Wolf atttack(?)

[gdog]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=825_1198391329

 

[ELKOHUNTER]

were my dog well go runing. oh and the 44

 

[3blade]

time to start packing heat

 

[MortgageMan]

Shoot a couple of them and they will be afraid. I guarantee you that.

 

[CAelknuts]

Wouldn't it be great for two or three buddies up there to take their dogs for a walk there, while carrying a couple pistols and maybe a rifle? They could take care of the problem quickly and boy would that start up a firestorm between the wolf lovers in Alaska, and common sense people who realize what a threat these wolves represent. The entire pack should be killed, asap.

 

[Saskman]

Here is a link to an attack that happened up here in B.C. recently. A little different ending though.

http://www.menoutdoors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7554

Saskman

 

[WyoXtec]

Such fine furry little ceatures.

They fit right into the modern ecosystem, kinda like a Tyranosaurus Rex, maybe the anti's should clone and "re-introduce" them. Years down the road a few permits might even be issued, whoever drew the tags might have to take turns borrowing BOBCAT'S new gun.

 

[kingfish]

I love the wilderness being wild!!!Awesome. It's amazing, people are warned and they still go jogging where wolves live!! with their dogs no less!!! Maybe people are to blame??? If your that stupid you deserve to watch your dog be eaten by a wolf... Stupid is, stupid does.

 

[Gator]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-07 AT 05:41PM (MST)[p]Maybe if you go for a jog with your little son or daughter you can watch the same thing,Just because you live in a area don't mean your food for them.That sucking sound your hearing is you pulling your head out of your ass. You should have that saying tattoo on your forehead.

Now you Have a Merry X-mas and a nice New year.

 

[huntinco]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-07 AT 06:11PM (MST)[p]kingfish, usually I don't say things like this but I really don't like you.



Justin Richins
R&K Hunting Company Inc.
www.thehuntingcompany.com

 

[gb22]

Absolute documentation for wolves attacking and partially consuming a perfectly healthy 24-year old man. This all occurred with 400 yards of the pizza parlor/pub from which the "rescuers" arrived.....too late. Tracks showed he had run and been dragged down a couple of times. He was unable to regain his feet the third time. There were three wolves.

That's the only death of which I'm aware, but the same article had names, addresses and instances for 18 other attacks on humans. These were not "provoked", they were what comes natural to wolves.

(I kind of like that tyrannosaurus idea, if I can have the first tag.)

 

[ironhead]

I have seen some dumb statements on this site but, Kingfish you
really are someting else. Why don't you read Saskmans link and actually put some thought into what you are saying. UNBELEIVABLE

 

[Huck58]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-07 AT 10:06PM (MST)[p]Livestock are considerd personal property by the feds, and some protection is allowed in some places. But your dog is fair game, to date 70 dogs have been killed by wolves, that's family pets,hunting dogs, and livestock dogs. Wolves running lose have nothing to do with wilderness or wilderness experience! And people who think so, spend little if any time in a wilderness, and have no clue. You see, you have to get further than the road ditch!

Some people need to remember, "It is better to be thought a fool, than open thier mouth (or type) and remove all doubt!

 

[nv_hunter]

So glad we dont have them here. Just those big black coyotes all the ranchers are killing....haha

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-07 AT 11:24PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-07 AT 11:23?PM (MST)

Geeze Gator, I'm gonna loose sleep over that comment. I'm not here to agree with everybody. I don't even care if you like me!! Nobody in this post is talking about kids being attacked. Come on girls stick to the post.

Hey Huck, that would be "THEIR" mouth (type)lmao!!!but when your right, your right!!!

 

[Huck58]

Yeah, you pretty much remove all doubt!

 

[Gator]

Your right your not here to agree with anyone.
Do you really think I care about if you lose sleep, Must think your some-one, No maybe you shouldn't post and drink at the same time. You would be on this bandwagon if it wasn't a dog and it was achild What you don't think those people up there have Kids those wolves need to be KILLED,Read my Lips KILLED, SHOT,TRAPPED,REMOVED you get the picture. That not a wilderness as you keep calling it, Any place less then a day's ride isn't wilderness since a wolf can travel 50-60 miles in a day.

We give up you win the spelling bee. How's your Head.

 

[kingfish]

yawn!!! Oh sorry GATOR, were you talking???? Remember, you have to be someone to hurt my feelings!!!! Just poking fun Gator. Merry Christmas.

 

[hotdiggity]

I was in that area near Artillary road about 2 weeks ago and it's pretty evident wolves are in the area (I didn't see any since they had an active range going on). It's on Fort Rich and not Elmendorf as the link suggests.

As for this particular pack some need to be culled to get them afraid of people again. Typically I'd say if your in the woods with your dog in Alaska without a leash and it gets killed TS, in this case the dogs were on leashes and the wolves weren't afraid of people so no good is going to come of it. This particular area really isn't all that "wild", it's isolated on the west side of the highway, maybe 60-90 square miles of base (check it out on google earth). What we're seeing is wolves becoming acclimated to people, just like the case of the man being attacked near the dump in BC or the Northwest Territories. Like most dangerous animals, familiarity with humans can cause a lot of trouble.

 

[kingfish]

Hopefully the feds will wake up!!!! hotdiggity I agree.

 

[mntman]

I have to agree with Kingfish's earlier statement to a degree. If you want to live in the country you have to be willing to accept encounters with wolves or any other wild animal. If you aren't willing then keep your @$$ in the city. On the other hand when wolves or any animal lose their fear of humans, people come first so that specific animal(s) must be removed be it a wolf, lion or even worse a a mouse

As a kid I lived in wolf country and our dogs were never on a leash or fenced. Nearly lost one dog to a wolf(that we know of) but that is just a chance you must accept.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[slamdunk]

My buddy was out near Pinedale Wyoming two weeks ago doing some concrete work and saw was was undoubtedly a wolf.
He popped off two rounds with his .204 but was so excited, he missed.

This guy is an avid coyote hunter, shoots & hunts competitively, so he knew what he was looking at. Said it was big, tall and almost all black.
He was surprised it was all alone though, and out on the open sage brush very far from any cover or mountains whatsoever.








Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[gb22]

Kingfish,

So, in your little world, the importance of a human being attacked for predation is determined by the age. Is the value of all people determined by their age? If so, at what age does one become valuable? Is there an age when one become less valuable?

Seems as if those are the same questions Adoph and friends answered 60 years ago.

 

[gb22]

Slamdunk, to those of us who live here, that is not all that uncommon. There are many more wolves than are admitted to and they are much more widely spread.

People should not have their entire way of life (last several generations) turned upside down by people who live in (fill in whichever city you choose) making rules on an issue about which they have zero knowledge...regardless of their degree.

 

[kingfish]

I don't know what the hell your talking about and neither do you. I have never advocated wolves over people!!!If YOU ALL WOULD STICK TO THE POST!! This one is about people walking their dogs in well known wolf areas..I have a black lab that I hunt and would never put her in danger of being attacked by jogging with her (leash or not)in wolf country...HELLO!!!! It makes it really hard to defend hunters when some of you fellas say the stupid thing you do!!!My hunting buddies, my family, even some non hunting friends read these posts and think your a bunch of idiots. If your going to live in country that has big predators atleast be smart enough to take precautions for your pets...I have never once said a wolf is more important then a human but I'm beginning to rethink that!! (wink)

 

[Gator]

my dad always said
" You should never argue with a idiot they will drag down to their level and beat ya with experience every time."

