Wildliefe Board Meeting

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-08 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]Well where to start, first off. Archer's will be picking their region. And they just voted on the statewide spike hunting that was approved also.

The RAC's and the public are against statewide spike and are for keeping statewide archery. Yet Mr. Keele Johnson has a problem with those and he threw a fit about those two issues. He even suggested that we contact Colorado and try to get them to push spike hunting in Colorado.

This proves that the system is broke, the Wildlife Board is to vote on issue's based off what the public and RAC have said. Yet they do not. They do what they want, or what they feel would be in the best interest of sportsman's.

We as SPORTSMAN's need to unit and contact the media, the capital and Huntsman, and tell them that we will not stand for it anymore.

A person from Blanding should not be allowed to tell me how to enjoy the outdoor's, based off his belief's and feeling's. It should be based off how the general public feel's.

AND THAT IS NOT HAPPENING!!!!!!
 
The WB IS NOT DOING WHAT THEY WERE PUT THERE TO DO. The system is broke, what is the point of it if the board is going to do what they want?
The majority spoke, including the RACs, the public, and most all of the oganization groups, yet things still went the way of the WB!
Your animals are being managed by a few people with thier own agendas. When things like this pass through- it shows they care nothing about want we want.
On the hand of the archers picking a region, there was absolutly no facts or evidence for which the decision was based on. Is this how we want our animals managed? Cause they are!

Utfireman hit it spot on- this will continue to happen unless we make some changes, fight the system as a group of sportsmen.
My fire does not come from one of the propasals, but more from the fact of there is no system- we as Utah hunters have NO voice.
Contact the organization or the groups you may belong to, voice your concerns to them, email the board members- politly demand an explanation, email the govener- show facts of how public imput has been ignored in a system designed for public imput.
 
I sat next to utfireman at the Board Meeting. It is embarrassing to hear the questions asked by OUR big game board. One of the questions asked by a board member was, "who sets the overall cap on deer licenses"?

The process is broken, Yes, I wanted statewide archery to remain. It should have remained based on the input from the RAC process. 3 of the 5 RAC's voted and approved to have statewide archery stay in place, and if anything, create a committee to make a proposal for next year. Well, the big game board ignored all of that and voted just how the wanted.

The statewide spike elk hunt is a joke as a proposal.. But it passed as well.

-Kevin
 
I'll eat some crow on the statewide spike deal. I never thought it'd pass.

Sounds like the board has a mind of its own...

I think the system needs an overhaul.
 
I too was at the meeting and spoke out against the spike hunt and the statewide archery hunt switching to a choose your weapon. With overwhelming support of both archery groups, several conservation groups, and the majority of hunters that attended the various RAC meetings, the Wildlife Board has failed us again. It is pathetic how "bought" these WB members are. They have a very clear agenda that will always take precedence over the general public's desires and wishes. I for one will be sending a very pointed e-mail to the WB after my blood pressure comes back into check.

It amazed me how clueless these WB members were to the Proposals. They routinely had to be reminded what the topic was and what the rules were. Maybe it is time for a younger group of representatives.

Does anyone know who or whom the WB answers too?
 
>Has the southern rifle been extended?

9 day hunt.

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
How about the cap on spike tags? Did it increase or stay the same?

Wonder how many adventurous souls will whacking spikes on Dutton next fall ;-)

Maybe it'll pull some pressure off of the Wasatch:)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-08 AT 05:33PM (MST)[p]I thought the increase wanted was 17,000 spike tags?

What's this going to do to other hunt dates, aren't they going to be shuffled around now?

Going to make things intersting with spike archery elk hunters ontop of the LE hunters. The spike muzzleloader elk hunt will end just prior to the LE late hunt.

Glad I got it over with...
 
The wildlife board didn't go against what every hunter wanted. They just went against the most vocal the Bowhunters. I am happy to hear that the are going to make the bowhunters choose their region just like everybody else. I would rather see a spike hunt than continue killing 50 bulls and 300 cows on the Southwest Desert. If the spike hunt takes the place of the cow hunts then that is a step in the right direction in my opinion. It is about time the WB listened to the Southern Region and put the rifle hunt back to nine days. Last year the Southern RAC wanted nine days and the WB listened to the other RACS and made the hunt 5 days. I may be in the minority on here, but I still like the decisions.
 
BRAG WTF are you talking about???? The Southern and SoEast RACs recommended overwhelmingly that the 5 day hunt stay in place!!! The Public spoke out against spike hunting!!!

Sure Bowhunters were vocal what the hell do you expect???
If we were not you'd be on here spouting that we are all lazy slobs and you know it!!!

Face the facts the Wildlife Board didn't fulfill it's mandate in representing what is best for wildlife and the wishes of the majority of sportsman!!!

