Vortex kaibab disappointment

[highsierra]

I recently purchased a pair of new Vortex Kaibab 15x. At the dealer I was able to take them outside and use them to glass the surrounding terrain. I was impressed when I first looked through them. They appeared bright, clear, and had a good "feel"....so I bit the bullet and bought 'em.

I'm sure this is not a unique story...so far,right?

So the real reason I'm sharing here about this purchase is that even though I was excited for this aquisition, things changed quickly. Two days ago I decided I couldn't wait any longer and just had to get out into my hunting area and do some pre-scouting. I went to one of my high perches that allows viewing of a opposite canyon wall/ridge approx 500 yds distant across a river. Well, after several hours of glassing I did manage to turn up some deer...and I gotta say I probably wouldn't have seen em without using the 15x's. The problem was that they really could only be viewed in sharp focus when they we more or less centered in the field of view. Once they moved to the side, if I didn't reposition my optics, or refocus, they became slightly blurry. As I analyzed this issue by paying more close attention to the focus of the ENTIRE field of view it became apparent to me that about 1/4 of the radius in the field of view was not in sharp focus. Obviously, this is problematic.

After returning home I felt pretty dejected. I'm not a wealthy guy and was upset that I had made such a big $$$ purchase that I was now not happy with. I contacted the dealer and they told me that I could exchange my Kaibab's and that they had one other pair in stock. So, I decided to hit the road and drive the 2 1/2 hours to the dealer to make the exchange. When I arrived the dealer presented me with the new pair and asked me to inspect them. I did....but much to my surprise they were even worse! I tested them by first focusing them on a fairly large bush about 250 yds distant. After focusing I would then reposition the bush off center and reevaluate. When looking at the leaves you could easily see the focus degrade more and more as the position was shifted further from center to the point where they blurred almost completely at the edges.

In the end I decided that the Kaibab 15x just wasn't for me. The dealer refunded my money and I will continue to save up for a pair of Swarovski 15x's....which I performed the same test with and saw no loss of focus across the entire field of view. Sorry for the lengthy post but I just hope that by doing so I may save a fellow hunter from the same heart ache I experienced.

Sorry Vortex, I so wanted this to work out....but it just wasn't meant to be....

-HS

 

[thebuckstopshere518]

I would have bypassed the dealer and called vortex themselves. I havent looked through the kaibabs yet but I have the viper 15x50s and they are crisp from side to side. How bad was the wind and the heat waves?

 

[highsierra]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-12 AT 05:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-12 AT 04:43?PM (MST)

TBSH 518, the problem that I described was first noticed when no heat waves or wind was present. It's definitely a focus issue because you could correct the out of focus portion of the field of view by refocusing...but that would un-focus the center of the field of view. I did contact Vortex and they were great...but the dealer offered to swap them out I felt that this was my best option since they were so new. When I viewed the pair that the dealer had in stock the exact same clarity issue existed. The dealer, although he refused to look through them (that's a whole nother story...) said that it is normal for some distortion along the edges to exist. For the money these things cost I respectfully disagreed with him that the amount of the field of view where the focus was degraded was "normal". When scanning long distance for blacktails here on the west coast or picking apart a cactus covered hillside for coues deer in AZ I need a pair of binos that are clear across the majority, if not all, of the field of view. After all when you first pick up a piece of antler, a flick of the tail, or just a small patch of hair, it's not always in the dead center portion of your field of view. The chances for two pairs of this model having the same exact problem seems to indicate to me that this is most likely representative of the quality one can expect when purchasing Kaibabs. Sure, it may be possible that I was just unlucky and had my hands on the only two pairs of Kaibabs that are compromised in this manner out there...and if I just sent them into Vortex the would return them to me in perfect condition. I just am not willing to bet on that.

-HS

 

[257Tony]

I've spent quite a bit of time with the SLC's in 15x, and they do have a larger sweet spot than the Kabiabs, but, they still don't have a HUGE sweet spot. Almost all binos suffer from some edge distortion to one degree or another. The only bino I have used that has a nearly 100% sweet spot are the Swarovision EL's with the "field flattener" lenses.

