useless you are on this thread.
 
Relevant to what? You're just trying to hijack a thread by throwing crap at a wall.

Go back to the top and see what the thread is about. Then see how useless you are on this thread.
Says the one that's always at odds with everyone else on MM.
 
Relevant to what? You're just trying to hijack a thread by throwing crap at a wall.

Go back to the top and see what the thread is about. Then see how useless you are on this thread.
It’s about trail cameras and my post is in response to you saying you don’t need them. And that is very much a true statement when you hunt over a dam corn pile. I’m useless? You’re as useless as **** on a boat pig. Being from Texas and acting like you have any idea what this topic is about, is hysterical. And that putting it nicely
 
I've answered questions. You boy's haven't.

So what is your problem with a camera. Be honest elkslayer.
 
It’s about trail cameras and my post is in response to you saying you don’t need them. And that is very much a true statement when you hunt over a dam corn pile. I’m useless? You’re as useless as **** on a boat pig. Being from Texas and acting like you have any idea what this topic is about, is hysterical. And that putting it nicely


No it isn't boy. Your post is about me. You are frustrated because you can't answer one straight question. So your only option is to hijack an entire thread and talk about me.

You're whooped.
 
Why do you have to call people boy? Talking down to people makes you sound worse than you really are, that's saying something too.
 
Tristate apparently you don’t spend much time up here in utah. If you did you wouldn’t even have to ask that question.
 
No it isn't boy. Your post is about me. You are frustrated because you can't answer one straight question. So your only option is to hijack an entire thread and talk about me.

You're whooped.
You go around calling people "boy" when you are literally 5'6 235#. You are an embarrassment to the rest of the Texans on this forum, including me.
 
I've answered questions. You boy's haven't.

So what is your problem with a camera. Be honest elkslayer.

let me answer your question I've already said this before in other post and i'm gladley going to say it again.
because i do know the DWR reads these.

Trail cameras do a lot for hunters I know what they do personally.

#1 they timestamp let me know what time the animal is coming in.

#2 They also let me know if there is a big buck or bull on camera.

#3 They let me know which trail they use so i can play the wind when I'm walking into to the wallow or water source so i don't blow the animals out of the area.

#4 It also let's me know what area I'm going to hunt opening morning with no pre scouting at all. because I already know what animals are in there.

#5 it also lets me know if the Entitlement /greedy hunters have been in there. you know the ones that have argued with me multiple times saying I was here first.
The ones that leave there cameras up year round and their flipping tree stands up year round.

I might not have harvested over my cameras but i have harvested the animals in the same drainage or area that i have them placed.
I would of never hunted those areas if there was nothing on my cameras.
DO YOU KNOW WHY (IT Targets THEM)

The hunters that run them know what I'm talking about.

The ones that disagree make up some poor excuse they are talking our rights away our there is no scientific proof.

well we have all watched 100's of videos showing targeting and aid and take of those animals with the use of trail cameras.

we don't need scientific proof it's on youtube and Instagram.

The only problem I see with people having a problem with having a season date, is the ones that can't hunt without trail cameras.
 
Tri agrees with trail cams just like he agrees with football teams finding his deer for him.

DD93CA57-62CB-41A2-8E2A-E36528050AFB_1_101_o.jpeg
 
let me answer your question I've already said this before in other post and i'm gladley going to say it again.
because i do know the DWR reads these.

Trail cameras do a lot for hunters I know what they do personally.

#1 they timestamp let me know what time the animal is coming in.

#2 They also let me know if there is a big buck or bull on camera.

#3 They let me know which trail they use so i can play the wind when I'm walking into to the wallow or water source so i don't blow the animals out of the area.

#4 It also let's me know what area I'm going to hunt opening morning with no pre scouting at all. because I already know what animals are in there.

#5 it also lets me know if the Entitlement /greedy hunters have been in there. you know the ones that have argued with me multiple times saying I was here first.
The ones that leave there cameras up year round and their flipping tree stands up year round.

I might not have harvested over my cameras but i have harvested the animals in the same drainage or area that i have them placed.
I would of never hunted those areas if there was nothing on my cameras.
DO YOU KNOW WHY (IT Targets THEM)

The hunters that run them know what I'm talking about.

The ones that disagree make up some poor excuse they are talking our rights away our there is no scientific proof.

well we have all watched 100's of videos showing targeting and aid and take of those animals with the use of trail cameras.

we don't need scientific proof it's on youtube and Instagram.

The only problem I see with people having a problem with having a season date, is the ones that can't hunt without trail cameras.

Scientific proof?
 
let me answer your question I've already said this before in other post and i'm gladley going to say it again.
because i do know the DWR reads these.

Trail cameras do a lot for hunters I know what they do personally.

#1 they timestamp let me know what time the animal is coming in.

#2 They also let me know if there is a big buck or bull on camera.

