What happened to Colorado?

[Founder]

So I just read through everything in the "Colorado Discussion" thread. It sounds like a lot of hunters experienced the same as I during the 3rd and 4th seasons.......fewer deer and fewer bucks and fewer older bucks. So what's up? Were all the deer just hiding really well, or are the herd numbers really down?

IMO, there were less deer in the area I was in while helping others compared to last season when I was hunting. I tried to blame it on my crappy hunting skills, but in the end, I decided I wasn't blind, but there were just less deer....period. Why???? I have no idea. I never heard talk of an above average winter kill last year.

So what do you all think it is? Poor CDOW management, too many bears, bad winters, hunters are too effective at killing? Or, were the deer there but just scattered and not moving? I'm buying that though.

I won't complain too much, because I did get a good one on my early rifle hunt. My experience this year with less deer was in an area I 3rd season hunted last year and helped others in this year during the 3rd and 4th seasons.


We should've seen one like this during that 4th.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
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[ruger1022]

I think it's a combination of everything. We had serious droughts in 2017/18, which wouldn't help the body condition of deer. Then right after a horrible drought we had an above average winter in 2018/2019... I would have a hard time believing there wasn?t significant winter kill going from a serious drought to a tough winter.

On my Colorado early rifle tag we saw bear sign everywhere, and we ran into 2 bears. I also never saw a single fawn the whole trip.

The amount of recreation in Colorado is crazy. There was a study on the elk herds around Vail, and recreation (hiking, biking, ohv, etc) had a negative impact on calf Recruitment. If elk are being affected I'm sure deer are as well.

https://www.gohunt.com/read/news/outdoor-recreation-impacts-elk-near-vail-co#gs.ihjqbz

With all these things going against the animals, it's not hard to imagine less deer on the landscape.

 

[nripepi]

We have all heard that the herds have been decreasing over the last decade. That points to a fawn survival issue = predators, vehicles. winter kill or winter range habitat.

However, it seems like something happened dramatically between 2018 and 2019 with way less deer and mature bucks seen in the same units. This points to winter kill of all deer, deer not in their usual spots (spread out more and at higher elevations) or deer not moving because of warm weather or full moon. I am guessing it is some of each of those three. Winter range deer counts this year will tell us if it was winter kill last year.

We need to figure out how to help fawns survive to adulthood. If we can do that through predator control and habitat enhancement with mild winters, but lots of moisture we will be okay!

 

[elkmo41]

I think I got played by the weather, hunting 3rd season and the weather the week prior convinced me they would be lower. I wasn?t seeing the numbers but enough to keep me in the area, expecting more to show. Then it warmed up, went higher one day w/o anything so it verified what I ?thought? was going on. The units not vulnerable to high winter kill however. Later learned some had tagged in much higher elevation I was hunting, for whatever reason I believe they were unusually dispersed. Was hunting for 180 or better and passed some good bucks just not the one.

 

[Comules]

>We have all heard that the
>herds have been decreasing over
>the last decade. That points
>to a fawn survival issue
>= predators, vehicles. winter
>kill or winter range habitat.
>
>
>However, it seems like something happened
>dramatically between 2018 and 2019
>with way less deer and
>mature bucks seen in the
>same units. This points to
>winter kill of all deer,
>deer not in their usual
>spots (spread out more and
>at higher elevations) or deer
>not moving because of warm
>weather or full moon.
>I am guessing it is
>some of each of those
>three. Winter range deer counts
>this year will tell us
>if it was winter kill
>last year.
>
>We need to figure out how
>to help fawns survive to
>adulthood. If we can do
>that through predator control and
>habitat enhancement with mild winters,
>but lots of moisture we
>will be okay!

As a resident of Colorado I don't put much trust in the CPW winter range deer or the elk counts.
And they don't seem to be interested in predator control either. There was a news article on KJCT news in Grand Junction last night about coyote sitings in the areas around Grand Junction the CPW said a lot of peoples answer was to shoot them, but if people shoot them there would adapt and there would be more coyotes in the area WTF

 

[Comules]

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. (KJCT) - If you live on the outskirts of town, you might have been seeing more uninvited guests in your neighborhood recently.

