Utah Weapon rule?

DMCHUNTER · Aug 10, 2009

I am a NR that hunts alone and was looking at the regs and noticed that it says I cannot have any weapons in my camp because it is an archery season. I have no issue what so ever with no weapons while hunting. That makes total sense. But not even allowing me to have something in my camp. Seems a bit off.

Well I follow the rules so no pistol on this trip.

utah450 · Aug 10, 2009

If you have a concealed carry permit, you would be okay.

DMCHUNTER · Aug 10, 2009

I would love to have one but I am from Ca. If your not law enforcment or a crimanal( legislator) you don't get one.

grizzly · Aug 10, 2009

A new law went into effect a few months ago that says a person can carry a handgun in their vehicle, you may want to see if you can get by under that law.

Or just get your Utah CFP.

Grizzly

apollosmith · Aug 10, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-09 AT 03:21PM (MST)[p]This is a big issue with Utah state law, because you have DWR *RULES* that directly conflict with Utah laws.

In Utah, assuming you can legally own them (you're not a felon, etc.) firearms are ALWAYS legal in your domicile/house, and Utah law explicitly expands that to mean a tent, camp trailer, etc. They are also legal in/on your vehicle (including four wheelers, bikes, etc.). And open carrying a firearm is perfectly legal in Utah as long as the firearm is unloaded (empty chamber/full magazine for autos or no bullet under the hammer OR in the next cylinder for revolvers). If you have a permit, you can open carry a fully loaded firearm.

But you also have the DWR *RULE* that says you can't carry a firearm or have one even in your vehicle or camp while hunting unless you have a permit.

So which law takes priority? I'd argue that the laws clearly take precedence - in fact, the DWR legally can't make ANY firearms rules according to state law (check Utah's Uniform Firearms laws), but they do anyway. But considering the knowledge most DWR folks have on gun laws, I'd be very careful if you don't have a permit.

As a California (or any other state) resident, you can get a Utah permit. It takes several months, but the Utah permit is the best one to get because it is the most widely recognized in the country.

D13er · Aug 10, 2009

>I would love to have one
>but I am from Ca.
> If your not law
>enforcment or a crimanal( legislator)
>you don't get one.

you live in the wrong county then DMC.....

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

Stubaby · Aug 10, 2009

I always have a gun with me because I am always "hunting" for Coyotes. I even pack my .22-250 on my scouting trips. They can't tell you you can't hunt coyotes year round.

kilowatt · Aug 10, 2009

Rub it in plick......lol

apollosmith · Aug 10, 2009

Yes they can. Check the regulations.

Page 40 - If there's a bull elk, buck pronghorn, moose, bison, bighorn sheep or Rocky Mountain goat hunt you can't carry a firearm in the area without a CFP EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT HUNTING!

You also can't carry a firearm or even have one in your vehicle or camp if you have an archery or muzzleloader permit.

Or so they say. I think state laws trump DWR rules, but I doubt a DWR officer will think so.

stinkystomper · Aug 10, 2009

So what happens if you drive up a week before your LE rifle elk hunt and have a 50BMG with anti tank rounds, a 338 lapua, a full auto p-90 with 1000 rounds, a shotgun, an FN 5-7 pistol, a 7mm mag, a 338-378 wby mag and a 300 ultra mag. If I get in utah a week before my hunt with my small arsenal it will be bow season for LE elk. What then? cuz I'm coming!

apollosmith · Aug 10, 2009

You might also check out http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/getCodeSection?code=76-10-504 which says that you can keep and conceal a pistol with a barrel length of 4" during hunting even if you don't have a permit.

Of course the DWR rule also contradicts this state law.

The short of it is that DWR's rules clearly violate and contradict state law. The legislature has not granted them permission to regulate firearms. With that said, if you follow state law and violate a DWR rule, you'd better have deep pockets to pay for a lawyer to clear you.

MsDestiny · Aug 10, 2009

Hey Stinky,

How you going to carry all that crap and still shoot a bow ? So... when your out Hunting on the Dutton.. all those guns are going to be left in your tent or trailer or Truck ? Your going to leave 12K worth of equipment alone all by itself in the Dutton ?

