What's your opinion?

Founder

Founder

Founder Since 1999
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I was sent this write up criticizing the Wyoming Game and Fish about their communication with sportsmen. Take a read and let's hear your thoughts on not only feeding deer, but also the write up.

trib.com

Dean: Game and Fish causes frustration

Dean writes: This terminology indicates speculation without supporting evidence. It allows the WGFD to influence the public without being held accountable for their statements.
trib.com trib.com
 
I’m not no biologist or G&F employee, but personally IMO deer should be fed, loose there direction to winter grounds ? What good does it do to reach wintering grounds if nothing available to eat? Sounds to me like supplemental feeding can be successful or at least have more survive than not!! Where there’s a will there’s a way , I would think so especially this day and age !!
 
Agencies in ALL states are black-belts in dishing out word salad to defend their actions or lack of actions on almost any issue. At an individual level, there are great biologists, but the wildlife agencies writ large have gotten the memo that informs: We Are Not Accountable To The Public. The end result is that the few remaining people with common sense and memories pull their hair out (but don’t worry, there’s less of those types, and their hair, each year). The rest of the public is usually too young, or dumbed down, or just confused to either notice or act when being lied to. And if public comment does get too loud, climate change or CWD or the “need for more research” will be screamed loud enough to drown it out.
 
In short, I liked the article. It came from a guy that has "earned his stripes" and it also came from his heart. He's not a guy with no experience or who just arrived on the scene. I respect his opinion.

This last winter made me reach back to the previous bad winter in Western Wyoming (Was it 17-18?) . A G&F employee (who I won't name) called me and asked if I could help develop a ration for feeding the deer in Western Wyoming that winter. I laughed and said I could help, but Z and W Mill in Torrington actually already has a deer ration that they developed for WY G&F. In the winter of 22-23 nothing was mentioned about feeding deer and it would surely have helped. The data from Mr. Dean's article verifies that.

What I would really like is for someone in Western WY to find a landowner who winters a fair number of deer on their deeded ground. Then feed those deer as needed or is appropriate. See how they fare in the long run; maybe for a five-year study. Monitor populations, disease, and predation. All the things that G&F says are negatively affected by feeding. I don't think disease will increase enough to offset the gains made in survival and increased fawn production. And predation may actually decrease if the deer are congregated and a predator control program is in place. It's easier to kill those predators if they are in a smaller area. The project would definitely need to be well defined/constructed so we could measure the results. I'd even pony up some $$ to see that get started. Maybe the Wyoming Wildlife Trust is curious enough that they'd support it if the right folks were involved with the proper structure. .

Ranchers supplement theri cattle and sheep when needed. It's not rocket science to know that well-fed critters breed better, produce more viable young and are in general, healthier than animals that are on a reduced nutritional plane.

To close, I'd also say somebody in Western WY should get Daniel Richins to either do some sort of video (YouTube or ??) or give a presentation on his feeding program and what those results have been. Maybe we could "piggyback" on his feeding and get some solid data to have a better understanding of how the supplemental feeding has benefitted or hampered the deer.

I'm not gonna play the "back and forth" game with the guys that don't agree with what I have written. Don't pick apart what I say, just state your opinion in response to Founder's question. These good questions and threads always get derailed by a few folks that want to argue and pick apart other folks. I'm not into that and won't play those games. Just answer Founder's question. If you want to argue and fight, start your own thread. That bickering and self-righteousness is why I don't visit MM nearly as much as I used to; hint, hint Founder.
 
Clarification....nothing was mentioned from G&F about them wanting to feed the deer in Western WY. Feeding was mentioned/supported by many, just not the WY G&F.
 
The first week of December last year we had 14 deer we started feeding. 2 bucks 8 mature doe and 4 fawns. All the deer made it through the winter. We used a feed designed for meat rabbits. It is an alfalfa based feed. We would feed 2 44 oz cups per deer strung out across the yard so all would get some. They would visit long enough to eat and then would move onto the river bottom.

We did this all winter long. Sometimes we wuld miss a couple days and give a little more
Sometimes we ran out for a week.

As mentioned all the made it. In the summer we saw the four doe and they had 7 fawns between the 4 of them. 3 set a twins and a single.

We are not feeding at all this year, I have no doubt that if we had not fed last year at least 2 of the doe and all the fawns would have died. Just a couple miles from our house there were a pile of dead deer and lopes.
 
