In your opinion who has the best point system, and why? I think Nevada has the best system, as everyone has some chance of drawing a tag, and the longer you apply the better your odds get. I think the worst point system is Colorado. The only reason I say that is if your just becoming legal age to start applying your odds of drawing one of there premium tags is doubtful, at best during your lifetime. So lets hear your thoughts.
Who has the best point system?
- Thread starter hangfire
- Start date
P
Prism
Guest
Nevada
idahonative
Active Member
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- 307
Agree with BuzzH. The best points system is no points system, by far. Points systems don't magically create more animals to kill. All they do is guarantee that more people will be forced to put in "to keep up", thus decreasing the overall chance of drawing due to increased applicants.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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- 10,444
New Mexico and Idaho get my votes.
Robb
Robb
The best was probably Nevadas before they started squaring points, one extra number in the hat for every year you apply and didn't draw, simple and fair. Utahs isn't bad, Wyomings point system is the worst, as its weighted too heavily for those with maximum points. Colorados works well for deer as there are enough tags to spread things out, and I like to know more about what your chances are to draw. The worst are NM, Idaho, and General resident Wyoming, because you will find lots of discontent among applicants, and some people just giving up on hunting because they have such poor luck, its just a gamble whether you will get to hunt or not.
No point system has the edge for treating all applicants equally.
If you need a system, Utah's Bonus system is good, as is increases your random tag odds based on point level.
They're all different, learn them and draw tags or don't bother and complain.
If you need a system, Utah's Bonus system is good, as is increases your random tag odds based on point level.
They're all different, learn them and draw tags or don't bother and complain.
treedagain
Long Time Member
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Nevada has been good to me, Ut as well....WORST??? IDAHO, put in for the same tag for about 15 years....best odds were 50-50 worst about 30%....drew 1 tag....that sucks, with any kind of points/bonus system i would have drawn 4 or 5 more...New Mexico is a close 2nd...Colorado is nice because at least you know within a yr or so when you will draw
El_Matador
Active Member
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- 359
Utah has the worst, I'll start with that. You have poor odds of drawing a tag randomly because only 1/2 of the tags are dispersed that way. And it takes forever to build enough points because again, only 1/2 the tags are going to max point holders. A straight random draw or a preference point draw would be much better!
I like the idea of a random draw for residents with tiered waiting periods based on the demand for permits in each unit. Preference points work best for non-resident drawings in my opinion because they are not abused as much by entering relatives into the drawing.
I like the idea of a random draw for residents with tiered waiting periods based on the demand for permits in each unit. Preference points work best for non-resident drawings in my opinion because they are not abused as much by entering relatives into the drawing.
+1 for NO POINTS. Random year to year make all decisions based on this year's rules and personal situation is way better than a expensive point scheme that is designed to rake in and trap more SUCKA's and lock out the late commers like a Ponzi scheme...
buglinbilly
Very Active Member
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Since some states do have a point system, I like Utah's the best. Other than that, the way Utah has allowed outsiders to manage their wildlife into oblivian sucks!
Have a good one. BB
Have a good one. BB
wileywapati
Very Active Member
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Get rid of point systems and the entitlements will end as well
2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
treedagain
Long Time Member
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brdhunter....actually it is GREAT to be me....as i look around my trophy room PRETTY GREAT...here is a "thought" for you, post your opinion of the question of the post and keep your personal attack to yourself...
I figured 90% would say Nevada, Why? Do you just repeat it cuz thats what you heard, or do you actually apply there?
I personally think its the worst one going, it never guarantee's you anything. Utah's 50/50 split is as fair as it gets.
I would like to agree with the no point system being the best, but i'm going on 0-18 in Idaho (thats years, not apps) and around 0-6 in NM.
I personally think its the worst one going, it never guarantee's you anything. Utah's 50/50 split is as fair as it gets.
I would like to agree with the no point system being the best, but i'm going on 0-18 in Idaho (thats years, not apps) and around 0-6 in NM.
Looks like the no-point system have it again. For the people that have to have a point system,then i say apply to the states that have it,and donate youre time and money to them. I can't wait that long,and have found if i actually go and reserch the area with a general tag i can usually have a qaulity experience. If trophys and EGOS are your'e thing then your'e missing out of what HUNTING is about. Some guys are never satisfied,and there are plenty of sad stories to prove it!
treedagain
Long Time Member
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"If trophys and EGOS are your'e thing then your'e missing out of what HUNTING is about"
i am not going camping, i am going HUNTING, i spend alot of time researching my hunts and want to take a mature animal, not sit around the fire and sing koombiya and roasting marshmellows
i am not going camping, i am going HUNTING, i spend alot of time researching my hunts and want to take a mature animal, not sit around the fire and sing koombiya and roasting marshmellows
sagebrush
Very Active Member
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- 1,584
I think NV is the best and AZ is next. I like the chance to draw every year. Remember, NV squares your points and gives you a random number for each point plus your application. The longer you are unsuccessful, the greater your chance to draw and you still have a chance no matter how few your points. AZ is the same in the random draw without squaring your points.