KA CHING.... LOL

Destiny

Longbow6360 · Aug 10, 2009

Stinkystomper, you have a p-90? (Project 90 from FN.) I was assigned one of those bullpup POSs at one time. No thanks. Sure can pack a lot of those tiny rounds though. The rest of the guns you have are fun as hell to shoot. Got to love that Lapua!!!

"My sickle has a boattail"
"hidden soles leave .308 holes"

deadibob · Aug 10, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-09 AT 07:19PM (MST)[p]If you have a class 3 f/a, you can't take that across state lines without a permit from the ATF anyway.

What do you mean by anti-tank rounds for your 50? If they are incendiaries (bluetip), API, APIT or tracers you can't shoot them on public land either. The only rounds you can shoot on public land that might be considered anti-tank are AP(blacktip) tungsten core.

Longbow6360 · Aug 10, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-09 AT 08:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-09 AT 08:35?PM (MST)

API, incendiaries, APIT and tracers are ONLY illegal in California. I shoot them at the old Wendover NV airforce base and out at Promitory Point all the time. My Barret M82 loves the APIT rounds.
SO....which one of these rounds AREN'T anti-tank? I've blown the F*** out of tanks with each one of these. Don't come on here popin' off lest you know what your sayin'. My class 3 F/A permit is good no matter where I go in the US as long as I have the papers for each gun with me, (except DC).
(Side note) Ask the camel in Sudan what a APIT can do from NH90 helicopter at one mile-plus.

"My sickle has a boattail"
"hidden soles leave .308 holes"

deadibob · Aug 10, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-09 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]Longbow read my post again. I never said API's etc. aren't anti-tank rounds. I said you can't shoot them on public land legally. Federal law prohibits it. Tracers and incendiaries are illegal on blm and forest land. I own a 50 and do shoot and own incendiaries but not on public land.

This next paragraph explains what happens if you transport a legally owned class 3 machinegun across statelines whether you have your papers or not.

Unlike conventional firearms, each change of possession or ownership of a NFA item (silencer, machine gun, short barreled shotgun or rifle, etc.) must be approved in advance by BATF. This includes not only the sale of such a weapon, but also the act of giving or loaning it to another person. Failure to comply can result in a $250,000 fine, 10 years in prison, or both. Silencers may be transported interstate by the registered owner but interstate transport of machine guns, short barreled rifles or short barreled shotguns will require the owner to file a form 5320.20 "Application to transport interstate or temporarily export certain NFA Firearms" PRIOR to transporting the weapon across state lines. Contact your local BATF office if you need further information. You can find the forms here: http://www.titleii.com/

I have been in the gun business for 20 years, I have my ffl. I am currently producing a video on the bmg. I am a member of FCSA and know WTF I'm talking about. Do your research YOU CANNOT TRANSPORT A CLASS 3 MACHINEGUN ACROSS STATE LINES WITHOUT ATF APPROVAL.

deadibob · Aug 10, 2009

ATF Form 20 - 5320.20 Application to Transport NFA Firearms
The ATF required prior authorization after a written request to transport any destructive device, machine gun, short-barreled riffle, or short-barreled shotgun under Section 922(a)(4), Title 18 U.S.C. It is not necessary to use this form as a letter containing all the same information may be submitted in duplicate. Two copies of the Form 20 or letter should be addressed to:
BATFE
Attention: NFA Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405
Once the ATF approves the transportation, they will return a Form 20 to the registered owner. The approval authorizes the registered owner to transport the designated firearm(s) only during the time period specified in item 3 on the form. THE AUTHORIZATION DOES NOT CARRY OR IMPORT RELIEF FROM ANY STATUTORY OR REGULATORY PROVISIONS RELATING TO FIREARMS OTHER THAN 27 CFR 478.28.

