Why do we have to wait until the end of May?

[dillon]

I am still not sure why the state is putting off the release of draw odds until the end of May. It seems to me a little counter productive when it comes to credit cards, because we apply like four months before they charge our cards, and anything can happen in four months. I can wear out a card in four months. However, it may be better because they can assess the winter kill and other information collected in the early spring.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Daxter]

I think they should run the draws as soon as the deadline closes and have all the hunters who applied for each hunt listed in the order that they drew. The next day after the wildlife board set final permit numbers (May 6th I think this year) they should send out email and let folks know what they drew.

They could even do the whole draw before final permit numbers were set. They could tell everyone what number they are for their hunt choices and then post the range of successful numbers on the website the day after the board votes how many permits for which unit. For example, "Book Cliffs LE deer muzzleloader resident applicants assigned the numbers 1-108 have successfully drawn a tag".

With having to plan vacation time etc. there is no reason to make people wait any longer than they have to. I wish they would do this differently.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

 

[PleaseDear]

I see why they do it so late with the winter counts ect----

BUT----

I agree with Dax that they could do the draw and then match-up the tags/drawn number and release the results on may 6th/7th...

Or simply change the appl dates to April....

Robb

 

[never_catch]

Last year I got my email on April 29th...wasn't it supposed to be later in May last year too and we just found out early?? I'm willing to bet we'll all know results by the first week of May...

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~

 

[dillon]

April 30th last year

 

[travishunter3006]

They wait for winter counts... hahahha

Like utah DNR would take into consideration the number of animals anyway.

They all go out to dinner on our dollar, pull numbers out of a hat and figure the number off of how many new trucks they want this year and how many mustache combs they need.



It was a big bodied 2 point.

 

[justamacguy]

Don't worry about the DWR using current data. Their hunts are figured on a 3 year average of data. So if you have a bad winter this year and lose lots of fawns it will not get calculated into the computer model till the next season... Brilliant management!!

In the olden days the agency used to do spring range rides, meet with the BLM and Forest Service, have public meetings, assemble all that information using pencil, paper and calculator by June and publish a proclamation. Now they have computers and instant electronic communication and they claim there isn't enough time to assimilate the date even if they start in January... go figure.

 

[hossblur]

My question was always why Fallon, Nevada? Seems wrong to me that Utah taxpayers/hunters send money to Nevada. Is their really no one in state that can do the drawing? But I agree with other posts. At my job they track us all day, they have instant confirmations, and the system can change and adapt instantly. I find it hard to believe that as they are "doing counts"(counting the numbers on the side of the highway and multiplying by 10,000) to determine deer numbers that it can't be entered into a data base, along with all the other counts and within a number of minutes you could have results. I guarantee that Walmart could do inventory of every product in every store and every warehouse in a matter of days, not months. If any other buisness took that long to do inventory they would not be in buisness. There is no reason for it to take this long, other than that they can take this long and if you don't like it what are you going to do? Perhaps we should get those boys in Fallon to do our counts, it would most likely be more accurate and done in a WAY shorter time frame.

 

[grizzly]

Rumor is that Utah DWR was feeding tags to their own fish cops and biologists, when they were busted they sent the account to Nevada to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Any truth to that?

Grizzly

 

[cannonball]

Very, very true and at one time not even the DWR employees could put in for some of the draws. Nothing was proved, but there was a real stink to it.

Maybe the reason for the delay is so they can take their suspects(those who they don't want to have a tag), who drew, off of the list.

Pleasedear wrote match numbers to names. The computer does all that for them. We shouldn't have to wait for more than a couple of weeks after the draw unless they wait to adjust numbers of tags for certain units.

 

[Amy]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-11 AT 04:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-11 AT 04:26?PM (MST)

From dillon: ?Why do we have to wait until the end of May??

The May 31 date allows us to factor the most recent data into recommending permit numbers. Data from the 2010 season (postseason buck-to-doe ratios, tooth-age data and harvest statistics) has helped to shape our recommendations for 2011. The Wildlife Board will set final permit numbers for both big game and antlerless hunts on May 5.


From justamacguy: "So if you have a bad winter this year and lose lots of fawns it will not get calculated into the computer model till the next season..."

Actually, we've been monitoring winter weather on a weekly basis on our deer units since December 1. We look at snow depth, temperature, availability of browse and a number of other factors. The overall severity of the winter?and any resulting deer loss?does factor into our permit recommendations.


From justamacguy: "In the olden days the agency used to do spring range rides?"

We are actually doing range rides/assessments in all five regions this spring. Some have already occurred, and many have been scheduled. Interested members of the public are welcome to ride along. I recommend contacting your regional office if you're interested.

From hossblur: "My question was always why Fallon, Nevada?"

From grizzly: "Rumor is that Utah DWR was feeding tags to their own fish cops and biologists, when they were busted they sent the account to Nevada to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Any truth to that?

Nope. Only a few U.S. companies have the expertise and infrastructure to run hunt drawings. We put our contract out for bid (which we're required to do by state law). A number of companies were in the mix, and the contractor in Fallon won the bid. It's as simple as that.