As cold weather removes a coyote's food sources, residential areas and backyards look better and better to the hungry animal. Coyotes are a danger to cats and dogs and in rare cases, have attacked humans. Some people's first instinct might be to shoot the animal, but CPW has found coyote numbers actually increase when folks try to get rid of them.

?The biggest thing is just trying to create some fear in coyotes, so you want to keep your distance number one but if they do come in your backyard, throw rocks at them, make loud noises, try to put a little fear back into them. It might help to leave porch lights on at night, that kind of thing, because they're a little less likely to come in,? says District Wildlife Manager Bob Morris.

CPW says a lot of advice they give for living with coyotes is similar to the advice for bears: keep your pets indoors and hide possible food sources.

As always, if you're having trouble with wildlife, you can give CPW a call, not 911.

 

[Focoelkman]

Predators (mt. lions are attacking skinny flat-billers, havoc on the deer herd) and vehicles.

 

[Bluehair]

I'll throw in my $.02 but a little context first. My pinpoint POV is in unit 72 (house, 6800ft)and 711 where I have mountain place (9100 ft). Lived here for over 20 years and had the mountain property for over 10. Btw, they have a few cameras on them. Im retired and spend pretty much all day goofing around in the woods or driving my 55 mile commute on gravel forest service roads between the two places. Best job in the world

Anyway, there is no doubt that environmental conditions, whether drought or snow, have had some impact on populations. That said, I haven't seen more sign of winterkill than usual and would note that the snowpack here in the SW accumulated mostly above 7000 ft. The deer and elk can get down low but I would like to hear from the sheep guys what the impact of last winter was way up high. As some said in the other thread, the range looked good this year even dry as it was. Here on the private ground I havent seen any difference in numbers except that I didn't see as many fawns this year. Plenty of food, water, and shelter. CPW cant do anything about this but react.

The predator thing is out of control. Those of you with long memories will recall me having a hissy fit about lions 15 years ago when my wife had a desert tag. Its worse now. Here at the house the biggest predator is swathers and the good ol boys keep the critters pretty much in check, but not so up in the mountains. I have literally seen more lions on my place than branch antlered bulls. There's a couple pictures down in the photo forum where I entertain myself from time to time.. I'm not convinced bears make that big an impact but Im sure they will snatch a newborn if they can, and I agree there are way more than there used to be. Again, no doubt the impact from predators has worsened. CPW could probably do better here, but lets say their hands are tied.

And finally, hunters. Every year we have fewer deer and more and more licenses. The deer are pursued relentlessly for months and its a miracle anything survives to breed the does. Look what it does to the bulls, they don't hardly even call anymore. The pressure on the deer is pretty obvious here on the private ground where everyone tries to go. There are way more hunters than deer, and when the landowners decide enough have been killed they shut it down. They make sure there are enough bucks left to keep the herds going. So I have the good fortune of seeing lots of deer every day.

I think CPW can do much better here. I know 3 of them, 2 law enforcement types and a range habitat person whatever that is. I spend alot more time afield than they do, and someday I hope to meet a biologist. In the meantime, does anyone know if CPW monitors herds and harvests between public and private? I pointed out in another thread that I wonder how much of the harvest in units like 72 is on private. I suspect that the majority is and that the harvest objective keeps going up because of the deer managed by landowners. They don't all have degrees but they can see whats happening.

So after all that bs, I think conditions have been tough for the deer, CPW can't react fast enough, and we end up doing our best to kill the rest. I hope I get a chance to talk to one of the cattlemen who spend lots of time on horseback about what they see.

Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen

 

[Bocephus]

Hahahaha that explains a lot of what's happening in CO. "Dont shoot them, just throw a rock at them. Do the same with bears" Is Bob Morris a member of PETA???

 

[Snoopdogg]

Regarding bears, in California, a recent study https://www.mcbadeer.com/MendoDeerProject_FinalReport2014a - no_gps.pdf showed that bears devastate fawns by not only claiming their fair share of does/fawns, but bully mountain lions off their kills. This means they have to go kill again. That'll put a hurt on the population.