 

[gb22]

Yes, kingfish, you did say it would be sad if the wolves attacked kids. In actuality, they have attacked and killed (adult) humans. You seem not to even recognize that fact.

The comments you make are rude (some of us have followed suit) and obviously intended to incite. OK. But you also make comments that show almost no understanding for the facts of life with large predators; where DO you live? Some of us have lived with large predators our entire lives and do so quite happily. The wolves, their fanatical protection and rapidly-increasing populations has changed the dynamics and is rapidly changing the levels of the prey species. There should be NOTHING that infringes on the long-time lifestyle of people who have lived here for generations. Someone believing that is just as absurd as are those that say "put them back into central park". Actually, to those that live here, it is very similar....except in central park, someone would be allowed to take common-sense action to address the issue. Common sense has been completely voided by "wolf supporters" in favor of absolutism...the concept that the out-of-area manager has absolute discretion on everything and only they have the ability to make a reasonable decision.

 

[hotdiggity]

Within the last 100 years there has only been one (that I know of) documented fatal wolf attack on a human that happened in 2005 in Saskatchewan (I was wrong about the location in a previous post). If you want to get down to the nitty gritty on how wolves are dangerous for people we should get rid of the greater threats first, i.e. horses, livestock, dogs, mountain lions, bison, moose, bears, etc. Your argument on that fact is moot.

Your other argument holds merit though. I think the folks in the greater Yellowstone area got kind of a raw deal since they were under the assumption that wolves would be delisted and could be managed. Wyoming's predator proposal did a lot more harm than good, someone should be kicked in the nuts for that one. If a limited hunting season or management proposal had been produced I doubt there would have been as much outcry (eventhough the greenies still would have cried and he hawed). However, ranchers and folks being compensated from the wolf kills need to quit their bitching and man up. You're still getting money and your livelihood is still in tact, get over it.

 

[Gator]

Do you know MOST WOLF kills are contested(all) by the F&G and the WOLF people and those ranchers that are getting paid and should be COWBOY up AREN'T getting paid, Please find out how many ranchers have been paid for their loss, VS how many claims that has been put in, I think you will be suprised on the amount. Check out the ranchers in AZ see how many cows they have lost and how many they have been reimbursed for.
Tell you what they sure are alot more forgiving then I would be.

Price per cow What is it. Purebreed vs a barnyard

 

[hotdiggity]

How many wolves are in Arizona? None. What's your point?

 

[ironhead]

Read this hotdigity
http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/wolf_reintroduction.shtml

 

[hotdiggity]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-07 AT 02:47PM (MST)[p]>How many wolves are in Arizona?
> None. What's your
>point?


Yeah, I just looked it up. Sorry for looking like a jackass. 50-60 is not all that many though. Let me know when the population gets to a couple hundred.

As for compensation, it takes my insurance a month or more to respond to a claim and I still get the run around. If someone's life is threatened, kill the damn thing, otherwise write it off as an act of God. I'm pretty sure other forms of fatalities outnumber those caused by wolves.

 

[Gator]

The point is look how much damage 50-60 wolves are doing. I would hate to see 200 down the way. Kiss all those big bulls and bucks goodbye. Wolves just don't have a place that close to people.

You will be hard press to find a rancher with your view, but I guess that is because it costing them dollars and cents, Not just some words typed out on a keybroad.

Please keep telling the world about how long it takes to get payment(never) Don't take my word for it talk to the other side and ask those ranchers when they saw the last check for the damage those wolves have done, It the same up in Wyoming/Idaho area too.

I like hearing those howls too just not down at the corral.

 

[wideone]

Cougars have killed people, and I don't hear whining about that. I do agree that the way the wolves were reintroduced was not handled correctly, but dang, I've never seen such whining from a bunch of men before in my life.
Tuggle UP!!!!

 

[Alasken]

This pack of wolves lives within the municipality of Anchorage. Dogs have been getting killed up here by wolves, both in Anchorage and the Fairbanks area. It's cool seeing them in the wild, but they're just too bold. A hunter shot and killed one about 20 miles from where these ladies were walking their dogs just the other day. Too bad he only got one.

 

[kingfish]

Wolves use to populate EVERY state in the united states as well as Europe and South America long before they were wiped out by men just like Gator (ignorant) people who really don't care about wildlife. Elk, deer, etc....where in the "good old days" during the height of wolf populations...Explain that Gator?? Your stupidity far out weighs your ignorance!!!!

 

[Huck58]

Your living in the "Good Old Days". Elk, deer and antelope hunting has never been so good. It is sliding down, 5 years back was even better. The opportunity is still very good, just hard to draw with all the competition!

Oh and just in case you didn't know kingfish, it is 2007 not 1807. Times change, and I don't really want to go back! The wolf has no purpose in the lower 48 except to limit opportunities, that so many have worked, and spent millions of $ and hours, building back up. And only to see it all flushed down the crapper because of a few nearsighted tree huggers,that would like nothing more than to see hunting come to an end. No hunting, no need for guns, no guns, all you liberals are happy!

And wolves just kill, thats it!

 

[Gator]

Some of my Heros Was the Cattle man wolfer's that roam the west in the 1800's and early 1900's. I believe they called it progress. Guess that is hard for you to swallow, So don't work yourself in a drinking binge,You get that tattoo yet. As the population grew something have to change,Fences/Farming stopped the cattle drives, railroads/Govt killed the buffalo, Soliders/Greed killed the Indians,Market hunters killed the Pigeons,Farmer and rancher moved west to settle and they changed the landscape to a Civilize land(towns,farms,ranchs) and that made those cute little cuddly wolves a big NO NO AND that is still the reason to this day they have no place in a Civilize area,That could be the same reason you don't herds of buffalo roams all over the west still too, But that's a different story for a different time.

Tip back another cold one you're starting to get a little wound-up again.

 

[kingfish]

You have a warped sense of what a hero is??? You two can't see past your selfish, self centered motives. So you think all progress is good and can't be stopped so why try?? What a couple of morons. Buffalo being wiped out was good? keep it coming girls the guys at work are getting a great laugh at your greed!!!Wound-up? don't give yourself so much credit, as your wife has probably told you, your just not that good!!!

 

[Gator]

The Guys at work, Man that great glad we could be of help to you in getting a friend or two,We do know how hard that is for you, Try not to talk much around them and you might be able to fool them for awhile and you will have a playmate or too for a couple of weeks.Facts are facts. Now have a nice day.

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-07 AT 09:30AM (MST)[p]By the way huck and gator, It's attitudes like yours that is killing hunting. The general public is not going to stand for rednecks like you two and your attitudes about indiscriminate killing of a species because it takes away from your "opportunities" IDIOTS!!!If your that afraid to be in the woods with big predators then stay home and do what your really good at?? WHINNING!! B0b folkrod (a great hunter)was on this morning darting and collering Jaguars in South America for the very same reason caring people are trying to save the wolves. He said it best when he said it's absolutly paramount to keep the predator alive and controlled to keep the balance of nature intact. Man wants to destroy nature for his own greed and you two are perfect examples of that. I'm done....some people are just stupid!!!!

 

[Gator]

About time Loudmouth.

 

[Huck58]

Wolves still have no place or good in the lower 48. And outside of that area they are not endangered, and actually right now, they are not here~!


Keep yapping kingfish! You pretty much have removed all doubt! No not pretty much, you have!~

 

[hotdiggity]

"Wolves still have no place or good in the lower 48."