I'll say this: I have the poorest opinions of the Wy G&F now, than I have ever had. I am not impressed with the direction the administration has taken the Department and what that has done to the folks in the Department that I have supported for many years.

Administration does not want to feed deer, hence the statements made highlighted in the article.
 
Where I live in Utah the fawn mortality last year was 90+%
I fed 200-300 deer a day from early December through end of March. 4 deer died on my place. 1 fawn and three does.
Personally I fed over 20,000 lbs of DWR approved feed.
I spent a lot of money but it was worth every damn penny of it.
Haven't had to feed this year and hopefully I won't.
Deer look very healthy at the moment.
You can't destroy winter range without compromise.
Just my two cents worth!
 
feeding helped last winter survival rates in Cache valley last winter.
Founder is correct.
we need more answers from Wyoming game and fish
 
I can't remember a worse winter in western Wyoming, and I've lived here almost 50 years. Previous bad winters ('78-'79, '83-'84, '92-'93 to name a few), we always had way more deer. So we were able to recover the herds more quickly from a bad winter. We also had a lower predator/prey base than now because of the higher deer numbers (I'm speculating here). Especially eagles.

I think if G&F had started feeding about the same time elks96 did, we could have saved a lot of deer. Not sure about the severity of the winter on his side of the Winds, but I think it was as bad as we had on our side.

ICM and I have chatted about the feed he mentioned in his post. Really, it's kinda asinine to not even try feeding. They're gonna die either way. It's really a bummer to think we could have saved maybe even half those that died. The winter ranges are dead places this year...

Wapitiwilly and elks96 and Daniel Richins are pretty much positive proof that feeding works. Not to mention UDWR. Why not at least try?
 
A similar article was written by the same author in the Casper Star-Tribune on December 7. The author of these articles points out that it is easy for WGF the to sway public opinion on deer feeding, in a negative way, using relatively cheap and easy forms of media. Humans have tremendous impact on mule deer herds and mule deer habitat, so I think there should be a place for deer feeding and other deer management tools if we want to maintain high quality and quantity of deer hunting opportunities.
 
I am surprised there hasn't been more discussion on how few Deer there are on the winter range. Winters are always hard in Star Valley so I have fed them for years. Mostly to keep them off the road. It works very well. Last year there were several who stepped up and fed the Deer. Thats why some hunters still saw some. It's not totally the fault of Game and Fish we as sportsmen didn't force the issue. Its a lot like residents not being willing to cut the resident tags. There where a lot of hunters that wouldn't kill one last year and that was good........
 
ICMDEER said:
In short, I liked the article. It came from a guy that has "earned his stripes" and it also came from his heart. He's not a guy with no experience or who just arrived on the scene. I respect his opinion.

This last winter made me reach back to the previous bad winter in Western Wyoming (Was it 17-18?) . A G&F employee (who I won't name) called me and asked if I could help develop a ration for feeding the deer in Western Wyoming that winter. I laughed and said I could help, but Z and W Mill in Torrington actually already has a deer ration that they developed for WY G&F. In the winter of 22-23 nothing was mentioned about feeding deer and it would surely have helped. The data from Mr. Dean's article verifies that.

What I would really like is for someone in Western WY to find a landowner who winters a fair number of deer on their deeded ground. Then feed those deer as needed or is appropriate. See how they fare in the long run; maybe for a five-year study. Monitor populations, disease, and predation. All the things that G&F says are negatively affected by feeding. I don't think disease will increase enough to offset the gains made in survival and increased fawn production. And predation may actually decrease if the deer are congregated and a predator control program is in place. It's easier to kill those predators if they are in a smaller area. The project would definitely need to be well defined/constructed so we could measure the results. I'd even pony up some $$ to see that get started. Maybe the Wyoming Wildlife Trust is curious enough that they'd support it if the right folks were involved with the proper structure. .

Ranchers supplement theri cattle and sheep when needed. It's not rocket science to know that well-fed critters breed better, produce more viable young and are in general, healthier than animals that are on a reduced nutritional plane.

To close, I'd also say somebody in Western WY should get Daniel Richins to either do some sort of video (YouTube or ??) or give a presentation on his feeding program and what those results have been. Maybe we could "piggyback" on his feeding and get some solid data to have a better understanding of how the supplemental feeding has benefitted or hampered the deer.