 

[BLOK2003]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-19 AT 02:17PM (MST)[p]I've heard one adult lion will kill one deer a week. Do the math, 52 weeks in a year. Couple lions will realistically kill over a hundred deer a year. We have a lot of lions. I hunt lions with hounds and have for 14 years, also have hunted mule deer my entire life. When predators are thriving in an area they must be managed or you will see the results LESS DEER. In my opinion a lot of the lion quotas could be increased in a lot of the units in Colorado. Whether or not if the Colorado Parks and wildlife agree is another question ???

 

[k22hornet]

Every study on lions I've read, says one-deer-per-lion-per-week.

So, Colorado DOW says we have between 3,000 and 5,000 lions.

Doing my common core arithmetic, it appears that lions will kill between 156,000 and 260,000 deer per year.

Colorado has a deer herd in the mid-350,000 range.

Bear studies have proven they are hard on newborn fawns and elk calves, and Colorado DOW 'thinks' there about 10-12,000 of them here.

Many years ago, a guy said a coyote family moved into game camera range on his camera. He said he counted 18 different fawns being brought home for dinner. This was in Texas, if I recall.

Is it any wonder fawns are scarce?

The newly college educated, biologists have been told predators are not the problem. No, instead, it is humans building in winter and summer ranges.

Has anybody here ever driven through Estes Park, Evergreen, etc. and spotted deer and/or elk walking down the sidewalks? These animals appear to have acclimated to the human landscape pretty well.

 

[fullthrottle]

Predators are the main cause of the mule deer decline, plain and simple. Cats, coyotes, bears, eagles, man. In that order.

 

[The_Coloradoboy]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-19 AT 05:45PM (MST)[p]Simple;
We have done a piss poor job of managing predators (bears and lions)

Too many tags issued each year combined with a a couple hard winters.

Loss of winter range with the mass influx of people immigrating to the state along with build trails all over the place to ride bikes on (Eagle and Gunnison counties)

People are more proficient hunters;
Teams of spotters, long range rifles, trail cameras, the list goes on.

People refusing to eat a tag... Tons of bucks 3 years and younger get whacked each year. This only cripples a struggling herd. The fact is very few bucks actually ever make it to their 4th and 5th birthdays. Even in some of the top mule counties/units.

Just my .02

Coloradoboy

 

[scopenstalk]

>Simple;
>We haha done a piss poor
>job of managing predators (bears
>and lions)
>
>Too many tags issued each year
>combined with a a couple
>hard winters.
>
>Loss of winter range with the
>mass influx of people immigrating
>to the state along with
>build trails all over the
>place to ride bikes on
>(Eagle and Gunnison counties)
>
>People are more proficient hunters;
>Teams of spotters, long range rifles,
>trail cameras, the list goes
>on.
>
>People refusing to eat a tag...
>Tons of bucks 3 years
>and younger get whacked each
>year. This only cripples a
>struggling herd. The fact is
>very few bucks actually ever
>make it to their 4th
>and 5th birthdays. Even in
>some of the top mule
>counties/units.
>
>Just my .02
>
>Coloradoboy


100% Colorado Boy

 

[Comules]

>Hahahaha that explains a lot of
>what's happening in CO. "Dont
>shoot them, just throw a
>rock at them. Do the
>same with bears" Is Bob
>Morris a member of PETA???
>


Bob Morris is the Grand Junction Field Office Wildlife Manager
The way things are going with the wildlife in Western Colorado he and a lot of others in CPW may in fact be members of PETA and also Liberals. LOL

 

[Lawrence]

According to an ex DOW staffer I talked to recently here on the Western Slope, our biologist is from another state that has already banned lion hunting. Apparently he has a real affinity for lions. He also told me the one deer/elk per week story is a myth - at least for big mature toms. They are more prolific deer/elk killers than that. He claimed big toms will not necessarily circle back to a kill - they're more interested in covering ground and will just kill again instead. This guy claimed that the DOW is misleading the public about lions - and the deer populations are needlessly plummeting because of it, and myriad other reasons as well.

