Watch or attend today's Utah Wildlife Board meeting

[Amy]

The Utah Wildlife Board is meeting today at 9 a.m., and there's a mix of items on the agenda, including the big game and antlerless permit numbers for 2022. Here's the feedback that board members have received from the public prior to the meeting.

If you're interested, you can watch the meeting online or attend in person. (The meeting will be held at the Eccles Wildlife Education Center, located at 1157 South Waterfowl Way in Farmington.)

 

[buckhorn]

I wasn’t able to watch but just noticed that it has concluded.
How did the Oak Creek deer tag quotas turn out?
I think they were recommending an increase in the buck tags did that get approved?

 

[middlefork]

You can watch the whole thing or fast forward to the parts you are interested in. But yes they were accepted as presented.

 

[ridgetops]

I wasn’t able to watch but just noticed that it has concluded.
How did the Oak Creek deer tag quotas turn out?
I think they were recommending an increase in the buck tags did that get approved?

I sure in the heck hope they did.

 

[elkfromabove]

I sure in the heck hope they did.

The buck deer tags were approved as presented, It was unanimous! (1:08 on the meeting timeline.)

 

[southernutahhunter]

From the presentations given this year should be a great year in fawn to do rate. I sure hope we see lots of mamas and fawns running around this summer.

 

[slamdunk]

I wasn’t able to watch but just noticed that it has concluded.
How did the Oak Creek deer tag quotas turn out?
I think they were recommending an increase in the buck tags did that get approved?

Let's wipe that unit out as well....

 

[buckhorn]

Let's wipe that unit out as well....

I still haven’t looked yet but I think they were proposing tag increases for Oak Creek. If I remember there will now be two nonresident bonus tags is that correct?

 

[slamdunk]

I still haven’t looked yet but I think they were proposing tag increases for Oak Creek. If I remember there will now be two nonresident bonus tags is that correct?

That makes me feel a little better.
Creating more opportunity destroyed the Henry's.

 

[ridgetops]

The oak creek unit is NOT supposed to be managed as a premium unit but has been and that's wrong. It's supposed to be managed like the Vernon and book cliffs but the local outfitters won't let that happen.

 

[slamdunk]

The oak creek unit is NOT supposed to be managed as a premium unit but has been and that's wrong. It's supposed to be managed like the Vernon and book cliffs but the local outfitters won't let that happen.

Bingo!!!!
Nuff said $$$$$$$

 

[buckhorn]

The oak creek unit is NOT supposed to be managed as a premium unit but has been and that's wrong. It's supposed to be managed like the Vernon and book cliffs but the local outfitters won't let that happen.

IF I would have applied for the rifle hunt I probably would draw with the extra bonus tag this year.
I went for the Muzzy instead.
I figured 25 points wouldn’t be enough for one bonus rifle tag but with two it might be enough.
It will be nice next year when they post the quotas before the application deadline.
Hope it’s not too late for OC by then.

 

[elkassassin]

Thank God Somebody Won't Let it Be Managed Like Vernon & The Book Cliffs!

The oak creek unit is NOT supposed to be managed as a premium unit but has been and that's wrong. It's supposed to be managed like the Vernon and book cliffs but the local outfitters won't let that happen.

 

[ridgetops]

Thank God Somebody Won't Let it Be Managed Like Vernon & The Book Cliffs!

Ya, those units really suck when you only can see 50+ bucks in a single morning of glassing from the roads. Unlike yourself, not everyone is after a 200" class 40" wide buck.

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

50 Bucks in the Book Cliffs Sub Age 3 Really Gets My Blood Pumping!

Just Be Patient Ridge!

They'll Destroy Oak Creek Before Long And It'll Be The Same Quality as the Other LE Units!

Ya, those units really suck when you only can see 50+ bucks in a single morning of glassing from the roads. Unlike yourself, not everyone is after a 200" class 40" wide buck.

 

[ridgetops]

Ya!

50 Bucks in the Book Cliffs Sub Age 3 Really Gets My Blood Pumping!

Just Be Patient Ridge!

They'll Destroy Oak Creek Before Long And It'll Be The Same Quality as the Other LE Units!