I'm not gonna play the "back and forth" game with the guys that don't agree with what I have written. Don't pick apart what I say, just state your opinion in response to Founder's question. These good questions and threads always get derailed by a few folks that want to argue and pick apart other folks. I'm not into that and won't play those games. Just answer Founder's question. If you want to argue and fight, start your own thread. That bickering and self-righteousness is why I don't visit MM nearly as much as I used to; hint, hint Founder.
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So there has already been a pretty comprehensive study done in Northeast Utah on feeding deer. They have collared deer that weren't fed and then collared deer that were fed last winter and other badd winters. So they had a pretty good control group. The study shows the difference in survival rates between the two. Wgfd's argument about how effective it would be to feed is pretty much non-existent after this study. The study proved that there was a Big Time increase in survival for fawns and for adults. It's a pretty good listen I would recommend anybody who's got questions about the deer feeding to give it a listen. I don't think that they should feed every winter. I also don't think that they should feed too early in the winter. My opinion is that they feed on the deers wintering range. That way the deer still migrate to the winter range then are fed there as not to effect migration. I also think that they should only feed on winters like the 17 winter or last winter. Just my two cents.

 
I have more faith in K-mart making a comeback than I do with game and fish making a good choice. The guy said it perfect that game and fish has the media and power to influence the public. That was very well said cause my first thought was just like they do on cwd
 
If anything last year is the year they should have stopped feeding.
I swear, I'm far from a greenie, but "man" has messed so many things up, we are a cancer, we ruin everything we touch, WY included. At some point CWD is going to get so bad, why even bother hunting. Stop the feeding, let nature takes its course and be done with it.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
If anything last year is the year they should have stopped feeding.
I swear, I'm far from a greenie, but "man" has messed so many things up, we are a cancer, we ruin everything we touch, WY included. At some point CWD is going to get so bad, why even bother hunting. Stop the feeding, let nature takes its course and be done with it.
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Great idea! Make sure to give them there winter range back FIRST
 
Danny_Ocean said:
If anything last year is the year they should have stopped feeding.
I swear, I'm far from a greenie, but "man" has messed so many things up, we are a cancer, we ruin everything we touch, WY included. At some point CWD is going to get so bad, why even bother hunting. Stop the feeding, let nature takes its course and be done with it.
Click to expand...
I think you've had enough of their Kool aid
 
Wapitiwilly said:
Where I live in Utah the fawn mortality last year was 90+%
I fed 200-300 deer a day from early December through end of March. 4 deer died on my place. 1 fawn and three does.
Personally I fed over 20,000 lbs of DWR approved feed.
I spent a lot of money but it was worth every damn penny of it.
Haven't had to feed this year and hopefully I won't.
Deer look very healthy at the moment.
You can't destroy winter range without compromise.
Just my two cents worth!
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It must be legal to feed in Utah? Or is it not enforced? does your company build on winter ranges?
 
Yes Sir my company builds on winter range. If we didn’t we would be out of business.
Best to contact the DWR on what is legal or illegal. I am a construction worker not an attorney.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
If anything last year is the year they should have stopped feeding.
I swear, I'm far from a greenie, but "man" has messed so many things up, we are a cancer, we ruin everything we touch, WY included. At some point CWD is going to get so bad, why even bother hunting. Stop the feeding, let nature takes its course and be done with it.
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Haha. Sorry but CWD is a non issue and only used to scare the ignorant and to justify poor management decisions, while liking the pockets of the agency with federal research $$$….

Feeding in many areas is a good thing because we have altered and prevented nature from taking its course. Where exactly would the elk, deer, moose, in Jackson hole go?
 
Wapitiwilly said:
Yes Sir my company builds on winter range. If we didn’t we would be out of business.
Best to contact the DWR on what is legal or illegal. I am a construction worker not an attorney.
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No worries I appreciate what you’re doing! Was just curious is all. Appreciate the transparency.
 
If it is $$$ that is stopping them? Then charge a fee like they do the elk for certain units.

And if the residents push back? Just have the NR pay for it.....just sell more G/H/K tags and tack on a generous fee to buy the feed? 😇🦌🦌🦌🦌
 
Just an FYI for this thread. Gary Fralick, biologist with Wy G&F, sent this email out to those on his mailing list on Dec 14th.



Good Morning

In order to keep you apprised of the wildlife management issues in Wyoming, I am forwarding the following information contained in the links below for your information and review since they have become a matter of public record.

The following links describe several perspectives that appeared in the Wyoming media in November and December 2023 on the supplemental winter elk feeding program in Wyoming. Also provided is a narrative regarding supplemental winter deer feeding and the account of deer feeding in Utah during the 2023 winter.