 

[swivelhead]

>I've spent quite a bit of
>time with the SLC's in
>15x, and they do have
>a larger sweet spot than
>the Kabiabs, but, they still
>don't have a HUGE sweet
>spot. Almost all binos suffer
>from some edge distortion to
>one degree or another. The
>only bino I have used
>that has a nearly 100%
>sweet spot are the Swarovision
>EL's with the "field flattener"
>lenses.
>
>
>

X2
A good way to test the size of the "sweet spot" is to look at a star. Focus the star at the center of the field, move the star to the edge of the field. The light will diffuse when the focus is not correct. Fairly easy to "test" the size of the sweet spot of any optic.
Kaibabs are good, just not the best.

 

[coues52]

check out the minox 15x ED...bought mine from Cameraland about 600ish...better than most of the mid-price models...but the swaro,s are great~Danny

 

[alaska_bou]

I was not impressed with the kaibabs either. Fuzzy FOV and a poor focus adjustment IMO. Virtually all zeiss spotting scopes have this same issue with edge to edge sharpness as well. Just a few weeks ago I bought a new pair of the 15x56 SLC's and the interpupillary distance is just a bit too wide for my eyes, as are every other pair of 56mm binos. I will probably resell these as I will have to go down to a 50mm objective to fit my eyes.

Optically, the swaro 15x56 cannot be beat if they fit your eyes. Anyone interested in my new pair send me a PM or email.

 

[Bill_in_MI]

My predator eyes are too close for the Swaro 15's. I have not noticed this small of a sweet spot on my Kaibabs. So far so good.

Bill

 

[BPKHunter]

I have had the 15x SLC's for 7 seasons now and put at least a 100 hours a year behind them. I can't complain at all except they don't make too many backpack trips. I understand them not fitting someone's "predator eye's(good one)! I have too smash them as close as they get, including making sure the eye cover rings are offset to each other.

You definetely should not have any issues spotting deer at 500 yards. I easily find deer in thick brush to a mile and in the open to 3 miles. Elk to 5. Best thing about the 15x's is they are so much less affected by atmospheric conditions that my 20x-60x spotter.

Good deals come up on these SLC's ~$1500 on here and with Swaro's excellent care of customers you should consider them. Again, they are an added tool to standard carry bino's, not a replacement, but I believe NO 10x bino can do what they do..None.

 

[Timberbuck]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-12 AT 02:31PM (MST)[p]I can see your disappointment.

An optic in the price level of the Kiabab should have a sharp "sweet spot" of at least 75% of its FOV.

When the sweet spot shrinks to around the 50% level it causes problems.

Its important to note that very few optics have perfectly sharp edge to edge views. Its not a problem when the optic has a large sweet spot. Perfectly sharp and flat FOV's from edge to edge are not needed IMO.

My Minox 15x58 ED does not suffer from the small sweet spot you describe in the Kiababs. They are discontinued but pop up for sale from time to time. Minox still offers a 13x56 and 15x56 in the BL series. Optically the 15x56 is just behind the discontinued 15x58 ED. I have seen rave reviews on the 13x56. You could try one from cameraland and if not happy Doug would take care of you.

Your other option is to pick up a used SLC NEU.

 

[azhuntography]

Highsierra how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

Sounds like the problem your describing with your Kaibabs was due to field curvature. The older the eye's the worse it can be. A good way to test for curvature is to see if you can get sharp focus at the edges by refocusing. If refocusing gives you a sharp edge then field curvature is more then likely the problem but since you don't have the Kaibabs anymore you won't be able to test this out.

Curvature can vary greatly depending on the person. Some people are very sensitive to field curvature while others aren't generally the older a person gets the more curvature will bother them. If it was indeed field curvature and not a flaw in the binos themselves then this would be valuable information to those who are sensitive to curvature when considering buying the Kaibabs.

