Wildlife Board or SFW Board.
- Thread starter wileywapati
- Start date
Robiland
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,075
>Robi,
>Hmmm the average joe.....who exactly is
>the average joe??? The
>guy that goes out once
>a year for the general
>deer season? The guy
>that is upset that there
>is no longer a statewide
>archery season? The guy
>that attends the Expo every
>year? The guy that only
>hunts solo, or DIY?
>The guy that hunts in
>whatever unit he can
>draw? The guy that
>enjoys the hunt even if
>he's just a spotter for
>a friend or family member?
> The guy that saves
>money all year and applies
>for several states? The guy
>that only fly fishes and
>hunts upland game? The
>guy that only fishes with
>power bait? The that
>prefers to see more mature
>bucks on each unit? The
>guy that is happy to
>shoot a 2 point every
>single year? Who's the average
>joe???? I take new hunters
>out almost every single year,
>youth and older, I
>help total strangers in LE
>tags every single year. I
>hunt with guys that purchase
>conservation tags every single year.
> I spend every chance
>I get hunting and fishing
>with family and friends, I
>sacrifice and probably over spend
>at times to enjoy my
>passion. Am I an
>average joe....not a chance because
>it is my passion.
>The average joe is a
>fictional character trumped up by
>those wanting to give validity
>to their personal cause.
>You cause you feel is
>hurt by the SFW so
>you bring up the average
>joe as a means to
>validate your views and feelings.
> It's a safe thing
>to do because the average
>joe doesn't really exist and
>have a voice of it's
>own. Even you are
>not an average joe or
>you wouldn't be on here
>arguing, you're the same as
>me...a passionate sportsman. You're
>just not happy with some
>of the current direction of
>our big game management in
>Utah. So you lean
>on the average joe card
>to support your displeasure.
>I lean on the SFW
>to make my point or
>I lean on the RACs
>and the WB. Those
>are real tangible identifiable things.
> It's the reason I
>get things done that I'm
>happy with and you don't.
> I know its a
>weird concept...this whole reality thing.
>
The average Joe Hunter is everyone you just mentioned. Pretty much anyone that doesnt have the money to buy his way to the front of the line every year. Your average everyday guy. Sounds like you know exactly who it is. So why did you just ask me???
And like typical fashion of SFW, patting yourself on the back. Does your shoulder ever get sore?
You know, you are right. I am not happy the way the management is going. WHY? Because it is led by sfw and I dont agree with SFW. Is that a bad thing? NO, ITS MY RIGHT. We dont always have to agree with everything. But when there is 1 group who leads the pack and persuades others with big checks at the right time before a big vote, it raises an eyebrow. Call me crazy, that fine. Yes, I am a mythical, made up person I like to call AVERAGE JOE HUNTER.
>Hmmm the average joe.....who exactly is
>the average joe??? The
>guy that goes out once
>a year for the general
>deer season? The guy
>that is upset that there
>is no longer a statewide
>archery season? The guy
>that attends the Expo every
>year? The guy that only
>hunts solo, or DIY?
>The guy that hunts in
>whatever unit he can
>draw? The guy that
>enjoys the hunt even if
>he's just a spotter for
>a friend or family member?
> The guy that saves
>money all year and applies
>for several states? The guy
>that only fly fishes and
>hunts upland game? The
>guy that only fishes with
>power bait? The that
>prefers to see more mature
>bucks on each unit? The
>guy that is happy to
>shoot a 2 point every
>single year? Who's the average
>joe???? I take new hunters
>out almost every single year,
>youth and older, I
>help total strangers in LE
>tags every single year. I
>hunt with guys that purchase
>conservation tags every single year.
> I spend every chance
>I get hunting and fishing
>with family and friends, I
>sacrifice and probably over spend
>at times to enjoy my
>passion. Am I an
>average joe....not a chance because
>it is my passion.
>The average joe is a
>fictional character trumped up by
>those wanting to give validity
>to their personal cause.
>You cause you feel is
>hurt by the SFW so
>you bring up the average
>joe as a means to
>validate your views and feelings.
> It's a safe thing
>to do because the average
>joe doesn't really exist and
>have a voice of it's
>own. Even you are
>not an average joe or
>you wouldn't be on here
>arguing, you're the same as
>me...a passionate sportsman. You're
>just not happy with some
>of the current direction of
>our big game management in
>Utah. So you lean
>on the average joe card
>to support your displeasure.
>I lean on the SFW
>to make my point or
>I lean on the RACs
>and the WB. Those
>are real tangible identifiable things.
> It's the reason I
>get things done that I'm
>happy with and you don't.
> I know its a
>weird concept...this whole reality thing.
>
The average Joe Hunter is everyone you just mentioned. Pretty much anyone that doesnt have the money to buy his way to the front of the line every year. Your average everyday guy. Sounds like you know exactly who it is. So why did you just ask me???
And like typical fashion of SFW, patting yourself on the back. Does your shoulder ever get sore?
You know, you are right. I am not happy the way the management is going. WHY? Because it is led by sfw and I dont agree with SFW. Is that a bad thing? NO, ITS MY RIGHT. We dont always have to agree with everything. But when there is 1 group who leads the pack and persuades others with big checks at the right time before a big vote, it raises an eyebrow. Call me crazy, that fine. Yes, I am a mythical, made up person I like to call AVERAGE JOE HUNTER.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
M73-
Unfortunately, it is the world we live in -- at least for Utahns. 300 plus premium tags sold to the highest bidder each year -- more than all other western states combined. That does not even include the 200 additional premium tags set aside for the Expo. Let's hope that the "Utah model" as it is affectionately referred to by our friends in surrounding states does not spread. Fortunately, sportsmen in AZ, WY, ID and other states have recently pushed back the effort to spread this cancer.
-Hawkeye-
Unfortunately, it is the world we live in -- at least for Utahns. 300 plus premium tags sold to the highest bidder each year -- more than all other western states combined. That does not even include the 200 additional premium tags set aside for the Expo. Let's hope that the "Utah model" as it is affectionately referred to by our friends in surrounding states does not spread. Fortunately, sportsmen in AZ, WY, ID and other states have recently pushed back the effort to spread this cancer.