The no point system in NM would be fine if a non-resident had a chance at more than 6% of the tags. I don't mind spending $65 on a hunting license to support Game & Fish, I just wish I had a reasonable chance at a tag.
The no point system in NM would be fine if a non-resident had a chance at more than 6% of the tags. I don't mind spending $65 on a hunting license to support Game & Fish, I just wish I had a reasonable chance at a tag.
E
Elitehoghunter
Guest
man I cant believe people actually even consider nevada as the top choice as nobody is guarrantied anything. Shoot some people are sitting on 18 points watching people with 0-3 points draw? Thats just messed up. Colorado has the best then probably Wyoming as I think the person that puts the most time in gets rewarded. Nevada is terrible!
theox
Very Active Member
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utahs simplybecause the guys in line the longest get better odds with the bonus tags. and also because anyone has a shot at drawing. i drew wasatch moose with 1 pt , and archery elk with 3. its still a chance at drawing reguardless of your pts. i dont know if i like nevadas squaring it kinda sucks but i would say comes in second, and colo sucks because guys just getting started have no chance at a premium tag. new mex and idaho suck because the you get no return for your app fees.
Zim
Very Active Member
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- 2,292
>Utah has the worst, I'll start
>with that. You have
>poor odds of drawing a
>tag randomly because only 1/2
>of the tags are dispersed
>that way. And it
>takes forever to build enough
>points because again, only 1/2
>the tags are going to
>max point holders. A
>straight random draw or a
>preference point draw would be
>much better!
>
>I like the idea of a
>random draw for residents with
>tiered waiting periods based on
>the demand for permits in
>each unit. Preference points
>work best for non-resident drawings
>in my opinion because they
>are not abused as much
>by entering relatives into the
>drawing.
And you forgot to mention, when you finally get your tag within reach, SFW makes another auction/raffle grab and adds 5 years to your wait. While some fat cat is out there with your tag.
>with that. You have
>poor odds of drawing a
>tag randomly because only 1/2
>of the tags are dispersed
>that way. And it
>takes forever to build enough
>points because again, only 1/2
>the tags are going to
>max point holders. A
>straight random draw or a
>preference point draw would be
>much better!
>
>I like the idea of a
>random draw for residents with
>tiered waiting periods based on
>the demand for permits in
>each unit. Preference points
>work best for non-resident drawings
>in my opinion because they
>are not abused as much
>by entering relatives into the
>drawing.
And you forgot to mention, when you finally get your tag within reach, SFW makes another auction/raffle grab and adds 5 years to your wait. While some fat cat is out there with your tag.
Buckhunter1
Active Member
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- 569
Arizona and Colorado, get in line and wait your turn for the best they have to offer. I can always go to Idaho and maybe find a spike in a general over crowded unit.
llamapacker
Moderator
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- 1,068
Idaho system is best. No points! The only truly equitable way of distributing a limited resource is through a truly random drawing.
Nevada is the next best system, with simple bonus points squared. Yes, nothing is guaranteed in this system, nor should it be gauranteed. Applying for several years should not gaurantee anyone a tag. Compete with the applicants each year, and take your chances.
For every sob story about 0 for never, there is the flip side of people drawing year after year. And even the unlucky SOB may start drawing repeatedly. Odds do tend to even out over time.
The entire concept of a points system is BUYING influence or paying to move to the front of the line. It is fundamentally wrong, especially when you can truly buy most tags at auction, etc. The whole influence peddling mindset behind a points system is leading us off the proverbial cliff.
Bill
Nevada is the next best system, with simple bonus points squared. Yes, nothing is guaranteed in this system, nor should it be gauranteed. Applying for several years should not gaurantee anyone a tag. Compete with the applicants each year, and take your chances.
For every sob story about 0 for never, there is the flip side of people drawing year after year. And even the unlucky SOB may start drawing repeatedly. Odds do tend to even out over time.