Most people are thrilled to see 30-50 small to average sized 3 and 4 points in a day. I hate to break the bad new to you Elk but the DWR doesn't really care about you not seeing a lot of 6 year old bucks running around. If you do, go look around the Henries, Pauns. or AI. I'd guess less than 5% of Utah hunters feel the same way as you so. The majority of Utah hunter using up their 10-15 points on those two units are OK with looking over a bunch of small bucks in hope of maybe seeing something bigger.
BTW, oak creek will not even come close to being shot out by the average joe hunter. If it's a concern, lets start cutting expo and auction tags first.

 

[buckhorn]

Most people are thrilled to see 30-50 small to average sized 3 and 4 points in a day. I hate to break the bad new to you Elk but the DWR doesn't really care about you not seeing a lot of 6 year old bucks running around. If you do, go look around the Henries, Pauns. or AI. I'd guess less than 5% of Utah hunters feel the same way as you so. The majority of Utah hunter using up their 10-15 points on those two units are OK with looking over a bunch of small bucks in hope of maybe seeing something bigger.
BTW, oak creek will not even come close to being shot out by the average joe hunter. If it's a concern, lets start cutting expo and auction tags first.

I would love to do away with auction and expo tags.
And cut back on guides as well.
Ridge may be right about the average Joe not shooting out the OC unless the DWR issues too many tags, which they very well may do in the near future.
They’re already on that road.
Also with the amount of points it takes to draw OC a lot of those hunters will not be the average Joe types.

 

[slamdunk]

BTW, oak creek will not even come close to being shot out by the average joe hunter. If it's a concern, lets start cutting expo and auction tags first.
[/QUOTE]

You mean all two auction tags??‍

 

[middlefork]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac_minutes/SR-2020-deer-unit-plan-21A_Fillmore-Oak-Creek.pdf

 

[elkassassin]

I Do Believe There Are a Bunch of Hunters with Many Points that are Wanting To Some Day Draw & They Could Careless How Many 2-3 year Old PISSCUTTERS They See!

They'll destroy It!

Mark My Word on it!

Most people are thrilled to see 30-50 small to average sized 3 and 4 points in a day. I hate to break the bad new to you Elk but the DWR doesn't really care about you not seeing a lot of 6 year old bucks running around. If you do, go look around the Henries, Pauns. or AI. I'd guess less than 5% of Utah hunters feel the same way as you so. The majority of Utah hunter using up their 10-15 points on those two units are OK with looking over a bunch of small bucks in hope of maybe seeing something bigger.
BTW, oak creek will not even come close to being shot out by the average joe hunter. If it's a concern, lets start cutting expo and auction tags first.

 

[ridgetops]

BTW, oak creek will not even come close to being shot out by the average joe hunter. If it's a concern, lets start cutting expo and auction tags first.

You mean all two auction tags??‍
[/QUOTE]
Need to include all the landowner tags that are being sold to guided hunters too.

 

[ridgetops]

I Do Believe There Are a Bunch of Hunters with Many Points that are Wanting To Some Day Draw & They Could Careless How Many 2-3 year Old PISSCUTTERS They See!

They'll destroy It!

Mark My Word on it!

I've been hearing that same thing about the Vernon for the past 20 years.

 

[elkassassin]

And You Haven't Noticed a Decline on the Vernon the Last Couple/Few Years?

I've been hearing that same thing about the Vernon for the past 20 years.

 

[ridgetops]

And You Haven't Noticed a Decline on the Vernon the Last Couple/Few Years?

Not really, if a guy doesn't know the unit then he's going to struggle finding older bucks. Just like 5, 10 and 15 years ago.

 

[buckhorn]

You mean all two auction tags??‍

Need to include all the landowner tags that are being sold to guided hunters too.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. I’ve noticed in the majority of pictures of all the big bucks taken most of them have guide/outfitters logos.

 

[slamdunk]

Need to include all the landowner tags that are being sold to guided hunters too.

Yep. I’ve noticed in the majority of pictures of all the big bucks taken most of them have guide/outfitters logos.
[/QUOTE]
We can't regulate who buys landowner tags, but I know the MDF & SFW each receives one for conservation.