I realize someone might point out this is just hearsay. Fair enough.

Personally, I believe the goal of the anti-hunting crowd is to eliminate hunting entirely and replace the mortality caused by hunters with natural predation - wolves, lions, bears, coyotes.

I posted recently on the "Unit 62 Recap" thread about the current state of mule deer as I've observed over the last 8 years on my place here in this Unit. I thought it couldn't get any worse than last year - I was wrong. It's like someone dropped a bomb on this Unit the last couple of weeks - no deer, no rut activity, nothing. Of note, our place is in an area that, in the past, has been used as winter range extensively by both deer and elk. We have hay fields, multiple sources of water, lots of nearby pinyon/juniper cover, etc. There were generally deer on our fields year round. No more.

Houston, we have a problem.

 

[Comules]

People refusing to eat a tag... Tons of bucks 3 years and younger get whacked each year. This only cripples a struggling herd. The fact is very few bucks actually ever make it to their 4th and 5th birthdays. Even in some of the top mule counties/units.

Well I'm not one of these people, I have not hunted deer for 15yrs in Colorado until this year when I hunted gmu 67 4th season, before i went hunting i decided that I would not shoot a buck unless it was bigger than the ones I have mounted and on my wall. I did see some bucks during scouting trips in the summer and early fall but not what I expected to see in gmu 67. I'm not planning on eating my tag but may frame it since it took 15yrs to draw the tag.

 

[Comules]

The Over Abundance of Predators (bears, lions, coyotes and rest of the predators to still be reintroduced into Colorado ) = The end of Hunting in Colorado as we know it.

The Sportsman somehow need to stand up to CPW and say enough already.
I will guarantee you if no hunting tags were sold next year the CPW would be Shi*ing their pants and a lot of people would be losing their jobs in the upper tier of CPW.
But that would never happen

 

[Bluehair]

>Regarding bears, in California, a recent
>study https://www.mcbadeer.com/MendoDeerProject_FinalReport2014a - no_gps.pdf showed that bears
>devastate fawns by not only
>claiming their fair share of
>does/fawns, but bully mountain lions
>off their kills. This means
>they have to go kill
>again. That'll put a hurt
>on the population.

Thanks for the link, I had no idea how much effect the bears have on fawns. Oh, and its 1.07 deer/lion/week. Unless a bear finds the carcass. Good stuff in there.


Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen

 

[Squirrel]

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

Gee whiz, if you want more of them maybe kill less of them?? CRAZY I know. Lead poisoning and the print button, deadlier than any fang claw or blizzard.

 

[BLOK2003]

>

>My current situation precludes me from
>caring about your opinion but
>go ahead and give voice
>to it anyway...
>
>Gee whiz, if you want more
>of them maybe kill less
>of them?? CRAZY I
>know. Lead poisoning and
>the print button, deadlier than
>any fang claw or blizzard.
>


I agree cutting tag #s would definitely help declining deer herds. But disagree predation isn't a huge factor. Just ask any deer hunter from California what happens to there deer hunting since they banned killing lions.

 

[Bluehair]

>Gee whiz, if you want more
>of them maybe kill less
>of them?? CRAZY I
>know. Lead poisoning and
>the print button, deadlier than
>any fang claw or blizzard.
>
Pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks license quotas are determined by a revenue model and not biology ;-). Gotta hand it to them though, they tried slapping a few fees on us. We should be able to afford to let a few more deer live next year.


Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen

 

[Squirrel]

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

A dead deer is a dead deer so every piss in the ocean counts, but in 6 years under a new mgr we have gone from this.

and this

fighting for breeding rights on the same sage flat

to this (his twin anyway) controlling the flat and the fifty doe on it

Now there is no way that 4 legged predation can increase so fast given birth rates, to say nothing about no increase in sightings or sign in the case of kitties.


Yet on a good lookout I saw 30-40 punkins in glass range this year, didn't see any bears or lions. Nor any bucks I might add, least none outside of their ears.