 

[mtmuleys]

>I recently purchased a pair of
>new Vortex Kaibab 15x.
>At the dealer I was
>able to take them outside
>and use them to glass
>the surrounding terrain. I was
>impressed when I first looked
>through them. They appeared
>bright, clear, and had a
>good "feel"....so I bit the
>bullet and bought 'em.
>
>I'm sure this is not a
>unique story...so far,right?
>
>So the real reason I'm sharing
>here about this purchase is
>that even though I was
>excited for this aquisition, things
>changed quickly. Two days
>ago I decided I couldn't
>wait any longer and just
>had to get out into
>my hunting area and do
>some pre-scouting. I went
>to one of my high
>perches that allows viewing of
>a opposite canyon wall/ridge approx
>500 yds distant across a
>river. Well, after several
>hours of glassing I did
>manage to turn up some
>deer...and I gotta say I
>probably wouldn't have seen em
>without using the 15x's.
>The problem was that they
>really could only be viewed
>in sharp focus when they
>we more or less centered
>in the field of view.
> Once they moved to
>the side, if I
>didn't reposition my optics, or
>refocus, they became slightly blurry.
> As I analyzed this
>issue by paying more close
>attention to the focus of
>the ENTIRE field of view
>it became apparent to me
>that about 1/4 of the
>radius in the field of
>view was not in sharp
>focus. Obviously, this is
>problematic.
>
>After returning home I felt pretty
>dejected. I'm not a
>wealthy guy and was upset
>that I had made such
>a big $$$ purchase that
>I was now not happy
>with. I contacted the
>dealer and they told me
>that I could exchange my
>Kaibab's and that they had
>one other pair in stock.
> So, I decided to
>hit the road and drive
>the 2 1/2 hours to
>the dealer to make the
>exchange. When I arrived
>the dealer presented me with
>the new pair and asked
>me to inspect them.
>I did....but much to my
>surprise they were even worse!
> I tested them by
>first focusing them on a
>fairly large bush about 250
>yds distant. After focusing
>I would then reposition the
>bush off center and reevaluate.
> When looking at the
>leaves you could easily see
>the focus degrade more and
>more as the position was
>shifted further from center to
>the point where they blurred
>almost completely at the edges.
>
>
>In the end I decided that
>the Kaibab 15x just wasn't
>for me. The dealer
>refunded my money and I
>will continue to save up
>for a pair of Swarovski
>15x's....which I performed the same
>test with and saw no
>loss of focus across the
>entire field of view.
>Sorry for the lengthy post
>but I just hope that
>by doing so I may
>save a fellow hunter from
>the same heart ache I
>experienced.
>
> Sorry Vortex, I so wanted
>this to work out....but it
>just wasn't meant to be....
>
>
>-HS

Thanks for sharing the experience. My guide told me that for 15x and above binoculars, one should really save up for those European binoculars.

 

[fatrooster]

Great post with lots of useful info from several people. I agree with the above statement where 257Tony talked about the new swarovision with field flattener lenses have pretty much gotten rid of the edge distortion. I've actually compared in the store a pair of old style EL's and the new swarovision EL's on an eye chart at the other end of the store and could see the distortion in the edges of the old style but not the new style. Also stated above, Zeiss has that edge distortion in thier spotting scopes. I noticed this several years ago but have never looked through thier newer scopes. Hopefully they've gotten most of the distortion taken care of. Be aware that the distortion is present in the 15 power SLC's but you have to look for it. Still the SLC's are in my opinion the best 15's out there at this time and they are a great bino.
Vortex is a great product and has done some good things for the optic world. First, they made decent optics affordable, second, they came out with the best warranty forcing other companies to beef up thier owne warranties. But as explained to me, some chinese optics will be better than others, even the same make and model. At the Sportsmans Warehouse in Twinn Falls, Idaho the optics sales clerk took two 20 x 60 x 80 Vortex Razor spotting scopes and set them up side by side and had me look through them one at a time. As I looked through them he would place an index card over the 80mm end of the scope and as he slowly moved the card down off of the lens he had me stop him when I could see through the scope. One scope was with about one half of the lens uncovered and the other scope about 5/8's of the lens uncovered. What he was pointing out was that the craftsmanship is not consistent. We did not perform the same test with two swaro's but we did with one of them and it only took about 1/4 of an opening to see through the swaro. So my point is, even though the chinese companies have made some great changes to the optic world, you still don't get the quality that you get with european optics. I personally owne some vortex stuff and have owned Zen Ray in the past but also owne some swaro stuff so I am not bashing Vortex.
One other point is that I respectfully disagree with the above statement that you cannot see with 10 power what you can see with 15 power. I used to owne a pair of 15 SLC's and yes they are sweet. But if you put a pair of 10 power bino's on a tripod I feel that they are almost just as good as the 15's. 10 power to 15 power is only 5 power difference and to me is just not feasible. I sold my 15's and use my 10's on tripod all of the time and feel that I can spot as good as most people using 15's. I am no optics expert and I'm not the best glasser in the world because I've had many people out spot me using some very cheap optics but it doesn't take an expert to see the differences.
Really liked the curvature of the eye post up above which was very informative. Good luck. fatrooster.