Thanks for your interest in wildlife management in Wyoming!

ELK FEEDING (WyoFile, December 14, 2023)
https://wyofile.us20.list-manage.co...f54eca217d5f47bda3&id=a3c8d20960&e=2759fb7e05
.
ELK FEEDING AT FOREST PARK AND DELL CR ELK FGSs
1. Jackson Hole News and Guide (December 13, 2023)
https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news...cle_17beae64-986b-11ee-a52c-bbc1a2ce9cea.html

2. WyoFile, (December 14, 2023)
https://wyofile.us20.list-manage.co...f54eca217d5f47bda3&id=910408f515&e=2759fb7e05

DEER FEEDING (Casper Star-Tribune November 30, 2023)
https://trib.com/opinion/column/dea...cle_fe707bfc-8e30-11ee-9c5f-5bb5662de898.html

--
Gary L. Fralick
Wildlife Biologist
Thayne/Big Piney-LaBarge
Wyoming Game and Fish Dept.
P.O. Box 1022
Thayne, WY. 83127
307.883.2998 (H/O)
307.730.2802 (C)
 
SS! said:
It is not legal in many places in WY to feed deer. While legal in the state it is not legal in some cities/counties.
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Yeah like Teton county lol. But that is why we have chickens we are feeding the chickens not the deer.
 
elks96 said:
Yeah like Teton county lol. But that is why we have chickens we are feeding the chickens not the deer.
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Also not legal in Rock Springs. There's a couple others I can't recall off the top of my head. You're new to the state so it takes a bit but be careful making blanket statements. And learn the law where you're at. Ignorance is no excuse, except on hunting forums :D
 
I’m not into the idea of feeding but I would like to point out something.

There’s a few posting on this site and/or who know of other community members that fed deer during the hard winter. I applaud the community effort and beg the question? Is state intervention needed?

Why rely on a lame horse? Seems to me there is enough people in the community who care that have the ability to make a difference. To me that’s more impactful than a lame state agency.

Is the elk feeding managed or sanctioned by the state?
 
elks96 said:
Haha. Sorry but CWD is a non issue and only used to scare the ignorant and to justify poor management decisions, while liking the pockets of the agency with federal research $$$….

Feeding in many areas is a good thing because we have altered and prevented nature from taking its course. Where exactly would the elk, deer, moose, in Jackson hole go?
Click to expand...

elks96 said:
Haha. Sorry but CWD is a non issue and only used to scare the ignorant and to justify poor management decisions, while liking the pockets of the agency with federal research $$$….

Feeding in many areas is a good thing because we have altered and prevented nature from taking its course. Where exactly would the elk, deer, moose, in Jackson hole go?
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Maybe so, but a couple things are certain......

1. It's 100% fatal for the deer or elk.

2. Every area that gets contaminated means less deer in the long run as its spreads.

3. Feeding doesn't help the issue, it's a band-aid, and potentially speeds up the process.

4. I'm not eating a CWD positive deer or elk.

I agree with the federal research comments.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Maybe so, but a couple things are certain......

1. It's 100% fatal for the deer or elk.

2. Every area that gets contaminated means less deer in the long run as its spreads.

3. Feeding doesn't help the issue, it's a band-aid, and potentially speeds up the process.

4. I'm not eating a CWD positive deer or elk.

I agree with the federal research comments.
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Can't be so sure it's 100% fatal when they can't test live specimens
 
Bookhead said:
Can't be so sure it's 100% fatal when they can't test live specimens
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C4532BDC-E38B-4680-B6ED-E8585D0C185D.jpeg
 
Pretty soon I will be horn hunting only, and focusing on bears, antelope, and non CWD states. Heck some states should be touting that. Come to “x state, CWD free”


2k Wy tags for rancid Contaminated meat, come ye, come all.


Feeding so they can live one more year and then spread disease they encountered in the barnyard….., sounds like a solid plan.
 
Bookhead said:
Do your own research don't just listen to state agency's. I have done allot of my own. Deer farmers have hired their own scientists to study cwd and their results don't line up with what allot of these states say.
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Bingo. Thats why that video of uncle Ted us good to listen to. Talks about farms having deer survive for years with cwd.

Colorado proved culling didn't work. Wyoming's answer was the same but thank goodness was shut down.