-Hawkeye-
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,785
LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-15 AT 10:43AM (MST)[p]Hawkeye,
So come up with a better model!!! You're focus is downing the SFW, not resolving the issues that allowed them to gain power to begin with. Utah is not funded like the other states, get the funding changed and then push to eliminate the 300 tags. Provide a solution to the problem don't just point it out. Pointing out problems is easy, actually attacking them and coming up with a fix is what makes the world move forward. SFW is attacking and fixing problems, you may not like how they do it or always like the outcome but that's what they do. They are not the root problem they are an organization attacking the problems. Attack the root problems with good solutions and you gain a following and power. Attack SFW and you do nothing to fix the root problem. You assume because I support SFW that I agree with all they do. That simply is not the truth. I support them because they have a voice and they can get results, so I use that asset to push for things I would like to see happen with our wildlife. You tell me a better organization to go to if I want my agenda pushed forward? Who? Who do you go to? Who does Robi or Wiley go to? Tell me how mean things on your agenda have been accomplished? Tell me what relying on the voice of the average joe hunter has accomplished in Utah. If the mythical average joe hunters really existed and cared about wildlife 10% more than they currently do SFW would have never been born. Claiming to be the voice of the average joe holds no weight with me because the average joe doesn't care enough to have their own voice heard!
Robi,
My shoulder is never sore its in shape. It's because I was raise to live life and love it. To adapt and overcome. To do things I love and to have passion. I was raised that whining accomplishes nothing. My dad use to have a saying that me and my brothers always laugh about it probably sums up our entire attitudes, "for hell sake, help yourself son". 35 years ago my dad could have been an average joe hunter and taken me and my brothers out every year for the deer hunt and whined and complained about 3-5 per 100 does. Then hung up his rifle at the end of the season and gone back to work until the following season and complain and whined again. Nope he didnt, he dug in and worked hard to make changes he wanted to see. He taught us that presenting solutions was the only way to get changes made and presenting them within the system that existed. I don't pat myself on the shoulder but I do shake my head at the whiners that never offer solutions yet want to get their own way because they claim to be the voice of the silent majority.
So come up with a better model!!! You're focus is downing the SFW, not resolving the issues that allowed them to gain power to begin with. Utah is not funded like the other states, get the funding changed and then push to eliminate the 300 tags. Provide a solution to the problem don't just point it out. Pointing out problems is easy, actually attacking them and coming up with a fix is what makes the world move forward. SFW is attacking and fixing problems, you may not like how they do it or always like the outcome but that's what they do. They are not the root problem they are an organization attacking the problems. Attack the root problems with good solutions and you gain a following and power. Attack SFW and you do nothing to fix the root problem. You assume because I support SFW that I agree with all they do. That simply is not the truth. I support them because they have a voice and they can get results, so I use that asset to push for things I would like to see happen with our wildlife. You tell me a better organization to go to if I want my agenda pushed forward? Who? Who do you go to? Who does Robi or Wiley go to? Tell me how mean things on your agenda have been accomplished? Tell me what relying on the voice of the average joe hunter has accomplished in Utah. If the mythical average joe hunters really existed and cared about wildlife 10% more than they currently do SFW would have never been born. Claiming to be the voice of the average joe holds no weight with me because the average joe doesn't care enough to have their own voice heard!
Robi,
My shoulder is never sore its in shape. It's because I was raise to live life and love it. To adapt and overcome. To do things I love and to have passion. I was raised that whining accomplishes nothing. My dad use to have a saying that me and my brothers always laugh about it probably sums up our entire attitudes, "for hell sake, help yourself son". 35 years ago my dad could have been an average joe hunter and taken me and my brothers out every year for the deer hunt and whined and complained about 3-5 per 100 does. Then hung up his rifle at the end of the season and gone back to work until the following season and complain and whined again. Nope he didnt, he dug in and worked hard to make changes he wanted to see. He taught us that presenting solutions was the only way to get changes made and presenting them within the system that existed. I don't pat myself on the shoulder but I do shake my head at the whiners that never offer solutions yet want to get their own way because they claim to be the voice of the silent majority.
Robiland
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,075
Typical SFW,
Degrading the little guy or average Joe hunter because they dont agree with SFW. Dont you get it? This is exactly why people dont like SFW. Why isnt SFW in other states? Because they see the corruption here in UTAH. Stop riding the coat tails of SFW. If you came up for air once in a while, your brain might start to comprehend a few of these things. But your head is so far up there, it cant get enough oxygen.
How do you know I havent done anything for my cause? Do you know how many meetings I have been to? How many I have watched via "interweb"? Just because I am not loud and outspoken, doesnt mean I havent been to these meetings. You might be surprised. I know You know Hawkeye. He is related to me. Infact, we hunt and fish and camp and do all the things these "average Joe hunter" does, together. Yes, weve even been to the stadium a time or 2. Probably alot more than you give credit, or want to give credit.
You remember how once apon a time when SFW didnt have to account for any of the $$$ from the tags from the expo? Do you know now how come SFW now gives back a measly $3 back to the wildlife? Its not because SFW decided to do the right thing. Its because people like Hawkeye and MANY MANY others fought with them for YEARS, YES YEARS, before they finally agreed. Its a start. And I hope its not the end.
Good day Muley73, I am done arguing. I told myself I wouldnt do this. So I am done. Happy Hunting!
Degrading the little guy or average Joe hunter because they dont agree with SFW. Dont you get it? This is exactly why people dont like SFW. Why isnt SFW in other states? Because they see the corruption here in UTAH. Stop riding the coat tails of SFW. If you came up for air once in a while, your brain might start to comprehend a few of these things. But your head is so far up there, it cant get enough oxygen.
How do you know I havent done anything for my cause? Do you know how many meetings I have been to? How many I have watched via "interweb"? Just because I am not loud and outspoken, doesnt mean I havent been to these meetings. You might be surprised. I know You know Hawkeye. He is related to me. Infact, we hunt and fish and camp and do all the things these "average Joe hunter" does, together. Yes, weve even been to the stadium a time or 2. Probably alot more than you give credit, or want to give credit.
You remember how once apon a time when SFW didnt have to account for any of the $$$ from the tags from the expo? Do you know now how come SFW now gives back a measly $3 back to the wildlife? Its not because SFW decided to do the right thing. Its because people like Hawkeye and MANY MANY others fought with them for YEARS, YES YEARS, before they finally agreed. Its a start. And I hope its not the end.
Good day Muley73, I am done arguing. I told myself I wouldnt do this. So I am done. Happy Hunting!
