Livetahunt
Active Member
- Messages
- 366
G-6 here max points Lot of good that does.
What did you put in for
- Thread starter Livetahunt
- Start date
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,077
Planned on X6A with 3 points, figured a pretty good chance. Wanted to hunt the desert portion off of my horse. Lastminute I put my 0 point girlfriend in with me. Oh well, if we draw, she'll have some shooting and hopefully some fun.
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I'm an x5a guy. Glutton for disappointment. '05 in that area averaged seeing about 3 deer a day on a 10 day hunt. I'm sure some of those were counted twice. I do like to hunt there though, nice country.
Joey
Joey
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,077
In my humble opinion, 5A is as good as 5B. I hunt chukar lots in 5B and the deer #'s are so low that where I used to see 20-30 deer a day, I may cut one fresh track chasing chukar for 6 hours.
M
Model_70_Guy
Guest
>I'm an x5a guy. Glutton for
>disappointment. '05 in that area
>averaged seeing about 3 deer
>a day on a 10
>day hunt. I'm sure some
>of those were counted twice.
>I do like to hunt
>there though, nice country.
>
>Joey
I agree with yoy Joey, It's real nice country and one of my favorite areas to hunt deer.. or at least it used to be.
We used to hunt that area (x5a) in the late 70's and 80's and the deer hunting was great. We took some really nice bucks and some years the whole camp filled up opening weekend but the deer numbers have gone way down from years gone past. We ran in a F&G biologist and he confirmed the lack of deer in the area we used to hunt. Primary reason - loss of habitat (bitter brush) a staple for the deer. He told us find bitter brush and you will find the deer. Last time I drove through the same area there had been a big fire and the place looked so barren. Don't know how the area is now, maybe the fire helped but I sure do miss the deer hunts we had in that area.
Jim
>disappointment. '05 in that area
>averaged seeing about 3 deer
>a day on a 10
>day hunt. I'm sure some
>of those were counted twice.
>I do like to hunt
>there though, nice country.
>
>Joey
I agree with yoy Joey, It's real nice country and one of my favorite areas to hunt deer.. or at least it used to be.
We used to hunt that area (x5a) in the late 70's and 80's and the deer hunting was great. We took some really nice bucks and some years the whole camp filled up opening weekend but the deer numbers have gone way down from years gone past. We ran in a F&G biologist and he confirmed the lack of deer in the area we used to hunt. Primary reason - loss of habitat (bitter brush) a staple for the deer. He told us find bitter brush and you will find the deer. Last time I drove through the same area there had been a big fire and the place looked so barren. Don't know how the area is now, maybe the fire helped but I sure do miss the deer hunts we had in that area.
Jim
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-08 AT 10:02AM (MST)[p]Jim, Thanks,
Loss of Bitter Brush huh? These Biologists guys crack me up, in fact i think they think that we are all on crack, some of the stories they tell. I have enough College credits in Natural Resourse Recreation, heavy on the Sciences, to have one of their jobs, if i weren't color blind, and have sat through several "meetings" with them and concerned others, lately. They know the truth, but getting it out of them is like pulling teeth.
Anyway, i know where tons of bitter brush is. The habitat is so awsome, you expect to see deer everywhere you look, they are just not there, Void, empty set, nada, none. Hardly any old sign either as in winter ground use.
Calif. had better get it's preditor-prey program on line with the animals #'s or we are not going to have any deer in some of our "Preimum" North Eastern Areas. Sad!
Joey
Loss of Bitter Brush huh? These Biologists guys crack me up, in fact i think they think that we are all on crack, some of the stories they tell. I have enough College credits in Natural Resourse Recreation, heavy on the Sciences, to have one of their jobs, if i weren't color blind, and have sat through several "meetings" with them and concerned others, lately. They know the truth, but getting it out of them is like pulling teeth.
Anyway, i know where tons of bitter brush is. The habitat is so awsome, you expect to see deer everywhere you look, they are just not there, Void, empty set, nada, none. Hardly any old sign either as in winter ground use.
Calif. had better get it's preditor-prey program on line with the animals #'s or we are not going to have any deer in some of our "Preimum" North Eastern Areas. Sad!