If a contract or common carrier is used to transport the firearm(s) a copy of ATF Form 5320.20 shall be furnished to the carrier and shall be in the possession of the carrier for the duration of the transportation. This will meet the requirements of sections 922(e) and (f) of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Here it is again longbow. So don't you come on here poppin' off lest you know what you're saying. This is common knowledge or should be to anyone with an NFA. Yes your gun must always be accompanied by your SOT paperwork and stamp but that don't get you across state lines.

Feel free to enlighten me.

Longbow6360 · Aug 10, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-09 AT 11:31PM (MST)[p]DeadiBob, I tried to PM you but you've deactivated your PM.

Sorry for ruffling your feathers there Deadibob. I'm not in the gun business, I don't have a FFL, I'm not a member of FCSA and apearantly to you, I don't know what the f*** I'm talking about. I do know this, I've shot way more guns than most people on this board could ever hope to shoot. I've taught more shooters how to shoot long range than I can count. I've been sent by Uncle sam to more countries, doing things that I hope GOD forgives me for so you and everybody else can sit back and slurp up the good life. I know what it's like to ##### and piss for a week in the same hole I'm hiding in until somebody grows some balls and flies in to pull me and my gunny out to safety. I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I have transported my very own M16 (which I carried for 10 years), my HK416 and my fully-auto 9mm UZI across many state lines and never had a problem. I have permits for all them. I have Curic and Relic, short bbl shotgun and short bbl rifle and supressor permits as well. I am no stranger to the full-auto gun game.

I've been quite clandestine about my past and I'm going to keep it that way. I'm done.

"hidden soles leave .308 holes"

deadibob · Aug 10, 2009

longbow. I never disabled my pm's, infact I was going to pm you. All your service in the military is great but that's not the subject here.

The point being: You as much as said that I didn't know what I was talking about. Even after I posted the ATF regs you still don't acknowledge that I was infact right. Just because you got away with something for 10 years doesn't make it legal, it just makes you lucky. The fact is if you have a class 3 F/A you must get a permit to transport across state lines. If you were active military it wouldn't be a papered SOT, but we are talking about civilian owned tax-stamped machine guns. If you are no stranger to the full-auto game as you claim, you already know this.

I know it's easy for us to get sideways on the internet because it's hard to hear the tone of a conversation when you're reading it, so don't get offended.

I don't know what a APIT does to a camel from a mile but I do know what a 50bmg tracer does to a bison's head at 100 yards, because I have it on video. It looks like Star Wars, especially in slow motion. Of course it was a non-game (farmed) bison on private land, but that's the only way it could legally be done. I have 4 50bmg bison kills on video and a whole lot of other fun stuff, including things that will never make the final cut because the anti-gunners would try and use it against us to outlaw 50's. I wish it wasn't that way because there are some cool things I have on video that you can do with blue tips.

grizzly · Aug 11, 2009

deadibob, I'm calling bullcrap on your claim to have video of a bison being shot in the head with a bluetip.

Please prove me wrong and post the video, or email it to me, and I will gladly admit I was wrong and you were right.

Respectfully,

Grizzly

deadibob · Aug 11, 2009

Grizzly, You would be right to call bullcrap on shooting a bison with a bluetip. I never said bluetip, I said tracer which is a redtip. I will not email or post the clip, it will be out when the video is out. If that doesn't satisfy you, pm me and we can make arrangements for you to come by the shop and I'll show you the clip. (my pm is now working)

I would have shot the bison in the head with a bluetip if it wasn't for the fact we were making groceries out of the bison. Also, I think that would have been a little too extreme for most folks. I also have footage of the world nationals long range 50 championships at Raton N.M., and interviews of some of the best longrange shooters in the world (several world record holders).

My favorite footage is jackrabbits in the snow with 50bmg tracers. I also have my wife shooting her pronghorn on video but that was with expanding (legal) projectiles.

D13er · Aug 11, 2009

screw grizz....I want to come by your shop and see the vids...sounds like good entertainment...where do I head to ???

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

deadibob · Aug 11, 2009

Fillmore

Longbow6360 · Aug 11, 2009

Accually Deadibob, all disagreements aside, I'd be interested in seeing the 50cal shoot in Raton.

"My sickle has a boattail"
"hidden soles leave .308 holes"