This was nothing more than a sham driven by personal agenda's!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-08 AT 06:24PM (MST)[p]Just wondering if they brought up anything about increasing the number of deer units. I heard a rumor they were going to divide up the five general units to twenty five.
Also, I am a big bowhunter and I'm glad they did away with the state wide deer hunt. Less presure in the southern/southeastern region.

I go to the rac's down south but they don't cover this stuff.
 
Wiley,
The Southern Region RAC voted to go back to 9 days this year and last. I don't know about the SE RAC
 
Bragabit wrote: The wildlife board didn't go against what every hunter wanted.

Amen to that!!

The Southern Region was getting hit way too heavy on the archery hunt. Archers have become to efficient at taking animals. One of our surrounding states has also come to that conclusion, and are talking about cutting back on the archery season.
 
Brag that is an exact 180 from what I have heard for the past several years. remember when the DWR did the study that showed the 5 day didn't make one bit of difference?? There were several people that spoke today that wanted to stay with the 5 day hunt. The DWR has pushed for the 9 day hunt for several years and the southern RACs always vote them down.

Brine the numbers show that archers take 12% of all total deer harvested!!! Not my numbers the states!!! Why in the hell would rifle guys have a problem with that??? They take about 72%
if they could push more people in to other means of take is this not better for them as well???

Way to shoot yourselves in the foot
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-08 AT 08:04PM (MST)[p]There is over 11,000 rifle hunter on the Southeastern unit, yet for some reason there is not an issue of over crowding. Yet for some reason 8,000 archer's is now an over crowding. So please please explain to me how 11,000 on a mtn is ok but 8,000 is not?

The problem today was not so much what happened to archery hunter's. But it show that the WB will do what ever they want, regardless to what the public and RAC want.
 
Gents,

If I understand the system correctly, and someone correct me if I am wrong, these board members are appointed by the Governor. If that is correct, maybe some e-mails to Gov Huntsman voicing our displeasure with how the board is performing may do more to correct the problem than even a bunch of groups making a proposal. They obviously didn't listen to the groups today.

I was there myself and was very disappointed with how the statewide spike vote went. Lee Howard was the only one that seemed to care what the RAC's and public thought. One of the things that bothers me the most is that Mr. Johnson was voicing his concern about all the mature 5 point bulls that no one that drew a limited entry permit wanted. Then he votes to do nothing about it by approving the spike only hunt.

I am certainly one that is frustrated by their actions.

Jon
 
You guys keep claiming the wildlife board went against all of the RACS and the "groups". I wasn't at the meeting, but the Southern region RAC voted exactly as the WB did on the Statewide archery, spike hunt and 9 day deer hunt. Just because the overwhelming opinion today was against some of these proposals doesn't mean that the majority of hunters are against them. I belive the WB followed pretty close to the recommendation of the DWR. IN my opinion they are the one that the board should be following, not some "group" with an agenda.
 
Well I am a Dedicated Hunter and so are alot of my friends, guess we will be changing regions from Northern to Southern so we can claim a tag plus a new 9 day hunt on the rifle that will be nice. I dare to say alot of the DH will be taking Sothern permits this year to bad for those down south that only rifle hunt more than likely no tags for you!!
 
Bragabit don't worry your not alone on your views. I'm glad that the statewide archery is done away with maybe it will give us a few more bucks to shoot at down here in the south.the only guys that don't like that idea is the northern utards that think so. utah is their playground, and glad that they will be killing more bulls(spikes) it is not going to hurt the herds of elk at all. For a long time the Boulder unit was open bull and there wasn't a six point elk to be found. However since they limited the number of tags and made it a LE & spike unit they have killed almost as many 400+ bulls every year just as any other LE elk unit. Trust me guys the spike hunts won't effect hardly a thing Do you realize who hunts spike elk? most spike hunters want to go drink beer and drive the roads till one runs across the road infront of them. The bull cow ratios in this state are out of wack and it needs to be brought back in line only by killing less cows and a few more bulls(spikes) will that happen because no matter how hard some of you want to try two 400+ bulls can't breed to make more elk it just isn't going to happen.

---------------------------------------
"you can't fix stupid"
 
So does anyone know if anything changed with the point system or group applications?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-08 AT 09:32PM (MST)[p]My smart mouth comment got nuked. So here is how I feel the WB should have their reasons for the votes they make on the front page of every newspaper in Utah then they will think a little bit longer and harder about their vote so as not to be ridiculed by sportsmen across the state. Since only the people that are involved enough or have enough time to get to every meeting know wich way they are voting. They will continue to get lobbied by those with silver tongues and fat pockets. I for one have thin pockets and would love to see these board members stand in front of hundreds of archers, Muzzleloaders, riflemen. anyone that loves utah wildlife and cares about it's future and answer our concerns.!!!!! Just my opinion


Bucks and bulls may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
 
Theoretically speaking-Since the majority of Utah?s population is in the northern part of the state, couldn't northern region residents sweep a lot of the southern region archery deer tags and southern region dedicated hunter tags leaving southern Utah residents out of the first part of the archery hunt in their own backyards?
 