 

[k22hornet]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-19 AT 12:45PM (MST)[p]"Now there is no way that 4 legged predation can increase so fast given birth rates, to say nothing about no increase in sightings or sign in the case of kitties."

If we have a bad winter that reduces the deer herds, having even the same amount of 4 legged predators around would make it more difficult for the deer herd to bounce back, wouldn't it? And in a bad winter, I would guess the predators have an easier time of having deer for dinner.

How many of us covet a 4th season Buck Mule Deer tag, and for similar reasons?

We know predator control helps. GOOGLE the Kaibab Plateau. Removal of huge amounts of large predators caused the deer herd to explode in just a few years, from an estimated 4,000 to 100,000.

This is my 40th year in Colorado, and even with all the time I have spent outdoors in good lion country, I have seen exactly 2 lions, and they were together. November, 2010, just North of Kremmling, while deer hunting.

edit to add: PS, Squirrel, I have always enjoyed your photographs!

 

[The_Coloradoboy]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-19 AT 07:01PM (MST)[p]Just to add injury to insult ol horse tooth illegal outfits another one out of 44 on a gov tag....

Coloradoboy

 

[Critter]

That pic kills me. He probably shot is at 1200 yards.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

How could they kill that buck in 44 after fourth rifle? They changed the rules a couple years ago and they can only hunt the Eastern plains after fourth rifle.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Section B number 4

 

[Squirrel]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-19 AT 02:23PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-19
>AT 12:45?PM (MST)
>
>"Now there is no way that
>4 legged predation can increase
>so fast given birth rates,
>to say nothing about no
>increase in sightings or sign
>in the case of kitties."
>
>
>If we have a bad winter
>that reduces the deer herds,
>having even the same amount
>of 4 legged predators around
>would make it more difficult
>for the deer herd to
>bounce back, wouldn't it? And
>in a bad winter, I
>would guess the predators have
>an easier time of having
>deer for dinner.
>
>How many of us covet a
>4th season Buck Mule Deer
>tag, and for similar reasons?
>
>
>We know predator control helps. GOOGLE
>the Kaibab Plateau. Removal of
>huge amounts of large predators
>caused the deer herd to
>explode in just a few
>years, from an estimated 4,000
>to 100,000.
>
>This is my 40th year in
>Colorado, and even with all
>the time I have spent
>outdoors in good lion country,
>I have seen exactly 2
>lions, and they were together.
>November, 2010, just North of
>Kremmling, while deer hunting.
>
>edit to add: PS, Squirrel, I
>have always enjoyed your photographs!
>

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...



No question that any dead deer reduces the population (and thanks you are welcome I enjoyed taking them) I was blessed/cursed to be there from conception to death of an amazing show. From arguing and fighting with Rob at the meetings to set his sights higher ( I wanted 70/100 post hunt ratio) Of course I was over-ruled.

Then came the lean years when tags were cut enough to accomplish the mission with near instantaneous political pressure to increase tags. People saw big deer and of course wanted to hunt them.

Rob held steady against the pressure and we got what everybody wants, it took 10 years. It could have taken less but that whole "political thing" insisted on a bone now and then, tag #'s crept up, but slowly.

To address your point the randomness of hard winters and predation were not part of this equation, simply limiting tag numbers got us to where 170's were hardly worth breaking out the scope for. Do you realize what people are willing to call a "big " or "mature" deer in many locations?? Pitiful!

Of course there are more details but suffice to say new MGR open floodgates policy and in 4-5 years we went from "Catch 22" and "Harley" top end to this day where a 16" 3x3 has 50 does.

Simply managing tag numbers gave us a 10 year rise, 3-4 years living the dream, then total collapse in 3-4 years immediately following a meeting in which the cpw stated "People just want to shoot two points"

Well... now they get to shoot two points

Officially we have more deer now and higher buck to doe ratios than ever in our counts. It is almost UNBELIEVABLE.


Edit to add that for my entire life I have been told that hard winters go hardest on the huge older bucks, this is absolute BS unless you are talking the ones at the end of their life anyway like the 10-12 age bracket. Those 180 bucks in their prime are tough SOB's able to come out of spring with ribs showing like a picket fence and there they are the next winter chasing hard.