Neither do rocks that can trip people and livestock up, snakes that can bite things, bears, hell anything that can harm anything or anyone. I know when I go out I want everything to be as aseptic as possible.

Screw nature, it sucks!

 

[jagrmystr]

Kingfish,

Whenever I read one of your posts this image keeps popping into my head....

 

[Huck58]

>Whenever I read one of your posts this image keeps popping >into my head....

The images pops in your head, imagine where it pops in kingfish!

 

[kingfish]

JAG, Can't blame me for your secret fetish!!! I have a feeling you have always wanted that up your buttox...Maybe you and huck can get together??He sounds gay. You two can star in your own new movie!!!! Broke back hunters!!!!

 

[jagrmystr]

Wow kingfish....that was a good one. I really dont want to get into it with you, I am no match for you intelect and creativity.
From now on im just gonna lay low and watch you make an ass of yourself from a distance.

 

[kingfish]

Well, atleast you know your limits!!! you are no match. Half right is better then completely wrong...feel better!!!

 

[Huck58]

Like I said, he has removed all doubt!
He is quite easy to lure into conversation that is out of his league! One of his fettish's is showing!

 

[kingfish]

Huck, HUH? your 6th grade analogy is only showing your inability to express your ignorance. Keep trying I'm really enjoying both of you "hunters" stepping on your manhoods "all be them both as small as your IQ's" Lure??, this has never been a conversation that would mean you two had something intelligent to add!!! That surely hasn't happened...Oh yeah, It's FETISH....Keep em coming I'm having lots of fun...

 

[Gator]

Can't even get the I'm done with this right.
Hook line and sinker.

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-07 AT 10:10PM (MST)[p]This isn't about wolves anymore and your not that smart Gator!! Give it up you amatures. I love how I can keep three on a string so easy!!! Gator , you might be the easiest?? Are you sure you three aren't in junior high?? Too easy!!

 

[Gator]

Pulled you right on in again.
Hook Line and sinker.

 

[mntman]

Here we go again, I got sick of reading all this about how all the wolves are eating your big bulls and bucks to near extinction. blah blah blah, last post I seen said there was 50-60 wolves in AZ,(sorry if that is the wrong quoted state) Minnesota has 3000+ wolves in the northeast corner of the state and their deer population is and has been near all time HIGHS for many years. :-0 looks like your analagy of your 50 wolves is killing off all your deer and elk is thrown right out the window The major factor in determining deer populations in MN is the WINTER, deep snow equals dead deer not the wolves. Oh I can hear it now, with out the wolves all the deer would survive the winter no matter how deep the snow, B.S!! they would just suffer then die a long painful death.

Wolves have a place here just as much as deer, elk, bison etc.... if they dont' here is your proof that they don't belong http://www.knbc.com/news/5133642/detail.html
Cause I think all deer should be shot also then cause they have probably killed more people in the last hundred years then wolves have

Should Wolves be MANAGED? YES just like any other big game species.
Should the ones that LOSE their fear of humans be shot? YES, just as well as any buffalo, deer, elk that attacks a human. No questions asked, if any specific animal has lost it's fear of people they should be killed.

For the anti wolf people I understand why you think they are the reason your deer/elk populations may have been dropping, but before you make a decision, learn about the subject in the proper way, not just your buddy's opionion and your Great-grandpa's stories passed down from generation to genration.
Read books, watch videos and try to understand them as you did with learning to hunt YOUR;-) elk, deer etc....


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[kingfish]

Mntman!!! I'm so glad a man of reason has joined this post. Look out, the tree huggin huck and gator will keep you spell bound with their total lack of education. They can't speak on the subject so now they are talking about fishing...Duh!! Seriously, Mntman you are dead on correct.

 

[Huck58]

>Mntman!!! I'm so glad a man of reason has joined this post. >Look out, the tree huggin huck and gator will keep you spell >bound with their total lack of education. They can't speak on >the subject so now they are talking about fishing...Duh!! >Seriously, Mntman you are dead on correct

He is as full of sh!t as you are! But I must watch what I say, he will apply for a nonresident tag with you and "WHEN" you two draw, I had better watch my back! LOL! I like how you put manhood and hunting together, that tells alot about your character, hunting has nothing to do with proving ones manhood. Even though I am sure your still searching. Be sure to use the red bag, since you have removed all doubt! By the way, how does that thing work? Wait, never mind, I don't want to know!

 

[kingfish]

LMAO!! Huck, when you decide to put your name in your profile like a man then what you say "might" matter but I doubt it. Guy's like you kow nothing about being a man... Another referance to your secret fetish?? It's pretty obvious how you ride..Straight up on the saddle horn. Call us some more names it's all you got anyway.

 

[Huck58]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-07 AT 11:31AM (MST)[p]

{quote}LMAO!! Huck, when you decide to put your name in your profile like a man then what you say "might" matter but I doubt it. Guy's like you kow nothing about being a man... Another referance to your secret fetish?? It's pretty obvious how you ride..Straight up on the saddle horn. Call us some more names it's all you got anyway. {quote}

Name calling? I won't stoop that low, in fact in your presence I would be affraid to stoop over at all! As for me not {"kowing"} (Mr.Spell Check) nothing about being a man, you wouldn't have a clue prepy boy! You liked the red bottle didn't you???? HMMMMMM? Come on tell us the story behind your fear!

 

[kingfish]

yawn!!!! bend not stoop!!! Keep quoting, it's a lot better then what you come up with...LMAO. Your boring.

 

[Huck58]

>yawn!!!! bend not stoop!!! Keep quoting,
>it's a lot better then
>what you come up with...LMAO.
>Your boring.



I might be boring, but I am not confused about my manhood, what it takes to be a man, or my sexuality!

And here is some more info about your beloved wolves! Which are worthless, and serve no purpose in this day and age.

The Wolf and the Spread of Disease by N. Nazarova
Translated from the Russian Hunting and Game Management
November, 1978, Pages 24, 25


Although there has been much attention directed towards the "predator--prey" biocenosis (i.e., intertwined existence), there isn't yet a unified view of the role of the predator: some researchers are trying to prove the existence of a balance in this biocenosis and ascribe to the predator the leading role in determining the number of prey; others propose that the number of predators is relatively small and that they don't cause tangible harm to the numbers of "useful" animals as opposed to the "harmful" ones.

Many propose that the wolf limits the numbers of hooved animals (Naumov, 1933; Semyonov-Tyanshanskij, 1948, 1969; Druri, Terletskij, 1962; Markidin, 1968; Komarov, Lavrov, 1969; Kheruvimov, 1969 and others).

The existence of diametrically opposed viewpoints speaks to the complexity of the problem and its incomplete research.

Turning to the question of the role of wolves and other predators (fox, polar fox, wolverine, etc.) in the spreading of infectious diseases it should be stressed that here, too, there is incomplete research. However, there are in the literature many reports of a percentage of observed wolves being the carriers of infectious diseases (brucella, deer-fly fever, listerosis, anthrax, and others), reports which provide a strong basis to think tha the predator plays an important role in their spread. It is most likely that this highly mobile predator ranging over dozens of miles is able to spread these diseases over significant distances.

Within the last few years wolfpacks have formed, which in order to survive, have been drawn to carrion, pits where the carcasses of the dead animals have not been properly buried despite the clear directives of veterinary medicine. In such situations these wolf carrion-eaters prove to be extremely serious spreaders of infectious diseases.

