Worth the Risk?

[bullskin]

The border is a mess. The only ones who say otherwise are left-wing progressives who prefer open borders. And so there was an agreement formed in the Senate to resolve many of these problems. It was widely lauded by moderates on both sides of the aisle (and despised by the far-left and far-right) until Trump decided that any improvement would only hurt his chances in the election since Biden's incompetence would appear somewhat diminished. Is this a sound strategy for America, or does it serve only Trump? Does peeling away funding for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan alter the calculus?

 

[Gunnihunter]

The border is a mess. The only ones who say otherwise are left-wing progressives who prefer open borders. And so there was an agreement formed in the Senate to resolve many of these problems. It was widely lauded by moderates on both sides of the aisle (and despised by the far-left and far-right) until Trump decided that any improvement would only hurt his chances in the election since Biden's incompetence would appear somewhat diminished. Is this a sound strategy for America, or does it serve only Trump? Does peeling away funding for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan alter the calculus?

How does codifying 5000 illegals a day resolve anything. McConnell needs to go.

 

[bullskin]

The proposal does nothing to weaken border security. Just as it is theoretically possible to restrict illegals to zero per day right now, it remains possible to similarly restrict access in the future, provided our politicians have the guts to do so. There is nothing in the language that requires us to accept 5000 illegals. What does change is the response once that 5000 mark is achieved. At that point, all entry points are closed--even for those who have been waiting patiently in line for an application. So sad, too bad. Furthermore, it would provide for more fence, more guards and more housing. These will reduce the number of illegal crossings and reduce the sort of crowding that results in catch-and-release into the U.S. Perhaps most importantly, it raises the bar for asylum. Fewer illegals will receive permission to stay and more will be sent home. Those caught trying to enter illegally twice will be denied even the opportunity to apply for a visa thereafter.

As a matter of policy, what is the downside for Americans? It is beginning to look like the only one it hurts is Trump, and the benefits he claims will accrue to Republicans by refusing this legislation will evaporate once normal Americans learn of the details--which they will.

 

[elkassassin]

What A F'N PISS POOR Way To Get Votes!

Mighty Costly As Well!

I Seen A Pop-Up Where Obama & Biden Is Wanting Donations!

WAFJ!

Hurry Everybody!

Send Your Money In So They Can F'N Blow It!

 

[HntHrdr]

60 billion Ukraine, 14 Billion Israel, 10 billion Gaza. 20 Billion for our border… a quarter of what we are sending out side the country and for what?! Lots of political posturing on both sides for decades. Zero solutions. Build a wall form a line, wait in the country you are from, we have laws enforce them. Look out for citizens of this country… I’m an idiot took me all of 3 min to type this up… but sure everyone one can continue to yell

 

[bullskin]

Solutions escape us because both parties would prefer to have issues to divide voters than actually fix any problems. With regard to the border, this is one of those rare moments where neutral parties agree that we would all be better off if we put politics aside.

As for Israel, they seem to have plenty of munitions--they do not need any help in their war. As for Ukraine and Taiwan, I believe it is cheaper to contain Russia and China now than it will be once they have acquired new territories and greater agricultural and industrial capacity.

 

[HntHrdr]

Agreed on some points… then again I was a company grade officer, not a general or a great strategist, I learned a little about war… but prolonging a conflict is something I am never in favor of. More dead Ukrainians and Russian conscripts is doing little for our safety. Russia is not going to invade Europe as for the U.S. and China; we are so in bed with them there is almost no way warfare could breakout between us without completely tanking the worlds economy… I agree not cool with them throwing their weight around regionally, but hypocritically we do the same in our area of influence. We may do it a little more overtly or at least attempt, but all powers like to flex their muscles or lest we forget about all the military bases around the world.

 

[grizzly]

There was indisputably more border security in that bill than ever happened under the Trump Administration... including the years that Repubs had the House and Senate.

Trump needs to keep people scared and angry to get their votes and claim that Biden didn't stop illegal immigration... so therefore, Trump blew up the deal that would hamper illegal immigration.

The bill was even widely and officially endorsed by the Border Patrol, who is famously pro-closed borders.

Stopping this bill was bad for the Country, but what Trump wanted to do so he could hopefully regain the White House and stay out of prison.

 

[grizzly]

the benefits he claims will accrue to Republicans by refusing this legislation will evaporate once normal Americans learn of the details--which they will.