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,785
Robi,
Thank you for fighting the SFW. Now lets see some solutions to the root problems. Root problems regarding wildlife not root problems with an organization working to help wildlife. Thats what you don't grasp. My head is out enough to see the entire picture. Your head is focused with blinders. Its all good. Like I said I'm happy with current results, I'm sorry you are not.
Thank you for fighting the SFW. Now lets see some solutions to the root problems. Root problems regarding wildlife not root problems with an organization working to help wildlife. Thats what you don't grasp. My head is out enough to see the entire picture. Your head is focused with blinders. Its all good. Like I said I'm happy with current results, I'm sorry you are not.
LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-15 AT 12:48PM (MST)[p]>Robi,
>Thank you for fighting the SFW.
> Now lets see some
>solutions to the root problems.
> Root problems regarding wildlife
>not root problems with an
>organization working to help wildlife.
> Thats what you don't
>grasp. My head is
>out enough to see the
>entire picture. Your head
>is focused with blinders.
>Its all good. Like
>I said I'm happy with
>current results, I'm sorry you
>are not.
If SFW is so great, why has everyone in the other states told them to go pound sand with their Utah schemes and why do I hear 9 of 10 in Utah that are on this site hate what it stands for? You say you're happy with the results SFW is producing, when it appears that 90% that speak out aren't! Now that BB is on the Board pushing your SFW agenda you should be extra happy, LOL!
>Thank you for fighting the SFW.
> Now lets see some
>solutions to the root problems.
> Root problems regarding wildlife
>not root problems with an
>organization working to help wildlife.
> Thats what you don't
>grasp. My head is
>out enough to see the
>entire picture. Your head
>is focused with blinders.
>Its all good. Like
>I said I'm happy with
>current results, I'm sorry you
>are not.
If SFW is so great, why has everyone in the other states told them to go pound sand with their Utah schemes and why do I hear 9 of 10 in Utah that are on this site hate what it stands for? You say you're happy with the results SFW is producing, when it appears that 90% that speak out aren't! Now that BB is on the Board pushing your SFW agenda you should be extra happy, LOL!
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
Cody-
Glad to see you are following in the footsteps of your old man and pretending to know the motives of anybody who disagrees with your position. The apple certainly did not fall far from the tree in that respect. No harm. I actually enjoy my discussions with you and DeLoss on these topics. I view it as an opportunity to share ideas and educate others as to what is happening in the great State of Utah.
I won't pretend to speak for others on this forum, but will tell you that my focus is not ?downing the SFW? as you claim. I am just an average guy that enjoys hunting, hiking, fishing, camping, etc. In recent years, I have become more involved in some of these issues, not because I want to torpedo a certain group or to further my own position. Rather, I saw something that I thought was broken and so I decided to try to make people aware of the problem and hopefully fix it. To use your words, I guess I was trying to ?attack and fix problems.?
Unfortunately, I believe that SFW, despite the many good things they do, is part of the problem here in Utah. As I explained before, it started with the complete lack of accounting and transparency on the Expo tags but it then expanded to other topics. A group of concerned sportsmen ? and I don't want to take credit for this because there were many people involved ? got together and presented a ?better model? or ?solution? as you would say to the Expo tag issue. Unfortunately, SFW and MDF resisted because they did not want to give up the benefits of receiving roughly $1 million a year from public assets with no strings attached. After a great deal of organizing, discussion, debating, meetings, etc., the two groups ultimately agreed to commit 30% of the Expo tag application fees to actual conservation. So this means that $1.50 (not $3) of every $5 application fee is now committed for approved conservation projects. Did we get everything we wanted? Nope. But it is a small step in the right direction. Would SFW and MDF have done this on their own without the public outcry for change? Nope. Have we given up on this issue? Nope.
During this process, I became aware of other issues that were concerning to me and others (e.g., # of convention permits, the North American Conservation Model, stream access, transfer of federal lands, etc). Once again, I felt like SFW was on the wrong side of these issues. Perhaps the most troubling realization to me was that SFW (and some other conservation groups) have so thoroughly infiltrated the DWR, the Wildlife Board and the entire political system that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get anything done in Utah that is not in line with their agenda. Now, this is not a problem so long as your personal goals and ideals are aligned with SFW?s (think Cody and DeLoss). But good luck effecting or resisting any change that is in conflict with their agenda. Kudos to SFW. They know how to play the game, and they play it well. Unfortunately, they are now in a position to also change the rules to the game (think recent changes to Wildlife Board).
So coming full circle, there are many of us who are working to fix problems and come up with better models. Right or wrong, those ideas and proposals likely will not go anywhere under the current system unless they are consistent with SFW?s agenda. This has played out time and time again. So sportsmen like me have three choices: First, we can roll up our sleeves and continue to work to address the obvious problems we see ? fully knowing that it will be an uphill battle under the current system and will likely draw the ire of the SFW faithful. Second, we can turn a blind eye to the fundamental problems we see, join the SFW train, and pat ourselves on the back that ?our group? has the loudest voice in wildlife management in Utah. Third, we can give up and become another one of ?the average joes? that you continually mock because they don't care enough to get involved. Of those three choices, I have chosen Option 1. I hope this helps you see where I am coming from on these issues. I doubt it will change your views but it never hurts to try.
On a more positive note, Robiland and I found out today that we will be hunting Region G this fall. I am looking forward to chasing big deer on rough, steep mountains. Good luck to the rest of you this fall.
-Hawkeye-
Glad to see you are following in the footsteps of your old man and pretending to know the motives of anybody who disagrees with your position. The apple certainly did not fall far from the tree in that respect. No harm. I actually enjoy my discussions with you and DeLoss on these topics. I view it as an opportunity to share ideas and educate others as to what is happening in the great State of Utah.
I won't pretend to speak for others on this forum, but will tell you that my focus is not ?downing the SFW? as you claim. I am just an average guy that enjoys hunting, hiking, fishing, camping, etc. In recent years, I have become more involved in some of these issues, not because I want to torpedo a certain group or to further my own position. Rather, I saw something that I thought was broken and so I decided to try to make people aware of the problem and hopefully fix it. To use your words, I guess I was trying to ?attack and fix problems.?