Prism, you are right. But then they couldn't go home on the weekdays and hunt their backyards after work each night.
What happens during the extended hunt. Can anybody hunt it or just Northern Region hunters?
 
I don't know. I'm guessing that the extended region will be open to everyone starting 9/1. Till then guys will have to have Central or Northern tags I guess???
 
Brag,

If you were at the Southern RAC then you would have really known that the Southern RAC voted to put the vote back on the Wildlife Board.

That being said, 3 out of the 5 RAC's voted to keep the statewide archery. Yet the board didn't care what the RAC and public wanted.

Your not getting the point of people's frustration, it is not so much about the us losing something. It's about the Wildlife Board not doing what they are suppose to, and that's listen to and vote upon issue's reagarding the input from the public and the rac's.

Also I am still waiting on an answer about this over crowding issue....
 
Well, since the news said that every state agency is gonna see a 7% cut in $$$, I'm gonna take a wild guess that the spike tags were increased to 17,000.

I wonder how many more antlerless tags will have to be issued next year "to protect the winter range?"

It's gonna take a bunch of critters to make up 7%.
 
So what else happened???
-Point system?
-CWMUs?
-DH rule?

They screwed us on Statewide Archery and spike hunting, did they rub it in by messing with the point system???
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 10:08AM (MST)[p]I'm also interested to see how the point system went. Can anyone give a few more details.

I'm with some of the other guys on the southern issue. I dont think that the guys complaining about the crowded bow hunt are going to be happy with what they've done. When they start to have to put in for their unit and dont draw that will suck for them. They can be happy though knowing that they have kept those dang northerners out of "their" unit. If we could only find a way to keep the southern zoo from comming up the the FW extended...........
 
One of the problems that I can see facing us now is to get hunters NOT to buy these spike tags that they are going to have available. If the tags get sold then the Wildlife board will say "See we told you that the people wanted this"

So the big question is, how do we now show them that we didn't want it. If all the tags go unsold and they dont get the money from the sales then they will really see that we didn't want it.

But how do we keep people or convince them not to buy the tags?


Jeff
 
Sounds like they didn't raise spike tags to 17,000, but it did get raised. WHEW!

Must not have done much with our general deer? Big surprise!
 
>I don't know. I'm guessing that
>the extended region will be
>open to everyone starting 9/1.
>Till then guys will have
>to have Central or Northern
>tags I guess???

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this year the plan is that Archery hunters can "pick" any region they want. If they all picked the Southern, there will be 20,000 + archery hunters down there. The ONLY reason they are picking this year, is so the DWR can see where they all really want to hunt and maybe make changes next year. Well, thats the way I understood the plan.
 
An FYI for all of you who are incensed at the wildlife board.

Mailing the WB anything will do absolutely nothing. Do you think anyone in government reads the letters that start out with "let me tell you how I would do things." These folks think they know it all. They could care less what you think.

If you want change, you gotta go to the source of the change.

If you think for a second that anyone at the State of Utah who occupies an appointed position cares one bit what the public thinks, you are drinking the coolade. All these folks care about is keeping their position. Don't tell them how mad you are about what they did, tell them how you are going to change the system because you are mad, and make it so they can't do it again. My guess is you will find out pretty quickly that its dang hard to change the system, but it can be done.

Personally, my guess is most of you that are so fed up with the system really have absolutely no clue what really goes on in planning and implementing wildlife management plans, etc, and really are just mad because the changes that are coming are going to affect how you hunt, and you really don't have any sense for the big picture at all.

Just my .02. Now, tell me how you disagree, cuz I really care. LOL!
 
So somebody answer this question for me.... When a dedicated hunter selects which region he wants to hunt, we will say he chooses the southern region, is that tag taken from the pre-set number of tags for the southern region, or is that tag added onto the already set amount of tags for the region???? I have hunted the southern region since I was old enough to hunt in 1996, and have seen a steady increase in hunters every year. What I dont know is if people are just discovering my honey holes, or if more dedicated hunters are choosing southern and adding to the amount of tags already set for the region therefore causing overcrowding and overkilling. Just always been curious, help me out guys!
 
buckstopshere-
what better reason to be fed up, if it affects the way or how we hunt. Absolutley, it affects us as hunters! Thats why I'm frusturated.
One of those proposals affected 16000 utah hunters in one way or another. And it passed with no factual evidence.
Trust me, I can see the big picture and whats behind it as well.
 