 

[hawkbill]

I agree with squirel, I have been hunting predators for along time, and yes they are on the rise. To me the real problem starts with this new theme inspired by the Meat Eater, everyone should be opportunity hunting. This isn't just happening in Colorado, I had one of Idaho?s best trophy deer units this year and I ate my tag. Yes I turned down a lot of bucks with the best being in the high 180s. This is not what I was looking for, a 4 1/2 deer with potential to get a lot bigger, but these type of deer are huge to other hunters so there shot. To me if these deer can't make it to 51/2 years old nobody gets to see the true potential of what they can become. All the game and fish agencies in the west are pushing tag quotas past the point of return for mature deer. Our game and fish doesn't evan speak of winter kill, but they keep adding tags. I would rather save my money for a good hunt, I have a lot of points in Colorado and really look forward to hunting in Colorado but a 180 class buck is not what I'm looking for in a trophy unit, and I truly could give a ##### about having a opportunity. We are going to have no choice but to go after these agencies as a large group of sportsman. Another big problem is the biologist sitting at his or hers desk looking at there computer model and deciding what's best for everyone.

 

[dhoshauer]

I know the nw part of the state has a major cwd issue. My buddies deer tested positive. We also saw a number of very sick looking deer in archery.

As mentioned, I'm sure tags allocations and predators have helped keep the numbers down as well.

 

[BLOK2003]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-19 AT 10:01AM (MST)[p]Did a little bit of research with the unit that I live in and am familiar with. Got all of the information from the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Statistical data from there website. Counting all combined seasons they sold exactly 1000 buck licenses in this unit in 2019 including Archery, Muzzleloader, Rifle. There harvest data Is pretty much a joke and a guess because it's not mandatory like New Mexico where it's required befor you can apply the following year. Say for example they had a 35% conservative harvest rate this year by hunting not including predators and some winter kill. The lion quota is 9 which was filled and closed by the end of January last year ( so add at least another 450 dead deer ) that's 800 dead deer not including what bears,coyotes, weather, poachers, vehicles kill. Pretty obvious we have major problems with our deer numbers. CPW turns it into an argument instead of addressing the facts.

 

[Comules]

Just got this in a email today

You have been selected to participate in one or more surveys for the Colorado Parks & Wildlife 2019 Big Game Harvest Survey.

Colorado Parks & Wildlife would like to know about your hunting experience in Colorado. Even if you did not hunt or did not harvest, your responses help to estimate wildlife populations and are a very important part of wildlife management in Colorado.

I filled out the survey and there is no way to tell them how the hunt really went.
The email also says that they may call me for more info.

I sure hope they call be because I want to give them a ear full about my hunt that took 15yrs to draw, but i'm sure that what I tell them will just go in one ear and out the other.

In my opinion they need to ask a lot more questions in their surveys about the hunts.

I also think this should be mandatory for hunters to do every year and it would be a way for CPW to compile maybe more real info. But do they really want real info from the hunters ??

 

[AZGuy]

I imagine the deer heard population getting better next year when they push 3rd season into the rut and refuse to reduce tag nunbers. :/

 

[El Gringo]

>I know the nw part of
>the state has a major
>cwd issue. My buddies deer
>tested positive. We also saw
>a number of very sick
>looking deer in archery.
>
> As mentioned, I'm sure
>tags allocations and predators have
>helped keep the numbers down
>as well.


I looked at a few hundred deer in 11/211, during 3rd. I never saw one that looked sick. I did however, see many young bucks die of lead poisoning by the hoards of opportunity hunters.

 

[DESKPOP]

Once they merged with parks it was all over for hunting in Colorado. Its dead and stumbling around it just doesnt know it yet. All the animals and hunters are to the parks is an income source. The root of the problem in Colorado is simple, stupid simple. They sell way too many tags, way to many. They kill too many deer, way too many. That is not going to go away, its not going to get better.