 

[Elkslayer]

There's 7-8 tags given to the oak creek landowners association to do with what they want alone. I'm not sure what the other organizations get.

 

[slamdunk]

There's 7-8 tags given to the oak creek landowners association to do with what they want alone. I'm not sure what the other organizations get.

MDF and SFW each receive one tag, there are no others going to the other conservation groups.

Outfitters are buying up the landowner tags and selling raffle tickets for $10 each on Vernon, Paunsaugunt and San Juan elk.
Might be more that I'm unaware of.
It's the new "thing".

 

[Downrange]

The land owner tags on the oak creek are all sold in auction at the SFW banquets across the state to the highest bidder.

 

[Elkslayer]

The land owner tags on the oak creek are all sold in auction at the SFW banquets across the state to the highest bidder.

You are correct.

 

[elkfromabove]

The land owner tags on the oak creek are all sold in auction at the SFW banquets across the state to the highest bidder.

So, where is the money going? Landowners? SFW? DWR? All 3 of them? And in what percentage?

It was easy to see/hear who are buddies in this triad (Troy called them Bretheren, they exchanged stories and jokes, and they gave him more then his allotted 3 minutes.), but I would like to find out how far this buddy system goes.

 

[Downrange]

I think all 3, I don’t know the percentages, but would be nice to find out.

 

[Downrange]

Been talking around a little bit and I think the landowners divide up the sum of all the money and was told they then can’t complain about deer on their property and can’t apply for crop damage. But I’m not sure if I’m exactly right on this or not.

 

[Elkslayer]

The landowners association gets all the money from the sales, from there the money get divided according to the acreage the individual owns. I've been told the special interest groups don't get much, if anything. It's just incentive for them to get people to buy seats at banquets. But, like Downrange said, the association can't complain about animals on their property.

 

[D33RHNTR]

So, where is the money going? Landowners? SFW? DWR? All 3 of them? And in what percentage?

It was easy to see/hear who are buddies in this triad (Troy called them Bretheren, they exchanged stories and jokes, and they gave him more then his allotted 3 minutes.), but I would like to find out how far this buddy system goes.

Did you like that? Anyone else goes a second beyond their time window and they get cut off almost immediately. The prophet of $FW gets up speak on his revelations and that clown albrecht can’t quit smiling like the goofy clown he is. He looks like a kid that momma just handed a crisp $10 bill in the dollar store... They gave him the room and would have sat there all morning listening to Troy if he wanted it that way. Yet another fine example documented for us all on who’s voice matters in this

 

[elkassassin]

Some Peoples 3 Minutes are Longer Than Others!

 

[buckhorn]

The landowners association gets all the money from the sales, from there the money get divided according to the acreage the individual owns. I've been told the special interest groups don't get much, if anything. It's just incentive for them to get people to buy seats at banquets. But, like Downrange said, the association can't complain about animals on their property.

Do the landowner tag holders get to choose their season or which hunts do they get?

 

[D33RHNTR]

Do the landowner tag holders get to choose their season or which hunts do they get?

Any season of their choosing, unit wide. The tag is designed for excellent success for those who have paid for them. Not to manage deer numbers within the property like the tag was originally created for

 

[buckhorn]

Any season of their choosing, unit wide. The tag is designed for excellent success for those who have paid for them. Not to manage deer numbers within the property like the tag was originally created for

Same thing here in Nevada.

I think in Idaho it’s called the landowner appreciation program.
(LAP)

I’m curious to know which season most of the landowner tag holders choose?

 

[deadibob]

The oak creek unit is NOT supposed to be managed as a premium unit but has been and that's wrong. It's supposed to be managed like the Vernon and book cliffs but the local outfitters won't let that happen.

If it wasn't managed the way it is then it wouldn't be worth applying for or even talking about. Maybe that's a good thing because there's been too much traffic lately.