Prism's post

"" Sounds like they didn't raise spike tags to 17,000, but it did get raised. WHEW! ""


Does this mean the board discussed raising the spike tags to 17,000 but decided to leave the tag quota unchanged?
 
buck buck boy-
can you tell me how there is over killing going on in the southern unit? How are the buck / doe ratios for that unit? I thought they were 17/100? Isn't it managed for at least 15/100? It appears to me that its doing rather well.
 
Pretty proud of yourself there buck, huh?

Many of us complaining actually do know how it is supposed to work. Many of us have met with groups, the DWR, and the public. Many of us have been to the RAC's year in year out. Many of us actually attended the WB mtg. Yet they do not listen. They have not listened for a long time.

As for the big picture, I think I have that pretty well nailed down as well. How does 7,000 bowhunters equal an overcrowding problem when there are over 15,000 rifle hunters? Yet the Rifle hunt is not overcrowded? You want to see crowded, try hunting the skyline drive above Fairview any weekend up to and including Labor day. Or try any camping area around strawberry reservoir. The southern region does not have any more of an overcrowding issue than the central, north eastern, or even the south eastern.

The southern region should brace itself for a lot of bowhunters applying for the rifle tag this year. I hope it does not happen but rifle tags may be harder to get this year. Take away the "perks" of the bowhunt and many will resort back to the rifle.

Bowhunters kill 12% of the overall harvest in the southern region. Rifle hunters kill over 70% of the total harvest. Yet the Bowhunters need to give up their statewide hunt due to their impact on the herds?? Maybe you need to take a closer look at the big picture. This had no biological reasoning to it. it was simply the good ole boys crying about what is "fair". Pretty pathetic.

Neither of these things directly affect me. I don't hunt the southern zone anymore. I also already have drawn my elk tags. But the spike hunt and archery deal are jacked up.

I guess we have no reason to bi$ch huh? The system is broken.
 
I was told that they raised the spike only tags from 10,000 to 12,000.
Blazingsaddle,
Buckbuckboy was asking a simple question. Where do the dedicated hunter tags come from? He didn't state there is over killing of deer, just maybe more deer killed than the DWR is planning because of extra tags being issued for the Southern Region.
Man you guys are sore losers! The same process has been in place for years now, and you guys don't get your way and you want to change it now. It is about time the wildlife board stops catering to the bowhunters, and listens to the concerns of the other 84% of hunters.
 
Blazing Sadle- I wasnt trying to state that overkilling was happening, just wondering where the tags were coming from and if they were adding more tags than they wanted, therefore killing more deer than they wanted. Simple question dude, chillax brother!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 11:54AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 11:51?AM (MST)

The DWR's original proposal was for 17,000 spike tags. They didn't get it. It sounds like they came in with a number around 13,000 and got it.

But, it sounds like the archery tags are going to be unlimited.

Who wants to hunt the Puans or Book Cliffs LE archery deer hunts with spike elk hunters running all around? Might even get a few guys toting bows around on the Henries for spikers too.
 
Sounds like about 5 guys from the DWR Forums are going to go march on the Capitol. That should be interesting. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 01:08PM (MST)[p]buck boy-
Your right, my bad to jump on you, I'm just too fired up about this. My apologies. No hard feelings?
I'm pretty passionate about a few topics, and I let my frustrations out without thinking.


brag-
you have to be joking bout the WB catering to archers right?
 
I was at the board mtg and on the spike tags the number is 12,500 tags up 1500 from old cap so not a major increase. But that said the archers are in a bad spot. unlimited spike archery tags, I proposed they cap the archery tags at what was sold last year this was not even adressed by the board. How crowded is the pahvant, san jaun, monroe, dutton archery season goinog to be now? Deer hunters, cow hunters, spike hunters dedicated hunters, and the unlucky few who draw limited entry archery. I will not spend my points on it next season for sure. Also with archers picking there region how many more will pick the southern? How many more dedicated will pick the south? If you are into conspiracy theories this is the perfect storm for the end of statewide archery.
 
Brag.....what planet are you from? The archers just got royaly screwed! Last year they moved the archery elk dates back so that they didnt interfere with the rifle hunters limited entry(screw job). Now they are dumping of spike hunters into all of the archery units during the limited entry seasons. That sure sounds like a good idea to me.

I'll now talk slowly for you...People are mad because the MAJORITY of the people who attended the RAC meetings didnt want these things passed. I'm trying to figure out where you got your numbers from. Now pay attention, THREE our of FIVE (making 60%, that is over 50 and therefore a MAJORITY) RAC's didnt want the bow hunting rules changed. They also didnt want the spike hunt changed to be what it is now. Are you still with me? That means that the MAJORITY of hunters didnt want these changes. The SFW also did a survey and that was dominated by people who didnt want a change. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, sounds like you are in the minority here and that people are rightfully upset with the way that things turned out.