 

[magnum300ultra]

Just returned from a successful elk hunting trip to Utah. My partner and I both used the 15 x 56 Kaibab's and enjoyed the hell out of them. Really helped in the early and late light conditions. Other guy had Swarvo's 15 x 56 a little bit sharper but not a grand worth. Sorry they did not work out for you. I'am closer to 60 than 50 and my eyes are not as good as they once were/ JMO

 

[Califelkslayer]

IMO buy the 15X56 SCL Swaros and never look back. Their guarentee is outstanding and they'll last a lifetime.

I wouldn't spent that money on a "discardable" item but I am glad I bought my Swaros 6 yrs ago. One of the best hunting purchases I've ever made.

I was on a guided hunt of my Dad's and had to repeatedly direct the guide to the game. And he was using Vortex. IMO Vortex is good glass, what you pay for. But if you want the best, you'll have to pay for it.

 

[woodruffhunter]

This thread is excellent.

I am a big believer in what works for some, will not work the same for others.

I wish I could find the perfect optics combination, for me. There probably isn't one and I will just need to settle for what I think is best.

Certainly, I have heard good about the Vortex. I have also heard that Swaro's are not worth the extra $$$. Maybe that is the case. But, of all the years I have been on this website, I have seen very few people say they regret spending the extra $$$.

To each their own.

 

[jarheadhunter]

Fatrooster I am with you. I have some Vortex products, but mostly on my rifles that I look through for a few seconds most the time. When buying my bino's I went with the best after upgrading every year over a few years time. The 10x42 Swarovisions on a tripod is the greatest thing I have ever done when it comes to optics. I can set behind them for hours and hours and it's a joy for me.

For me as I always carry a spotting scope I didn't think it was worth the extra weight of the bigger binos. I can find anything I need to then switch over to my spotter for a closer insection.

Swarovski is now coming out with there new ATX/STX spotting scopes and they have the Field flattening lenses in them as well. I might be selling my 65mm HD swaro to get a new STX when it comes out next spring. I guess the ATX is suppose to be availible already or in the next week or two.

To me the price is worth it. It is like your there seeing it in person and not even looking through optics. Sometimes I think the image is even better through the glass then my own eyes.

 

[fatrooster]

jarhead, I was in Scheel's in Salt Lake City on October 10th and they've already got the new spotters. They look sweet but the price is up there. I think I'm gonna try and refrain myself from trying to get one. It seems that although I've got some badass optics made from Swaro, I keep trying to upgrade them anyways every few years and the price of them has been upgraded by leaps and bounds. Its a never ending story, lol.
Thats why Vortex and other new cheaper optic companies have done so well. They are not over priced. fatrooster.

 

[Willametteriveroutlaw]

Thats the problem with cheap asian glass, it looks good in the center and fails in the details.

Vortex, besides the "hype" is an overall dissappointing product in my opinion.. For a midline bino, the new Nikon EDG 7 is really nice bino and is much better than even the top end Vortex.

 

[freebird63]

I have the brunton 15X and love them. I used them more this year then I have since I owned them, got tired of packed the heavy kowa spotting scope. I was always curious how the other 15X panned out. Thank you for all the info guys.

Chuck in Boise