The entire concept of a points system is BUYING influence or paying to move to the front of the line. It is fundamentally wrong, especially when you can truly buy most tags at auction, etc. The whole influence peddling mindset behind a points system is leading us off the proverbial cliff.
Bill
bologney- The reason they started point systems is to do away with blind luck and give people who aren't lucky a better chance of drawing a tag after applying for years and years. I admit the idea has become corrupt, especially in states like Wyoming where its obviously a money making scheme, but if a state is going to take your money anyway, I see nothing wrong with giving those unlucky people a better chance at drawing a tag by at least putting their ticket back in the hat for next year. The fact that some lucky people draw every year, and other unlucky people don't draw for twenty years is the reason point systems were started.
S
springbear
Guest
I can't say it any better than this! great answer Lammapacker.
>Idaho system is best. No points!
>The only truly equitable way
>of distributing a limited resource
>is through a truly random
>drawing.
>Nevada is the next best system,
>with simple bonus points squared.
>Yes, nothing is guaranteed in
>this system, nor should it
>be gauranteed. Applying for several
>years should not gaurantee anyone
>a tag. Compete with the
>applicants each year, and take
>your chances.
>For every sob story about 0
>for never, there is the
>flip side of people drawing
>year after year. And even
>the unlucky SOB may start
>drawing repeatedly. Odds do tend
>to even out over time.
>
>
>The entire concept of a points
>system is BUYING influence or
>paying to move to the
>front of the line. It
>is fundamentally wrong, especially when
>you can truly buy most
>tags at auction, etc. The
>whole influence peddling mindset behind
>a points system is leading
>us off the proverbial cliff.
>
>Bill
>Idaho system is best. No points!
>The only truly equitable way
>of distributing a limited resource
>is through a truly random
>drawing.
>Nevada is the next best system,
>with simple bonus points squared.
>Yes, nothing is guaranteed in
>this system, nor should it
>be gauranteed. Applying for several
>years should not gaurantee anyone
>a tag. Compete with the
>applicants each year, and take
>your chances.
>For every sob story about 0
>for never, there is the
>flip side of people drawing
>year after year. And even
>the unlucky SOB may start
>drawing repeatedly. Odds do tend
>to even out over time.
>
>
>The entire concept of a points
>system is BUYING influence or
>paying to move to the
>front of the line. It
>is fundamentally wrong, especially when
>you can truly buy most
>tags at auction, etc. The
>whole influence peddling mindset behind
>a points system is leading
>us off the proverbial cliff.
>
>Bill
Every state has its pro's and con's to the system. Got to look past the points, method of draw, the picks, etc. Im not complaining mearing stating a fact. Idaho has a good system with no points however I dislike one aspect. I put in for California Bighorns. So I cant do some other species as thats the one I picked. OK, I can live with that. The Cal. bighorns, they dont even tell you which units the tags will be issued in. Purely random on when the draw takes place. Been many times I put in for a unit that does not even get a tag.
I personally like NV system. Its been great to me. Cant beat the squared system as its as fair as it gets. Gives advantage to the guy whos been in the system the longest, yet doest deny the "kid" to get started either as theres a chance he or she can still draw. I go about ever other year deer hunting to NV, even drew a good elk tag too. I like the fact they go through your 4 or 5 choices before moving to the next application. Then the next state you look at only looks at your first choice before going to the next choice. Im looking forward that Montana has upgraded to this squared system too.
For the most part its a money grab, in general most states make you pay somekind of fee to apply weather you draw or dont draw with or with out points. Weather its a application fee or having to buy that states hunting lic in order to apply, etc etc.
Its sad that hunting is becoming what it is where money is the issue but understandable that the states have to generate money to manage its resources. Want to play got to pay.
I personally like NV system. Its been great to me. Cant beat the squared system as its as fair as it gets. Gives advantage to the guy whos been in the system the longest, yet doest deny the "kid" to get started either as theres a chance he or she can still draw. I go about ever other year deer hunting to NV, even drew a good elk tag too. I like the fact they go through your 4 or 5 choices before moving to the next application. Then the next state you look at only looks at your first choice before going to the next choice. Im looking forward that Montana has upgraded to this squared system too.
For the most part its a money grab, in general most states make you pay somekind of fee to apply weather you draw or dont draw with or with out points. Weather its a application fee or having to buy that states hunting lic in order to apply, etc etc.
Its sad that hunting is becoming what it is where money is the issue but understandable that the states have to generate money to manage its resources. Want to play got to pay.
sticksender
Active Member
- Messages
- 998
Idaho's lack of a point system deters thousands of NR, improving odds for those who do apply. The requirement to choose between elk/deer or an OIL species, as well as limiting us to one OIL species app per year, are the best features.