I have spoken directly to the biologist and they Raise hell when cwd comes in but yet no deer die but when EHD wipe out the whitetails it's crickets. They want to pretend they care about the deer herd but pick and choose the disease. Clearly shows its money. They get more federal grants for research.

By the way when I discuss with game and fish where all these sick deer are I am suppose to get a phone call to see for my own eyes. Over a year later still no call. Hmmmmm???

When my grandpa had his farm which is a cwd hot spot never once found a dead cwd deer. Would find a dead buck or 2 that got shot and came and died on the proptery or a fawn that died at birth. Proptery held a solid 40 deer. All our harvest deer tested hot. Goof healthy deer. Game and fish always say ohhh it just got cwd. So sick of their bull **** lines. I quit submitting test. Even though my grandpa sold the proptery I still get access and watch the deer very close.

Few months ago the local paper had game and fish on a cwd article. Testing increased a lot and postive cases went up slightly but yet they claim over a 20 percent increase. I crunched the numbers and came up with less than 1 percent.

I will continue not to worry about cwd. We got much bigger issues
 
And saying you'd rather eat a bear then a deer with cwd is pretty wild bears have way more nasty stuff then deer do. Pay attention next time you skin one parasites every where.
 
nfh said:
Bingo. Thats why that video of uncle Ted us good to listen to. Talks about farms having deer survive for years with cwd.

Colorado proved culling didn't work. Wyoming's answer was the same but thank goodness was shut down.

I have spoken directly to the biologist and they Raise hell when cwd comes in but yet no deer die but when EHD wipe out the whitetails it's crickets. They want to pretend they care about the deer herd but pick and choose the disease. Clearly shows its money. They get more federal grants for research.

By the way when I discuss with game and fish where all these sick deer are I am suppose to get a phone call to see for my own eyes. Over a year later still no call. Hmmmmm???

When my grandpa had his farm which is a cwd hot spot never once found a dead cwd deer. Would find a dead buck or 2 that got shot and came and died on the proptery or a fawn that died at birth. Proptery held a solid 40 deer. All our harvest deer tested hot. Goof healthy deer. Game and fish always say ohhh it just got cwd. So sick of their bull **** lines. I quit submitting test. Even though my grandpa sold the proptery I still get access and watch the deer very close.

Few months ago the local paper had game and fish on a cwd article. Testing increased a lot and postive cases went up slightly but yet they claim over a 20 percent increase. I crunched the numbers and came up with less than 1 percent.

I will continue not to worry about cwd. We got much bigger issues
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Minor detail - the culling isn’t complete in CO yet. I haven’t seen the final objective of the culling program, but it appears that it will end when all the deer are dead.
 
I was once told do sum thing weather its right or wrong its better than doing nothing at all... The deer where going to die if WG&F did nothing so they let them die... Then there was hard decisions to make weather to extremally cut tags shorten seasons or even close sum areas... We will see what happens this year if any thing
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Maybe so, but a couple things are certain......

1. It's 100% fatal for the deer or elk.

2. Every area that gets contaminated means less deer in the long run as its spreads.

3. Feeding doesn't help the issue, it's a band-aid, and potentially speeds up the process.

4. I'm not eating a CWD positive deer or elk.

I agree with the federal research comments.
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A few arguments... We can not prove it is 100% fatal. There is all sorts of data showing certain genes are resistant. In the 90s we killed and tested literally thousands of deer in the epicenter of the Ft Collins outbreak. The infection rates never exceeded 10% and for the most part areas were all less than 10%. In most natural settings the infection rates rarely exceed 3%. So even if it is 100% fatal and kills every deer infected, we are still talking about only 3% of the entire herd. It is a lot like the COVID bs... Every year there are perfectly healthy looking animals that test positive, however those test are almost always performed on animals already dead. 36,000,000 deer, 1,000,000 elk a 1,000,000 moose. We cant say that all of them ill die if infected. In many cases the only things decreasing the herd is the response to CWD. I could go into great detail about how the biologist are fudging the numbers to fit their agenda.