Brine....can you please explain how a much lower number of archers hunting a unit makes for overcrowded conditions but about twice that many rifle tags does nothing? You are right we should cut all of the archery dates to a five day season, you can hunt within 50 yards of your primary residence, and if you have ever picked up a bow you are excluded.

I am upset because we did things the way that they were supposed to be done and were not listened to by our wildlife board. They made changes that the MAJORITY didnt want.
I wish that there was a fair election process for choosing these people.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]
Adamosoa:

Remember when the State of Utah had a statewide gen rifle season that anyone could buy a tag for?

Remember when rifle hunters could hunt nine full days?

Remember last year when rifle hunters had to take five days (in two regions) to hunt one of five regions they could choose from? Remember how rifle hunters have been choosing which unit to hunt since about 1993?

You wanna talk about screw jobs, a broken system, and having change shoved down your throat?

You know, I understand all points of view, but give me a FB!
 
Let's not forget that these unlimited archery elk tags are either sex...

Times are changing for Utah's elk herd.
 
Maybe the system is broke, but that is not a big increase on spike tags for that many units, and the Beaver has been like this for 15+ years and not hurt a bit, and the added spike pressure during the LE archery hunt isn't very noticable...still argueable the best hunt in the state for big stinky's...... lets see what this deer "survey" finds
 
Hopefully it'll give the Wasatch some relief and quality will start to return to what it was a few years ago.

Spread the spike hunters out some.
 
I think the only way for the spike elk hunt on all LE to be fair would be to allow rifle spike elk hunters to hunt during the LE rifle hunts. The LE archery elk hunters are now going to have a lot more hunters (archery spike/cow hunters)in the field with them why not everybody else?
 
Prism,

There is a stipulation that if any of the herds are below objective that the archery spike hunters can only shoot a spike, No Cows! That will help some. As a hunter, I would prefer these hunts be spike only, no cows. The reason for this hunt was to eliminate some bulls. If it were only spike only, I believe the archery pressure would be negligible.

For those who think that spike hunters during archery season do not affect the outcome of your hunt, you should try it. It makes for a more difficult hunt to be sure. I have hunted LE Manti and Wasatch archery and it was tough. I got it done, but could have easily not too. Talk about unfair.

LE tag for archery to hunt with everyone and there dog or a rut rifle tag? O well. We will try to improve what we have and get over it.

Buck,

I truly do empathize with you on the cuts the rifle hunters have had to make. Times have changed for the worse for the thunder stick. On the flip side, if we still had unlimited rifle tags we would have no deer. When herds start declining like the Mule deer have, something has to give. It will and should always be the weapon which inflicts the most damage to the herd. This is because the DWR relies on funding from liscences. They have no choice but to sell tags that will do the LEAST damage to the herd. That takes enticement and fluff to get guy's to switch. It sucks and may not be "fair", but it is the best compromise between the deer and the ever important mighty Dollar. Unfortunately it pits hunter against hunter and we fight and bicker over "overcrowding" and who hunts longer instead of uniting to try and find the solution and fix to the problem. I for 1 hope that sonner than later the attention is turned to the DEER herd and instead of spending 5 seconds on it at the WB meeting, they back off the elk and make Deer a PRIORITY!!!!

Have a great day!

Chad
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-08 AT 04:55PM (MST)[p]Chad,

I agree. I know A LOT of great archers who spent years worth of points on archery Wasatch LE tags to have their hunts messed by spike/cow hunters.

I live in the middle of the Wasatch and sure there are still some great bulls, but it's not what it use to be. I could have had a Wasatch tag this year and didn't want a tag-even with a rifle.

For the most part elk on spike units are much harder to hunt due to the eduction they receive from everyone and their hoochy mommas chasing spikes around. Who knows maybe this will lead to lower success rates on these new spike units...

More than likely I'll be one of the many spike hunters headed south next year to chase somewhat uneducated elk around with the bow.

I also agree with your deer comment. I'm so sick of hearing about Utah's elk problems and lack of hearing much of anything about Utah's deer herds.

Most all of us hunt deer every year and will only hunt Utah LE elk once or twice in our lifetimes yet all we hear about is elk elk and more elk.
 
I've read every post on this thread and saw several questions asked with no answer, so can anyone answer these questions.
Was anything changed with the bonus point system?
Now that archers pick a region, are there going to be caps on every region? Or, can all archers choose Southern and get it?
Do dedicated hunter tags come from the allocated cap? Or, are they added on to the cap? Thus increasing tags for that region?

Thanks.
 
Adamsoa,
Yes the bowhunters did take a hit this year. I am not argueing that point. They did not move the LE Elk archery hunt back last year. It ended the exact same weekend that it always does. They just gave the bowhunters 5 EXTRA days on the front. I will even buy that the majority of people at the RACs were agianst these proposals. You need to remember that the RACS and WB are emailed and approached daily by hunters not just at the meetings. My 84 percent comment earlier was referring to the archers get 16 percent of the deer tags. Therefore 84 percent of the hunters are not archery hunters. I still stand by the fact that the DWR and their biologist proposed all of these changes. Do you think you know better than they do?
 