The wolf has been blamed for instances of the extremely severe diseases of both domesticated animals and man -- rabies. Lupine rabies after a latent period manifests itself in extreme agitation and aggression. Within a very short time such a dangerously sick wolf can widely spread out of his area of activity. For example, there is a recorded episode of just such a spread of rabies among farm animals and people in Belarus in 1957 when a rabid wolf within just a day and a half roamed over a hundred miles, bit 25 people (19 seriously), some 50 farm animals, and who knows how many forest creatures (Lin, 1962). Similar happenings are not rare. Moreover, while recognizing the undoubtedly serious role of the wolf in the spread of the rabies virus to man, one must be cognizant of the incomplete research in the wolf's role in limiting the numbers of other carriers of this disease, namely, the fox. The most recent examples of epizootic rabies (i.e. rapidly spreading) in Europe have occurred after the wolf was long gone, in the western regions of Europe and then spreading to the east.

Research has been done both in Russia and abroad to try to explain the role of the wolf in the spread of invasive or helminithic (I.E. caused by worms) diseases. In the Soviet Union alone the wolf can be infected with more than 50 types of parasites. Among these are several dangerous ones which can be transmitted to farm animals and to people. Significant damage can be done to wild hooved animals by larval parasites such as echinococcia, cysticercocci, and coenuri, all of which can attack man also. According to data from the Lenningrad Oblast' during a serious flare-up of cysticercosis not one observed female moose give birth to two calves, whereas in the Murmansk Oblast' where the outbreak was three times less severe all the moose females had two calves. The same type of situation was noted by Kheruvimov in 1969 in the Tambov Oblast'. There are also reports of the deaths of female moose and female deer caused by echinococcossi and cysticecocci. Wolves in the wild, seriously infected with the adult stage of cysticercosos by a tapeworm of the taenia family, are the sources of this parasitic invasion. It has been noted that where there aren't any wolves, the number of cysticerosis infected wild hooved animals is much less (Peterson, 1955). According to our data those wolves seriously infected with tapeworms (the source of larval parasites in feral hooved animals and in man) are found where their main food supply is hooved animals. In the Nenets Autonomous Region (Nazarov, Belaev, 1975) all observed wolves were seriously infected with tapeworms and four out of five had widespread echinoccocci. In the Belovezhsk Forest from 1957 to 1962 all eight wolves who underwent autopsies were found to be infected with tapeworm types of parasites harmful to both animals and people.

Together with the sufficiently negative influence of the wolf on its biocenosis by means of its spreading of infectious diseases to both animals and people, there are also not so rare data pointing out the elimination by the wolf-predator of sickly prey. In all likelihood, such sickly prey are the source of the diseases for healthy animals who get infected through the actions of the wolf. Most likely, both sides have a point in this matter. However, up to now neither side has evaluated the problem from an economic point of view. Moreover, in the report on the wolf (Dr. Mech) the culling-out role of the wolf was strongly emphasized, whereas its negative influence on nature as a spreader of disease was not discussed.

What's been said here leads us to the conclusion that deeper research on the wolf's epizootic role in the ecosystem is necessary, research which is free from pre-conceived notions (common in the past) and based on modern methodology.

 

[hotdiggity]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-07 AT 07:50PM (MST)[p]1978? That's some cutting edge research there. However, it is a good point to bring up the fact of disease transfers between wolves and other animals. It's a pretty interesting topic relating to pandemics. Alaska is actually one of the areas most susceptible to a flu pandemic from the migratory waterfowl.

Can we discuss wolves and wolf related topics instead of turning this post (and every other wolf post for that matter) into a pissing match? I can win that contest every time due to a constricted urethra.

 

[kingfish]

OMG, 1978 AND TRANSLATED FROM RUSSIAN??? That's down right imbarrasing!!!you have some serious sexuality issues but being from backwoods Wyoming you probably loved Deliverance!!! You sure got a purdy mouth!!! LOL!!!

 

[hotdiggity]

The movie was filmed in Georgia and it actually makes me home sick, being from Georgia myself. A couple of my kin were actually in that movie and we don't take kindly to strangers.

 

[REDDOG]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-07 AT 11:31PM (MST)[p]how's the moose doing in minnesota ?

 

[Huck58]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-07 AT 07:43AM (MST)[p]Good question reddog!

I find it interesting that keith finds my mouth purdy! Now I "kow" the truth! You have nothing to fear of your sexuality, h@ll most people accept it! Except me! But that's ok!


The research that I posted is still used by leading wildlife scientists around the world. Including your beloved USF&W! There is a current book written on the same subject. It dispells some of the myths of the wolf lovers. "Wolves in Russia"

Some comments:
"This amazing book presents for the first time,in detail, the facts on wolf problems."
Jim Rearden, Ph.D. former Head of the Wildlife Department at the University of Fairbanks, and author of "The Wolves of Alaska."

This book must be read by every serious wildlife biologist, resource decision maker and park manager, as well as the recreation-minded, for it clearly shows that co-existence between man and animal has limits that can never be forgotten."
James A. Swan, Ph.D., from Not-so-cuddly canines!

THese folks have about 10 times the ejukation as you keith!

 

[mntman]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-07
>AT 11:31?PM (MST)
>
>how's the moose doing in minnesota
>?

Not good at all :-( there are only 85 left last time I heard in the Northwest and the population is now dropping in the Northeast, still allowing hunting but they aren't sure what the reason is. If you draw a tag you are required to submit certain samples of the moose you harvested.
As far as it being due to the wolves no, they are finding them dead without being attacked from animals.
Due to that being their southern most edge of existence in the Midwest they think it might have some thing to do with the lack of cold weather allowing parasites to live on them year round causing sickness and weakening them? No one knows for sure yet though.
Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-07 AT 10:04AM (MST)[p]Must have struck a serious nerve, huh! "R" Atleast you can't spell it wrong. Mom and dad must have known something??? Oh yeah, that's "K"eith. Proper name....

 

[Huck58]

Struck a nerve? LMAO! Sorry, the only nerve your jibberish struck was my funny bone! Thanks for the entertainment!

And as for what possible cause to the demise of moose in Mn. The same dilema is occuring all over! If you read the book, which was written recently, and based on data, yes from 1978 and other years, maybe it is desease, transmitted by preditors, such as wolves! Did this ever occur to anyone? Yes it has, and many bioloists in the US are opening their eyes.

 

[mntman]

Huck58, I attended college to be a biologist the grand number of ZERO years, which is probably the same as 99.9% of the people on this website. I would have to take a wild guess though that the study you are reading about how wolves spread disease, is biased and the reason it was put out is due to that specific group of people not liking wolves. My reasoning for that statement is due to the fact that if wolves are the cause of spreading all these diseases. Why were there ever any deer, elk, moose etc before man ever got here? cause the wolves would have killed them off thousands of years ago?

I am no expert but any study can have facts and truths in it, just depends on how you write out and explain those truths or leave out other certain facts.
The best thing to do on any subject is to read ALL the study's on a subject, take out ALL the facts and combine them yourself to get the 100% truth (learn ;-)

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[idahoelkinstructor]

What we need to do is gather up all the idiot wolf lovers like kingfish and just beat the hell out of them. Better yet a firing line would do fine, after all you can't fix stupid. I have seen several trucks with bumper sticker in Salmon Idaho that reads...

F*** THE WOLVES AND KILL THE BASTARDS THAT BROUGHT THEM HERE.