Amy Canning
Communications Specialist
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources

 

[grizzly]

Amy, thank you for standing up and answering criticism. I appreciate it. And it helps to know you're listening.
Grizzly

 

[cannonball]

Amy wrote "Nope. Only a few U.S. companies have the expertise and infrastructure to run hunt drawings. We put our contract out for bid (which we're required to do by state law). A number of companies were in the mix, and the contractor in Fallon won the bid. It's as simple as that"

That's only part of the story. There was an incident with one of the main people in the DWR office who drew a couple of tags with overwhelming odds. At that time Utah was handling their own draws and there was such an outcry by the public that they (the DWR)forbid DWR employees from putting in for the draw. A few years after that they went of state for the draws, after which the DWR employees could then apply again.

 

[stillhunterman]

You may be right or you may be wrong CB, doesn't really matter to me. I'll just go with what Amy said instead of internet innuendo.

 

[littlebighorn]

Amy,
Thanks for the response and clarification. It is tough to work for the public, and regularly hear criticism that is often based on rumor or misinformation. I, for one, appreciate the hard work of the DWR and their honest efforts to look out for wildlife.
I too am curious why an additional months wait this year? Most of us are impatient, even when the answer is "unsuccessful". Perhaps you can respond to that question.
Thanks

 

[cannonball]

Stillman it was fact and there wasn't any internet at that time. As to any any illicid act on his part I cannot say, but the outcry by the public was actual. Ask any of the old time DWR employees who couldn't put in for the draw. They will remember.

 

[grizzly]

I personally know a USU Wildlife Biologist that drew multiple tags in successive years and even he will admit it was because of his personal relationships with DWR.

I don't know all the backstory, but his advantage ended years ago.

Grizzly

 

[hossblur]

Amy, fair enough. I guess now the follow up to my question would be how often does this contract come up for bid? With a 7.5% unemployment rate in Utah, and a huge chunk of the Utah county tech sector jobless, I would find it hard to believe that an instate company wouldn't jump at a contract like this. We already fund the Idaho school system with our lotto money, seems sad to fund Nevadas with our hunting money.

 

[bpatterson]

Sounds to me like you boys all missed a great opportunity. Amy is inviting you on a ride along. Who wouldn't want to take a girl up on that offer? A girl, a truck, a back county road....shame on you good morman boys for not seeing that one.

The Fallon boys also do the drawing for Nevada. By NV state statute passed recently they must post the results of the draw within 48 hrs of the drawing. This is the "unofficial" results until all cc funds can be comfirmed. NV found that there were less than 10 folks who's cc kicked them out of the application each year so why make everyone wait on results for the actions of a few. If EVERYONE would use a computer and stop sending in paper applications the process could be even quicker. But all those paper pushers slow things down to have their data imput into the system.

Thank you Utah for sending some money to NV....BTW unemployement here is far greater than your 7.5% try close to 14% for the Vegas area.

 

[Amy]

From littlebighorn: I too am curious why an additional months wait this year? Most of us are impatient, even when the answer is "unsuccessful". Perhaps you can respond to that question.

We don't run the drawing until after the permit numbers have been set, and this year, the Wildlife Board will set them on May 5. In years past, the Board has set the numbers the previous December.

From cannonball: Stillman it was fact and there wasn't any internet at that time. As to any any illicid act on his part I cannot say, but the outcry by the public was actual.

I don't know anything about this personally (I've only been with the DWR for about four years), but if it was before the Internet, then it was 15?20 years ago. At that time, I believe we published lists of who drew which permits (before privacy laws went into effect). And I can easily see how there would be complaints, even if DWR employees drew only once in a while. Everyone would know who they were. Things have changed a lot in the intervening years: The drawing is done by computer in Nevada, not by hand in Utah; hunters have access to a lot more information via the Internet; and the DWR workforce has turned over hugely. (About one-third of us joined the agency in just the past five years.)

From hossblur: I guess now the follow up to my question would be how often does this contract come up for bid?

I believe it's a 10-year contract, and we're about five or six years into it. You're welcome to call our Salt Lake Office if you'd like to see the statement of work and learn more about what we require the contractor to do.

From bpatterson: Amy is inviting you on a ride along. Who wouldn't want to take a girl up on that offer?

And when you're riding along with the biologists, I'll still be here at my computer working on the guidebooks and Web stuff. ;-)

 

[NVdrhntr]

Daxter,
If I understand your first post right, you would have them complete the draw, list everyone in order of draw number, let them know what their draw number was, then after quotas are set, announce which hunters by number were successful? ex. 1 -108 are successful in the draw.
ok, conspiracy theory here.
taking your example, if wildlife board knew who had what draw numbers before quotas were set, what if a quota setting offical knew his friend or family member had the 109th number (using your example) don't you think they just might increase the quota by one to accomodate?
I live in Fallon and last year attended the drawing for Nevada at Systems consultants. Thought it would be very interesting and would get to see howit works. It was interesting to have them explain the process, but you can't see a thing. They press a button on their laptop that all the data is entered into and the laptop computer does the draw and when it's over, maybe an hour later, they say ok the draws over. Kind of anticlimatic.