Joey
oilcan
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,783
I'm sure Loss of habitat has something to do with it but Here's some interesting facts.
In 1990 the Bear population was 15,000 today 30,000
In 1990 the Lion population was 2,400 today over 6,000
An adult lion consumes about 1 deer per week
An adult female with cubs can eat 2 fawns a day
and what does this add up to?
In 1990 there where 2,000,000 deer in California today they say there's less than 450,000.To me it's pretty obvious what needs to be done.
Oilcan
In 1990 the Bear population was 15,000 today 30,000
In 1990 the Lion population was 2,400 today over 6,000
An adult lion consumes about 1 deer per week
An adult female with cubs can eat 2 fawns a day
and what does this add up to?
In 1990 there where 2,000,000 deer in California today they say there's less than 450,000.To me it's pretty obvious what needs to be done.
Oilcan
M
Model_70_Guy
Guest
>I'm sure Loss of habitat has
>something to do with it
>but Here's some interesting facts.
>
>In 1990 the Bear population was
>15,000 today 30,000
>In 1990 the Lion population was
>2,400 today over 6,000
>An adult lion consumes about 1
>deer per week
>An adult female with cubs can
>eat 2 fawns a day
>
>and what does this add up
>to?
>In 1990 there where 2,000,000 deer
>in California today they say
>there's less than 450,000.To me
>it's pretty obvious what needs
>to be done.
>
>
>
>
> Oilcan
Let's not forget in addition to the oversize kitties and bears there is a tremendous population of coyotes that enjoy venison as well especially little spotted venison. Lions are out of control and have become a real problem but of course I woudn't think of shooting one... as that would be illegal and the save the lion treehugger folks would get very upset.. and that would be awful.. Yep, We should admire the big pretty kitties that are eating all the deer after all it's nature... right?
>something to do with it
>but Here's some interesting facts.
>
>In 1990 the Bear population was
>15,000 today 30,000
>In 1990 the Lion population was
>2,400 today over 6,000
>An adult lion consumes about 1
>deer per week
>An adult female with cubs can
>eat 2 fawns a day
>
>and what does this add up
>to?
>In 1990 there where 2,000,000 deer
>in California today they say
>there's less than 450,000.To me
>it's pretty obvious what needs
>to be done.
>
>
>
>
> Oilcan
Let's not forget in addition to the oversize kitties and bears there is a tremendous population of coyotes that enjoy venison as well especially little spotted venison. Lions are out of control and have become a real problem but of course I woudn't think of shooting one... as that would be illegal and the save the lion treehugger folks would get very upset.. and that would be awful.. Yep, We should admire the big pretty kitties that are eating all the deer after all it's nature... right?
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-08 AT 05:18PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-08 AT 03:55 PM (MST)
Yep, Thanks for the input guys. Sore subject, i been trying to get something done about it for the past couple years. I sent letters to our fish and game, talked to Biologists and wardens, talked to some suits in Sac, coresponded with the Mt Lion foundation, even sent the below "Letter to the Editor" that was published and distrubuted through out N.Eastern Kali
----- Original Message -----
From: sageadvice
To: Debra Moore, Editor
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:02
Subject
EER vs MOUNTAIN LIONS, letter to editor
"Hello, I am a very concerned and involved, 4th generation, Calif.. hunter and fishermen. My family once owned ranch lands now referred to as the land bank, currently owned by the east bay regional park on Morgan Territory rd., in Contra Costa County. I was a Agriculture major at Livermore high and the University of Arizona where I studied Natural Resource Recreation.
Twenty years ago, I moved to Plumes Co. to further enjoy the outdoor opportunities this area has. I have spent countless hrs in our national forests, private ranch, farm lands, and timber co. holdings. Hunting, fishing, camping, mushrooming, firewood cutting, or simply just to explore for new areas by taking a hike. My family vacationed here near Chester during the 60's and 70's for a month every year. Then, I counted as many as 200 deer on a evening ride to a small lake for some fishing and nowadays may not see a single deer taking the same drive 5 times. The habitat, amount and quality has changed little in this area. The dept. of F & G's blanket statement that the loss of such habitat and the encroachment of man on the deer's environment as the reason for the admitted declining #'s, is insulting and a down right lie. This may be or is a factor, but a small one. Deer thrive close to populated areas. It is in the traditional backwoods habitat, where they co-exist with predators, that are becoming barren of deer. I could go on and on, but I'm limitated by space, looking for someone who cares enough. Enough to take the blinders off and go out on a limb, who knows how, to help make a difference.