King fish that applies to you. You and your Seattle butt loven buddies should not be allowed in the woods let alone have a say with what goes on there.

 

[Zigga]

>What we need to do is
>gather up all the idiot
>wolf lovers like kingfish and
>just beat the hell out
>of them. Better yet a
>firing line would do fine,
>after all you can't fix
>stupid. I have seen several
>trucks with bumper sticker in
>Salmon Idaho that reads...
>
>F*** THE WOLVES AND KILL THE
>BASTARDS THAT BROUGHT THEM HERE.
>
>
>King fish that applies to you.
>You and your Seattle butt
>loven buddies should not be
>allowed in the woods let
>alone have a say with
>what goes on there.



Now THAT is ignorance at its finest folks!!!

 

[mntman]

>What we need to do is
>gather up all the idiot
>wolf lovers like kingfish and
>just beat the hell out
>of them. Better yet a
>firing line would do fine,
>after all you can't fix
>stupid. I have seen several
>trucks with bumper sticker in
>Salmon Idaho that reads...
>
>F*** THE WOLVES AND KILL THE
>BASTARDS THAT BROUGHT THEM HERE.
>
>
>King fish that applies to you.
>You and your Seattle butt
>loven buddies should not be
>allowed in the woods let
>alone have a say with
>what goes on there.

I guess I am in the same boat as kingfish then uh? I don't take kindly to people who want to talk trash and can't back it up, My address 4964 Sodbuster Trl, colorado springs, co 80917. I'm home in the evenings.

Also with "instructor" in your name I would have guessed that you would be one that would learn something prior to shooting off your mouth about something you can't back up.

Oh and I grew up with those supposedly worthless animals, what state do you currently live in that supposedly has so many wolves running wild killing off every deer, elk moose and the unattend children? UT, NM, NV, AZ, MT, ID, WY???? all the wolves combined in those states don't come any where near what they have in Minnesota.

Oh yeah almost forgot, the one person who broght the wolves to your back yard or anywhere else is a rather big person, you sure you want to tangle with God?

I do agree with you guys who don't like wolves in that there should be a season on them trapping and/or hunting. They should be managed the same as any other big game species. Also prior to being "reintroduced" (officially recognized) there should be a approved plan in place to keep the number/density at the predertermined # in the designated areas.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[Gator]

I hear you there,Hope we don't have to many wolfs in South Dakota now and then we get one but most of us know what to do with them, We don't keep them around to play fetch the cows,
Now those killer pheasants, you need to keep your wits about you or they will get you.
I just love those disable my profile guys.

Kingfish: well his mouth just runs like a open sewer babbling and flowing, it got a great sound but it still smells funny and stinks.

Hook line and sinker,

 

[Huck58]

quote;Oh yeah almost forgot, the one person who broght the wolves to your back yard or anywhere else is a rather big person, you sure you want to tangle with God? quote;

Now God is on your side? Sorry, I think he is on our side!

Common sense does come into play. And common sense tells me that if leading scientists such as the ones in the book have an opinion then I am also entitled to believe their opinion. The same as you MNTman and the other prowolf people are intitled to believe your biased information. I have followed the entire wolf escapade from day one, read ever article I could find, and even a few books. I have also attended many of the informational meetings held by the WyG&F and USF&W. I even met Mike Jemenez. Woopti f*ckin do! He has his own biased opinion, the same as Doug Smith. Game wardens from the WYG&F have opinins also, every single one I have asked or talked to, wolf reintroduction not good, no benefit. WyG&F biologists, visited with three over the years, all, have pretty much said the same thing, "time will tell" "the jury is still out. But one thing they all agreed on, in some areas, the wolf has had a significant negative effect on elk populations. Not the whole state and the wolf is not going to 100% wipe out the elk, BUT THE WOLF HAS REDUCED NUMBERS IN SOME AREAS!

So I form my opinion from that information, not a disney movie! I stand by my belief, that no "GOOD" to mankind has or ever will come from wolves being dumped in Wyoming. And God had nothing to do with it, Bill Clinton, liberals in general, anti-hunnters, and Bruce Babbitt had the most to do with the reintroduction. And I personally do not want any association with a group of people who want to turn back time. And take more from mankind in the way of outdoor recreation or outdoor opportunities.
Again, NO GOOD HAS OR WILL COME FROM CANADIAN GREY WOLVES! They are here to stay, I can live with that, them being here does no bother me near what it bothers zigga,keith, and you if they were not here! With a little luck the libbies and tree huggers will ok the management plans of all the states involved, avoid costly lawsuits, and not force Wyoming to continue with the states lawsuits against the feds, and killing can begin and the wolf numbers will some what be brought in check! THe plan in Wyoming looks do-able, but the fat lady hasn't sang yet! Worst case, it will cost the state more money to fight than to manage,and take another year to open season, our Govenor is behind the hunter and G&F 100% on the issue of management.


Rant and rave all you want on behalf of a worthless preditor and I will rant and rave all I want against a worthless preditor!

 

[Huck58]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-08 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]quote:I guess I am in the same boat as kingfish then uh? I don't take kindly to people who want to talk trash and can't back it up, My address 4964 Sodbuster Trl, colorado springs, co 80917. I'm home in the evenings. quote:

You and keith are really into yourselves! He wants to come to Wyoming to kick every anti-wolf persons a$$! But he has to draw a tag first!



Funny thing, neither of you live in a state impacted by the wolves, and yet you want to dictate and defend liberal policy! I honestly wish the feds would trap 50 or so, take them to Rocky Beemer Mountain National Park, and let them go, so you could drive your suv over to watch them, and you could stay the he!! out of Wyoming!

 

[Wyosheds]

There was an approved plan in place when the wolves were reintroduced. That is a big reason for the hard fealings that alot of people have now days.

The original USFWS reintroduction plan to delist the wolves and allow states the ability to manage was to have 30 breeding pairs and 300 wolves with uniform distribution between Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.

This was reached many years ago and they were not delisted. As of December 2006 Wyoming alone had 37 confirmed packs, 14 of these packs including 10 breeding pairs were established within Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. The remaining 23 packs including 15 breeding pairs were outside of the national parks. This gives the Greater Yellostone are a confirmed total by the USFWS of around 400 wolves with over half residing outside of National park Boundaries with a vast majority living within Wyoming borders.. It is also documented that wolves in Wyoming are increasing in population by and average of 22% since 1998. Wyoming has committed to maintain 15 breeding pairs with 7 of those being outside of the national parks.

I have nothing against the wolves and was originally in support of the reintroduction, but my biggest isssue now isn't the wolves it is the people that will not allow delisting so these animals can be managed at a level that is satisfactory in todays world. As it stands right now the western US has a cancer that is spreading like wildfire and unfortunately we have a cure but we are not allowed to administor the medicine. Hopefully this will change in the next few weeks but I am sure the delisting will be suspended for several more years.

 

[Huck58]

Wyosheds, your sentiments are pretty much ecoed again and again, across Wyoming. And my opinion, I really don't give a $hit what other people from other states think! We have to live with them 24-7. Hunting license fees will have to pay for management and state taxes. When kolorado gets wolves then it is their business and none of my concern as the same for orygone! I hope there is a season soon, and I think there will be. One of the ranches we lion hunt on, had wolves, about 14, two weeks ago we stopped by to wish the rancher Merry Christmas, no not happy holidays, since we were looking for a place to run the dogs, we asked about where the wolves were. He told us flat out, they are gone. We had seen them during elk season the last several seasons and always see tracks. I was curious about what happened and why. The rancher said the government trapper came and the wolves are gone. He had no other explination. They have had only one cow (bovine) killed by wolves in 10 years. So I think something is up!