Prism,

Maybe I will join ya down south! I have always dreamed of being able to kill a bull on the San Juan. Just never thought it would be a spike!!!

O well, Back to deer. Status Quo seems to be what the State wants huh? What a shame all this effort put in to the elk and the Henry's. How about the general units???
 
NVdrhntr,

I did not stick around to hear what happened to the bonus point system, but as for the caps.

1. There are no regional caps. The archers just have to pick a region until the first of September and then they can go statewide. Theoretically, every archer could choose the same region for the beginning of the hunt.

2. Dedicated hunter tags have always come off the top of the allocated cap. They are not added on top and never have been. There is a specified number of permits per region and all "pre drawing permits" (ie. dedicated hunter and lifetime permits) are taken out before the drawing is conducted.

I too am interested in what happened to the bonus points if anything.

Jon
www.HuntersTrailhead.com
 
No Kidding all we hear is ELK ELK ELK. When is the DWR going to step up to the plate and do something that will be PRODUCTIVE in susstaining and growing our deer herds!!!! I to want to know what else was brought up about the Bonus/prefrence points, any major changes? By the way my 2cents on this archers picking a unit until September is NOT going to work when you will have an ARMY of Spike/cow hunters on the newly opened units!
I also think thatALOT of COW ELK are going to die!!! I would like to know how many archers have killed spikes only the past few years with archery equipment, I will dare guess over half will hit the hills and the first cow that walks within shooting range is getting an arrow!

MY 2 Cents
 
I have never seen the wasatch during the hunts, but if it is like the southern region it is overcrowded. I mean for all the hunts too. The general hunts this year were as bad as I have ever seen. The muzzle loader was a joke, and the rifle was even worse. I didn't archery hunt this year but I have other years and it isn't what archery should be.
I don't see any simple solution but somwhere something is gonna have to give.
There are plenty of pissed off people over this whole deal, but what are you all going to do about it? I hope everyone who is mad actually does write a letter to the proper person, whoever that may be.
Or you can argue about it on the internet! That will get some stuff done.
 
I have to admit, after all the talk of mule deer change, nothing happened. I know it chaps the hell out of the die-hard bow guys, but I don't think choosing a region for 10 days or so is the end of the world. You guys keep saying 12%, but that is pretty significant. Not rifle significant, but quite a few deer.

I was glad to see spike tags raised and open across the state. People have screamed for opportunity, well there you have it, more spike tags.

I like arguing on the internet. Looks like you can get as much accomplished here as you can going to a RAC meeting. Or, you can write the WB all want. I have done it before and you do not even get a response. I know Lee Howard well enough to know he has not got time for you or me in between dumpster dives.
 
HEY BRAG and all of you owners of all deer south of U.S.6,
do you have any idea what just got passed for you??? You have no clue exactly what making archers pick a region next year means.

I will be hunting down south next year on the opener because I bowhunt and what was passed didn't include any caps. I've got two youth hunters that are going to now be competing with you or your kids for a southern rifle tag next year because to fall under the hunt all 3 season rule they must draw a region specific rifle tag . My wife will also be putting in for a southern region rifle tag because if I am taking the kids I'll need a little help. I am pretty sure that since our family is going that her sisters family will want a little get away and her kids are going to need tags as well. Oh well more competition.

I like to bowhunt elk and have been just hoping like hell for the opportunity to be on the Pahvant with an elk tag in hand, sure it just may be for a spike it's all legal now.

Here is one other little tidbit the Board also adopted the rule that all weapon types will have the front of their seasons shortened if buck to doe ratio's fall below 15-100. The south has the highest buck to doe ratio's while up north is the lowest. Now do you honestly think the Division is going to reduce tags after the Budget came down from Huntsman yesterday??

Hell no they ain't were just going to open the floodgates to the south because the DWR has to have money and hunters need to hunt.

I am still going to hunt where I want next year and since the Wildlife Board didn't have enough sense to plug all of the holes in their rules I'll probably be hunting statewdie for years to come.

By the way I ain't going to drop even a single cent in a business south of Utah County. Us northern Scumbags ain't good enough to hunt your deer or be in your hills then we wouldn't think of defiling any of your businesses with our money.
 
Hey Ty,

You are right, the end of the statewide is not the end of the world. But why do it? I have to disagree, 12% of a harvest on any herd in any unit would be considered minuscule at best. There is absolutely no reason for this to happen with any merit or statistics showing it is a negative impact.

I am sure we all will have to agree to disagree. That is okay! Heck, some of my best friends on this site I met having some heated conversation on here "fixing" the states deer and elk hunting!!!

