LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-12 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-12
>AT 01:49?PM (MST)
>
>SlingingLead, That is a mentality
>that drives me bonkers.
>Enviros will ignore all the
>erosion created by the Yellowstone
>fires because it is "natural."
>They won't tell you about
>the landscape architect that made
>a fortune in Yellowstone after
>the fires because of all
>the "rehabilitation" work. They
>talked about all the new
>growth and flowers. If
>a logging company does a
>small clear cut we hear
>about erosion and scars, nothing
>about flowers and new growth.
> Man can do some
>great things with the land.
>
>
>I think the argument that we
>have bigger fires now because
>we fight fires is mostly
>crap. We have bigger
>fires now because of cheatgrass.
> Take cheatgrass out of
>the equation and we'll have
>smaller fires again.
>
>I drive I15 a lot through
>Utah. This place is
>way more burned over in
>the past 10 years than
>it was in the 80's
>and 90's. Some places
>have burned 2 and 3
>times - all huge fires.
> So there goes the
>fire suppression leads to bigger
>fires argument as far as
>I'm concerned.
>
>Fire seems to have helped just
>north of Beaver. But
>people still complaing that the
>overall hunting in the Unit
>sucks. One could argue Utah
>Hill is better.
>
>Huge fires have not helped the
>south side of Pine Valley.
> The Pahvant hasn't exactly
>improved from fire. I
>don't know if the Wastch
>Front from Santaquin to Alpine
>has more deer now either.
>
>
>I took a class on wildland
>fires in college. I've
>concluded people can believe whatever
>they want about fire and
>can find some science to
>back it up. All
>I know is Utah has
>burned way more in the
>past 10 years, fires are
>much bigger, and are more
>frequennt, yet people still complain
>about shrinking deer herds.
>Apparently, our deer herd has
>a bigger problem than lack
>of fire.
the last 40 years has had heavy fire suppression leading to a build up of fuel for fires to get outt control and not burn themselves out. a healthy range will burn its self out when there is no more fuel to burn! if fire runss over a cheatgrass burn over and over, it is still realeasing nitrogen into the soil and grasses and forbes come bnack again.
im glad you think they dont help casue then you wont hunt the burns and can leave them too me.
We had a burn on our range 2 and a half years ago. if it did not burn there would be no feed whatsoever this year for elk deer mustang cows or anything with out that fire! we have had grass 3-4 tall on that burn last year and year before. this year there was so much left from last year that most of the animals are utilizing that old feed . there is very little green(just about 3-4 inches high) without that burn beibng well established like that it would be bad!
that burn turned our worst pasture and i mean absolute worst, no animals on it and hard to keep a cow up there, and it is now our best pasture on our entire range! ive seen way more deer on it, absolute astonishing amounts of elk and still room for cows and mustangs. howevert aht pasture would still be worthlesswithout us ranching on it. there is practically no water in that area, one little spring that may surface for a month a year. we ranabout 7 miles of pipeline from our private property and run a well off of a generator to allow water on that burn. however during the wetter years that last 2 years there was enough water runoff not getting absorbed and abused by pj and sage to make it into the ponds we built. they dont hold water all year but for a couple months they will hold water. this year as dry as it is the only water is the stuff we are pumping out there.
cheatgrass is green and useable for 2-3 months outta the year. it is for more usuable then sage or pj. its not an ideal feed but it does not consume all the water laike sage and pj and it provides some food. albeit its not super nutrious like other range grasses, it is enough for cattle to survive on in early spring until the other grasses catch up.
if reseeding is done in cheatgrass rich environments with plants that can compete with cheatgrass, such as crested wheatgrass, intermediate wheat... etc the cheat grasss stays at bay. one critical thing i have noticed on burns is the areas that get disturbed by railing trees etc do far better then areas that just get seed dropped on them and not railed. the cheatgrass establishes faster sometimes when the ground goews undisturbed.
is cheatgrass an ideal feed? no! but it is far better then pj! itss a case of the lesser of 2 evils!
a fire that is not reseeded in cheatgrass zone, will grow alot of cheatgrass, but there is also alot of native that comes in and is more usuable then the previous pj and old sage stands that were replaced