Unfortunately, I believe that SFW, despite the many good things they do, is part of the problem here in Utah. As I explained before, it started with the complete lack of accounting and transparency on the Expo tags but it then expanded to other topics. A group of concerned sportsmen ? and I don't want to take credit for this because there were many people involved ? got together and presented a ?better model? or ?solution? as you would say to the Expo tag issue. Unfortunately, SFW and MDF resisted because they did not want to give up the benefits of receiving roughly $1 million a year from public assets with no strings attached. After a great deal of organizing, discussion, debating, meetings, etc., the two groups ultimately agreed to commit 30% of the Expo tag application fees to actual conservation. So this means that $1.50 (not $3) of every $5 application fee is now committed for approved conservation projects. Did we get everything we wanted? Nope. But it is a small step in the right direction. Would SFW and MDF have done this on their own without the public outcry for change? Nope. Have we given up on this issue? Nope.
During this process, I became aware of other issues that were concerning to me and others (e.g., # of convention permits, the North American Conservation Model, stream access, transfer of federal lands, etc). Once again, I felt like SFW was on the wrong side of these issues. Perhaps the most troubling realization to me was that SFW (and some other conservation groups) have so thoroughly infiltrated the DWR, the Wildlife Board and the entire political system that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to get anything done in Utah that is not in line with their agenda. Now, this is not a problem so long as your personal goals and ideals are aligned with SFW?s (think Cody and DeLoss). But good luck effecting or resisting any change that is in conflict with their agenda. Kudos to SFW. They know how to play the game, and they play it well. Unfortunately, they are now in a position to also change the rules to the game (think recent changes to Wildlife Board).
So coming full circle, there are many of us who are working to fix problems and come up with better models. Right or wrong, those ideas and proposals likely will not go anywhere under the current system unless they are consistent with SFW?s agenda. This has played out time and time again. So sportsmen like me have three choices: First, we can roll up our sleeves and continue to work to address the obvious problems we see ? fully knowing that it will be an uphill battle under the current system and will likely draw the ire of the SFW faithful. Second, we can turn a blind eye to the fundamental problems we see, join the SFW train, and pat ourselves on the back that ?our group? has the loudest voice in wildlife management in Utah. Third, we can give up and become another one of ?the average joes? that you continually mock because they don't care enough to get involved. Of those three choices, I have chosen Option 1. I hope this helps you see where I am coming from on these issues. I doubt it will change your views but it never hurts to try.
On a more positive note, Robiland and I found out today that we will be hunting Region G this fall. I am looking forward to chasing big deer on rough, steep mountains. Good luck to the rest of you this fall.
-Hawkeye-
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
Let me know if you need some sweet spots on G Hawkeye! Once of my favorite places to hunt.
It's always an adventure!!!
It's always an adventure!!!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,111
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Per SFW's latest edition of their quarterly magazine, Sportsmen's Voice, I think we can justify adding another Utah Wildlife Board member to their list of strong supporters. Steve Dalton is listed as an SFW life member. It was quite apparent on the Mule Deer Committee when he sided with their views, but he wasn't very open about it. So, 4 of the 7 voting Wildlife Board members are strongly affiliated with SFW. I'm not sure about the other 3.
And even though the 4 will not have napkin meetings or side conversations prior to Board meetings, they are of the same mindset when it comes to the money and trophy aspects of wildlife management and will likely keep pushing for increased/easier trophy hunting which would come at the expense of opportunity.
However, be assured that, as Hawkeye has mentioned, he (and we, UWC) will neither give in nor give up. We'll happily cooperate with them on issues and projects that we feel will promote our mission statement, but will equally oppose them on issues that are contrary to that statement. And this goes for any other organization we encounter.
Another issue as related to the number of SFW supporters on the Wildlife Board has to do with the proposals made by the DWR. As we found out on the original Parowan Front range ride that resulted in the transplant, the DWR is very reluctant to make proposals that they don't think will socially get through the RAC and Board process. Though we, the DWR, BLM, NRCS, and even the SFW reps agreed that we needed to take 500 does off of that winter range, UWC was the only one willing to say so at the RAC's and WB meetings (We're still trying) and you know how that turned out. So, now, how many more sound biological management proposals will be shelved or trashcanned and/or social proposals will be implemented because the DWR can't afford to be viewed at the RAC's and Board meetings any more negatively than they already are. In fact, it's already started with increased buck to doe ratios on 3 Southern Region units.
Bottom line, the number of members from one organization on any committee or board makes a significant difference and it carries with it some consequences, some which are unexpected. Be aware of that and act accordingly!
Per SFW's latest edition of their quarterly magazine, Sportsmen's Voice, I think we can justify adding another Utah Wildlife Board member to their list of strong supporters. Steve Dalton is listed as an SFW life member. It was quite apparent on the Mule Deer Committee when he sided with their views, but he wasn't very open about it. So, 4 of the 7 voting Wildlife Board members are strongly affiliated with SFW. I'm not sure about the other 3.
And even though the 4 will not have napkin meetings or side conversations prior to Board meetings, they are of the same mindset when it comes to the money and trophy aspects of wildlife management and will likely keep pushing for increased/easier trophy hunting which would come at the expense of opportunity.
However, be assured that, as Hawkeye has mentioned, he (and we, UWC) will neither give in nor give up. We'll happily cooperate with them on issues and projects that we feel will promote our mission statement, but will equally oppose them on issues that are contrary to that statement. And this goes for any other organization we encounter.
Another issue as related to the number of SFW supporters on the Wildlife Board has to do with the proposals made by the DWR. As we found out on the original Parowan Front range ride that resulted in the transplant, the DWR is very reluctant to make proposals that they don't think will socially get through the RAC and Board process. Though we, the DWR, BLM, NRCS, and even the SFW reps agreed that we needed to take 500 does off of that winter range, UWC was the only one willing to say so at the RAC's and WB meetings (We're still trying) and you know how that turned out. So, now, how many more sound biological management proposals will be shelved or trashcanned and/or social proposals will be implemented because the DWR can't afford to be viewed at the RAC's and Board meetings any more negatively than they already are. In fact, it's already started with increased buck to doe ratios on 3 Southern Region units.
Bottom line, the number of members from one organization on any committee or board makes a significant difference and it carries with it some consequences, some which are unexpected. Be aware of that and act accordingly!
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
According to Utah Code Section 23-14-2.5, there is a Wildlife Board Nominating Committee which consists of 11 Members from the following groups:
-Agriculture industry - 3 members
-Sportsmen's groups - 3 members
-Non-consumptive wildlife interests - 2 members
-Federal land management agencies - 1 member
-Utah Association of Counties - 1 member
-Utah Chapters of the Society of Range Management and The Wildlife Society - 1 member
The Wildlife Board Nominating Committee is a very important group because it nominates potential candidates for opening on the Wildlife Board. The Governor then chooses from those nominated candidates to fill any open positions.