I still apply in Utah, but they destroyed NR odds for guys wanting a PARTICULAR species, by opening up the NR OIL apps to all species.
Nevada???....I'll keep applying there too, but remember, they don't just square YOUR points, they square EVERYONE's points. The squaring won't help you draw a tag when there are still 700 other guys in your point pool.
In the end I guess it doesn't really matter what state has the "best" system. If you want a premium quality elk or deer or pronghorn hunt, or need a Mt Goat, Sheep, Moose, or Wild Bison hunt, you'd best apply in EVERY state that offers the tags, regardless of the plus/minuses of their draw schemes.
As NR in most states, we can't tell their GFD's how to run their draws. So we either play the game as they offer it and hope they'll toss us a crumb or two someday, or accept the alternative to hang around home and hunt squirrels.
I still apply in Utah, but they destroyed NR odds for guys wanting a PARTICULAR species, by opening up the NR OIL apps to all species.
Nevada???....I'll keep applying there too, but remember, they don't just square YOUR points, they square EVERYONE's points. The squaring won't help you draw a tag when there are still 700 other guys in your point pool.
In the end I guess it doesn't really matter what state has the "best" system. If you want a premium quality elk or deer or pronghorn hunt, or need a Mt Goat, Sheep, Moose, or Wild Bison hunt, you'd best apply in EVERY state that offers the tags, regardless of the plus/minuses of their draw schemes.
As NR in most states, we can't tell their GFD's how to run their draws. So we either play the game as they offer it and hope they'll toss us a crumb or two someday, or accept the alternative to hang around home and hunt squirrels.
1FastGambler
Active Member
- Messages
- 982
>I can't say it any better
>than this! great answer Lammapacker.
>
>
>>Idaho system is best. No points!
>>The only truly equitable way
>>of distributing a limited resource
>>is through a truly random
>>drawing.
>>Nevada is the next best system,
>>with simple bonus points squared.
>>Yes, nothing is guaranteed in
>>this system, nor should it
>>be gauranteed. Applying for several
>>years should not gaurantee anyone
>>a tag. Compete with the
>>applicants each year, and take
>>your chances.
>>For every sob story about 0
>>for never, there is the
>>flip side of people drawing
>>year after year. And even
>>the unlucky SOB may start
>>drawing repeatedly. Odds do tend
>>to even out over time.
>>
>>
>>The entire concept of a points
>>system is BUYING influence or
>>paying to move to the
>>front of the line. It
>>is fundamentally wrong, especially when
>>you can truly buy most
>>tags at auction, etc. The
>>whole influence peddling mindset behind
>>a points system is leading
>>us off the proverbial cliff.
>>
>>Bill
____________________________________________________
+1!
Very well put.
>than this! great answer Lammapacker.
>
>
>>Idaho system is best. No points!
>>The only truly equitable way
>>of distributing a limited resource
>>is through a truly random
>>drawing.
>>Nevada is the next best system,
>>with simple bonus points squared.
>>Yes, nothing is guaranteed in
>>this system, nor should it
>>be gauranteed. Applying for several
>>years should not gaurantee anyone
>>a tag. Compete with the
>>applicants each year, and take
>>your chances.
>>For every sob story about 0
>>for never, there is the
>>flip side of people drawing
>>year after year. And even
>>the unlucky SOB may start
>>drawing repeatedly. Odds do tend
>>to even out over time.
>>
>>
>>The entire concept of a points
>>system is BUYING influence or
>>paying to move to the
>>front of the line. It
>>is fundamentally wrong, especially when
>>you can truly buy most
>>tags at auction, etc. The
>>whole influence peddling mindset behind
>>a points system is leading
>>us off the proverbial cliff.
>>
>>Bill
____________________________________________________
+1!
Very well put.
M
MTSHEDHEDZ
Guest
Regardless of the state the guys with max points should be drawn before anyone else,then they should have a 5 year wait to apply again for a premium LE tag.
mevertsen
Very Active Member
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- 1,274
>Regardless of the state the guys
>with max points should be
>drawn before anyone else,then they
>should have a 5 year
>wait to apply again for
>a premium LE tag.
That works fine if there are enough tags to actually get through everyone in a reasonable amount of time. For example, there were 9 resident mountain goat tags last year for Nevada, and 84 max point holders who applied. At this rate, if only max point holders got tags, then it would be around 10 years just to get through the top point holders. There were 4096 people who applied over all. Even if the average number of goat tags was 20 per year, and no one else applied, it would take 200 years to get through everyone right now.