But Trump supporters won't ever learn the details because they only watch people that lie to them. Heck, 70% actually think the election was stolen.

Even Trump doesn't think that. If he did, he'd be making those arguments in court (including SCOTUS this week, in the Colorado case). He only says that lie in the sound bites to his supporters and on social media.

He's not using the affirmative defense that January 6th wasn't an insurrection because the election was stolen and therefore he was the rightful President.
If the election was really stolen, then January 6th wouldn't have been an insurrection. Instead, he's claiming that since the Senate didn't convict him, a Court can't keep him off the ballot; and that POTUS isn't an "officer" if the United States and therefore the 14th Amendment doesn't apply to him.

The truth is in the Court filings, not the applause lines at his rallies.

PS. I predict he wins the Colorado case, but loses the immunity case.

 

[NMFROM81]

It was widely lauded by moderates on both sides of the aisle (and despised by the far-left and far-right) until Trump decided that any improvement would only hurt his chances in the election since Biden's incompetence would appear somewhat diminished. Is this a sound strategy for America, or does it serve only Trump?

Exactly!

Trump cares about nothing other than himself.

Didn’t he just recently say he hoped the economy would crash before the election?……so he can use that as a talking point for votes? Yeah, great choice there.

 

[NMFROM81]

But Trump supporters won't ever learn the details because they only watch people that lie to them. Heck, 70% actually think the election was stolen.

Even Trump doesn't think that. If he did, he'd be making those arguments in court (including SCOTUS this week, in the Colorado case). He only says that lie in the sound bites to his supporters and on social media.

He's not using the affirmative defense that January 6th wasn't an insurrection because the election was stolen and therefore he was the rightful President.
If the election was really stolen, then January 6th wouldn't have been an insurrection. Instead, he's claiming that since the Senate didn't convict him, a Court can't keep him off the ballot; and that POTUS isn't an "officer" if the United States and therefore the 14th Amendment doesn't apply to him.

The truth is in the Court filings, not the applause lines at his rallies.

PS. I predict he wins the Colorado case, but loses the immunity case.

True, BUT congress did impeach him with a simple majority and the Senate then failed to convict with a 2/3 majority. However, the majority of the senate did think he was guilty of “incitement of insurrection”, as did congress.

Kinda telling how both chambers felt about it when it was fresh in their minds.

That immunity claim is looking pretty stupid now, as it did when it was made…. But good enough to delay.

 

[bullskin]

Trump cares about nothing other than himself.

Didn’t he just recently say he hoped the economy would crash before the election?……so he can use that as a talking point for votes? Yeah, great choice there.

My favorite Trump quote to date is the one where he asked people to get out in the blizzard to vote--and that if they died as a result, it would be worth it! What an arsehole.

Trump supporters won't ever learn the details because they only watch people that lie to them. Heck, 70% actually think the election was stolen.

Even Trump doesn't think that. If he did, he'd be making those arguments in court (including SCOTUS this week, in the Colorado case). He only says that lie in the sound bites to his supporters and on social media.

That is an obvious point that never occurred to me. If a "stolen election" was a defensible position, then he would use that as his defense before the court. He still repeats that claim, but apparently not in the presence of anyone who will fact check it.

Damn, Sam. Nail the lid on that coffin!

 

[notdonhunting]

You guys are blaming the quoted "border security bill" being shot down because of Trump.
First off it was not border security, you could have called it "immigrating reform", or you could have called "Ukraine war relief" but to call this bill "border security" no.
The supposed "border security" was dead before Trump made it a issue Speaker Johnson stated "the border security bill will never see light of day on the house as long as the other items are tied to it" a week before Trump spoke about this bill.
Most of the Senators that was against this bill had stated multiple times through the last month they was not going to vote for it, they stated "too much junk tied to it"
If this was such a great bipartisan border security bill then why did every Republican Senator that supported it have to plug their nose to vote for it but the Democrat Senators was celebrating the passing of the bill.
Why did the Democrats of the Senate all get a working copy of the bill weeks before the Republican Senators got the final draft and then told you need to accept this bill.
Even Senator McConnell made sure everyone new it was Senator Lankford that had drawing up this bill with Senator Schumer.
This bill was 100% about Ukraine Aid and we all know that means more money going to the pockets of politicians and politicians family and friends

 