Beyond just the genetic resistance, is it not possible that CWD has been affecting deer for ever? I mean seriously it was not until the 90s we even started testing for it. Less that 20 years ago the vast majority game and fish departments did not even know how to test for the disease, let alone have sampling system. It is funny however that if you graph both the known infections with the amount of testing the curves look very similar. Basically we find it if we look for it... I am certain man has been eating CWD infected deer for 60 years and still no one has gotten CWD. Heck the disease has not even made the jump from the deer to pronghorn(yet, but I bet it will)... CWD was detected in some Colorado units as early as 2004, the deer numbers in those units we growing for the years prior to detection. Then for the years 2002-2007 the deer numbers were trending up. Older age class bucks, solid hunting etc. Then 07/08 winter hit and the numbers dipped. The managers at the time reduced tag allocations and the herd again grew... The point is despite having known CWD the area saw an increase in deer population... That was until the manager changed the herd objective and went on a killing spree...

Sorry but we don't know enough to say anything for certain. Other than the Game and Fish reaction to CWD is far more lethal than CWD.
 
Bluehair said:
Minor detail - the culling isn’t complete in CO yet. I haven’t seen the final objective of the culling program, but it appears that it will end when all the deer are dead.
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Which culling are you speaking about? The Ft Collins Area cull was done in the late 90s. We literally killed thousands and thousands of deer. I worked with the DOW at the time and did necropsy on heads. The infection rates before, during and now some 20 years later appear to be statically the same the only difference is there are a couple thousand less deer.

One thing really interesting about Colorado is they know and have data showing that some areas are hotspots but other areas have none. There was collar data near meeker that showed a really high % of CWD deer in the area all summered in the same canyon. It was like 75-80% of the positives came from this one area. Instead of figuring out why? What was going on they made the entire unit a CWD and destroyed all the deer in the unit. Could it be that deer in the south end of the unit were resistant? Could it be that the 4-5 deer in the hot spot area all shared the exact same water hole? Maybe they were all related? Maybe the soild were different in the 2 areas? None of those questions factored into the decision to kill em all... But they are all very important questions.

When it comes to feeding... Humic acid(soil acids) levels appear to have a major impact on the CWD prion. While most people think that the ELK Refuge and the other feed areas are going to lead to disaster, there is also a unique opportunity to see localized soil treatments can stop/eliminate or negate infection rates. There is huge opportunity for this to be tested... One feed area gets a treatment the other does not....

The point, we don't know enough about CWD. We have no real idea what does and does not work. We are learning new stuff all the time. We have some great opportunities, but the only way we can realize those opportunities is to challenge the "experts" to question and force the issue.... Sadly when you press, usually you get a personnel attack/response. You get told the experts, say, the data shows, but when you poke holes in the data. When you really question the experts, they can answer the questions.

Fremont County WY last year or year before. We were told that the deer had a 20% plus infection rate. It was horror and everything was going to die. So the response has been kill all the deer. When pressed on the data. The mule deer rates were 20%, white tail rates at the time were under 10%. Then further when questioning the the game and fish, they were able to track like 80% of that 20% infection rate to a few square miles in the unit. SO outside of like 2 ranches they had an average infection rate below 5%. Add in the 2 ranches and that infection rate quadrupled. Instead of finding out why the deer in this 4 square miles area were having such high infection rates, the answer was unit wide destruction of the herd, both white tail and mule deer. 2 years later there are hardly any deer left and the game and fish claims it was all CWD when in all honesty it was the excessive harvest.
 
This is a stupid debate. feeding any animal will result in higher survival than starving.

The key is always to feed them before it's too late. once they pass the point of no return feeding will finish them off and that's what people are mistakenly blaming for their death. all the game & fish departments know this as well as anyone they're just being disingenuous because they don't want to fund feeding programs.

If you want proof feeding works come look at my haystacks if we ever get any snow.
 
nfh said:
Bingo. Thats why that video of uncle Ted us good to listen to. Talks about farms having deer survive for years with cwd.

Colorado proved culling didn't work. Wyoming's answer was the same but thank goodness was shut down.

I have spoken directly to the biologist and they Raise hell when cwd comes in but yet no deer die but when EHD wipe out the whitetails it's crickets. They want to pretend they care about the deer herd but pick and choose the disease. Clearly shows its money. They get more federal grants for research.

By the way when I discuss with game and fish where all these sick deer are I am suppose to get a phone call to see for my own eyes. Over a year later still no call. Hmmmmm???

When my grandpa had his farm which is a cwd hot spot never once found a dead cwd deer. Would find a dead buck or 2 that got shot and came and died on the proptery or a fawn that died at birth. Proptery held a solid 40 deer. All our harvest deer tested hot. Goof healthy deer. Game and fish always say ohhh it just got cwd. So sick of their bull **** lines. I quit submitting test. Even though my grandpa sold the proptery I still get access and watch the deer very close.

