We need to stick together.

[nvthrt]

I have been watching the whole clayborn hunters alert thing for a while now and it makes me want to throw my laptop. We are all hunters and shouldnt be fighting with each other. We should stick together. Nevada dose have a problem with the deer herds but there are people who enjoy and spend alot of time and money to hunt other animals in this great state. The preators are a small part of the problem but there are alot bigger issues that need looked at.
When the deer herds were really good back in the day there were alot more lions than there are now and not as many people were hunting them. When the two lion tags per person came out alot of lions were killed.
Last winter we got alot of snow and it got hard real fast. The deer were breaking through the snow and the coyotes wernt. I found at least 30 kills that were coyote and one lion kill. This was all in a two week period of time on one mountian range.
So what i am saying is that we shouldnt fight with each other we should save up for when the antis come and we need all of us to try to save our sport. This is just my opinon and everyone has a rite to it.

 

[bgh7404jas]

Good post, I agree 100%

Jerad

 

[htnfool]

Here, Here!!!

 

[NVBighorn]

good post

 

[nvmuley]

Yes, we should all be working toward a common goal of managing the states' wildlife for the greatest good. I have always wondered why groups, like the sierra club for example, do not work better with hunter type conservation groups for the benefit of wildlife. I guess so many of those types just cannot get over the fact that hunters hunt.
They just cannot get over the fact we hunt and kill animals. They want all people to be just like them i guess
The hard part is getting everyone to prioritize issues affecting wildlife. Some think predators are a very large part of the problem, some think they are not. Getting all the correct information together to make the best decisions can be very tough. Sorting out facts from opinion. For example: The comment "When the deer herds were really good back in the day there were a lot more lions than there are now" ..... probably does not apply to all areas off the state. The lion harvest for the western part of the state was only one lion from 1996 to 1987. Lately it has been 12 to 22 lions a year.
Old time government trappers have told me the same thing you said about coyotes. And boy do we plenty of coyotes!

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[NVBighorn]

>areas off the state. The
>lion harvest for the western
>part of the state was
>only one lion from 1996
>to 1987. Lately
>it has been 12 to
>22 lions a year.

nvmuley,
what are you considering the "western part of the state"? I've seen you make this statement more than once and I would like to know what area you are referring to.

 

[nvmuley]

The data came from NDOW and shows the lion harvest from areas 1 and 2, northern Washoe county.

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[Alex]

nvthrt writes: So what i am saying is that we shouldnt fight with each other we should save up for when the antis come and we need all of us to try to save our sport. This is just my opinon and everyone has a rite to it.

I would agree with that statement except for when a proposed bill is not only opening the door but waving the red flag at the anti-hunter. We have to stop that bill. If we don't we will have no sport to fight for.

Alex

 

[nvmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-09 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]This is a quote from the study linked below it:

Cook et al. (1971) were the first biologists to study causes of fawn mortality
with the aid of radiotelemetry. Seventy-two percent (58 of 81) of radiocollared fawns
died within 60 days of birth; 93% of those died during the first month of life.
Predation accounted for 83% of losses. Seventeen percent died as a result of
starvation, disease, or accidents.

http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/RoleofPredatorControl/008.pdf

I have always been interested in why mule deer numbers have declined throughout the west over the last few decades. This decline has occurred even in areas where habitat change has not been apparent. What is the common link? The link above summarizes a lot of studies that have been done over the years. I know it is a complex problem with many contributing factors. I tried to find a link to the 15 year study done on mule deer, lions etc in the Kings River area but could not find it. It has some great information in it!
I have personally seen doe mule deer and female antelope chasing coyotes away from their fawns and trying to kick the coyotes. But the coyotes work in teams and still usually get one of the fawns. All we can do as hunters is try and predator hunt whenever we can.
Many other studies document the need for predator control to save moose, desert bighorns, and the rare California bighorn sheep in the Sierra's. (not the same as the CA bighorn we hunt in NV) Recently wolves have been impacting big game populations.
Look at the problems OR is having. Those poor guys can't even use hounds to control lions and bears.


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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[nvthrt]

The
>lion harvest for the western
>part of the state was
>only one lion from 1996
>to 1987. Lately
>it has been 12 to
>22 lions a year.

1987 to 1996 Isnt that around when a lion hunter could kill two lions a year? Washoe county has some differnt issues than other parts of the state i do see your point of the lions coming over from cali. But i know quite a few people that run over there and they have been killing a few. They said it is just as tough as anywere else.

 

[nvthrt]

Alex
I agree with you 100% we do need to stop this bill if we don't we could be in real trouble like cali and oregon.

 

[nvmuley]

Yes, quite a few lion hunters around western NV now. It took a while for them to get geared up with dogs but they are doing a good job now hunting the lions. My hats off to them
My own lion track observations have gone down, from a high of 43 one fall/winter to 15 last year.
The USDA website has information on the predator project in unit 14. It is interesting reading about all the predator problems they deal with all over NV. Lot's of coyote problems killing sheep and pets near towns. They took 9 lions out of 14 last year. If they are getting a handle on them, that should really help the deer and CA bighorns. The lions have mountainous travel way right through unit 15 that extends all the way to CA.



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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[nvthrt]

It would really help if there werent so many horses up there. I was on a sheep hunt in 012 a couple of years ago and all the horses that was unreal.