 

[mntman]

Huck58,
First off, I am from a state with wolves, I am from Minnesota and actually my residency is still there (currently active duty) I left there 8 years ago and return every year to the parents property to deer hunt. SO YES I deal with wolves and have a interest in getting a MANAGEMENT plan in place.
Yes I feel there are too many wolves in Minnesota, should there be an unlimited season on them? No, they deserve to live there as much as any deer.
Now should wolves be allowed where there are severly limited area's where people don't live? No, there should be very minimal if any wolves there. I think they belong in vast areas of wilderness with minimal possible human (pets/livestock) contact. They should be trapped/hunted to keep them in the target range.
I believe that there are regions with a severe over population of wolves and the different gov't agencies should get off their @$$ and resolve the issue and forget about the the tree huggers (or the way you want to refer to them as butt buddies) and start the management plan that was originally agreed upon.

There is no way you can argue with the idea that if there was a predetermined number of wolves to keep them established but low enough to not cause a severe impact to the HEALTHY populations of their prey in any given area that they shouldn't be there. If the plan was enforced!

Oh yeah, I'm not looking to kick someones @$$, you were the one who put out the offer and I just volunteered my @$$ for you to attempt it with

Also, I don't believe the pro-wolf studys either, they are usually from anti's BUT they do have some facts that I use to make my own decisions. As I stated earlier, you can make any study sound as good or bad as you want it to. Just depends on how you conduct the study, the facts you print/don't print. I take info from ALL studies and form my OWN opinion.

I think I answered everything?

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[idahoelkinstructor]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-08 AT 07:50PM (MST)[p]>>What we need to do is
>>gather up all the idiot
>>wolf lovers like kingfish and
>>just beat the hell out
>>of them. Better yet a
>>firing line would do fine,
>>after all you can't fix
>>stupid. I have seen several
>>trucks with bumper sticker in
>>Salmon Idaho that reads...
>>
>>F*** THE WOLVES AND KILL THE
>>BASTARDS THAT BROUGHT THEM HERE.
>>
>>
>>King fish that applies to you.
>>You and your Seattle butt
>>loven buddies should not be
>>allowed in the woods let
>>alone have a say with
>>what goes on there.
>
>I guess I am in the
>same boat as kingfish then
>uh? I don't take kindly
>to people who want to
>talk trash and can't back
>it up, My address 4964
>Sodbuster Trl, colorado springs, co
>80917. I'm home in the
>evenings.
>
>Also with "instructor" in your name
>I would have guessed that
>you would be one that
>would learn something prior to
>shooting off your mouth about
>something you can't back up.
>
>
>Oh and I grew up with
>those supposedly worthless animals, what
>state do you currently live
>in that supposedly has so
>many wolves running wild killing
>off every deer, elk moose
>and the unattend children? UT,
>NM, NV, AZ, MT, ID,
>WY???? all the wolves combined
>in those states don't come
>any where near what they
>have in Minnesota.
>
>Oh yeah almost forgot, the one
>person who broght the wolves
>to your back yard or
>anywhere else is a rather
>big person, you sure you
>want to tangle with God?
>
>
>I do agree with you guys
>who don't like wolves in
>that there should be a
>season on them trapping and/or
>hunting. They should be managed
>the same as any other
>big game species. Also prior
>to being "reintroduced" (officially recognized)
>there should be a approved
>plan in place to keep
>the number/density at the predertermined
># in the designated areas.
>
>
>Mntman
>
>"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>

Well Mr.4964 Sodbuster, I live in Hawaii, or maybe even on the moon! Of course if we met face to face you would say I was the Devil and I lived in hell. I am actually a very nice guy until I am around wolf loving idiots who try to tell us Idahoans and other western locals what we should do and how we should live. Then when that happens I become the biggest meanest son of a ##### you ever met. I promise you wouldn't like me and I sure the hell don't like people like you. What I don't get is how your logic is twisted in your mind. On one hand you think its evil to kill the wolves no matter the reason. And then on the other you agree they need to be controled. Dude make up you mind and decide who's side your on. In other words shiit or get off the pot and support us wolf hatters or go join peta with zigga and kingfish.

 

[mntman]

>Well Mr.4964 Sodbuster, I live in
>Hawaii, or maybe even on
>the moon! Of course if
>we met face to face
>you would say I was
>the Devil and I lived
>in hell. I am actually
>a very nice guy until
>I am around wolf loving
>idiots who try to tell
>us Idahoans and other western
>locals what we should do
>and how we should live.
>Then when that happens I
>become the biggest meanest son
>of a ##### you ever
>met. I promise you wouldn't
>like me and I sure
>the hell don't like people
>like you. What I don't
>get is how your logic
>is twisted in your mind.
>On one hand you think
>its evil to kill the
>wolves no matter the reason.
>And then on the other
>you agree they need to
>be controled. Dude make up
>you mind and decide who's
>side your on. In other
>words shiit or get off
>the pot and support us
>wolf hatters or go join
>peta with zigga and kingfish.
>

Dude that's funny and what else is funny is that you are trying to scare me over the internet on how much of a bad ass that you are, all it shows me is that you are a good typer.
I don't know where I ever wrote that "it's evil to kill them no matter the reason". So I am rather sure you are making up quotes from me which shows what type of person you are(if I did then I appoligize and will proof read from now on).
Yes I believe they should be controlled/MANAGED. They have their place in the wild and need to be managed to keep them in a balance with all the other species and people.
I would love to get a tag for one in MN. probably would never get one unless I started trapping but cant do it unless you try.

Have you seen zigga's or kingfish's membership card to PETA? I haven't either, never met them and don't know much if anything about them. If you haven't then why don't you meet them and get to know them before you make your assumptions?

I assume you hunt elk, if that is the case then, per your statement of ##### or get off the pot (make a decision if I'm a wolf lover/hater) you believe then that elk should be hunted to extinction, because you believe that a person can't be in the middle on a decision to manage a paticular species? Is this true, if not please explain how it's different?

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[Huck58]

Quote:First off, I am from a state with wolves, I am from Minnesota and actually my residency is still there (currently active duty) I left there 8 years ago and return every year to the parents property to deer hunt. SO YES I deal with wolves and have a interest in getting a MANAGEMENT plan in place.
Quote:


Thats fine, that is your business, Wyoming is mine, so stay out of ours! They do no good, they do not serve human kind, God did not put them here in Wyoming, liberals did, no benefit has or ever will come of them being placed here. You want wolves in Mn and kolorado, that's fine! I don't want them here, I have no use for them here, I can find as more that feel as I do, than you can that feel as you do. They are here to stay, if I could choose to wipe them out or to keep them, I would choose wipe them out, by any means. But that is a dream in a real world, not a disney movie. They need controlled, and they might be very soon, two recovery areas, one advocates preditor status the other trophy game. They will go fast in the preditor area. In the trophy area, it will be up and down, but there will at least be some control. BUT! BUT! That big word! But the seasons have to be opened., Still hurdles. And for the USF&W to approve removing all of the wolves in two large drainages of the Absorkas, methinks some thing is up. Hopefully a season, and the sooner the better.

I have never once advocated any a$$ kicking, keith and yourself are the ones who are pumped up on themselves! I have two sons in active duty, one in falujah, and one just returning this month, and I pray to God, they don't return home pumped up on themselves and pound their chests like you do! I think I brought them up better than that.