So once again, does anyone know who is currently serving on the Wildlife Board Nominating Committee? I could not find a list of members anywhere online.
-Hawkeye-
According to Utah Code Section 23-14-2.5, there is a Wildlife Board Nominating Committee which consists of 11 Members from the following groups:
-Agriculture industry - 3 members
-Sportsmen's groups - 3 members
-Non-consumptive wildlife interests - 2 members
-Federal land management agencies - 1 member
-Utah Association of Counties - 1 member
-Utah Chapters of the Society of Range Management and The Wildlife Society - 1 member
The Wildlife Board Nominating Committee is a very important group because it nominates potential candidates for opening on the Wildlife Board. The Governor then chooses from those nominated candidates to fill any open positions.
So once again, does anyone know who is currently serving on the Wildlife Board Nominating Committee? I could not find a list of members anywhere online.
-Hawkeye-
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Seems there's many on the Hill that are willing to listen.
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Seems there's many on the Hill that are willing to listen.
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Steve Dalton and Calvin Crandall are both ranchers and represent agriculture on the board. I believe that just because they are members of one group or another won't cause any undue influence on them as they weigh their decisions.
Steve Dalton and Calvin Crandall are both ranchers and represent agriculture on the board. I believe that just because they are members of one group or another won't cause any undue influence on them as they weigh their decisions.
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Hawkeye got your link for you. A handful of SFW faithful in service on this committee too.
http://gva1.utah.gov/boards/board.aspx?id=101846
Hawkeye got your link for you. A handful of SFW faithful in service on this committee too.
http://gva1.utah.gov/boards/board.aspx?id=101846
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Only if you think that people believe EVERYTHING that organization wants. I've seen John Bair vote against things that the SFW recommended. To think that people who belong to a certain organization are 100% in lock step with its views is not realistic.
Only if you think that people believe EVERYTHING that organization wants. I've seen John Bair vote against things that the SFW recommended. To think that people who belong to a certain organization are 100% in lock step with its views is not realistic.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Rich, I don't think anyone said these guys would vote in lock step with SFW on all issues. However, it seems reasonable to assume that when 4 out of the 7 Wildlife Board Members have strong SFW ties (including two former SFW presidents), it will probably have an impact on the decisions made by the Wildlife Board. Particularly on those issues where SFW is strongly advocating for a certain position.
-Hawkeye-
Rich, I don't think anyone said these guys would vote in lock step with SFW on all issues. However, it seems reasonable to assume that when 4 out of the 7 Wildlife Board Members have strong SFW ties (including two former SFW presidents), it will probably have an impact on the decisions made by the Wildlife Board. Particularly on those issues where SFW is strongly advocating for a certain position.
-Hawkeye-
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,111
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
>Steve Dalton and Calvin Crandall are
>both ranchers and represent agriculture
>on the board. I believe
>that just because they are
>members of one group or
>another won't cause any undue
>influence on them as they
>weigh their decisions.
I think you missed my point! I too don't believe they would think or vote the same simply because they are in the same organization. Quite the reverse! They are in the same organization because they have the same mindset. Over and over again we've heard from Muley73 and DC and others that they joined SFW because they finally found a group that agreed with their ideas of wildlife management. And that's why they're still involved. The mindset came before the SFW membership and before the Wildlife Board membership. And because 4 of the Board members joined the same group is enough to conclude they will likely think and vote the same way. Maybe not on every issue, but the overall/long term objective of creating more quality, ie; trophy hunts that's being promoted by SFW would take a bigger toll on opportunity hunts if it's allowed to prevail.
>Steve Dalton and Calvin Crandall are
>both ranchers and represent agriculture
>on the board. I believe
>that just because they are
>members of one group or
>another won't cause any undue
>influence on them as they
>weigh their decisions.
I think you missed my point! I too don't believe they would think or vote the same simply because they are in the same organization. Quite the reverse! They are in the same organization because they have the same mindset. Over and over again we've heard from Muley73 and DC and others that they joined SFW because they finally found a group that agreed with their ideas of wildlife management. And that's why they're still involved. The mindset came before the SFW membership and before the Wildlife Board membership. And because 4 of the Board members joined the same group is enough to conclude they will likely think and vote the same way. Maybe not on every issue, but the overall/long term objective of creating more quality, ie; trophy hunts that's being promoted by SFW would take a bigger toll on opportunity hunts if it's allowed to prevail.
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
It is interesting to listen to the complaining about who is on the Wildlife Board and what they might do. It is also interesting to see that those complaining are not doing anything to prepare themselves for the Wildlife Board. How many applied for a RAC this time around. That is one of the things that the nominating committee looks at. With the constant complaining being done you would think that more of you would apply for the RACS or other committees that the DWR has out there. If you are going to do nothing to put yourself in a position you could apply for the wildlife board, then it is your fault as those on the board did what was needed to get there and not just complain.
It is interesting to listen to the complaining about who is on the Wildlife Board and what they might do. It is also interesting to see that those complaining are not doing anything to prepare themselves for the Wildlife Board. How many applied for a RAC this time around. That is one of the things that the nominating committee looks at. With the constant complaining being done you would think that more of you would apply for the RACS or other committees that the DWR has out there. If you are going to do nothing to put yourself in a position you could apply for the wildlife board, then it is your fault as those on the board did what was needed to get there and not just complain.
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Didn't know I was a heavy hitter is SFW. Just a little guy. I am sure if he has been on a rac and active in other groups as is needed for the wildlife board, IF SFW will not nominate him, I am sure some group will. Never know until he tries. Same with you. You can make fun of me all that you want, but sitting back and not organizing but just making a statement will get you somewhere if you say the right thing. But complaining on mm while members of the wildlife board read what is said and how they talk about the wildlife board will get you no where.
Didn't know I was a heavy hitter is SFW. Just a little guy. I am sure if he has been on a rac and active in other groups as is needed for the wildlife board, IF SFW will not nominate him, I am sure some group will. Never know until he tries. Same with you. You can make fun of me all that you want, but sitting back and not organizing but just making a statement will get you somewhere if you say the right thing. But complaining on mm while members of the wildlife board read what is said and how they talk about the wildlife board will get you no where.
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Ken-
I was not making fun of you, and I apologize if you took it that way. Based upon your comments, I assume that you are heavily involved with SFW. Given that RAC candidates must be nominated by a conservation organization or other recognized group, I was wondering if groups like SFW ever nominate non-members or individuals who have opinions that differ from the SFW agenda. That requirement might explain the current makeup of our RACs and Wildlife Board.
