Watch today's Utah Wildlife Board work session

[Amy]

Just a quick reminder that the Utah Wildlife Board is holding a work session today at 9 a.m., where they'll receive updates on a variety of elk-related issues. These sessions are typically held at the board's request, and it's an opportunity for them to dive into topics, ask the biologists questions and discuss timely issues. There are no action items and no public comment at today's meeting, but we are livestreaming it (see below) for those who are interested in the presentations and discussions. If you can't watch the work session as it's happening, the recording will be available to watch later at your convenience.

The board is also holding a standard meeting — with public comment — tomorrow (Aug. 25) at 9 a.m. Here's the agenda for that one.

 

[Robiland]

Definitely some interesting info. I wish it didnt cut out so much. Audio was tough to listen too. Seemed like whenever a good point was about to be made, my audio cut. Oh well. But it was nice to see the info on age class and some units are wasting bulls. I didnt catch all of it. But would love to see a total revue of what all was said, since I have to get back to work.

 

[mtnrunner260]

Yes the audio is not very good.
Don't know if it's speakers looking away from microphone or quality of equipment.
The draw odds for a LE elk tag if you started today sure aren't very encouraging.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

This was by far the best presentation and explains what is truly going on.
That said we are going down a road we don't want to go down.

Did you hear what she said?

Some units if your just starting out in the points pool it will take 40 years to draw a rifle tag, Then the other high end units will take 60 years.
We can't fix LE Elk points creep, even if we drop all the unit's down to 5-6 year old age class period.

We have 30 LE units 70% of our Elk are on those units. Why are we allowing 3,000 LE Elk tags, Dictate the GS Any Bull units.

When does this stop?

So lets focus on something we can fix GS Any Bull. If we make this hunt 4 point or better and split our big units in half. like Wasatch and book cliffs and south west desert and throw Diamond Mountain in there because we all know it is going to general season any ways.

This will allow us to go unlimited tags for residence. We will have to split the rifle hunt up into 1st season and second season 7 day hunt just to help with crowding. Heck we might be able to do a 3rd season hunt during the deer hunt.

We have to do something for our kids sakes and grand children.

The newer generation of hunters will loose interest if they have to wait 5 years for a tag and this will all be lost.

 

[hogg_65]

Weapon success graph showed the Muzz hunts just as successful as the Rifle hunts. Most units for LE Elk, early any weapon success is 100%. Good information shown to us during the work session. We are too efficient at killing animals, we are our biggest reason for decline in animals quality and quantity.

 

[deadibob]

Weapon success graph showed the Muzz hunts just as successful as the Rifle hunts. Most units for LE Elk, early any weapon success is 100%. Good information shown to us during the work session. We are too efficient at killing animals, we are our biggest reason for decline in animals quality and quantity.

absolutely correct. The only way we can significantly increase tags is to seriously decrease success rates. The only way we decrease success rates is to limit weapon technology.

When I implement new firearm restrictions and definitions next year ? we will be well on our way to bettering opportunity as well as creating hunters instead of long range snipers.

Legal Archery hunt equipment:
Recurve or Longbows only. No compound bows period.

Any weapon hunt restrictions:
No firearm or firearm aiming (optical) mounted equipment which was not available to the public post 1920. Basically WWI era and earlier design weapons only.

Muzzleloader season allowable firearms:
Sidelock percussion cap or flintlock rifles only. No magnifying optics. Full bore lead or lead alloyed projectiles only.

NO ELECTRONIC OR POWERED OPTICS ALLOWED INCLUDING NIGHT VISION OR RANGE FINDING SIGHT SYSTEMS ALLOWED ON ANY HUNT EQUIPMENT REGARDLESS OF WEAPON TYPE SEASON.

I am being generous by not restricting modern viewing optics or hand-held rangefinders. If I hear any wailing or gnashing of teeth I will restrict these as well and also outlaw any clothing systems or materials not available pre-1960. Just imagine how much money you flat-brimmers will save not needing to purchase Sitka, Kuiu, etc., type clothing to maintain the modern hunter image.

For those opposed or own equipment which will be restricted I will offer a weapon/gear buy back or trade in for fishing poles, golf clubs and hand-held video games. If you don't like it you can go play Mario.

 

[Madmax13]

Lets fix it by getting rid of the bonus point system and go to a straight lottery and 7 year waiting periods...