I like the fact that I still have a shot with my 6 points at being in the running for a tag. It really boils down to getting lucking and getting a low number.
Marcial
>with max points should be
>drawn before anyone else,then they
>should have a 5 year
>wait to apply again for
>a premium LE tag.
That works fine if there are enough tags to actually get through everyone in a reasonable amount of time. For example, there were 9 resident mountain goat tags last year for Nevada, and 84 max point holders who applied. At this rate, if only max point holders got tags, then it would be around 10 years just to get through the top point holders. There were 4096 people who applied over all. Even if the average number of goat tags was 20 per year, and no one else applied, it would take 200 years to get through everyone right now.
I like the fact that I still have a shot with my 6 points at being in the running for a tag. It really boils down to getting lucking and getting a low number.
Marcial
Tomichi
Active Member
- Messages
- 639
Come on Guys The COLO sheep, moose, and goat weighted point system is great!
Every 15 to 20 years or so take all of us old guys back to 0 points.
Then draw each applicant a random number. Then reverse that random number to get a new number. Then draw little kid blocks with numbers on them. And change your random number that has become a reversed number to become a new number corresponding with the numbers drawn with the blocks with the numbers.
Then divide the random number that was changed to a reversed number that was then changed by drawn numbers that are drawn to change numbers by the number of weighted points you have? to get
The actual number that will be used to be,( your number) that will be used in the drawing. The lowest drawn number will be the number to get a tag... Got that?
It's great.
Every 15 to 20 years or so take all of us old guys back to 0 points.
Then draw each applicant a random number. Then reverse that random number to get a new number. Then draw little kid blocks with numbers on them. And change your random number that has become a reversed number to become a new number corresponding with the numbers drawn with the blocks with the numbers.
Then divide the random number that was changed to a reversed number that was then changed by drawn numbers that are drawn to change numbers by the number of weighted points you have? to get
The actual number that will be used to be,( your number) that will be used in the drawing. The lowest drawn number will be the number to get a tag... Got that?
It's great.
idaho system all the way. i'm an idahoan and one of the "unlucky" type that rarely ever draws, but i wouldnt want it any other way. i've said this before in a different thread relating to point systems, and its the truth.
to give an advantage to one hunter, means a disadvantage to another....point systems in a nutshell.
random draw is the only way. BUT, i wouldnt be opposed to a two year waiting period.
to give an advantage to one hunter, means a disadvantage to another....point systems in a nutshell.
random draw is the only way. BUT, i wouldnt be opposed to a two year waiting period.
Outdoors
Member
- Messages
- 11
No points is best in conjunction with a waiting period that is decided by the number of applicants that applied for the tag you drew divided by the number of tags in that unit. If 200 applied for 2 tags in your unit then you wait for 100 years (sheep). If 30 applied for 10 tags in your unit then you wait for 3 years (pronghorn).
delmag1942
Active Member
- Messages
- 806
Wyoming period, and I apply in them all!!!
Most years can hunt antelope, deer, and elk on respectable 2nd choice tags and get a preference point for each species for a premier unit!
Most years can hunt antelope, deer, and elk on respectable 2nd choice tags and get a preference point for each species for a premier unit!
2
264X300
Guest
TOM
Just after the kid block came in you forgot to add up all the numbers on the block and cube them.
Just saying.
264
Just after the kid block came in you forgot to add up all the numbers on the block and cube them.
Just saying.
264
Huntmaster
Active Member
- Messages
- 291
Iowa. And the let you party hunt.
DoeNob
Active Member
- Messages
- 930
I know no one here except me applies for the limited entry hunts in Texas but I kind of like how they do it here. Every year you don't draw you get a point, every point you have is an extra time your name gets in the hat. Gives everyone a fair chance, but those with the most points the best odds.
Twoshooter
Active Member
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- 270
I think it all depends. I think it has alot with how fast you can rotate through the pool. Coloarado is great for deer in my opinion, but that same system seems to really suck when it comes to elk. I like Utah and Nevada too. Idaho only works because they only let you put in for one on the moose, sheep, and goat.
One thing I like about a point system is it makes it harder for "that guy". You know the one. The one that when things were straight random would always draw the tag, and when the waiting period was over would get it again right away. I never seem to be the lucky guy.
One thing I like about a point system is it makes it harder for "that guy". You know the one. The one that when things were straight random would always draw the tag, and when the waiting period was over would get it again right away. I never seem to be the lucky guy.