We need to better manage our wildlife. We can do this in a big way by lowering the amount of prey animals that depend on deer for their food. The 1970's ban on hunting lions has run it's course, caused their numbers to increase to where I have seen 4 in the last 2 years, while only seeing 1 in the other 40+ yrs in the outdoors. Now, Game Wardens, other hunters, and ranchers agree that there are way too many big cats through out N. eastern Ca. Our deer #'s are getting to the point that deer in some areas may become extinct. It's time or past time to properly manage California's lion population. I don't advocate killing all the lions but we need to balance their # to the point that we have both a healthy deer herd and their predators. Man has this ability. I for one believe it is our duty.
You as a f&g supporter or as a group can support or encourge the people in charge of the wildlife in our state to make the changes nessasary to implement a balanced predator-prey ratio program by contacting our fish and game, state officials and biologists. Objections, yes there will be some, but it absolutely needs to be done It's got to be done, I don't want to be telling my grandson yrs from now about the time when I saw the last deer in these hills."
Well, i did get some people stirred up alright, guess how much actually got done...meetings and more meetings, you guys may even have attended some. End result, no change. They don't want to talk Lions, anything else, fine, they say, they can't do anything about the lions, They said of the vote years ago, "THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKE."
I'm open to suggestions and more than willing to help in getting this matter put right,
Joey
Livetohunt, sorry to hijack your thread, i started a new thread for the purpose of talking deer/predator problems. Joey
Yep, Thanks for the input guys. Sore subject, i been trying to get something done about it for the past couple years. I sent letters to our fish and game, talked to Biologists and wardens, talked to some suits in Sac, coresponded with the Mt Lion foundation, even sent the below "Letter to the Editor" that was published and distrubuted through out N.Eastern Kali
----- Original Message -----
From: sageadvice
To: Debra Moore, Editor
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:02
Subject
EER vs MOUNTAIN LIONS, letter to editor"Hello, I am a very concerned and involved, 4th generation, Calif.. hunter and fishermen. My family once owned ranch lands now referred to as the land bank, currently owned by the east bay regional park on Morgan Territory rd., in Contra Costa County. I was a Agriculture major at Livermore high and the University of Arizona where I studied Natural Resource Recreation.
Twenty years ago, I moved to Plumes Co. to further enjoy the outdoor opportunities this area has. I have spent countless hrs in our national forests, private ranch, farm lands, and timber co. holdings. Hunting, fishing, camping, mushrooming, firewood cutting, or simply just to explore for new areas by taking a hike. My family vacationed here near Chester during the 60's and 70's for a month every year. Then, I counted as many as 200 deer on a evening ride to a small lake for some fishing and nowadays may not see a single deer taking the same drive 5 times. The habitat, amount and quality has changed little in this area. The dept. of F & G's blanket statement that the loss of such habitat and the encroachment of man on the deer's environment as the reason for the admitted declining #'s, is insulting and a down right lie. This may be or is a factor, but a small one. Deer thrive close to populated areas. It is in the traditional backwoods habitat, where they co-exist with predators, that are becoming barren of deer. I could go on and on, but I'm limitated by space, looking for someone who cares enough. Enough to take the blinders off and go out on a limb, who knows how, to help make a difference.
We need to better manage our wildlife. We can do this in a big way by lowering the amount of prey animals that depend on deer for their food. The 1970's ban on hunting lions has run it's course, caused their numbers to increase to where I have seen 4 in the last 2 years, while only seeing 1 in the other 40+ yrs in the outdoors. Now, Game Wardens, other hunters, and ranchers agree that there are way too many big cats through out N. eastern Ca. Our deer #'s are getting to the point that deer in some areas may become extinct. It's time or past time to properly manage California's lion population. I don't advocate killing all the lions but we need to balance their # to the point that we have both a healthy deer herd and their predators. Man has this ability. I for one believe it is our duty.