Parks is bottomless pit of money with no end. Hunters will continue to fuel its appetite for $ for the remaining years until hunting Colorado just isnt worth it anymore, then Parks will turn around and blame all the hunters for the lack of animals, hunting will shut down completely, and parks will suddenly find a way to survive on its own by charging 10 times what it currently does for non-consumptive users for every activity under the sun.

Its a clever way to achieve their ultimate goal of eliminating hunting in Colorado. Its like watching a car wreck in slow motion.

 

[Bluehair]

Well, there goes any chance for you to ever draw a moose or sheep tag. LOL. Bullseye btw.

Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen

 

[BeanMan]

>Once they merged with parks it
>was all over for hunting
>in Colorado. Its dead
>and stumbling around it just
>doesnt know it yet.
>All the animals and hunters
>are to the parks is
>an income source. The
>root of the problem in
>Colorado is simple, stupid simple.
> They sell way too
>many tags, way to many.
> They kill too many
>deer, way too many.
>That is not going to
>go away, its not going
>to get better.
>
>Parks is bottomless pit of money
>with no end. Hunters
>will continue to fuel its
>appetite for $ for the
>remaining years until hunting Colorado
>just isnt worth it anymore,
>then Parks will turn around
>and blame all the hunters
>for the lack of animals,
>hunting will shut down completely,
>and parks will suddenly find
>a way to survive on
>its own by charging 10
>times what it currently does
>for non-consumptive users for every
>activity under the sun.
>
>Its a clever way to achieve
>their ultimate goal of eliminating
>hunting in Colorado. Its
>like watching a car wreck
>in slow motion.

The two income streams are seperate.


Hasbean

 

[Bluehair]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-19 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]I have looked a couple of times trying to prove that to myself. No luck yet. I find the fact sheet that says that revenues = expenses and some budget attachment that breaks down funding streams*. While parks was partially funded by the general fund, wildlife was substantially funded by federal $ (pittman robertson I believe). The odd thing is that they seem to measure spending in terms of FTE's. For what its worth, parks cost/fte is higher that wildlife's.

*I acknowledge that all funding streams flow from the taxpayers ultimately

Any chance you have a link to better information? Thanks.

Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen

 

[Bluehair]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-19 AT 05:59AM (MST)[p]I did find this gem in the budget docs. I'm comforted to know that someday my deer season will be brought to me by Fast 'n Friendly Outfitters.

 

[Adventurewriter]

This is what I was going to say...copied the quote from above..when we changed our attitude from lions and bears being vermin to converting our favorite coffee cup or hoody...the math is undeniable...plus lions love loner bucks easier to stalk that a bunch of does

"So, Colorado DOW says we have between 3,000 and 5,000 lions.

Doing my common core arithmetic, it appears that lions will kill between 156,000 and 260,000 deer per year."

 

[Elkduds]

Some of the current research being conducted by CPW: Note that CPW does not report data from ongoing research, because that would alter the findings and render the study inconclusive/invalid.

Study of calk survival/recruitment comparing areas in SW CO to Bear's Ears (NW). This was a pilot study, now expanded to ongoing research.

Ongoing 6 year study of impacts of nonhunting recreation on elk survival/recruitment, comparing a calving area near Aspen to Bear's Ears.

Completed 10 year study of lion predation, Uncompahgre plateau.

3 year study of predation on big game, Piceance area, soon to be completed.

Arkansas drainage. 3 years into a 9 year study on predation of big game species.

A Denver judge recently upheld the findings of a predator study to be used in wildlife management decisions, despite lawsuits against the findings by Wild Earth Guardians.

Also, CPW is legally prohibited from expressing any opinion or judgement about ballot initiates, including wolf reintroduction. CPW and staff cannot endorse or oppose ballot initiatives. Internet research will show that before there was a ballot initiative, CPW Wildlife Commission officially opposed formal reintroduction of wolves.

License revenue increases from 2019 are being spent on wildlife highway migration structures, development of 6 new shooting ranges, development of the new state park on the former Crazy French ranch by Trinidad, and opening several thousand acres of STL lands to public recreation.