#3 They let me know which trail they use so i can play the wind when I'm walking into to the wallow or water source so i don't blow the animals out of the area.

#4 It also let's me know what area I'm going to hunt opening morning with no pre scouting at all. because I already know what animals are in there.

#5 it also lets me know if the Entitlement /greedy hunters have been in there. you know the ones that have argued with me multiple times saying I was here first.
The ones that leave there cameras up year round and their flipping tree stands up year round.

I might not have harvested over my cameras but i have harvested the animals in the same drainage or area that i have them placed.
I would of never hunted those areas if there was nothing on my cameras.
DO YOU KNOW WHY (IT Targets THEM)

The hunters that run them know what I'm talking about.

The ones that disagree make up some poor excuse they are talking our rights away our there is no scientific proof.

well we have all watched 100's of videos showing targeting and aid and take of those animals with the use of trail cameras.

we don't need scientific proof it's on youtube and Instagram.

The only problem I see with people having a problem with having a season date, is the ones that can't hunt without trail cameras.
All that blah blah blah and like all little boys you still never stated what YOUR PROBLEM IS.


Look at you bunch of kids. Look at all the time you spend looking up my pictures and trying to figure out all you can about me BUT NEVER HAVING THE BALLS TO ANSWER A QUESTION.

I think yall are scared the rest of the world will see you have childish motivations and no desire to actually make deer herds any better.
 
Tri, elkslayer answered the question pretty damm good so why can’t you understand it? I don’t care what you’ve done in the past. It’s none of my business. Please have some common sens. By the way, that’s a good buck you got.
 
Tri, elkslayer answered the question pretty damm good so why can’t you understand it? I don’t care what you’ve done in the past. It’s none of my business. Please have some common sens. By the way, that’s a good buck you got.
Tri, elkslayer answered the question pretty damm good so why can’t you understand it? I don’t care what you’ve done in the past. It’s none of my business. Please have some common sens. By the way, that’s a good buck you got.


Actually he didn't. He says all the things he can do with trail cameras but I can't even tell if he is for or against them.
 
Well I’m against them myself. I have 15 of them and used them a lot. it has gotten way out of hand, do you want to buy some cameras cheap. Maybe I’ll take them to my property in Texas and put them up there.
 
I will be using some up here in utah on my land to catch trespassers. Damm fence cutters
 
Well I’m against them myself. I have 15 of them and used them a lot. it has gotten way out of hand, do you want to buy some cameras cheap. Maybe I’ll take them to my property in Texas and put them up there.


See Horsecorn, you are talking pretty clearly. Could you elaborate on "gotten way out of hand"?
 
Just like I said before. i spend some time in the bookcliffs and you can’t find water that doesn’t have several cameras on them. Guys are checking them regular so that means several guys are walking in on the water and changing the habits of the wildlife.. that’s not good when they get pressure all year long. Give them a break from all us hunters for a few months. My father is a Ute tribal member and on the Rez. None of this stuff is going on. It’s way better to give them a break for a while.. it’s just unethical through my eyes. But that’s just me
 
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Okay so you believe people gathering their pictures from the cameras are keeping animals away from water they need. Correct me if I didn't word that correctly.

Has anyone done any type of study that would support or not support that hypothesis?
 
Just like I said before. i spend some time in the bookcliffs and you can’t find water that doesn’t have several cameras on them. Guys are checking them regular so that means several guys are walking in on the water and changing the habits of the wildlife.. that’s not good when they get pressure all year long. Give them a break from all us hunters for a few months. My father is a Ute tribal member and on the Rez. None of this stuff is going on. It’s way better to give them a break for a while.. it’s just not ethical through my eyes. But that’s just me

If UT wants to give them a break, UT will end their relentless pursuit on the cow elk population they've been doing since 2012...
 
Yes Arizonas biologists did a study on them and they say it changes there habits and not for the better. You can google it and read about it. But I don’t need their study to confirm that it’s just common sense and from observation.
 
Arizona says that cameras violate the fair chase doctrine, which pays respect to the traditions of hunting by emphasizing the development of a persons skills rather than relying on technologies that overwhelm the wildlife for an easy kill. Also not fair to guys with permits trying to hunt and others without permits coming and screwing up their hunt checking cameras. There are plenty more reasons, do you want me to continue.
 
Arizona says that cameras violate the fair chase doctrine, which pays respect to the traditions of hunting by emphasizing the development of a persons skills rather than relying on technologies that overwhelm the wildlife for an easy kill. Also not fair to guys with permits trying to hunt and others without permits coming and screwing up their hunt checking cameras. There are plenty more reasons, do you want me to continue.
Well put.
 
If UT wants to give them a break, UT will end their relentless pursuit on the cow elk population they've been doing since 2012...
Elk are part of the problem with the deer number's especially during this drought. I agree they need to not hunt the cow elk until the end of January but I for one am glad they are doing something about the number of elk on some of these units.
 