You as a f&g supporter or as a group can support or encourge the people in charge of the wildlife in our state to make the changes nessasary to implement a balanced predator-prey ratio program by contacting our fish and game, state officials and biologists. Objections, yes there will be some, but it absolutely needs to be done It's got to be done, I don't want to be telling my grandson yrs from now about the time when I saw the last deer in these hills."
Well, i did get some people stirred up alright, guess how much actually got done...meetings and more meetings, you guys may even have attended some. End result, no change. They don't want to talk Lions, anything else, fine, they say, they can't do anything about the lions, They said of the vote years ago, "THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKE."
I'm open to suggestions and more than willing to help in getting this matter put right,
Joey
Livetohunt, sorry to hijack your thread, i started a new thread for the purpose of talking deer/predator problems. Joey
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 32,037
I stopped applying here in Cali when they went to preference points. I figured I was too old to ever draw a good tag in my lifetime. I decided to put my energy and resources into out of state hunts. States that actually try and manage their wildlife. Besides, I've already been drawn twice for pronghorn.
I buy OTC B zone tags every year. That's good enough.
PJ has taken over a lot of habitat in northeastern part of the state, IMO, but I will defer to Joey and others who are more familliar, as it has been a long time. It's hard to get too excited about improving habitat and deer numbers only to feed the cats, bears, and coyotes.
Next year, I may join Model70guy (Jim) in South Dakota!
Good luck to everyone who applied!
Eel
I buy OTC B zone tags every year. That's good enough.
PJ has taken over a lot of habitat in northeastern part of the state, IMO, but I will defer to Joey and others who are more familliar, as it has been a long time. It's hard to get too excited about improving habitat and deer numbers only to feed the cats, bears, and coyotes.
Next year, I may join Model70guy (Jim) in South Dakota!
Good luck to everyone who applied!
Eel
M
Model_70_Guy
Guest
It's hard
>to get too excited about
>improving habitat and deer numbers
>only to feed the cats,
>bears, and coyotes.
>
>Next year, I may join Model70guy
>(Jim) in South Dakota!
>
>Good luck to everyone who applied!
>
>
>Eel
I have to agree with you Steve when I think about the odds of my drawing some of these tags.. I probably don't enough years left on this earth to get drawn for some of the hunts I apply for.
You are more than welcome to join me in South Dakota next year, I can guarantee you will have a good time as the people there are great and the muley hunting is incredible. One more thing
Steve.. throw a shotgun in your bag and we can take a day and shoot some of those S.D. pheasant.
Jim
>to get too excited about
>improving habitat and deer numbers
>only to feed the cats,
>bears, and coyotes.
>
>Next year, I may join Model70guy
>(Jim) in South Dakota!
>
>Good luck to everyone who applied!
>
>
>Eel
I have to agree with you Steve when I think about the odds of my drawing some of these tags.. I probably don't enough years left on this earth to get drawn for some of the hunts I apply for.
You are more than welcome to join me in South Dakota next year, I can guarantee you will have a good time as the people there are great and the muley hunting is incredible. One more thing
Steve.. throw a shotgun in your bag and we can take a day and shoot some of those S.D. pheasant.
Jim
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,077
Eel, you are probably right that PJ encroachment has eliminated some habitat over the last 100 years BUT the deer population has declined tremendously in the last 10-15 years. Why??? PREDATORS!!!!
Nov/Dec chukar hunts the deer are dumb with rut. Jan they are just trying to survive. This is when I'm in the desert. Same time most states count their populations. THERE ARE NO MORE DEER IN NORTHEASTERN KALI!!!!!!!!!! ALL GONE!
Nov/Dec chukar hunts the deer are dumb with rut. Jan they are just trying to survive. This is when I'm in the desert. Same time most states count their populations. THERE ARE NO MORE DEER IN NORTHEASTERN KALI!!!!!!!!!! ALL GONE!
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