 

[mntman]

>Quote:First off, I am from a
>state with wolves, I am
>from Minnesota and actually my
>residency is still there (currently
>active duty) I left there
>8 years ago and return
>every year to the parents
>property to deer hunt. SO
>YES I deal with wolves
>and have a interest in
>getting a MANAGEMENT plan in
>place.
>Quote:
>
>
>Thats fine, that is your business,
>Wyoming is mine, so stay
>out of ours! They
>do no good, they do
>not serve human kind, God
>did not put them here
>in Wyoming, liberals did, no
>benefit has or ever will
>come of them being placed
>here. You want wolves
>in Mn and kolorado, that's
>fine! I don't want them
>here, I have no use
>for them here, I can
>find as more that
>feel as I do, than
>you can that feel as
>you do. They are
>here to stay, if I
>could choose to wipe them
>out or to keep them,
>I would choose wipe them
>out, by any means.
>But that is a dream
>in a real world, not
>a disney movie. They
>need controlled, and they might
>be very soon, two recovery
>areas, one advocates preditor status
>the other trophy game.
>They will go fast in
>the preditor area. In the
>trophy area, it will be
>up and down, but there
>will at least be some
>control. BUT! BUT!
> That big word!
>But the seasons have to
>be opened., Still hurdles.
>And for the USF&W to
>approve removing all of the
>wolves in two large drainages
>of the Absorkas, methinks some
>thing is up. Hopefully a
>season, and the sooner the
>better.
>
>I have never once advocated any
>a$$ kicking, keith and yourself
>are the ones who are
>pumped up on themselves! I
>have two sons in active
>duty, one in falujah, and
>one just returning this month,
>and I pray to God,
>they don't return home pumped
>up on themselves and pound
>their chests like you do!
>I think I brought them
>up better than that.

I do have to appoligize about you advocating an @$$ kicking, I got you mixed up with idelkinstructor, that is my fault.

Let me ask you this one question then about your statement.
If the plan that was originally agreed upon was currently enforced with the wolves being hunted/trapped to keep them in the target range in the designated areas. Would you even have a thought about them right now or have such maddening feelings toward them? I would have to guess no.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[studpile]

This reminds me of a post a fair piece back about Wild Horses.....went bad quickly....anyway....
It get's me to thinking about the stories of the pioneers coming out west, and how their wagons trains were circled by the wolves, ultimately killing and eating whatever vulnerable meal they could get, including people.
It would appear, after 150 years or so, we are about to come full circle. Oh yeah...Biocenosis...I just wanted to say that.
Kill 'em, we still got plenty of coyotes, you'll never wipe them out.

 

[Huck58]

Nothing maddening, and the answer with the exception of maddeing would be yes!. Read my posts, I have no use for them, never will! Common sense, to many millions, to many donated funds and man hours, to many years of hard work, to get big game numbers where they are. And to see a killing eating machine introduced for no ryhme or reason, except to appease a liberal anti-hunting crowd, and actually rammed down the throats of Wy. Id. and Mt. residents, just goes against my craw~~ ! Big government at its finest~! We have lions, we have bears, we have coyotes, we have hunters, we don't and didn't need wolves!

 

[Huck58]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-08 AT 08:49PM (MST)[p] I can disagree the same as you and keith and zigga can agree. It is my choice, you and no one will change my opinion of wolves. I like grizzlys, I like black bear, I like Cougars, I like coyotes, I HATE WOLVES!

Now I will admit, if they had been allowed to come back naturally, on their own, with out unlce sam bending us over,and shoving it in, (keith likes that part) I probably would have accepted it quite easily! And there were already a few wolves in Wyoming, but reintroduction was some tree hugging anti-hunters, wet dream. You should go to the park some time, and listen to these people talk to the kids and the out of staters about wolves. It is sickening. Honest, I have heard it a dozen times. If you are truly a hunter, and believe in what hunting has actually done for all wildlife, those people will make you sick!

 

[mntman]

>Nothing maddening, and the answer with
>the exception of maddeing would
>be yes!. Read my posts,
>I have no use for
>them, never will! Common sense,
>to many millions, to many
>donated funds and man hours,
>to many years of hard
>work, to get big game
>numbers where they are. And
>to see a killing eating
>machine introduced for no ryhme
>or reason, except to appease
>a liberal anti-hunting crowd, and
>actually rammed down the throats
>of Wy. Id. and Mt.
>residents, just goes against my
>craw~~ ! Big government
>at its finest~! We
>have lions, we have bears,
>we have coyotes, we have
>hunters, we don't and didn't
>need wolves!

Well I can see your point, that doesn't mean I agree with it nor does your opinion make it common sense. I do think that all the states are getting a bad deal with wolves on how they were supposed to get to manage them but have been slapped in the face with it by the courts.


I do believe they have their place in the wild where it can be supported, they provided a valuable part in the past eco-system before man got involved and can do it to an extent again. We don't have the privlage of deciding which species can live and which ones can't, all we can do is manage them.


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[mntman]

You have no idea on how pi$$ d I get when it comes to anti's, I hate everyone of them and the thought of them get my blood boiling. I know what they say and can't believe what they say to convice the fence sitters to the anti side. That doesn't mean that I can't like to see the wolves come back.
I know how you feel on them getting rammed down your throats but think on why ID, WY, MT and all the other states get the wolves reintroduced. They have LARGE wilderness areas that can support a wolf population.

As far as years of building up the deer/elk herds, yeah its BS that the wolf population gets to run up well above the objective numbers in areas and have a negative impact on the herds but if they were at the objective level their impact on the healthy animals would be very minimal.


Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[Zigga]

I've basically stayed out of this post and you guys still had the decency to think of me. I feel warm all over. You'd think that with Alaska, Canada, Minnesota and Wisconsin (among other areas) having wolves and huntable animal populations that Montana, Wyoming and Idaho could have some too. Nobody likes unmanaged predators or any other unmanaged animals but who said this would all work out overnight anyway? If you aren't working toward wolf management then what exactly are you doing?



Thanks for reminding me to renew my PETA membership.

 

[idahoelkinstructor]

>>Well Mr.4964 Sodbuster, I live in
>>Hawaii, or maybe even on
>>the moon! Of course if
>>we met face to face
>>you would say I was
>>the Devil and I lived
>>in hell. I am actually
>>a very nice guy until
>>I am around wolf loving
>>idiots who try to tell
>>us Idahoans and other western
>>locals what we should do
>>and how we should live.
>>Then when that happens I
>>become the biggest meanest son
>>of a ##### you ever
>>met. I promise you wouldn't
>>like me and I sure
>>the hell don't like people
>>like you. What I don't
>>get is how your logic
>>is twisted in your mind.
>>On one hand you think
>>its evil to kill the
>>wolves no matter the reason.
>>And then on the other
>>you agree they need to
>>be controled. Dude make up
>>you mind and decide who's
>>side your on. In other
>>words shiit or get off
>>the pot and support us
>>wolf hatters or go join
>>peta with zigga and kingfish.
>>
>
>Dude that's funny and what
>else is funny is that
>you are trying to scare
>me over the internet on
>how much of a bad
>ass that you are, all
>it shows me is that
>you are a good typer.
>
> I don't know where I
>ever wrote that "it's evil
>to kill them no matter
>the reason". So I am
>rather sure you are making
>up quotes from me which
>shows what type of person
>you are(if I did then
>I appoligize and will proof
>read from now on).
>Yes I believe they should be
>controlled/MANAGED. They have their place
>in the wild and need
>to be managed to keep
>them in a balance with
>all the other species and
>people.
> I would love to get
>a tag for one in
>MN. probably would never get
>one unless I started trapping
>but cant do it unless
>you try.
>
>Have you seen zigga's or kingfish's
>membership card to PETA? I
>haven't either, never met them
>and don't know much if
>anything about them. If you
>haven't then why don't you
>meet them and get to
>know them before you make
>your assumptions?
>
>I assume you hunt elk, if
>that is the case then,
>per your statement of #####
>or get off the pot
>(make a decision if I'm
>a wolf lover/hater) you believe
>then that elk should be
>hunted to extinction, because you
>believe that a person can't
>be in the middle on
>a decision to manage a
>paticular species? Is this true,
>if not please explain how
>it's different?
>
>Mntman
>
>"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>