 

[NVBighorn]

Here is NDOW's predator management plan from 2006. Not sure if anything more recent has been published. I think it underscores the fact that predator management is a complex science and generalities should not be applied to it statewide. I think it also tells me they are trying to spend our money the best way they can and making it go for the good of all.

http://www.ndow.org/about/pubs/reports/predator.pdf

 

[nvmuley]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-09 AT 11:43AM (MST)[p]You are right about that nvthrt !

I bowhunted antelope in 12 back in 1973 and what a change today. One spring in the unit had the most sagehens I have ever seen in one morning. A herd of antelope was standing in the background. The last time I was there, the ground was hard packed, the spring was coned out hole in the ground with a tiny pool of water. The horses stand around and wait for the hole to fill in to get a drink. I saw the horses keep away a couple of antelope from drinking. No grass around the spring at all. No sagebrush. No sagehens and it smelled like a barnyard.
I guess the Sierra Club and Harry Reid figures that is progress, it's a wilderness.

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[nvmuley]

Here's the 2008 predator management. It has a dead fawn on the cover.
I personally found 2 lion kills on one scouting trip to unit 15 a few summers ago. One a fawn and one a three point buck in velvet. In the summer heat, the meat spoils fast and I think the lions only get one good meal before the carcass spoils.


http://www.ndow.org/about/pubs/reports/predator08.pdf

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[nvmuley]

Here is a picture of the 3 point buck after the lion finished it's meal.

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[NVBighorn]

Yep, death is never pretty.

 

[NVBighorn]

Thanks. I repeat my post #13.

 

[nvthrt]

One big tom that has a taste for horse meat is worth its weight in gold. We killed a big tom off a stud horse at the ranch a few years back and i wish i would of never killed him he was doing me some good i have more horses than ever now.

 

[nvthrt]

>Yes, quite a few lion hunters
>around western NV now. It
>took a while for them
>to get geared up with
>dogs but they are doing
>a good job now hunting
>the lions. My hats off
>to them
> My own lion track observations
>have gone down, from a
>high of 43 one fall/winter
>to 15 last year.
> The USDA website has information
>on the predator project in
>unit 14. It is interesting
>reading about all the predator
>problems they deal with all
>over NV. Lot's of coyote
>problems killing sheep and pets
>near towns. They took
>9 lions out of 14
>last year. If they are
>getting a handle on them,
>that should really help the
>deer and CA bighorns. The
>lions have mountainous travel way
>right through unit 15 that
>extends all the way to
>CA.
>
>
>
>
If the lion hunters are starting to get it under control why not keep it the way it is and keep letting them do what they love. They have a right to hunt just as everybody dose if all the lions are killed off then that right was taken away and in my opinon that isnt the way it should be. I hunt deer sheep elk and lion is my expensive past time and i love to to that more than any other. I am for preador control but i don't want to see all the lions killed or none of them killed. Last month there were two collerd rams killed down by pioche and they were bolth killed by coyotes. When i am out looking for tracks i see about 150 coyote tracks to one lion track. I would like to see more coyotes killed i think it would help some. But the preadors are just a small part of the whole picture.

 

[SheepSeeker]

NvBighorn, Is that a cookie behind his ear?

 

[NVBighorn]

it just may be

 

[dwalton]

nvmuley,

Your post(#14) hits the nail on the head concerning the declining deer. You could take all the lions out of that area, and the horses would still continue to destroy the habitat. This non-native scourge causes an extreme amount of damage to the wildlife in Nevada.

Of course, only the wolf triggers stronger emotions than the feral horses in the West.

 

[Califelkslayer]

The original post was about our in-fighting. I agree but we should be able to debate our ideas of whats best for the wildlife we hunt. We can always close ranks when the antis get near.

 

[nvmuley]

I suppose being an older guy, I remember the old days fondly. Younger hunters have grown up with the lower deer numbers, lower sagehen populations, the "feel good" policies and lot's of feral horses.
Things sure seemed better when there were more real good "steward's of the land". I guess by that I mean ranchers and their cattle. Predators were kept in check, water was piped to areas where it was needed for the cattle, rangeland was rotated for grazing, and it was maintained for free by the ranchers. Cattle left the range for the winter and there was still food left for deer and antelope to feed on.
My how things have changed with all the "city thoughts" and "city people's" ideas put into actual management practice. The proof is in the pudding as they say. The liberal, politcally correct management style practiced by the BLM and Forest Service, suits the rangeland about as good as the liberal economic policies we practice today.
Ooops, just fell of my old soap box
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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[nvthrt]

nvmuley

You forgot about the horses that the ranchers took care of as well.When the ranchers had control of the horses they were actualy good horses and not imbred jugheads the ranchers would turn out a good stud or cull a bad one . I am very lucky my grandfather saw what was going to happen and shot all of the horses on our range. But even now they still come. The blm is to keep the same number of horses on an allotment as the first count when the wild horse act came. I called them when we got a few and they never came so all i can do is keep trying.

 

[nvmuley]

Good point nvthrt,
If a rancher left his cows on the range and they did all the damage the feral horses are doing. Damage to the waterholes, the vegetation and inteference with the native sheep, antelope and deer, the rancher would be arrested and hauled off in handcuffs. And every major news network would be there to cover the story. Just my opinion of course


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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.

 

[nvthrt]

I have to deal with the elk too they can really tear up a spring box. It takes alot of work to rebuild them but i deal with it. Between the elk and the horses it keeps me real busy in the summer trying to stay ahead of them. A few years ago the elk hit the medows real hard and tore up alot of fence ndow came out and looked at it and i got a check for 128.28 i just bit my lip and bought all of the stuff to fix the fence.