With regard to your statement about Wildlife Board Members reading these comments, I certainly hope they read these comments and understand how the general public feels about the process. As public servants, they have an obligation to listen to the opinions of those they serve. I have been critical of some of the decisions made by these folks but I try to keep my comments professional and avoid personal attacks. You know the old rule, don't post anything on the web about another person that you would know be willing to say to their face.
-Hawkeye-
Ken-
I was not making fun of you, and I apologize if you took it that way. Based upon your comments, I assume that you are heavily involved with SFW. Given that RAC candidates must be nominated by a conservation organization or other recognized group, I was wondering if groups like SFW ever nominate non-members or individuals who have opinions that differ from the SFW agenda. That requirement might explain the current makeup of our RACs and Wildlife Board.
With regard to your statement about Wildlife Board Members reading these comments, I certainly hope they read these comments and understand how the general public feels about the process. As public servants, they have an obligation to listen to the opinions of those they serve. I have been critical of some of the decisions made by these folks but I try to keep my comments professional and avoid personal attacks. You know the old rule, don't post anything on the web about another person that you would know be willing to say to their face.
-Hawkeye-
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Thats funny chit HAWK..
Mouth sprayed coffee all over the iMac. It needed a cleaning anyway!!
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Thats funny chit HAWK..
Mouth sprayed coffee all over the iMac. It needed a cleaning anyway!!
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Hawkeye, You are right that they must be nominated by a group. Not just SFW, but RMEF, MD, Pheasants forever, Ducks Unlimited, a city counsel, Farming organizations, UWC, Fishing organizations, Utah bowman, FNAS, Hogle Zoo, and the list goes on. So because you do not belong to SFW or another conservation group does not limit your application. Does SFW ever nominate someone that is not a member? That I can not say. The fact is, it is not limited to hunting groups.
Reason I know that they read MM, is because there are comments mentioned like when someone said, the board is a bunch of old men sleeping during the board meeting. Or different things that are said that downgrade the board and are brought up at board meeting in a quick remark. The question was brought up about Calvin Crandall and Steve Dalton being SFW members. Don't know one way or the other, never checked. I do know that during the antlerless board meeting, they totally went against what SFW wanted. Never heard SFW complain about it but just say, next time maybe things will be different. They do not make a big deal of it. An example, how many times has John Bair gone against SFW because he felt like the people deserved something else. The board does what they think is right.
Hawkeye, You are right that they must be nominated by a group. Not just SFW, but RMEF, MD, Pheasants forever, Ducks Unlimited, a city counsel, Farming organizations, UWC, Fishing organizations, Utah bowman, FNAS, Hogle Zoo, and the list goes on. So because you do not belong to SFW or another conservation group does not limit your application. Does SFW ever nominate someone that is not a member? That I can not say. The fact is, it is not limited to hunting groups.
Reason I know that they read MM, is because there are comments mentioned like when someone said, the board is a bunch of old men sleeping during the board meeting. Or different things that are said that downgrade the board and are brought up at board meeting in a quick remark. The question was brought up about Calvin Crandall and Steve Dalton being SFW members. Don't know one way or the other, never checked. I do know that during the antlerless board meeting, they totally went against what SFW wanted. Never heard SFW complain about it but just say, next time maybe things will be different. They do not make a big deal of it. An example, how many times has John Bair gone against SFW because he felt like the people deserved something else. The board does what they think is right.
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
RAC's are composed of individuals nominated by wildlife organizations, Farm Bureau, Gov't agencies, county commissions, non-consumptive groups etc. There is a wide variety, and rightly so, of interests and concerns that are represented on the RAC's. After UWC was formed there were a couple of new members appointed to the CRAC. They are passionate and hard working. It seems that the balance of "opportunity" and "trophy" hunting gets equal stage time in our discussions. I believe the RAC members, no matter what their affiliations may be, strive to achieve a balance that will give everyone at least a part of what they want. Public comment at RACs has changed my mind in a number of instances because they brought information and views that I hadn't thought of or had not been privy to. The system certainly is not perfect but if there is anyone who thinks that one organization can dictate the course of a discussion or the voting that follows, probably hasn't had an opportunity to be involved. For one, I am just thankful that as sportsman we have an opportunity to be in involved in the process and make a difference. My thanks goes out to all the organizations and individuals who spend their time and their effort to make this a better state to enjoy and cherish our wildlife heritage, now and for future generations.
RAC's are composed of individuals nominated by wildlife organizations, Farm Bureau, Gov't agencies, county commissions, non-consumptive groups etc. There is a wide variety, and rightly so, of interests and concerns that are represented on the RAC's. After UWC was formed there were a couple of new members appointed to the CRAC. They are passionate and hard working. It seems that the balance of "opportunity" and "trophy" hunting gets equal stage time in our discussions. I believe the RAC members, no matter what their affiliations may be, strive to achieve a balance that will give everyone at least a part of what they want. Public comment at RACs has changed my mind in a number of instances because they brought information and views that I hadn't thought of or had not been privy to. The system certainly is not perfect but if there is anyone who thinks that one organization can dictate the course of a discussion or the voting that follows, probably hasn't had an opportunity to be involved. For one, I am just thankful that as sportsman we have an opportunity to be in involved in the process and make a difference. My thanks goes out to all the organizations and individuals who spend their time and their effort to make this a better state to enjoy and cherish our wildlife heritage, now and for future generations.
shotgunjim
Active Member
- Messages
- 969
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
I hope the Wildlife Board and RAC members read these posts, so they can see that everyone knows they're a fricken joke.
No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura
chancho sucio.
I hope the Wildlife Board and RAC members read these posts, so they can see that everyone knows they're a fricken joke.