Few months ago the local paper had game and fish on a cwd article. Testing increased a lot and postive cases went up slightly but yet they claim over a 20 percent increase. I crunched the numbers and came up with less than 1 percent.

I will continue not to worry about cwd. We got much bigger issues
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I have seen a total of 3 deer with CWD and one elk. That is from over 20 years working on the issue and hunting etc. Does it kill some? Yes, but not they like claim. Management of CWD is far more lethal than CWD.
 
elks96 said:
I have seen a total of 3 deer with CWD and one elk. That is from over 20 years working on the issue and hunting etc. Does it kill some? Yes, but not they like claim. Management of CWD is far more lethal than CWD.
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Well I can tell you it’s alive and well in CO. Fact, 5 bucks have been killed and tested in eastern CO on the property I know and hunt. Of those five all, not one, all, came pack CWD positive over the last few years. The LO told me he’s done and just ordered a predator call.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Well I can tell you it’s alive and well in CO. Fact, 5 bucks have been killed and tested in eastern CO on the property I know and hunt. Of those five all, not one, all, came pack CWD positive over the last few years. The LO told me he’s done and just ordered a predator call.
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No one said it's gone. Are you even reading what people are saying?
 
Bookhead said:
No one said it's gone. Are you even reading what people are saying?
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Did you see the post above? Maybe you’re reading, but comprehending is a little off?

“have seen a total of 3 deer with CWD and one elk. That is from over 20 years working on the issue and hunting etc. ”

He’s Making it sound like it’s rare with those comments when it’s not in many areas in CO.

As I said, I don’t agree with extermination as was done in CO, but without a doubt feeding causes more problems than it’s worth these days. My opinion of course.
 
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Togwotee said:
This is a stupid debate. feeding any animal will result in higher survival than starving.

The key is always to feed them before it's too late. once they pass the point of no return feeding will finish them off and that's what people are mistakenly blaming for their death. all the game & fish departments know this as well as anyone they're just being disingenuous because they don't want to fund feeding programs.

If you want proof feeding works come look at my haystacks if we ever get any snow.
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Thanks Togwotee you nailed it🙌🏻
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Well I can tell you it’s alive and well in CO. Fact, 5 bucks have been killed and tested in eastern CO on the property I know and hunt. Of those five all, not one, all, came pack CWD positive over the last few years. The LO told me he’s done and just ordered a predator call.
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Yeah, maybe 5 deer that were sick were killed and tested. You're making way more of this than what reality is, but whatever.
 
Public opinion of WYGFD is at an all time low. From the GF employees that I know, Morale is also rock bottom

Gov. Gordon has made some pretty boneheaded appoints, such as Sec. of Education Schroeder and GF Head Nesvik
 
Cause of death, arrows. Shortly after test results confirm that deer had CWD……. Next step, bring said meat to the trash as I’m not driving back where it came from.



Maybe I should put a post up “free quartered up CWD + deer meat” on Craigslist and here MM for any and all takers.


Three things I avoid in life…….

People with stinky breath, stinky POoTAng, and CWD infested meat.
 
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Danny_Ocean said:
Cause of death, arrows. Shortly after test results confirm that deer had CWD……. Next step, bring said meat to the trash as I’m not driving back where it came from.



Maybe I should put a post up “free quartered up CWD + deer meat” on Craigslist and here MM for any and all takers.


Three things I avoid in life…….

People with stinky breath, stinky POoTAng, and CWD infested meat.
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So you have gotten every deer you've ever killed tested?
 
Rubber gloves are cool no matter of disease- they keep those hands from drying out. Blood-soaked hands really get chapped!
 
Danny Ocean, apologies for piling on but... Why are you guys killing the deer that have CWD? I'm guessing it's that you can't tell what deer have it (until tested), or that they all have it? If they all have it, how are there any deer to shoot on the property?
 
Jgill19 said:
Danny Ocean, apologies for piling on but... Why are you guys killing the deer that have CWD? I'm guessing it's that you can't tell what deer have it (until tested), or that they all have it? If they all have it, how are there any deer to shoot on the property?
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It’s new to me. I’ve been hunting this place for many years, never gave CWD a thought. You can’t tell. The bucks are impressive, but the infection rate is off the charts. Imagine 5 or so bucks all testing positve, yet the other 4 or 5 on top that, that weren't tested, and we’re consumed? No more hermano!
 