 

[middlefork]

Might be better off going OIL with the current management plan.

It should be interesting to see what recommendations the elk committee make for the new elk plan.

 

[treedagain]

So lets focus on something we can fix GS Any Bull. If we make this hunt 4 point or better and split our big units in half. like Wasatch and book cliffs and south west desert and throw Diamond Mountain in there because we all know it is going to general season any ways.

You really think Diamond will go GS? And those greedy ass landowners throw away all that money? I don't think so.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

You really think Diamond will go GS? And those greedy ass landowners throw away all that money? I don't think so.

Yup just wait till the September board meeting on the 29.

 

[elkassassin]

absolutely correct. The only way we can significantly increase tags is to seriously decrease success rates. The only way we decrease success rates is to limit weapon technology.

When I implement new firearm restrictions and definitions next year ? we will be well on our way to bettering opportunity as well as creating hunters instead of long range snipers.

Legal Archery hunt equipment:
Recurve or Longbows only. No compound bows period.

Any weapon hunt restrictions:
No firearm or firearm aiming (optical) mounted equipment which was not available to the public post 1920. Basically WWI era and earlier design weapons only.

Muzzleloader season allowable firearms:
Sidelock percussion cap or flintlock rifles only. No magnifying optics. Full bore lead or lead alloyed projectiles only.

NO ELECTRONIC OR POWERED OPTICS ALLOWED INCLUDING NIGHT VISION OR RANGE FINDING SIGHT SYSTEMS ALLOWED ON ANY HUNT EQUIPMENT REGARDLESS OF WEAPON TYPE SEASON.

I am being generous by not restricting modern viewing optics or hand-held rangefinders. If I hear any wailing or gnashing of teeth I will restrict these as well and also outlaw any clothing systems or materials not available pre-1960. Just imagine how much money you flat-brimmers will save not needing to purchase Sitka, Kuiu, etc., type clothing to maintain the modern hunter image.

Ya!

Niller Will Be Impressed With This One!

For those opposed or own equipment which will be restricted I will offer a weapon/gear buy back or trade in for fishing poles, golf clubs and hand-held video games. If you don't like it you can go play Mario.

 

[treedagain]

Yup just wait till the September board meeting on the 29.

That will be great news. 1 year to undo 20 building the herd. I know where I will be sitting.
Think of how many points it will take in the GS draw for deer?

Those landowners will show us won't they?

I love diamond in the fall. Looking forward to 2024 with a GS elk tag in my pocket.

 

[deadibob]

Lets fix it by getting rid of the bonus point system and go to a straight lottery and 7 year waiting periods...

You must not have many points if your willing to sacrifice the odds of people that have been putting in for over 25 years to draw a tag.

Very generous of you.

 

[deadibob]

You must not have many points if your willing to sacrifice the odds of people that have been putting in for over 25 years to draw a tag.

Very generous of you.

How about All TAGS are given out to max point holders and work the way down from there until all point holders have drawn and then we throw away the point system. That sounds like the right thing to do. Hell we can be generous and let 10% of all tags go to non-max holders. This will whittle down point creep in a hurry.

 

[Vanilla]

How about All TAGS are given out to max point holders and work the way down from there until all point holders have drawn and then we throw away the point system. That sounds like the right thing to do. Hell we can be generous and let 10% of all tags go to non-max holders. This will whittle down point creep in a hurry.

Not really. Take the SJ unit, as an example. If you want an early rifle tag, and we adopted this method, it would take 7 years just to get through the top 4 point pools. The 5th highest point pool currently would then be sitting at 29 points in 7 years. It will take 3 more years to get through that 5th highest pool. Then the 6th highest when they start getting drawn will be over 30 points.

Eventually people are going to have to realize that none of their ideas will reduce point creep. None. Full random draw gets rid of “point creep” as it gets rid of points, but it certainly doesn’t increase anyone’s odds of drawing. We need to double the tags and cut the amount of applicants in half if we ever realistically hoped to do that. That isn’t happening.

Instead of trying to “fix” the draw system with equally broke ideas to the LE and OIL systems, it may merit considering making more GS hunts.

 

[elkantlers]

The way Utah does the draw is about as fair as it gets. 50/50 gives everyone a shot at a tag.