It is a shame that we can't actually have a real voice in the matter. Many of us spend a whole heck of a lot more time in the hills than any of them do! But what do we know???

Have a great night.
 
Hey, Wiley,
Come down and bring all of your family and friends and you will prove the point that we have been trying to make for years. That the Southern region is getting hammered. If half of the archery tags go to the Southern region Then the WB can finish the job next year and make you choose your region for the entire year.
 
If I didn't know any better I would say that some of you on this thread has had your log in hacked into by your 10 year old. Good grief!

Has the spike hunt tags even been selling out every year? I think they will have a hard time selling any more tags. Opening up more unit will only spread out the pressure more. I'm not saying I like it, but I really don't think its going to effect much.

As far as the archery hunters picking there region for the first 2 weeks, Is it really worth name calling and threatening to take take up all the tags and refusing to spend your money at the local store!lol. Sounds like it is a trial period to see where the masses are hunting.

I'm more concerned about the changes that didn't take place. There was some good ideas being talked about, but sounds like nothing happened. Did the Dedicated Hunter Program go to a draw this year or is it first come-first serve?
 
ss,

Thats alright, we can disagree that a few thousand deer does make a difference. I can understand that change can be a pain, but you are one bowhunter that does not need to complain. I say this as only a compliment. You do very well, hunt the way you like to hunt, and usually bring home a trophy. If the hunters were spread out and you had less competition in your region of choice, would that not make you happy?

Deer management to me means knowing where your hunters are before the hunts. I wish they would narrow it down even more for the rifle guys. Utah is the only state I have hunted where you can go pretty much any place you want.

Oh well, no skin off me either way. Just my thoughts and I had no vote in the out come. With the equipment available today, I believe any archer who practices and can shoot, will kill some kind of deer if they choose to. I know when I bow hunted and bows became much more advanced I never came home empty. Nothing big, but I could kill a deer without any trouble. I do realize that quite a few guys are selective and won't take just anything.
 
All the changes are summarized on the dwr website. Bonus points, shed antler gathering changes the whole ball of wax. Check it out, should stir some new controversy.
 
The wildlife board changed group applications. If one member of a group that has been successful in the draw wants to turn in their tag, the rest of the group must turn their tags in too. This will prevent the "averaging" that has been taking place where one person with max bonus points can continue surrendering tags year after year and have bonus points keep accumulating.
No other changes in resident bonus points that I know of. Non-residents can now buy bonus points in more than one species I believe. Not sure of the details.
 
For the genius that says spike hunters don't affect LE archers much, let me throw out a few numbers for you. On average for the success rates on the spike only LE units is 16% LOWER than the success rates on the other LE units. That would be akin to making the LE rifle hunt drop down to 70-75% across the board. I heard people whing about the tough conditions this year and I bet a pile of ktc leftovers that the success rates will still be OVER 80% for early rifle.

For me, it isn't so much abouot not getting wait "I" wanted, it is the arrogance the WB displayed, and their ignorance on ALL subjects that they voted on. They were more clueless than a rifle hunter who thinks by limiting archers to pick a region for the first 17 days it will help him/her get a rifle tag.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I am with you Ty to a point. I really have no dog in the fight either! I don't hunt he southern unit and don't need to. I rarely kill a deer unless it meets my criteria and lately that has been few and far between! I think if the bowhunters are killing a few thousand deer in the south, the rifle hunters must be killing a crap load??

I am totally in favor of figuring out the distribution of bowhunters, muzzy and rifle hunter too. That was the proposal that all the major players signed off on. Figure it out this year and make changes next year when we had realistic and much more solid data. Not make a knee jerk reaction type change with no solid info?? If it is shown that bowhunters negatively impact the herds in harvest, I will be on board with an entire pick your region. I think that is what you guy's don't understand. I really do care more about the deer herd than you think.

To change hunts of any type weapon based on sheer emotion is NO way to manage.

As to your question about crowding in my area, I actually believe for bowhunting to be effective at providing opportunity with minimal harvest there MUST be some crowding. This pressure actually makes it harder to kill a deer and allows for more hunters without impacting the harvest %. I don't know if I can explain what I am trying to say. Am I making sense at all??

I also hope the spike hunts they passed alleviate pressure off of the traditional units a bit but not so much that these "new" spike units don't get decimated! No limit or distribution plans could be a very bad thing! Time will tell. Have a great night!

Chad
 
Pro wrote, "For the genius that says spike hunters don't affect LE archers much, let me throw out a few numbers for you."

Who said that Pro? I must have missed it?
 
spike tags for the rifle hunt were set at 12,500 statewide.

In years past, there were 19,000 spike tags sold.

the past few years 11,000 spike tags.