 

[deadibob]

Most people are thrilled to see 30-50 small to average sized 3 and 4 points in a day. I hate to break the bad new to you Elk but the DWR doesn't really care about you not seeing a lot of 6 year old bucks running around. If you do, go look around the Henries, Pauns. or AI. I'd guess less than 5% of Utah hunters feel the same way as you so. The majority of Utah hunter using up their 10-15 points on those two units are OK with looking over a bunch of small bucks in hope of maybe seeing something bigger.
BTW, oak creek will not even come close to being shot out by the average joe hunter. If it's a concern, lets start cutting expo and auction tags first.

The elk were shot out on the Oak Creek the first year they opened it to a general unit, it was a slaughter and the same would happen to the Mule deer.

 

[deadibob]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac_minutes/SR-2020-deer-unit-plan-21A_Fillmore-Oak-Creek.pdf

I copied this paragraph from the Oak Creek deer plan. This is one of the biggest problems facing Utah deer herds: A COMPUTER MODEL!

Population Size - Utilizing harvest data, postseason classification and mortality estimates, a computer model has been developed to estimate winter population size. The 2019 model estimates the population at 1,500 deer.

 

[buckhorn]

I copied this paragraph from the Oak Creek deer plan. This is one of the biggest problems facing Utah deer herds: A COMPUTER MODEL!

Population Size - Utilizing harvest data, postseason classification and mortality estimates, a computer model has been developed to estimate winter population size. The 2019 model estimates the population at 1,500 deer.

So with 1500 deer and a 35 to 100 buck/doe ratio that means there’s over 500 bucks.
Could that be correct?

 

[elkhunterUT]

So with 1500 deer and a 35 to 100 buck/doe ratio that means there’s over 500 bucks.
Could that be correct?

"Could be" is key there - historically those numbers are a guess.

Based on recent actions of the DWR and their leadership, I think they fully understand and value the benefit of real data and they seem to be embracing it more and more (BIG kudos to them!!). I hope "computer models" will become a thing of the past and we will begin to rely on and real and timely data. Sounds like we are headed that way with mandatory harvest reporting in the near future, but still may be limited a bit on herd counts/classifications as that is costly and typically only done every 3 years or so on a given unit.

 

[middlefork]

Considering every western state uses population modeling and share ideas and research with each other I'm not sure you will ever see it going away.

Mule Deer Working Group – WAFWA

wafwa.org

 

[elkassassin]

GOOD GAWD!

They'll Never Allow a 35 Per 100 Ratio!

 

[buckhorn]

GOOD GAWD!

They'll Never Allow a 35 Per 100 Ratio!

They might on OC but I imagine it will get added to the Premium price list.

 

[grizzly]

So with 1500 deer and a 35 to 100 buck/doe ratio that means there’s over 500 bucks.
Could that be correct?

That's a common misconception.

It's actually a ratio written as 35:100, instead of a proportion which would be written as 35/100.

That means out of 1500 deer there would be 389 bucks and 1,111 does.

(Think of it more as 35 bucks out of 135 deer or 35/135)

Another example would be 1 boy and 3 girls in a class. That would be 1:3 boys to girls... or 1/4 in the class are boys.

 

[elkfromabove]

That's a common misconception.

It's actually a ratio written as 35:100, instead of a proportion which would be written as 35/100.

That means out of 1500 deer there would be 389 bucks and 1,111 does.

(Think of it more as 35 bucks out of 135 deer or 35/135)

Another example would be 1 boy and 3 girls in a class. That would be 1:3 boys to girls... or 1/4 in the class are boys.

I like to think of it in visual terms and decimals
On the left I see a herd of 100 does while on the right I see a herd of 35 bucks. That's the buck to doe ratio part.

Then Grizzly's math works out to:
100 does + 35 bucks = 135 deer.
Since 35 of them are bucks, then 35/135 = .259
Unit population (1500) x .259 = 388.5 bucks.
(If you ever see that half-buck/half-doe, be sure to take a picture. )

 

[elkassassin]

When The JUNK Buck To Doe Ratio Management Is TRASH Canned & Some REAL Management is Put in Force Let Me Know!

And I Quote:

Our Herds Are Looking Great!

Might Only Have a 100 Head on the Unit But By GAWD 14 of them are Bucks!

WAFJ!