 

[gundog2]

Not really. Take the SJ unit, as an example. If you want an early rifle tag, and we adopted this method, it would take 7 years just to get through the top 4 point pools. The 5th highest point pool currently would then be sitting at 29 points in 7 years. It will take 3 more years to get through that 5th highest pool. Then the 6th highest when they start getting drawn will be over 30 points.

Eventually people are going to have to realize that none of their ideas will reduce point creep. None. Full random draw gets rid of “point creep” as it gets rid of points, but it certainly doesn’t increase anyone’s odds of drawing. We need to double the tags and cut the amount of applicants in half if we ever realistically hoped to do that. That isn’t happening.

Instead of trying to “fix” the draw system with equally broke ideas to the LE and OIL systems, it may merit considering making more GS hunts.

The LE system works perfectly fine, especially considering the fact that you can still walk into a sporting goods store and buy general elk archery tags.

 

[deadibob]

Not really. Take the SJ unit, as an example. If you want an early rifle tag, and we adopted this method, it would take 7 years just to get through the top 4 point pools. The 5th highest point pool currently would then be sitting at 29 points in 7 years. It will take 3 more years to get through that 5th highest pool. Then the 6th highest when they start getting drawn will be over 30 points.

Eventually people are going to have to realize that none of their ideas will reduce point creep. None. Full random draw gets rid of “point creep” as it gets rid of points, but it certainly doesn’t increase anyone’s odds of drawing. We need to double the tags and cut the amount of applicants in half if we ever realistically hoped to do that. That isn’t happening.

Instead of trying to “fix” the draw system with equally broke ideas to the LE and OIL systems, it may merit considering making more GS hunts.

You aren't going to disappear a point system that has had people waiting in line half of their life and then tell them "sorry we're erasing your points and starting over". Point creep is what is, maybe you guys shouldn't have been putting in Grandma for the last fifteen years. Yeah we can do away with the point system but we are going to demand reparations first, $1,000 for each point previously acquired. If you don't like that then get to the back of the line.
I remember being at the meetings when they first tried to implement and sell us on the current draw system, I believe it was in '94-'95. They tried to tell us we would be hunting great bulls approximately every five years. That sure worked out well and if you haven't noticed what happens each time the DWR tries to fix the system, it doesn't work so well.

 

[Vanilla]

I haven’t been putting grandma in the draw, and I don’t support getting rid of the point system. At all.

Go back, slow down, re-read my post.

 

[Vanilla]

The LE system works perfectly fine, especially considering the fact that you can still walk into a sporting goods store and buy general elk archery tags.

I don’t know that it’s “perfectly fine,” but it’s fine. Utah’s draw system is the best of all the bad systems out there, IMO.

 

[Madmax13]

You must not have many points if your willing to sacrifice the odds of people that have been putting in for over 25 years to draw a tag.

Very generous of you.

No I drew in 2019 and am still on my waiting period haha.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

You really think Diamond will go GS? And those greedy ass landowners throw away all that money? I don't think so.

treedagain well it was talked about!
But I think making it a spike unit is more of a slap in the face for them.
They have no say in what happens up there now.

 

[treedagain]

treedagain well it was talked about!
But I think making it a spike unit is more of a slap in the face for them.
They have no say in what happens up there now.

I can only imagine half of Vernal and Roosevelt on that mtn. The other half on Anthro?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I can only imagine half of Vernal and Roosevelt on that mtn. The other half on Anthro?

Right!
it would of been a slaughter fest. Now it looks like everyone will be heading to Anthro now.

 

[elkassassin]

Sure Gonna Be A Couple Of Happy Hunters & 1,000's Of Hunters With A Bad Attitude on The Final Decimation of Anthro!

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

I like the new plan. More opportunity, more general season units, more LE tags. Still going to have a shot at a monster on some of those Le units. Very interesting how they gave out so many bull tags on the Wasatch and it's still above objective. I think they're doing a good job. We just might have a few decent public land units for elk!

The difference between limited entry and general season tags in Utah might be the biggest discrepancy in the west.

 

[treedagain]

Right!
it would of been a slaughter fest. Now it looks like everyone will be heading to Anthro now.

I will hit diamond and wack a spike. I am sure I will not be alone. And yes Anthro will get hammered. Along with pauns. And deep creek.

It will spread out the hunters and make the rest of the state will get a bit of a rest.