So the current spike units will see some decreases in hunting pressure and spike harvest, the units like San Juan, Pavant, Dutton, Monroe, Book Cliffs, etc will have some new spike hunters.

Because super high bull cow ratios were limiting new calf production, DWR and Board decided to take spike bulls versus older management bulls, and then mature bulls will be managed per age class guidelines for all the units
 
It may very well be 80%+. I guess I look at things different than just a percentage. If a guy gets off of his ass and can shoot worth a hill of beans he can kill an elk. For me the LE is not about just killing an elk, it is about killing a top end bull which is not 80% success.

If the quality is there, the pressure is low, and the animals abundant, you have a chance at a top end animal. At the same time under the same circumstances, just killing a bull to raise percentages is a gimme. That is what many guys do. They hunt for one day, get nervous, or do not have a clue what they are looking at and drop the hammer sending the DWR a harvest report of successful. I would bet if archers just shot at anything with horns they too would have a higher rate of success. The difference is an archer has a more difficult time getting second and third chances if they pass on the dinks at first. However, any hunter that draws an LE tag for archery, rifle, or muzz and actually tries will have a chance at something.
 
Hey BRAG setting caps is pretty much a done deal and I think everybody knew this once the DWR said they planned on making this proposal a few months back.

I had no problem sitting down with the southerners and working out a win / win like we proposed. I just find it funny that what the wildlife board pushed through ended up blowing up in their faces and the faces of the southerners. The Bowhunters were willing to work with the people down south to handle this issue, concessions would have been made.

If you had been at the Wildlife Board meeting you would have
heard the Chairman read a letter from Blanding City asking for more hunters to come their way. We tried talking sense now it's time to talk dollars.
 
Guys, I dont want to get in the middle of this pissing contest,but I truely would like to know,how the DWR comes up with the buck to doe ratio.I am sorry but I have to call BS on the buck/doe ratio in the Southern unit.The buck numbers arent realistic for what I have seen.And no I dont just road hunt or drive around on a wheeler.I see more and bigger bucks in the fields and tamarack than on the hill.If you pay a high enough tresspass fee,you might have a chance for something bigger than a spike or 2 point buck.All I am asking is how do they come up with their figures?All I am saying is how they can say the Southern Unit is so great?(ROD)
 
Well, I've always thought Utah made things complicated with their drawing procedures, but, alas its going to be even more complicated now!
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Why not go to a system similar to Nevada?
break the state up into smaller units.
Allocate tags for all species for these smaller units based on sound science and biology.
Ok, everything becomes limited entry. so what! For your premier areas, (henry's, Pauns etc.) keep your tags low and buck doe ratios high. everything else could be managed as though it were general (higher tag #'s)
Then you can get rid of all these different classifications.
Premium LE , LE, General. Who cares.
Simplification would be better!!
 
Ty,

I agree with you 100% on that! My previous posts about 80% was more about the deer harvest not elk.
Have a great day.

Chad
 
>Bragabit wrote: The wildlife board
>didn't go against what every
>hunter wanted.
>
>Amen to that!!
>
>The Southern Region was getting hit
>way too heavy on the
>archery hunt. Archers have
>become to efficient at taking
>animals. One of our
>surrounding states has also come
>to that conclusion, and are
>talking about cutting back on
>the archery season.

The archery hunters have become to efficiant in the southern unit WTF!!!!!!!!!!! how can yo say that and then turn around and support a 9 day rifle hunt that is a complete load of crap.
Just Living The Dream
 
Hey Rod the last southern region rack meeting i attended in Beaver last year i asked that same question to the guy from the division talking about the deer he said "we dont count deer we estimate" for example if they were by the panguitch lake unit and seen 50 deer with 10 bucks and 40 does then there were 20 bucks per 100 does on that unit... weather or not it makes any sense that was the answer i got.
 
encore50-That really makes alot of sense.No wonder the Southern is rated so highly.What a freekin joke.I knew something was up.On the rifle hunt this year they had their checking stations set up at a couple sites on Fishlake and never had anyone check in.All the bucks must have been down by Panguitch.What a freekin joke.(ROD)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-08 AT 06:10PM (MST)[p]Politics, Utahans? you reap what you sow. more cows, more spikes, more hunters afield. This will increase revenues for the state and local, economies through small and large business.

The carrying capacity of the land is the overwhelming factor in establishing the amount of animals within a specific area. The ratio of bulls to cows establishes the quality of a limited entry hunt.

With the exception of the RACK audiences, the seventeen person committee was not representative of ?WE THE PEOPLE?. These decisions were not supported by data but rather to establish data.

The subsequent impact to roads and water shed of our wild places has yet to be realized. UTAH WILL ALLWAYS BE A MILLIONAIRE PLAYBOY?S PERSONAL HUNTING PRESERVE consider this next time you go to the poles.
 

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