No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura
chancho sucio.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,785
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-15 AT 09:10AM (MST)[p]elkfromabove,
See again you misread the big picture. You say that I support the SFW because I finally found an organization that had the same views as me? That is where you are making assumptions and dead wrong Lee. I still to this day to not have the same mind set as the SFW on many issues. What I found was a group that had an actual voice and could actually help get things done. So I have used that voice to push for changes I would like to see made. You see I like to get results not just complain on the interweb. Many times I have had napkin meetings that never gain support,(multi units was shot down by SFW multiple times before they finally supported Opt 2) some good ideas and some probably not so good. But once that idea is started and it gathers some support from other sportsman where does it go? What do you do with it? Take it to the RAC? Email a state rep or the DWR? Sure you can do all of those things. Once you feel that support gathering some momentum you start to push it harder. You may go to the SFW and ask for their support. Sometimes you get it sometimes you don't. But once you get that support it gives you a bigger voice where it matters, with the state reps, the DWR, the RACs the WB. So no I did not find an organization that always supports my views, I found an organization that has a real voice. So I work to get them to support the ideas I have and the changes I would like to see happen. I have no more say (often times less) than anyone else wanting to see change. I have just found a way to push for my agendas and ideas. I'm just using the system the way it is set up. Anybody is free to do the same. Its how politics works and this is all about politics.....why? Because in the end it is government run.
The truth is Lee the SFW and myself don't see eye to eye in a big way on many issues. I think you'd be surprised on what I personally would like to see change and happen with our big game hunting in Utah. I can assure you many in the SFW would not totally agree. But my views and ideas are nothing by themselves. They need support and so I choose my battles and run them within the system that is available.
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-15 AT 09:10AM (MST)[p]elkfromabove,
See again you misread the big picture. You say that I support the SFW because I finally found an organization that had the same views as me? That is where you are making assumptions and dead wrong Lee. I still to this day to not have the same mind set as the SFW on many issues. What I found was a group that had an actual voice and could actually help get things done. So I have used that voice to push for changes I would like to see made. You see I like to get results not just complain on the interweb. Many times I have had napkin meetings that never gain support,(multi units was shot down by SFW multiple times before they finally supported Opt 2) some good ideas and some probably not so good. But once that idea is started and it gathers some support from other sportsman where does it go? What do you do with it? Take it to the RAC? Email a state rep or the DWR? Sure you can do all of those things. Once you feel that support gathering some momentum you start to push it harder. You may go to the SFW and ask for their support. Sometimes you get it sometimes you don't. But once you get that support it gives you a bigger voice where it matters, with the state reps, the DWR, the RACs the WB. So no I did not find an organization that always supports my views, I found an organization that has a real voice. So I work to get them to support the ideas I have and the changes I would like to see happen. I have no more say (often times less) than anyone else wanting to see change. I have just found a way to push for my agendas and ideas. I'm just using the system the way it is set up. Anybody is free to do the same. Its how politics works and this is all about politics.....why? Because in the end it is government run.
The truth is Lee the SFW and myself don't see eye to eye in a big way on many issues. I think you'd be surprised on what I personally would like to see change and happen with our big game hunting in Utah. I can assure you many in the SFW would not totally agree. But my views and ideas are nothing by themselves. They need support and so I choose my battles and run them within the system that is available.
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,785
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
shotgunjim,
Joke? I'll ask you this....who's laughing? Because those not supporting them are not, they are whining and crying...everyday on the interweb.
The WB and RACs are putting in the time and effort to make the changes and support the future they feel passionate about. The joke is believing that any of this interweb banter makes a difference in the real world.
shotgunjim,
Joke? I'll ask you this....who's laughing? Because those not supporting them are not, they are whining and crying...everyday on the interweb.
The WB and RACs are putting in the time and effort to make the changes and support the future they feel passionate about. The joke is believing that any of this interweb banter makes a difference in the real world.
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Nebo, remember the first elk committee meeting in Salt Lake a few years back
When Karpowitz addressed the group and told all of us " Utah's elk is like Nordstroms, don't turn the herd into Walmart" and also during the meetings
To consider the "Conservation Permit value"?? I sure do.
Next question.
What % of Utah's hunters actually belong to a group?
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Nebo, remember the first elk committee meeting in Salt Lake a few years back
When Karpowitz addressed the group and told all of us " Utah's elk is like Nordstroms, don't turn the herd into Walmart" and also during the meetings
To consider the "Conservation Permit value"?? I sure do.
Next question.
What % of Utah's hunters actually belong to a group?
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
wileywapiti stated: Nebo, remember the first elk committee meeting in Salt Lake a few years back When Karpowitz addressed the group and told all of us "Utah's elk is like Nordstroms, don't turn the herd into Walmart" and also during the meetings to consider the "Conservation Permit value"?? "
That right there is what you call the tail wagging the dog.
-Hawkeye-
wileywapiti stated: Nebo, remember the first elk committee meeting in Salt Lake a few years back When Karpowitz addressed the group and told all of us "Utah's elk is like Nordstroms, don't turn the herd into Walmart" and also during the meetings to consider the "Conservation Permit value"?? "
That right there is what you call the tail wagging the dog.
-Hawkeye-
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Bird, I'm not going to run down my resume for you
But to say I've not been involved and just whine would
Be a very inaccurate statement.
Back to my point, why do the 95% plus of Utah's hunters have no say
Because they don't subscribe to a chosen mouthpiece of an org??
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Bird, I'm not going to run down my resume for you
But to say I've not been involved and just whine would
Be a very inaccurate statement.
Back to my point, why do the 95% plus of Utah's hunters have no say
Because they don't subscribe to a chosen mouthpiece of an org??
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Easy there Ken. I would support a very limited number of conservation permits to help fund conservation activities. That is why most western states have a limited number of governor tags available for action or raffle. The problem is that Utah has taken this to a whole new level with 330+ conservation permits, plus the 200 expo tags. Is hunting in Utah that much better than surrounding states as a result these high dollar tags? My comment, however, was actually directed at another issue.
The supposed purpose for conservation tags and expo tags is to generate monies for wildlife conservation activities. However, the creation of these tags and the money generated therefrom has led to host of other problems, including a situation where the DWR and the conservation groups may be making wildlife management decisions based at least in part on economic motivations instead of biology, science and sound conservation principles. It has also created a situation where the groups who facilitate the sale of these tags have obtained increased power and influence over the decision making process or as some would say, "a louder voice." Hence, the tail may be wagging the dog.
-Hawkeye-
Easy there Ken. I would support a very limited number of conservation permits to help fund conservation activities. That is why most western states have a limited number of governor tags available for action or raffle. The problem is that Utah has taken this to a whole new level with 330+ conservation permits, plus the 200 expo tags. Is hunting in Utah that much better than surrounding states as a result these high dollar tags? My comment, however, was actually directed at another issue.