[Flyjunky12]

You guys are blaming the quoted "border security bill" being shot down because of Trump.
First off it was not border security, you could have called it "immigrating reform", or you could have called "Ukraine war relief" but to call this bill "border security" no.
The supposed "border security" was dead before Trump made it a issue Speaker Johnson stated "the border security bill will never see light of day on the house as long as the other items are tied to it" a week before Trump spoke about this bill.
Most of the Senators that was against this bill had stated multiple times through the last month they was not going to vote for it, they stated "too much junk tied to it"
If this was such a great bipartisan border security bill then why did every Republican Senator that supported it have to plug their nose to vote for it but the Democrat Senators was celebrating the passing of the bill.
Why did the Democrats of the Senate all get a working copy of the bill weeks before the Republican Senators got the final draft and then told you need to accept this bill.
Even Senator McConnell made sure everyone new it was Senator Lankford that had drawing up this bill with Senator Schumer.
This bill was 100% about Ukraine Aid and we all know that means more money going to the pockets of politicians and politicians family and friends

Or, I’ll once again say, if the dems really wanted to secure the border Biden could do it with the strike of a pen….just like he did when he created this fiasco on his first day in office with NOBODIES approval.

Just like stated above, this bill was about lining their pockets with foreign aid money.

 

[bullskin]

Or, I’ll once again say, if the dems really wanted to secure the border Biden could do it with the strike of a pen….just like he did when he created this fiasco on his first day in office with NOBODIES approval.

Just like stated above, this bill was about lining their pockets with foreign aid money.

The bill obviously includes foreign aid--at the insistence of Republicans who tied the two together.

There is no question that Biden could do better. He has failed dismally. But the proposed legislation would allow any president to do even better. It provides much better protection, including more fence, more agents, faster processing, higher bar for asylum, immediate deportation, etc. The very things that conservatives have been asking for, forever. And it is worth remembering that we have asked for these because they were not available because the Dems would not allow them. But now they will, and we should grab them while we can. A lot has changed since Trump was president. During his administration, rules were enacted as a result of Covid that enabled us to eject illegals without review, but these have since been overturned by the courts as the threat of Covid subsides. No President, even one who wanted to, would have the free rein that Trump enjoyed in ejecting illegals without those special circumstances. The US needs better legislation as well as better administration when it comes to border security.

 

[bullskin]

You guys are blaming the quoted "border security bill" being shot down because of Trump.
First off it was not border security, you could have called it "immigrating reform", or you could have called "Ukraine war relief" but to call this bill "border security" no.
The supposed "border security" was dead before Trump made it a issue Speaker Johnson stated "the border security bill will never see light of day on the house as long as the other items are tied to it" a week before Trump spoke about this bill.
Most of the Senators that was against this bill had stated multiple times through the last month they was not going to vote for it, they stated "too much junk tied to it"
If this was such a great bipartisan border security bill then why did every Republican Senator that supported it have to plug their nose to vote for it but the Democrat Senators was celebrating the passing of the bill.
Why did the Democrats of the Senate all get a working copy of the bill weeks before the Republican Senators got the final draft and then told you need to accept this bill.
Even Senator McConnell made sure everyone new it was Senator Lankford that had drawing up this bill with Senator Schumer.
This bill was 100% about Ukraine Aid and we all know that means more money going to the pockets of politicians and politicians family and friends

By the time the vote came around, most Republicans had received their marching orders. Many of those who eventually voted against the bill once spoke highly of it and only changed their tune once it became clear that Trump would extract a penalty for their support, and this included McConnell. Rather than judge the proposal by the words of frightened politicians, why not read it and speak directly about its provisions? Who among us needs a politician to interpret the English language?

 

[Flyjunky12]

The bill obviously includes foreign aid--at the insistence of Republicans who tied the two together.

There is no question that Biden could do better. He has failed dismally. But the proposed legislation would allow any president to do even better. It provides much better protection, including more fence, more agents, faster processing, higher bar for asylum, immediate deportation, etc. The very things that conservatives have been asking for, forever. And it is worth remembering that we have asked for these because they were not available because the Dems would not allow them. But now they will, and we should grab them while we can. A lot has changed since Trump was president. During his administration, rules were enacted as a result of Covid that enabled us to eject illegals without review, but these have since been overturned by the courts as the threat of Covid subsides. No President, even one who wanted to, would have the free rein that Trump enjoyed in ejecting illegals without those special circumstances. The US needs better legislation as well as better administration when it comes to border security.