Danny_Ocean said:
It’s new to me. I’ve been hunting this place for many years, never gave CWD a thought. You can’t tell. The bucks are impressive, but the infection rate is off the charts. Imagine 5 or so bucks all testing positve, yet the other 4 or 5 on top that, that weren't tested, and we’re consumed? No more hermano!
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Guess you're done hunting it then if you won't hunt anywhere there is cwd huh? Stop wanton waste if your not gonna eat what you kill.
 
Bookhead said:
Guess you're done hunting it then if you won't hunt anywhere there is cwd huh? Stop wanton waste if you’re not gonna eat what you kill.
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What am I wasting? You’re killing deer that are essentially on death row. Arrow gets them when I’m hunting, or a coyote when they’re spinning in circles? I’d say the arrow is a better death vs eaten alive.. I’ll continue to hunt that area and simply test the deer killed.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
What am I wasting? You’re killing deer that are essentially on death row. Arrow gets them when I’m hunting, or a coyote when they’re spinning in circles? I’d say the arrow is a better death vs eaten alive.. I’ll continue to hunt that area and simply test the deer killed.
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Not eating deer you kill. Quit hunting that area if you're scared of cwd
 
Bookhead said:
Not eating deer you kill. Quit hunting that area if you're scared of cwd
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Why? The test tells me if it’s table worthy or not. It’s liking wading through a pool of fat chicks for the girl that has a human looking body.


I’ll let you deal with the Oreo eaters, I’ll take the healthy ones.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Why? The test tells me if it’s table worthy or not. It’s liking wading through a pool of fat chicks for the girl that has a human looking body.


I’ll let you deal with the Oreo eaters, I’ll take the healthy ones.
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DO- I think the point is that someone else might want an opportunity for the deer, even if you do not value it. And since you waste the meat, it's not fair to others who would otherwise eat it. Considering you are batting a 1000 on positives, and you will throw the next one out too, it's pretty obvious.

And to head off the argument they are on private property- 1) deer with CWD propagate too- and the fawns are just fine, and they may or may not "stay" on the property- and 2) unless the LO owns a 1000 square miles, those deer likely could be off the LO property at some points. So killing deer and tossing them just rubs wrong to me.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
This flew right over my head. I don't know what you're referring to.
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Tests results from a deer a family member killed this year showed reactive. I found the wording interesting. The G&F didn't use the term positive or negative. I think it's because a deer can have low levels of the prion that a test wouldn't pick up. You can test every deer you shoot, and only eat non-reactive deer, but that doesn't mean you're eating a non-CWD deer.
 
Southpawshooter said:
Tests results from a deer a family member killed this year showed reactive. I found the wording interesting. The G&F didn't use the term positive or negative. I think it's because a deer can have low levels of the prion that a test wouldn't pick up. You can test every deer you shoot, and only eat non-reactive deer, but that doesn't mean you're eating a non-CWD deer.
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What I am seeing is "Detected" or "Not Detected"
 
More of what i was getting at is he's not eating them if they aren't tested and that is wanton waste they have to test positive to throw the meat away you can't just throw it away because you didn't get it tested
 
Bookhead said:
More of what i was getting at is he's not eating them if they aren't tested and that is wanton waste they have to test positive to throw the meat away you can't just throw it away because you didn't get it tested
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You’re getting pretty close to crossing the line of accusing someone of wanton waste. Sorry “Brah” Big difference between tossing infected deer vs deer that do NOT have CWD. Check yourself!
 
Simply lost in translation. Meaning I’m not eating anything that isn’t tested any longer.


As I posted above

“Imagine 5 or so bucks all testing positve, yet the other 4 or 5 on top that, that weren't tested, and we’re consumed? No more hermano!”

Meaning I most likely consumed a CWD+ deer based on the history of this place. Simply put, I will be avoiding that in the future by testing. Why would t you?
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Simply lost in translation. Meaning I’m not eating anything that isn’t tested any longer.


As I posted above

“Imagine 5 or so bucks all testing positve, yet the other 4 or 5 on top that, that weren't tested, and we’re consumed? No more hermano!”

Meaning I most likely consumed a CWD+ deer based on the history of this place. Simply put, I will be avoiding that in the future by testing. Why would t you?
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It still tastes good and doesn’t smell any different. Never shot a zombie looking deer though
 
Ok, what if guys who just wanted to kill **** but not eat it were able to donate their deer to feed wolves?

Damn, the wolfies are gunna love this.
 

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