Okay so you believe people gathering their pictures from the cameras are keeping animals away from water they need. Correct me if I didn't word that correctly.

Has anyone done any type of study that would support or not support that hypothesis?
It’s amazing how chirpy you are on topics that are completely irrelevant to your type of “hunting” or even the states in which you reside or hunt in. You should change your name from “tristate” to “tripod”. That represents you as a whole (and that’s a lot of representation) much more appropriately.
 
Come on now. Tristate is probably a good man. He just doesn’t understand how us utards have taken this way overboard And screwed it all up. Especially the big three.
 
Elk are part of the problem with the deer number's especially during this drought. I agree they need to not hunt the cow elk until the end of January but I for one am glad they are doing something about the number of elk on some of these units.

You increase the number of tags, you don't dog them to exhaustion. Every other western state understands that...
 
Are you really that slow there tri you ask the question
All that blah blah blah and like all little boys you still never stated what YOUR PROBLEM IS.


Look at you bunch of kids. Look at all the time you spend looking up my pictures and trying to figure out all you can about me BUT NEVER HAVING THE BALLS TO ANSWER A QUESTION.

I think yall are scared the rest of the world will see you have childish motivations and no desire to actually make deer herds any bette

Very often when I get in discussions with people that want something banned the best question is , "What is the problem?"

How they answer that question will very often tell you whether you are dealing with emotional problems, greed, an idiot, a liar, or a real problem.


So trail cameras, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
I told you what the problem is with trail cameras, isn't that what you ask for? but you clearly fall under your own comment greed and idiot.

I gave you the real problem that's what you ask for, you didn't ask for if i was for or against the season dates.

So let me ask you what your thoughts and are you for the season dates or against?
 
There should be no shooting cows after nov. 15

^^^ or, you have 1 cow hunt only that last 5 days in early Dec. That's it. No more 2 week long cow hunts. No more 2 month long cow hunts. No cow hunts in early Oct during the waning days of the rut.

But, this is a trail camera debate thread, so...
 
Are you really that slow there tri you ask the question



I told you what the problem is with trail cameras, isn't that what you ask for? but you clearly fall under your own comment greed and idiot.

I gave you the real problem that's what you ask for, you didn't ask for if i was for or against the season dates.

So let me ask you what your thoughts and are you for the season dates or against?
You never once said what YOUR PROBLEM is. You told me what trail cams can do for you.
 
You never once said what YOUR PROBLEM is. You told me what trail cams can do for you.
Tri you are slow it's okay I get it you wrote this correct?

Very often when I get in discussions with people that want something banned the best question is , "What is the problem?:unsure: you never asked what my problem was.

It's not fair chase at all.
 
All that blah blah blah and like all little boys you still never stated what YOUR PROBLEM IS.


Look at you bunch of kids. Look at all the time you spend looking up my pictures and trying to figure out all you can about me BUT NEVER HAVING THE BALLS TO ANSWER A QUESTION.

I think yall are scared the rest of the world will see you have childish motivations and no desire to actually make deer herds any better.


Wow. Looks like I actually did ask what "your" problem is.
 
So if someone else wants to hunt with a camera elk slayer and you don't think it's fair chase, why do you need to stop them from hunting fair chase by their definition?
 
That's not a deflection and it's pretty damn specific.
Elkslayer asked you this "So let me ask you what your thoughts and are you for the season dates or against?" and you didn't answer and instead continued your usual drivel. That's deflection, sport.
 
Wow. Looks like I actually did ask what "your" problem is.
Very often when I get in discussions with people that want something banned the best question is , "What is the problem?"

How they answer that question will very often tell you whether you are dealing with emotional problems, greed, an idiot, a liar, or a real problem.


So trail cameras, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
This was your first post yeah your slow….
 
This thread and Banter has truly hit a point of “inflection” similar to Utah’s current Mule Deer population. Let’s see where goes from here.
And as my Grandma always says “Don’t let One sour LEmON ruin the whole illegal bait pile of Apples”
~carry on~
 
Elkslayer asked you this "So let me ask you what your thoughts and are you for the season dates or against?" and you didn't answer and instead continued your usual drivel. That's deflection, sport.
Actually, no. That's me ignoring kids that are trying to hijack a thread. Just like elkslayer is trying to do after stepping on his own balls.

If you want to talk season dates go start another thread.

Look at how emotionally attached yall are to stopping other people from using a device. It really is childish.

So far horsecorn is the only person behaving like a grown up out of the anti-camera group.
 
Actually, no. That's me ignoring kids that are trying to hijack a thread. Just like elkslayer is trying to do after stepping on his own balls.

If you want to talk season dates go start another thread.

Look at how emotionally attached yall are to stopping other people from using a device. It really is childish.

So far horsecorn is the only person behaving like a grown up out of the anti-camera group.
Says the child.
 
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