Very simple, standalone bill with no aid attached, and get rid of the 5000/day illegal amount.

 

[bullskin]

Very simple, standalone bill with no aid attached, and get rid of the 5000/day illegal amount.

There will always be someone requesting entry to the U.S. Some want to work, others want to become citizens, other just want to sell fentanyl. At best, our ability to process these applicants is 5000 per day, and this is possible only with the additional employees and facilities funded through this legislation. We process them whether they come through a port of entry or enter illegally as it is, and we have no legal means of ejecting them from the country without providing them a hearing, either way. This proposal would change that. Once 5000 have arrived, either through port of entry or illegally, those at ports of entry or caught entering illegally will be turned away. Automatically and immediately. No hearing for you. As a result we will have fewer people entering, not more. And the 5000 admitted on any given day do not automatically receive citizenship--they simply constitute the group that will be considered for admission, and the best thing about this proposal is that it raises the bar when it comes to granting asylum. Again, fewer people, not more.

Closing the border at "zero" means that we would not permit anyone in for consideration. Ports of entry would be closed entirely and absolutely no one would ever immigrate legally into the US again. I do not believe that is the intent of most Americans, although we are famously hypocritical so perhaps I am wrong on the count. Of course, this would do nothing to decrease the number of illegal entries, and we would be without the power that this legislation provides to send them packing immediately. We would continue to face a huge backlog of applicants and costs associated with keeping them here in the US rather than sending them home.

As for aid to other countries, that is a separate issue and it was only politics that tied it to the question of border security.

 

[notdonhunting]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754919166690160655

His good buddy Mayorkas along his side

 

[Flyjunky12]

There will always be someone requesting entry to the U.S. Some want to work, others want to become citizens, other just want to sell fentanyl. At best, our ability to process these applicants is 5000 per day, and this is possible only with the additional employees and facilities funded through this legislation. We process them whether they come through a port of entry or enter illegally as it is, and we have no legal means of ejecting them from the country without providing them a hearing, either way. This proposal would change that. Once 5000 have arrived, either through port of entry or illegally, those at ports of entry or caught entering illegally will be turned away. Automatically and immediately. No hearing for you. As a result we will have fewer people entering, not more. And the 5000 admitted on any given day do not automatically receive citizenship--they simply constitute the group that will be considered for admission, and the best thing about this proposal is that it raises the bar when it comes to granting asylum. Again, fewer people, not more.

Closing the border at "zero" means that we would not permit anyone in for consideration. Ports of entry would be closed entirely and absolutely no one would ever immigrate legally into the US again. I do not believe that is the intent of most Americans, although we are famously hypocritical so perhaps I am wrong on the count. Of course, this would do nothing to decrease the number of illegal entries, and we would be without the power that this legislation provides to send them packing immediately. We would continue to face a huge backlog of applicants and costs associated with keeping them here in the US rather than sending them home.

As for aid to other countries, that is a separate issue and it was only politics that tied it to the question of border security.

It's not about people coming here, I wish people would quit saying that. It's about people coming here illegally, encouraged to come here illegally, that pisses me and many others off. If people want to come here there is a process that they need to go through, a legal process. When people go through the legal process they are much more likely to treat this country like a home and respect it. When you give people money, shelter, phones, healthcare, schooling, etc it tends to piss people off in this country who aren't getting those same needs met. It seems these illegals are being treated better than our own citizens and when you watch interviews with everyday Americans they feel the same way. Personally, I'd like to see the border shut down for everyone for the next 4 years until we can get a handle on how to deal with all those that have come here in the past 3 years. We need to figure out how to pay for all of this.....although the plan is for you and I to pay for it all, and personally I'm not happy about that. Matter of fact if you listen to interviews of investigative journalists who have followed these caravans of people from start to finish in their journey you'll see all these NGO's who have set up shop along the entire way. Where do you think the money is coming from to make that happen, yes, you and I. How do these people look to be in such good shape after traveling for all those 1000's of miles. One small bag for the trip? All carrying cell phones...how are they charging them? Food, shelter? Do you all think this is happening without help from our govt? This country has enough problems right now and adding 11-20million more people is going to break us.