What part of me being a big mean SOB scares you? Not trying to scare, just stating who I am and the fact you will not like me and I sure the hell don't like you. Making up quotes? No just taking a guess based off your posts. The fact that you want to stick up for zigga and kingfish makes me believe you think more inline with the wolf lovers than us wolf haters.

Elk hunted to extinction? Heck no, Wolves on the the othe hand yes as far as I care outside any nation parks. That is the only place they should be allowed to be IMO, if they wonder out we should be allowed to shoot them at will, just like the coyotes. To me its so black and white you are either for the wolves or against them. None of the fence sitting crap. The anti's do not give a inch in allowing wolves to be delisted, they admit they plan to tie it up in court for as long as it takes. Also do you really trust our federal goverment to do the right thing, in the best interest of the american sportsman do you? If you do you are dreaming or with the anti's. Our goveremnt officals and Judges will do whatever makes them the most money, be it legal or not. In the case of wolves we sportsmans are outnumbered in both personel (number of votes) and money. In court money talks as well as who lies the best. So we are told to be patient, and soon we well be allowed to control them. I would love to see the odds in Vegas on that happening. In the meanwhile our elk herds are getting eaten to extinction. I bet you believe that only the unheathly elk get taking down? What a load of BS, wolves will kill any and all elk healthy or not. In Idaho we have 10 times the number of wolves that we need, so I will do my part and will shoot each and every wolf that I can when I can, in other words SSS. I would also bet you would turn me in for breaking the law in a second, though I will help save some elk. So in my mind that makes you not much better than the tree hugger, anti's hunter, and wolf lover. Like I said you either with us or agains us. Thats what I believe and I don't give a rats ass who I make mad, piss off or otherwise.

 

[mntman]

>What part of me being a
>big mean SOB scares you?
>Not trying to scare, just
>stating who I am and
>the fact you will not
>like me and I sure
>the hell don't like you.
>Making up quotes? No just
>taking a guess based off
>your posts. The fact that
>you want to stick up
>for zigga and kingfish makes
>me believe you think more
>inline with the wolf lovers
>than us wolf haters.
>
>Elk hunted to extinction? Heck no,
>Wolves on the the othe
>hand yes as far as
>I care outside any nation
>parks. That is the only
>place they should be allowed
>to be IMO, if they
>wonder out we should be
>allowed to shoot them at
>will, just like the coyotes.
>To me its so black
>and white you are either
>for the wolves or against
>them. None of the fence
>sitting crap. The anti's do
>not give a inch in
>allowing wolves to be delisted,
>they admit they plan to
>tie it up in court
>for as long as it
>takes. Also do you really
>trust our federal goverment to
>do the right thing, in
>the best interest of the
>american sportsman do you? If
>you do you are dreaming
>or with the anti's. Our
>goveremnt officals and Judges will
>do whatever makes them the
>most money, be it legal
>or not. In the case
>of wolves we sportsmans are
>outnumbered in both personel (number
>of votes) and money. In
>court money talks as well
>as who lies the best.
>So we are told to
>be patient, and soon we
>well be allowed to control
>them. I would love to
>see the odds in Vegas
>on that happening. In the
>meanwhile our elk herds are
>getting eaten to extinction. I
>bet you believe that only
>the unheathly elk get taking
>down? What a load of
>BS, wolves will kill any
>and all elk healthy or
>not. In Idaho we have
>10 times the number of
>wolves that we need, so
>I will do my part
>and will shoot each and
>every wolf that I can
>when I can, in other
>words SSS. I would also
>bet you would turn me
>in for breaking the law
>in a second, though I
>will help save some elk.
>So in my mind that
>makes you not much better
>than the tree hugger, anti's
>hunter, and wolf lover. Like
>I said you either with
>us or agains us. Thats
>what I believe and I
>don't give a rats ass
>who I make mad, piss
>off or otherwise.

That's the funny part, you sure talk like you are trying to scare me(good luck). Go back and read all your previous posts then and tell me you aren't trying to scare someone.

Where has Zigga & kingfish ever said they are wolf-lovers to the point of being anti's and members of PETA or me for that matter?
You assume too much.

If you read my posts, I do think it's b.s. that the states don't have the right to regulate the numbers of wolves and it's crap on how they get screwed in court all the time over b.s. excueses.
I believe the wolves have a right to be in the lower 48 as much as any other species. should the numbers be so high they are on the edge of high human density area's no, should they be in PARKS and WILDERNESS area's? Yes.

As far as only unhealthy elk getting eaten? that is a many part question. I will try my best, please don't take out one sentence and make it my total belief.
1. Do they take healthy elk? Yes.
a. When wolf number's are high, their pack numbers are high, greater than 10 even up to 20-30 in a pack. That means the majority of the pack is experienced hunting adults which equals greater success. How? when one set of wolves gets tired of chasing another set keeps going and they continue this until their prey is tired and they can take it down.
2. Do they prefer to take injured, old, sick, wounded prey? Yes
b. If the oppurtunity is there they will take them first but with such high numbers of wolves those animals get eaten right off the bat so all that remains is the healthy ones.
3. If the number of wolves is managed to where they are supposed to be their pack sizes would be smaller. It would generally be
3-9 in a pack. The number of adults would be tremoundously less and a larger part of the pack would be young inexperienced pups. So their success would be less, due to not being able to run their prey to unlimited distances. Also with a balanced number of wolves for the area/prey they would be primarily taking the old, sick, injured etc... there would be no need to take healthy animals.
3.a. They will always take healthy animals that is how elk get stronger, faster, smarter etc... but it would be back down to a minimal amount that you or anyone else would never notice and wouldn't be a factor in you getting your precious elk tag every year.
3.b. One question you may have is why will the packs be smaller?
They would be smaller due to with lower densities the wolves would constantly be spreading out to start their own packs (wanting to be top dog). Another part is the fact that hunting/trapping would have a major impact on preventing them from building large packs. Due to when the alpha male &/or female is killed the pack falls apart, no leadership they all kinda go their own way. Yes some stay together but most leave and try to start their own pack. So most of the time a pack would consist of an inexperienced pair and their pups and maybe a couple other adults.
They would then be severly limited on the size and healthiness of their prey.

Sorry it's so long.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[Huck58]

QUOTE:I've basically stayed out of this post and you guys still had the decency to think of me. I feel warm all over. :Quote:


I try to do my part to keep you warm and fuzzys feeling warm and fuzzy about your misguided liberal ideologies and issues!

Why don't keith pipe in? We can make 100 replys and I never even started the thread!