The supposed purpose for conservation tags and expo tags is to generate monies for wildlife conservation activities. However, the creation of these tags and the money generated therefrom has led to host of other problems, including a situation where the DWR and the conservation groups may be making wildlife management decisions based at least in part on economic motivations instead of biology, science and sound conservation principles. It has also created a situation where the groups who facilitate the sale of these tags have obtained increased power and influence over the decision making process or as some would say, "a louder voice." Hence, the tail may be wagging the dog.
-Hawkeye-
TR175
Active Member
- Messages
- 141
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
>Easy there Ken. I would
>support a very limited number
>of conservation permits to help
>fund conservation activities. That
>is why most western states
>have a limited number of
>governor tags available for action
>or raffle. The problem
>is that Utah has taken
>this to a whole new
>level with 330+ conservation permits,
>plus the 200 expo tags.
> Is hunting in Utah
>that much better than surrounding
>states as a result these
>high dollar tags?
This has been my main question for many years Hawkeye, but there has yet to be one of these SFW (Salaries From Wildlife)supporters that can answer that. They also have a tough time answering why none of the other Western States allow SFW or BGF to make a presence in their states.
I can't wait for the "beat around the bush" answer I get, if I get a reply at all.
>Easy there Ken. I would
>support a very limited number
>of conservation permits to help
>fund conservation activities. That
>is why most western states
>have a limited number of
>governor tags available for action
>or raffle. The problem
>is that Utah has taken
>this to a whole new
>level with 330+ conservation permits,
>plus the 200 expo tags.
> Is hunting in Utah
>that much better than surrounding
>states as a result these
>high dollar tags?
This has been my main question for many years Hawkeye, but there has yet to be one of these SFW (Salaries From Wildlife)supporters that can answer that. They also have a tough time answering why none of the other Western States allow SFW or BGF to make a presence in their states.
I can't wait for the "beat around the bush" answer I get, if I get a reply at all.
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Back to my point, why do the 95% plus of Utah's hunters have no say
Because they don't subscribe to a chosen mouthpiece of an org??
First of all I have a hard time believing that 95% of sportsmen do not belong to an organization. There is so many organizations out there. There are RAC and Wildlfe Board meetings that anyone can voice their opinion if they belong to a group or not. Wiley, glad that you are getting involved on the issues.
As for the conservation tag issues, I am well aware of other states using tags to raise money. Many of those tags come to the expo because they can get more money for them.. They are involved in some transplants and some conservation. One thing is for sure, NONE of them are accomplishing what Utah is doing for habitat work and relocation of wildlife creating new herds to be hunted in the near future. None of this is new to MM people. They just think different. Isn't it great that we all do not think alike. That is what keeps the world turning.
Back to my point, why do the 95% plus of Utah's hunters have no say
Because they don't subscribe to a chosen mouthpiece of an org??
First of all I have a hard time believing that 95% of sportsmen do not belong to an organization. There is so many organizations out there. There are RAC and Wildlfe Board meetings that anyone can voice their opinion if they belong to a group or not. Wiley, glad that you are getting involved on the issues.
As for the conservation tag issues, I am well aware of other states using tags to raise money. Many of those tags come to the expo because they can get more money for them.. They are involved in some transplants and some conservation. One thing is for sure, NONE of them are accomplishing what Utah is doing for habitat work and relocation of wildlife creating new herds to be hunted in the near future. None of this is new to MM people. They just think different. Isn't it great that we all do not think alike. That is what keeps the world turning.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,074
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Once again ww!
You've STIRRED it!
We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
Once again ww!
You've STIRRED it!
We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
Me STIR??? C'mon CAT you know better.
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Me STIR??? C'mon CAT you know better.
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
azbullhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 386
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
SFW was almost in AZ but we saw what they were like in Utah so we kicked them out. AZ game and fish is funded 100% from license fees so no fat cats have taken over
SFW was almost in AZ but we saw what they were like in Utah so we kicked them out. AZ game and fish is funded 100% from license fees so no fat cats have taken over
Hawkeye
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,014
RE: Wildlife Board or SFW Board
You boys in AZ were wise to the push back at the outset. Unfortunately, once they get a foothold in your state and start tapping into premium tags it is difficult to overcome the money, power and influence they generate.
-Hawkeye-
You boys in AZ were wise to the push back at the outset. Unfortunately, once they get a foothold in your state and start tapping into premium tags it is difficult to overcome the money, power and influence they generate.
-Hawkeye-
Broadside_Shot
Active Member
- Messages
- 590
>Broadside,
>So why don't you have him
>buy one of the left
>over archery tags? Or
>buy an OTC elk tag?
>or apply for antlerless?
>I just do not understand
>this thought process I guess.
>
He did buy a left over tag. He got the Box Elder Tag. Exactly where we were hoping to draw for Archery. Thank Goodness for the Extended Hunts but I'm sure someone will want them taken away also.
He also bought a Rifle Spike Elk Tag.
>So why don't you have him
>buy one of the left
>over archery tags? Or
>buy an OTC elk tag?
>or apply for antlerless?
>I just do not understand
>this thought process I guess.
>
He did buy a left over tag. He got the Box Elder Tag. Exactly where we were hoping to draw for Archery. Thank Goodness for the Extended Hunts but I'm sure someone will want them taken away also.
He also bought a Rifle Spike Elk Tag.
Broadside_Shot
Active Member
- Messages
- 590
>>Broadside,
>>So why don't you have him
>>buy one of the left
>>over archery tags? Or
>>buy an OTC elk tag?
>>or apply for antlerless?
>>I just do not understand
>>this thought process I guess.
>>
>No kidding. There are still plenty
>of tags to be had.
>
>
>There's always next year
He did buy a left over tag. He got the Box Elder Tag. Exactly where we were hoping to draw for Archery. Thank Goodness for the Extended Hunts but I'm sure someone will want them taken away also.
He also bought a Rifle Spike Elk Tag.
>>So why don't you have him
>>buy one of the left
>>over archery tags? Or
>>buy an OTC elk tag?
>>or apply for antlerless?
>>I just do not understand
>>this thought process I guess.
>>
>No kidding. There are still plenty
>of tags to be had.
>
>
>There's always next year
He did buy a left over tag. He got the Box Elder Tag. Exactly where we were hoping to draw for Archery. Thank Goodness for the Extended Hunts but I'm sure someone will want them taken away also.
He also bought a Rifle Spike Elk Tag.
![IMG_0444[2444].jpeg](/xf/data/xfmg/thumbnail/26/26008-aa5bca5d2a3176ded5b358a72bce2ffb.jpg?1658505755)