Look at all these sanctuary cities crying because they can't handle what is happening with all the illegals. Well, when this is what they were preaching for, it's time for them to take care of it on their own. Too bad, not so sad. They got exactly what they were asking for and now they are upset. Typical, all ideas but no plan to back it up.

The cost, the threat to our nation (I 100% guarantee we will be attacked by a group that has snuck through), our way of life, all of it is under attack but, like Biden's video posted above, that is just all part of the plan. It's time we start listening when people like Biden say what he did. It's not hyperbole....that has been the plan all along. It's no different than what Putin said a few years ago. If Ukraine is pushed towards NATO, it's not something he will stand for and look what happened. Look at what the idiots at the WEF are saying. Do you think they are just making this stuff up and have no desire to fulfill those words? People need to wake the f'up.

It's high time people start pulling their heads out of their ass and truly listen....this goes for both sides of the isle. This isn't about D vs R, it's about us vs them.

Sorry for the ramble but our whole country is being bent over without dinner or lube first.

 

[bullskin]

It's not about people coming here, I wish people would quit saying that. It's about people coming here illegally, encouraged to come here illegally, that pisses me and many others off. If people want to come here there is a process that they need to go through, a legal process. When people go through the legal process they are much more likely to treat this country like a home and respect it. When you give people money, shelter, phones, healthcare, schooling, etc it tends to piss people off in this country who aren't getting those same needs met. It seems these illegals are being treated better than our own citizens and when you watch interviews with everyday Americans they feel the same way. Personally, I'd like to see the border shut down for everyone for the next 4 years until we can get a handle on how to deal with all those that have come here in the past 3 years. We need to figure out how to pay for all of this.....although the plan is for you and I to pay for it all, and personally I'm not happy about that. Matter of fact if you listen to interviews of investigative journalists who have followed these caravans of people from start to finish in their journey you'll see all these NGO's who have set up shop along the entire way. Where do you think the money is coming from to make that happen, yes, you and I. How do these people look to be in such good shape after traveling for all those 1000's of miles. One small bag for the trip? All carrying cell phones...how are they charging them? Food, shelter? Do you all think this is happening without help from our govt? This country has enough problems right now and adding 11-20million more people is going to break us.

Look at all these sanctuary cities crying because they can't handle what is happening with all the illegals. Well, when this is what they were preaching for, it's time for them to take care of it on their own. Too bad, not so sad. They got exactly what they were asking for and now they are upset. Typical, all ideas but no plan to back it up.

The cost, the threat to our nation (I 100% guarantee we will be attacked by a group that has snuck through), our way of life, all of it is under attack but, like Biden's video posted above, that is just all part of the plan. It's time we start listening when people like Biden say what he did. It's not hyperbole....that has been the plan all along. It's no different than what Putin said a few years ago. If Ukraine is pushed towards NATO, it's not something he will stand for and look what happened. Look at what the idiots at the WEF are saying. Do you think they are just making this stuff up and have no desire to fulfill those words? People need to wake the f'up.

It's high time people start pulling their heads out of their ass and truly listen....this goes for both sides of the isle. This isn't about D vs R, it's about us vs them.

Sorry for the ramble but our whole country is being bent over without dinner or lube first.

I share the frustration. It has long been recognizerd that Dems were weak when it comes to border controls and that their failures cost the rest of us security as well as money. And Republicans have not proven much better, despite their rhetoric. They controlled the House, Senate and White House for two years and never passed significant border reforms. A compromise effort such as that recently reached in the Senate would have been proudly held up as a huge success had it happened under any other conditions. And so I suspect that many Americans who might otherwise have believed that R's would have proven stronger on the question of the border now realize that they have squandered their only opportunity to nail that success to the board--and all because Donald Trump feared he would be deprived of a valid talking point. And, of course, he has been, because his opponents will remind us of this failure for the next nine months. This will hurt Republicans down the ballot, nationwide, because voters understand that these Congressmen have placed Trump's legal escape hatch before the very risk to the nation that you have explained, and all because they have been afraid to stand up to him. In the end, Americans understand that Trump is not guilty of everything that he has been accused. On the other hand, they also realize that he is not entirely innocent, either. Yet most R's are unwilling to hold him accountable for anything, and this is unacceptable to most people. And when he actively works against men like Lankford who do stand with integrity he turns even more Republicans into RINOs. In the end, it is MAGA that deserves that label.